Healing from Infidelity in a Poly Relationship (very long)

[Emmy]

This is pretty long, but there's a lot of backstory. Read the bold for the cliff notes version.

Four weeks ago I (mid-30's) found a text on my husband's (mid-40's) phone while using it to locate mine. It caught my eye because it was from my best friend... and sexually explicit.

That was the only text from her, which was obviously a continuation of a related but probably-deleted discussion.

We don't lock our phones or delete texts.

We have few rules in our poly dynamic, but the biggest one is transparency. We notify one another if we start communicating with someone else that we think we might want to pursue, we notify one another when we notice that the attraction is mutual, when it gets physical and answer each other's questions after that. We also agree to use protection with others 100% of the time and ensure that we check in with one another before we make plans with those outside of our relationship. We've never had an incident until this.

My husband of six years (together and poly since the day we met, ten years ago) said the text was nothing - that she was just being playful and it was an "inside joke". She's "just a friend", that they rarely talk. I texted her and her response was that it was none of my "f*cking business" along with other choice phrases that were, frankly, disproportionate to my request that she refrain from sexually-explicit texts without my consent. That didn't sound like an inside joke to me, so I pressed him further.

He then admitted to texting and talking to her on the phone for the past six months. Often sexual in nature, but harmless and playful. After his admission, I asked that he terminate contact - because I didn't like what was going on behind my back. I insisted that he call her and put it on speakerphone so it was transparent. She screamed at him to take her off speakerphone - which, he did. He then took the call to the backyard. He came back telling me it was done.

I asked him if he had sex with her. He looked me in the eyes and told me he didn't. I asked again, and he repeated it slowly and deliberately. Reluctantly, I believed him. We had a long discussion about my expectations in a poly marriage and he agreed that his conversations probably didn't fit in our long-standing agreement. At this point in time, her crazy abusive texts were enough for me to veto future contact. No contact without me present and he promised he wouldn't.

He left town for work the next day and that night I got a nagging bad feeling, so I checked his phone records. He spent 3.5 hours on the phone with her on three different occasions that day. This, after telling me over the phone that he blocked her and hadn't heard from her.

That was devastating. Because I knew then there was more than he was saying.

But he stuck to his story. And her crazy increased. Her main point of contention is that he terminated his 'friendship' with her when, according to her, he should have told me to deal with it. He showed me her texts - she was shocked that he would choose me over her. I couldn't understand why she thought her standing with my husband was higher than mine - especially for an unconsummated, emotional affair.

It went around and around between my husband and I, who insisted nothing else was going on.

Two weeks later, I got an email, from my best friend. It went into a lot of detail, but the gist of it was - she and my husband had been having a sexual affair for three years - and had slept together over 50 times. Many times in my house, while I was out, asleep or with my other partner... or he'd delay coming home a day or leave early (he works out of town a lot). She told me of times when I video-chatted with him with our kids - and exact phrases I used.. while she was was naked in his bed. She told me of times that he'd been out with friends, he was actually with her. My best friend was as graphic and vitriolic as possible - even asking me "how did [she] taste?" and blamed me for the affair. She also mentioned that after their 3.5h phone calls, she drove to and was with him. She says they had one last tryst. I was shocked, I felt like I didn't even know her. Or him.

My husband was home when I got the email and asked me what it said. I told him that I was pretty sure he knew what it said and asked him whether it was true. He said it was. I asked my husband if he used protection. He held my face in his hands and swore to me that he had. But, I knew he didn't, because my best friend included a video in her charming email. His story then changed to that she'd given him a printout of recent STD testing and they proceeded to not use protection from then on.

I'm fluid-bonded with my husband and my boyfriend, who lives with us. At that point, I was pretty much livid. I got tested right away and, gratefully, nothing. But still. Who does that?

My boyfriend, who loves my husband too, is as shocked as I am. He's elected to stay out of this, encourages me to try to work things out and has been very supportive.

I don't understand why they hid it from me. I don't understand how or why they both would lie to me, or risk my and my boyfriend's health. I also don't understand why it hurts so much. I'm poly right? Why should I care?

He says that the first time it happened he figured it would never happen again so there was no reason to confront the issue. Then, it just got out of hand and went on and on.

My husband says he was hurt because I found love with another and didn't want to tell me how he felt - which was unwanted and lonely. My best friend honed in on that and gave my husband the adoration and excitement that I didn't.. and she needed him, for emotional support. Their relationship had a D/s element, something I had no idea my husband was even remotely interested in.

He says that he wants to save our marriage and I am trying to get over this. His fidelity and honesty are what I loved about him and why I married him, so it feels like our marriage was built on a lie - that the foundation has crumbled.

The betrayal is double because two people that I loved were lying to me for so long. In a way, her betrayal hurts the most - because I see how that a lot of her inquiries about my marriage were used for her benefit. She'd told me about someone she was in love with and how awesome it was going but didn't seem to want to give details so I didn't ask - not in my nature. She showed me a pretty chainmail collar around her neck about a year ago, which I admired and complimented her on even if, I joked, I couldn't understand why anyone would wear anything like that in public. She said in her email that he bought for her. What she did feels sneaky and mean. I have a hard time with just the fact that he allowed me to be hurt by her in that way.

I would never, ever do something like this to someone - even if I hated them. I would personally feel awful, too awful to keep that kind of a secret. She smiled and laughed whenever she was around me - like nothing was wrong. They both did. And him, he only told me the truth when he thought I already knew it, so I have a lot of difficulty with something I have never had difficulty with before - trust. Even now, I wonder what else I don't know.

I never worried because my husband and I were best friends and always frank with one another. We talked, we communicated and we even had sex regularly. We, I thought, knew everything about one another. I thought I knew all the signs of infidelity and I was wrong - for three years.

Some days I feel okay, and hopeful... and others I feel sad, distrustful - even angry. I don't like the kind of person I am on those days... wondering about things I have never wondered about - like whether I'm still desirable after having our kids. I wonder whether I'm actually a horrible person or maybe it really is my fault. I wonder if I did something to deserve this. I used to feel confident that my marriage and my place in my husband's life was ironclad and that everyone who came into our lives knew that. I used to feel beautiful and happy - and now I don't.

He says he feels like a weight has been lifted, that he was wanting to terminate the relationship with her but was afraid that she'd spill the beans out of spite. He says that she'd become increasingly dependent, jealous and spiteful over the past several months. He insists that I am the most important person in his life, that he made a terrible mistake and that it will never happen again. While he's doing alright... I'm really struggling with this. I feel like the rug has been pulled out from under me. I question everything he says and does at the moment.

I still love him, but I'm very hurt. He's the father of my children and I want to repair this if at all possible.

He says that we'll get through it, but how? Am I nuts for even entertaining this?

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

What HE did has nothing to do with ethical polyamory. You did NOT deserve this.

No, you are not nuts for trying to determine if your marriage is worth saving, but it's going to be hard. Your husband is going to have to do a LOT of work. Your "friend" is everything but.

One thing I would INSIST in is that there is no further contact with your former friend. At all. Her behavior towards you was extremely malicious and hurtful, wrapped in a pretty bow of how you deserved it because you weren't treating your husband well. That your husband was complicit in her campaign of hatred towards you is the most disturbing part of this story. How she bragged about him videochatting with you while she was in bed with him? No, he should not have done it, it was egregious behavior; that she gleefully related this story to you? Absolutely vile.

If he does maintain contact with her? I would be done. If he chooses to have another partner, that is a completely separate issue. I would feel extremely betrayed if my husband chose to continue a relationship with a person who basically set out to destroy me emotionally.

 

[beeswing]

Emmy,
This sounds like a harrowing ordeal. I'm sorry you've had to go through this.

I agree with powerpuffgrl that your husband has a lot of work to do and that this will be difficult. You both should break all ties with your "best friend."

I understand that you want to repair things with your husband, especially since you have children together, and I hope you can. My biggest concern is his pattern of lying in response to your questions unless he knew you already knew the truth.

Have you considered finding a poly-friendly couples therapist to work with?

 

[GalaGirl]

I am so sorry.

You are NOT a horrible person. You do NOT deserve this behavior.

I don't understand why they hid it from me. I don't understand how or why they both would lie to me, or risk my and my boyfriend's health. I also don't understand why it hurts so much. I'm poly right? Why should I care?

Polyamory as a model is not automatically "cheater proof." Of course you care and feel upset. Because your polyamorous relationship has agreements and they were not upheld. Just as it is possible to cheat on monogamous agreements? One could cheat on their polyamorous agreements.

I don't know if this helps any.

http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/

You are probably going to feel a lot of different things like emotional roller coaster. This has been a long term cheating affair by two people who supposedly care about you. Pretty big betrayal.

It is ok to assess whether or not you want to try to repair after this or just let it all go. Perhaps a counselor could help you sort out what it is you want to ultimately do while supporting you through the up and down feelings?

Galagirl

 

[Emmy]

Anlieger abierto

I think the self-blame sets in when I try to understand things from my former friend's perspective. She was in love with him and it seems a lot of her angst with him in the last several months is that he would not tell her that he loved her too. She expressed as much in her journals, without names, while I and her other friends tried to help her through her pain. We told her that he was probably married and that she needed to respect herself and move on.

Reading her writings from a new perspective hasn't made things all that better.

Since my initial reaction towards her - asking her to stop the sexually explicit texts - was based on incomplete information, I wonder if it really was, as she said, none of my business and whether I have the right to insist on zero contact at all. He says that she repeatedly insisted that he tell me about the relationship, but that he told her again and again that it wasn't the right time - too cowardly to say that he didn't want to be open about it because what he really wanted was to break it off.

He also says he was afraid that I would leave him if I knew how long it'd really gone on. The truth is, I probably would have consented even if I knew they'd had sex once - or a few times. But three years? I'm afraid that even if my husband and she aren't speaking at the moment that somewhere down the road, they will. It bothers me that I would be against the relationship - even if he said that it made him happy. I don't like to put restrictions on the people that I love.

I'm trying to arm myself against the possibility that he will ask me to consent to them trying this again. I am not sure I can forgive her and I'm afraid that if he tries that... I'll be done. He quite literally abandoned extra time with me and the kids, to go be with her. It's hard for me to believe that he felt nothing for her.

He says that she's tried calling from other phones and convincing him that they can continue without my knowledge. She even sent him a link to a communications app that would circumvent my scrutiny. No matter how much he insists he's not talking to her, it's difficult to believe him. I have not checked his phone or phone records for some time because it hurts me to be like that more than I have a desire to know who he's talking to. I don't know if that makes sense. I miss the certainty I used to have.

I don't know if I believe my husband when he says that he's appalled by her behavior. He says it's over, he has no desire to speak to her again, ever. But three years is a long time. Some part of me feels guilty that she was unceremoniously dumped, and another part of me that I don't particularly like feels validated. Sometimes I feel badly for her - as it seems he led her on in a way. Then I remember her sick phrases designed to inflict as much damage as possible. She wanted me to leave him, for him to hurt as much as she did. The roller coaster analogy is very accurate. I often feel wretched that my husband didn't feel comfortable enough to tell me that he felt left out when I began dating my boyfriend.

I mourn the loss of my friend and I wonder at times whether she really did hate me as much as it seemed she did. I would have happily consented to my husband and her exploring a relationship because I love them both and even more so if they could make each other happy... but I expect that my husband's partners respect my marriage and our mutual roles in one another's conjoined lives. She did not - and her behavior and role in this treachery are not something I can wrap my head around.

Another thing that bothers me is that I can't stand for him to touch me right now. I allow it, but sex with him makes my skin crawl. I have told him as much as gently as I possibly can, which is another reason I am worried that he will reach out to her. If I unwittingly made him feel unwanted and lonely by dating my boyfriend - this certainly qualifies. This is further compounded by the fact that sex with my boyfriend has become much better - more passionate and fulfilling. It's something I need right now and it distracts me from the pain I feel. That is not something I have disclosed to my husband because I don't want to hurt him or drive him away.

I appreciate the support, and I am talking to a therapist. She's not poly-unfriendly but she - like my mother and many of my friends - seems to think that my husband and I can repair our marriage with full disclosure, though each new piece of information hurts as much as the first admission of betrayal. She believes that I idolized my husband, who is human and made a mistake. I want to be secure, but I'm not sure how much more I want to know. I just wonder at times if I will ever trust him again and out of what we will build our new foundation.

 

[Emmy]

I am so sorry.

I don't know if this helps any.

http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/

You are probably going to feel a lot of different things like emotional roller coaster. This has been a long term cheating affair by two people who supposedly care about you. Pretty big betrayal.

Galagirl

It does help. I wish he'd come to me instead of letting me hear it from her. I can imagine things going differently had he come to me with the entire truth. I would have been hurt still but I think my trust in him wouldn't have taken nearly as much of a hit.

I particularly appreciate that the article mentions her culpability and responsibility in this fiasco. She is telling mutual friends that this is my fault (for not giving my husband what he wants or knowing he was hurting) and my husband's fault (for breaking her heart and leading her on). That she takes no responsibility is unbelievable to me. I wonder at times if that has to do with her age (mid-20's) but even at that age, I would never do something like that. She literally fostered resentment by telling him that I was mistreating him.

I don't think I can consent to them being together, ever.

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

looking back at my life (I'm now 47), I see where I basically treated other women as competition when I was in my teens and twenties; not really seeing them as people. Back then, the old saying "everything's fair in love in war," really WAS par for the course. I had affairs with married men, rationalizing to myself that their wives "deserved" it for not taking care of their spouses. Of course, Karma bit me in the ass eventually.

I just shake my head when I read or hear about younger women who state that don't have many female friends; they get along better with men. There are any number of reasons for the lack of female solidarity at that age, I suppose. I do find it sad. Hopefully, this former friend of yours, in a decade or two, will look back on her behavior and feel shame.

Truly, I feel for you. Be kind to yourself.

 

[vinsanity0]

Full disclosure: I would find your rules, veto power, etc, totally unacceptable for me. My comments will likely reflect that.

Having rules like that is a guaranteed setup for failure, IMO. I'm curious as to why he felt he needed to hide that relationship. Would you have vetoed it from the start?

That doesn't mean I'm placing all the blame directly on you. Bringing someone into a relationship that could come crashing down at any time is solely on him. While I would never agree to rules like that, he did. That makes the lying on him as well.

Whether or not you two can repair depends a lot on you. Can you forgive him and move on? If you see yourself harboring a grudge, then I would say don't bother. Can he go back to following the rules? Can you guys maybe renegotiate the rules? Do you feel you need to keep a tight leash on him? It's interesting that you have a husband and bf at home and have all these rules in place for your husband. Ask yourself why that is.

The two of you need to communicate about why he did what he did. Hopefully he can start being honest about that.

 

[Emmy]

Hopefully, this former friend of yours, in a decade or two, will look back on her behavior and feel shame.

Truly, I feel for you. Be kind to yourself.

Thank you, and I appreciate your candid reflections on earlier rationalizations. Her behaviors would make more sense if she viewed me as competition even if I cannot fathom why she would. Actually, your post made me wonder if she was envious of my husband's apparent devotion to me, perceived as undeserved, and saw a resource she could mine for her own emotional deficiencies. It would make a lot of sense.

And gee, I sure hope she learns to treat people better, for her own sake.

It looks like my other post is still waiting for a moderator to approve.

 

[lunabunny]

I hate to be so blunt, but these people are not your friends, nor do they love you. (EDIT: I had not read your newest post on the next page before writing this response. So I'm sorry if I jumped the gun by saying the aforementioned. I'll amend it to... this is not how people who really love someone will act.)

Your "best friend" appeared to show no remorse for her actions, once confronted. On the contrary, she practically revelled in your misery; taking great delight in presenting you with every gory detail of their affair.

It would be one thing is she was ashamed, embarrassed and contrite about the role she played in creating difficulties between you and your husband, but it seems she actually *used* your various confidences to further her agenda to "seduce" your husband, using whatever perceived weakness in your relationship - or unexplored sexual interest/fetish - she could exploit.

This premeditated deviousness AND her behaviour after the jig was up, are not indicative of friendship, let alone "best" friendship. Indeed, these are the manipulative tactics of a brazen opportunist and/or a slightly unhinged sociopath. If it were me, I couldn't lose her fast enough.

I put "seduce" in inverted commas, because as you must be aware, everybody involved is an adult and therefore responsible for their own actions. No seduction could have taken place without your husband's willing involvement, unless your "friend" had assaulted him while he was under the influence or was otherwise not in possession of all his faculties at the time.

You say you're more disappointed in, or blame your friend *more* than you do your husband for the betrayal. You will feel however you feel, of course, but I am going to suggest that the mere fact that you are MARRIED to this man, have made a lifetime commitment to EACH OTHER and have to LIVE in the same house with him, are all reason enough to consider his part in the affair the greater breach.

So... let's say he had a weak moment and shared sex with your "friend" - without your knowledge or consent (breaking a standing agreement to disclose such intentions) that first time. Why, considering the rather flexible nature of your marriage, did he not feel able to confess the truth soon after the fact, and tell you this person was someone he was interested in pursuing? Was she on some kind of "off limits" or "messy persons" list? Had he agreed NOT to date her in the past, and was knowingly and willingly going against your wishes? For some reason did he feel he couldn't, or did not want to admit he had an interest in exploring BDSM or a D/s dynamic? Was/is he ashamed of this interest? Does/did he feel it was more of a "thrill" to explore it surreptitiously? (Yet another problem, if this is the case.)

Not to mention, he outright lied to your face while looking you in the eyes and holding your face in his hands AFTER being caught out and confronted, on more than one occasion. Quite frankly, I am not sure if I could look past this extremely troubling behaviour. His abject refusal to admit the truth of his deception even when you clearly suspected/knew and were begging him to be honest with you defies any excuse or mode of reasoning he can muster, in my opinion.

THAT is where broken trust was compounded in a way I would have immense difficulty getting past, even with counselling. Because now you know the lengths your husband will go to in order to hide unpalatable aspects of his behaviour - in addition to his willingness to repeatedly break fairly reasonable relationship agreements/rules AND his bad judgement regarding partner choice - you would be forgiven for doubting this is a relationship worth fighting to save.

That said, only YOU can decide if there is anything salvageable from the wreakage of this relationship. Having been where you are, in somewhat milder form in a past relationship, I can empathise with the emotional agony you must be experiencing right now. Honestly? I doubt you will be able to get past this without either individual counselling AND couples counselling. Additionally, you will both need to put a lot of space between yourselves and the former "best friend", probably for good.

Meanwhile, try to make sure you don't neglect or take out your lack of trust and hurt feelings on your boyfriend, who from what you said, is being supportive, albeit at a distance. Also, realise you did nothing wrong here. Don't doubt or second guess yourself, or wonder if you'd only done this or that (shown an interest in kink, for example, or been more sexually available, exciting, etc), your husband wouldn't have been tempted to cheat. Only he really knows WHY he cheated AND why he felt he needed to lie even after the fact. A good counsellor/therapist MAY be able to draw him out, but ultimately this is his work to do. Yours is to begin to heal and rebuild trust between you, IF you wish to continue on in the marriage. Unfortunately, there is no way to force someone else to behave ethically. If you feel staying in this relationship will ultimately erode your own self respect, then you might want to consider a trial separation or divorce.

 

[Emmy]

Full disclosure: I would find your rules, veto power, etc, totally unacceptable for me. My comments will likely reflect that.

Having rules like that is a guaranteed setup for failure, IMO. I'm curious as to why he felt he needed to hide that relationship. Would you have vetoed it from the start?

That doesn't mean I'm placing all the blame directly on you. Bringing someone into a relationship that could come crashing down at any time is solely on him. While I would never agree to rules like that, he did. That makes the lying on him as well.

Whether or not you two can repair depends a lot on you. Can you forgive him and move on? If you see yourself harboring a grudge, then I would say don't bother. Can he go back to following the rules? Can you guys maybe renegotiate the rules? Do you feel you need to keep a tight leash on him? It's interesting that you have a husband and bf at home and have all these rules in place for your husband. Ask yourself why that is.

The two of you need to communicate about why he did what he did. Hopefully he can start being honest about that.

Good questions.

As far as why he felt he needed to hide this, we're still working that out.

But, there are possibilities.

First of all, my husband was mono when we met and has had only had casual encounters as far as I was aware (most of which I initated on his behalf). He is actually sexually active with me and my boyfriend and as far as I knew, we had developed into - more or less - a triad because we were all too busy to branch out lately.

My husband harbored fantasies of being dominant in a relationship with a submissive woman. I'm not really suitable for that sort of thing and he thought I'd feel negative about that. I agree that we had communication issues that contributed to the misunderstanding. I reject that those are on me. We're both responsible for communicating our needs to the other.

Since he works out of town most of the year, I didn't think he had time for other relationships at all. I was actually surprised at how he managed to pull this off without me realizing it. I'm also surprised that he was interested in someone he told me on two occasions that he wasn't interested in. I explored that thought process with both of them - even giving them my blessing. I tried to hook him up with other friends of mine and he told me he was only interested in me for the time being. Maybe I suspected something, I'm pretty well known for helping people get it on already. But they denied interest, even though they were already together.

The affair with my friend started soon after I gave birth to our youngest child. It was a very tough pregnancy/labor and the baby was born sick and premature. (She's fine now). I was preoccupied. I don't know if that was related, but it's worth mentioning.

The first time my husband had sex with her, they chalked it up to a one-time thing and agreed not to tell me about it. It didn't happen again for months. They thought I wouldn't be okay with it, I'm pretty sure I would have been happy for them, even relieved. I believe that he bought her kool-aid about being mistreated because my sexual energy with my boyfriend is somewhat higher than it is with him. My boyfriend actively pursues me, my husband does not. I always felt like that was a personality thing and loved him no less for that, because we have a history and level of intimacy that my boyfriend and I do not. He may have also fostered resentment that I was spending more time with my boyfriend since he was working out of state so much. He has told me that my best friend nurtured his small doubts into huge ones.

Our rules have more or less been for his benefit since I have been historically more active than he, except in the last three to four years of our relationship. I don't mind the rules and if he were to express issues with them they're up for negotiation. We don't have veto power over one another's partners, but I absolutely will not have her in my life in any capacity after what she has done - directly or indirectly. As such, her absence is a condition that I believe to be based on special circumstances. I will not tolerate blatant disrespect and vitirol from a meta that I have treated with nothing but kindness.

We're married and "walking away" would involve much more than simply a wave of the hand. We have extensive community property and children who would be devastated. Whether or not I believe I can refrain from holding a grudge isn't worth walking away from a ten-year relationship without at least trying. Believe me, he would be a lot worse off than I would in the event of a split.

I disagree with your assessment that my rules are unreasonable. I expect to be kept in the loop at the beginning and not ever surprised with the need to get STD testing. If mutually-agreed upon, we both have a responsibility to tell one another if we feel unloved before we cheat on one another... and even then, it's not really an excuse. Telling one another about what and who we're up to has been second nature until this incident.

I have chalked much of his behavior to emotional immaturity. He dislikes confrontation, which is why he kept me in the dark and her believing something that was never going to happen.

My agreements with my boyfriend were not disclosed, you assume that they're less restrictive. He has dated with my blessing on multiple occasions. He's also entered our dynamic with the full understanding that my husband is special to me given our marriage and our common interests. I have asked my husband multiple times in the past month to tell me how he feels about my other relationship - and he repeats over and over again that his issues, in the beginning, have completely been resolved over the past year. However, he was already in over his head with my best friend despite being very happy about the state of our marriage.

Thanks for the thought-provoking questions.

 

[lunabunny]

Full disclosure: I would find your rules, veto power, etc, totally unacceptable for me. My comments will likely reflect that.

Having rules like that is a guaranteed setup for failure, IMO. I'm curious as to why he felt he needed to hide that relationship. Would you have vetoed it from the start?

Can you guys maybe renegotiate the rules? Do you feel you need to keep a tight leash on him? It's interesting that you have a husband and bf at home and have all these rules in place for your husband. Ask yourself why that is.

I didn't read their relationship rules as unreasonable.

It is interesting to me that you assume Emmy presented her husband with a list of stringent rules - insinuating she is hypocritical because SHE has a boyfriend at home as well - rather than assuming the list might've been mutually developed between both of them and work both ways. (i.e. Nowhere did I see Emmy state her boyfriend is the ONLY other outside relationship either of them have ever been involved with. I am guessing both have engaged in more casual sexual relationships, which they make each other aware of as they crop up.)

 

[vinsanity0]

To the both of you, I didn't assume anything about the bf. He simply didn't enter into the equation because the problem is with the husband, not the boyfriend. I wasn't insinuating that she was hypocritical, I was wondering if she might be controlling. Her answers to me indicate she probably isn't.

I viewed the rules as strict because my wife and I were autonomous. There was no need to check in every step of the way. Our agreement was we were going to have relationships outside of our own. There was no need to hide anything. Our only real agreement was that we would maintain our home together. That came after initially having a bunch of crazy rules.

It's a shame your husband didn't feel he could communicate with you. It does sound like you didn't give him any reason not to. I think his being previously mono had a lot to do with it. It can be hard to get past that. I hope the two of you can get him past that.

 

[Emmy]

Your "best friend" appeared to show no remorse for her actions, once confronted. On the contrary, she practically revelled in your misery; taking great delight in presenting you with every gory detail of their affair.This premeditated deviousness AND her behaviour after the jig was up, are not indicative of friendship, let alone "best" friendship. Indeed, these are the manipulative tactics of a brazen opportunist and/or a slightly unhinged sociopath. If it were me, I couldn't lose her fast enough.

I haven't spoken to her in weeks and neither has my husband as far as I'm aware. I hope it stays that way because the more I think about it, the less I'm able to account for or excuse her behavior.

I put "seduce" in inverted commas, because as you must be aware, everybody involved is an adult and therefore responsible for their own actions. No seduction could have taken place without your husband's willing involvement, unless your "friend" had assaulted him while he was under the influence or was otherwise not in possession of all his faculties at the time.

I know what you mean. While I believe she exploited the situation to her benefit, I in no way absolve him of responsibility. But, he's remorseful and she's decidedly not.

So... let's say he had a weak moment and shared sex with your "friend" - without your knowledge or consent (breaking a standing agreement to disclose such intentions) that first time. Why, considering the rather flexible nature of your marriage, did he not feel able to confess the truth soon after the fact, and tell you this person was someone he was interested in pursuing? Was she on some kind of "off limits" or "messy persons" list? Had he agreed NOT to date her in the past, and was knowingly and willingly going against your wishes? For some reason did he feel he couldn't, or did not want to admit he had an interest in exploring BDSM or a D/s dynamic? Was/is he ashamed of this interest? Does/did he feel it was more of a "thrill" to explore it surreptitiously? (Yet another problem, if this is the case.)

We're still working that out, but I think it will take a counselor to fully explore his thinking in that regard. After the 3.5h phone call, I had pretty much guessed what was going on though I had no idea how long it had been going on. I mentioned divorce and he was absolutely insistant that we could work this out. In fact, he called his mother to ask her advice and in the process, had to come clean to her about what he'd done. The information has been slow and he's lied to my face on multiple occasions, but his remorse seems genuine.

The girl, as I mentioned in an earlier post, was not off-limits. I'd even given my unsolicited consent when I found they'd be at the same party at the same time. They both turned me down, citing their own reasons. I brought it up early on as well. I don't know why, but I felt like something could happen there. I had no idea it was happening without my knowledge or consent. I'm not upset about the sex, I'm upset about the lies.

Not to mention, he outright lied to your face while looking you in the eyes and holding your face in his hands AFTER being caught out and confronted, on more than one occasion. Quite frankly, I am not sure if I could look past this extremely troubling behaviour. His abject refusal to admit the truth of his deception even when you clearly suspected/knew and were begging him to be honest with you defies any excuse or mode of reasoning he can muster, in my opinion.

I agree and that's the part I'm having the most trouble with. Had he come clean from the start, I could have maybe understood that we had some fundamental communication issues. Instead, it came out in a messy and very public fashion... and not from him. I love him and want him to be happy and enjoy sexual relationships with others. I still do, despite everything. I don't understand exactly why it bothers me given I'd given consent at one time, but it does.

Actually, the flirtacious message made me want her to come sit down with both my husband and I and discuss what was going on. It didn't automatically trigger my veto. Her vitriol did that.[/QUOTE]

Meanwhile, try to make sure you don't neglect or take out your lack of trust and hurt feelings on your boyfriend, who from what you said, is being supportive, albeit at a distance. Also, realise you did nothing wrong here. Don't doubt or second guess yourself, or wonder if you'd only done this or that (shown an interest in kink, for example, or been more sexually available, exciting, etc), your husband wouldn't have been tempted to cheat. Only he really knows WHY he cheated AND why he felt he needed to lie even after the fact. A good counsellor/therapist MAY be able to draw him out, but ultimately this is his work to do. Yours is to begin to heal and rebuild trust between you, IF you wish to continue on in the marriage. Unfortunately, there is no way to force someone else to behave ethically. If you feel staying in this relationship will ultimately erode your own self respect, then you might want to consider a trial separation or divorce.

Thank you, I sincerely appreciate this. I will keep everything you have said in mind.

 

[GalaGirl]

I hope you feel bit better for airing out some.

You have agreements with your spouse about how you practice poly together. If those agreements don't work any more or start to pinch? It's on him to come to you to make you aware and renegotiate. That would have been the "clean" way to do it.

Neither one seems to be taking personal responsibility for their share of the situation making. He's all remose and regret like "oh, she made me, I was afraid she would...lalala." But that's not OWNING his part of it. "I regret I did this..." He's blame shifting.

She's busy making it be your fault rather than owning that she entered a cheating affair and continued it. If he was dicking her around promising to tell and never telling? She could have dumped him.

You guys are poly. They could have entered a relationship together cleanly without making a big mess. That they chose to approach it like mess?

That was not your doing.

Since my initial reaction towards her - asking her to stop the sexually explicit texts - was based on incomplete information, I wonder if it really was, as she said, none of my business and whether I have the right to insist on zero contact at all.

You have the right to ask him to stop cheating on your agreements and stop association with his cheating affair partner if he plans to continue with you in a new relationship.

The old relationship? It's over. You can set the conditions for you participating in a new thing with him. YOU pick what you are and are not up for.

He says that she repeatedly insisted that he tell me about the relationship, but that he told her again and again that it wasn't the right time - too cowardly to say that he didn't want to be open about it because what he really wanted was to break it off.

So he treated her poorly and led her on. That is not your doing or your responsibility. I don't even know why he's telling you all this... using you like emotional dumpster so he can unload and feel better. Rather than finding a therapist and talking to them.

It's like he keeps ON kicking you while you are down.

What are you supposed to do when he tells you he really wanted to break up but he couldn't? Comfort and reassure him because he's too weenie to get his life in order?

I don't know what's wrong with him, but it is not your job to fix it. He can talk to a therapist to help him get it together.

It bothers me that I would be against the relationship - even if he said that it made him happy. I don't like to put restrictions on the people that I love.

It is ok for your not to be up for doing anything with the cheating affair people. That is not you restricting him. That is you saying what YOU are up for and who YOU will and will not associate with.

He is free to choose her and keep it up.

Just as you are free to say "No. I am not going to build a new relationship with you if your cheating affair partner continues in your network."

You pick who you associate yourself with.

I'm trying to arm myself against the possibility that he will ask me to consent to them trying this again. I am not sure I can forgive her and I'm afraid that if he tries that... I'll be done. He quite literally abandoned extra time with me and the kids, to go be with her. It's hard for me to believe that he felt nothing for her.

You don't have to "arm" yourself. You just say "No, thank you. I am not up for that."

He says that she's tried calling from other phones and convincing him that they can continue without my knowledge. She even sent him a link to a communications app that would circumvent my scrutiny.

His mess. He can deal with her acting out. He is oversharing and using you for emotional dumpster. Tell him to stop telling you details. You are not his therapist. On top of everything else? You do NOT need this bonus work load.

No matter how much he insists he's not talking to her, it's difficult to believe him.

Of course it is. There's been a long string of lies.

I have not checked his phone or phone records for some time because it hurts me to be like that more than I have a desire to know who he's talking to. I don't know if that makes sense. I miss the certainty I used to have.

Of course you do. You can no longer feel certain about him keeping his Word.

You don't want to be checking to see if more lies are brewing. There's a point where you just don't want to know any more because you already hurt A LOT. Checking to see if there's more? It would not help you hurt less.

It's ok to protect yourself some right now and disengage from some of this crazy.

Some part of me feels guilty that she was unceremoniously dumped,

You didn't jerk her around. He did. He unceremoniously dumped her. Do not take responsibility for his poor behavior.

and another part of me that I don't particularly like feels validated.

Well, she was screwing you over pretending to be your friend while doing stuff behind your back. It is human nature to feel glad/validated when someone who screws people around gets screwed back.

You have been discombobulated. The "splash" just happened. It's like throwing a rock in a pond. A huge splash and then a lot ripples. You will feel a lot of emotional waves before things calm again. Feel whatever you feel in the moment and then let it go by. Do your self care in between the emotional waves. You are going to feel a LOT of things and there will be a lot of waves.

Sometimes I feel badly for her - as it seems he led her on in a way.

He did lead her on. It's not nice.

Then I remember her sick phrases designed to inflict as much damage as possible. She wanted me to leave him, for him to hurt as much as she did.

She did try to damage as much as possible. That is not nice either.

It is ok to be extremely disappointed with both these people and their behaviors.

I often feel wretched that my husband didn't feel comfortable enough to tell me that he felt left out when I began dating my boyfriend.

He wasn't emotionally honest. Whose job/responsibility is that? His. You are not a mind reader. You did not cause this cheating affair to happen.

I mourn the loss of my friend and I wonder at times whether she really did hate me as much as it seemed she did.

You will mourn a lot of things.

I would have happily consented to my husband and her exploring a relationship because I love them both and even more so if they could make each other happy... but I expect that my husband's partners respect my marriage and our mutual roles in one another's conjoined lives. She did not - and her behavior and role in this treachery are not something I can wrap my head around.

Reasonable expectation. People could be forthright and respectful.

Stop trying to look too deep. Why does blind guy not see? Cuz blind. Why did poor behaving husband/friend do poor behaviors? Because poor behaving.

Another thing that bothers me is that I can't stand for him to touch me right now. I allow it, but sex with him makes my skin crawl.

Stop allowing it. Anyone who cheats and expects their spouse to be all excited for sex? They are crazy.

If I unwittingly made him feel unwanted and lonely by dating my boyfriend - this certainly qualifies.

You are taking personal responsibility for stuff that is not your job. I think your therapist are family are right in that you idolized your husband and seeing him as he is more realistically is a shock.

You do not "make" people feel things. If you did, you could wave your magic wand and "make" all of you feel better right now.

He felt X. It was his responsibility to speak up and report and work something out. Not go have a cheating affair with your best friend for 3 years.

I appreciate the support, and I am talking to a therapist. She's not poly-unfriendly but she - like my mother and many of my friends - seems to think that my husband and I can repair our marriage with full disclosure, though each new piece of information hurts as much as the first admission of betrayal. She believes that I idolized my husband, who is human and made a mistake.

I disagree. Kissing the best friend, even sleeping with her once or twice? I could see that as "being human and making a mistake." But keeping deception going for 3 years? That's intentional behavior. That's is not an "oops" mistake like got carried away in the moment.

Full disclosure from him is not enough.

You also have to be willing and able to rebuild with him.

To me? The relationship as you know it is OVER. That's going to take a while to mourn and digest. Some pretty big dealbreaker agreements were broken. So the deal is off.

• You may decide to forgive him and try to build a NEW relationship with new agreements. But this isn't "continuing" the old relationship. It's starting a new thing. He is going to have to do some serious repair work to demonstrate he has now become trustworthy and does keep his Word. Because based on his track record? Not so hot.

• Or you may decide to forgive him, but no dice. Not interested in starting a new thing with him. You prefer letting it stay done.

You have a lot of thinking to do. And it is ok to do it.

It is also ok to NOT share sex with him, and NOT to take his feelings or her feelings like it is your responsibility to do/manage. Each one could deal with their own baggage.

Galagirl

 

[Emmy]

To the both of you, I didn't assume anything about the bf. He simply didn't enter into the equation because the problem is with the husband, not the boyfriend. I wasn't insinuating that she was hypocritical, I was wondering if she might be controlling. Her answers to me indicate she probably isn't.

It's fine, and I understand how you came to that idea. I worried about it myself after the affair started leaking out because of the insecurities and self-doubt that I still struggle with at times over this.

 

[Emmy]

I hope you feel bit better for airing out some.

I do, and thank you so much for each line in your reply. It's, I feel, exactly what I needed to hear.

And with that I think I'll take a break for a bit.

Thank you so much.

 

[dingedheart]

When and how in this time line did you move the BF into your home ?

The thing I learned ( the hard way ) is that liars sometimes like to paint a picture to manipulate others as well. I'm not saying the your ex best friend is without blame but she might have been fed things that weren't exactly true. And instead airing every precieved slight with you or the livin BF he ran to her.

That being said 3 yrs worth of decisions ....actively choosing the wrong path ...actively choosing what to share and what not to share to me that's a huge deal.

Also it's a little ironic and indicative of communication issues that you're tell your husband that the thought of his touch / sex with him makes your skin crawl. It seems both of you have trouble being brutally honest and both of you like to second guess to fallout.

I'm afraid I don't have much advice accept protect yourself and the kids.

 

[Emmy]

When and how in this time line did you move the BF into your home ?

About 14 months ago. About 20 months ago, my boyfriend was experiencing financial issues. I helped him resolve them (through evaluating and budgeting) and then while he was selling his house (which was double-mortgaged and costing him half his net income) he stayed with us while looking for a new place and/or a roommate.

My husband started working out of state a few months prior to that and suggested that my boyfriend consider moving in (he was here all the time anyway) so my husband felt better about leaving me and the kids alone. It was a mutual decision that didn't happen overnight.

The thing I learned ( the hard way ) is that liars sometimes like to paint a picture to manipulate others as well. I'm not saying the your ex best friend is without blame but she might have been fed things that weren't exactly true. And instead airing every precieved slight with you or the livin BF he ran to her.

Probably, though I think they fed each other things that weren't necessarily true to maintain the narrative. Maybe it was mutual justification? I don't know, it's speculation at this point. I hope that's not the case because it would imply that this is likely to happen again.

That being said 3 yrs worth of decisions ....actively choosing the wrong path ...actively choosing what to share and what not to share to me that's a huge deal.

And you know something? A handful of our mutual friends knew about it too. That's mindblowing to me. An entire culture of active disregard for another. Crazy.

Also it's a little ironic and indicative of communication issues that you're tell your husband that the thought of his touch / sex with him makes your skin crawl. It seems both of you have trouble being brutally honest and both of you like to second guess to fallout.

I don't think I used the words "skin crawls" but rather that I had difficulty concentrating on enjoying it instead of the graphic contents of her email playing over again in my mind. Did he provoke that or did she? I'm not sure. Maybe both.

I don't recall how he approached me, just that things were still fresh and raw and he thought that was how we would reconnect to one another. It didn't work and I told him so. I tried a few times and he hasn't approached me again.

My feelings about multiple aspects of this little circus are all over the map and vary from hour to hour. I'm hurt and disappointed, but I don't want to say or do something that I will regret or that will make it worse. I have made no promises to him other than I am sorting it out, that I am trying.

I'm afraid I don't have much advice accept protect yourself and the kids.

They're blissfully unaware, thankfully.

 

[dingedheart]

Clearly we can rule out the " move in " as some sort of trigger point.



The narrative: I'm sure it did/ they did feed each other. Also would it be in his personality to take on the victim role ??

Another thing that bothers me is that I can't stand for him to touch me right now. I allow it, but sex with him makes my skin crawl. I have told him as much as gently as I possibly can, which is another reason I am worried that he will reach out to her. If I unwittingly made him feel unwanted and lonely by dating my boyfriend - this certainly qualifies. This is further compounded by the fact that sex with my boyfriend has become much better - more passionate and fulfilling. It's something I need right now and it distracts me from the pain I feel. That is not something I have disclosed to my husband because I don't want to hurt him or drive him away.