The fine line between their problems and my feelings

[ThreesACrowd]

I live with my gf and meta, and probably the NRE has wore off, because now I'm irritated a lot by my gf. A lot of my irritation comes from watching how she treats my meta. She's just so used to being spoiled and getting all the attention and whatever done for her, that I'm sure she's not really that aware of it, but she's not very considerate of him. For example, his wrist and knees have been bothering him and he came home very down and in pain. She came back from a day party and was hungry, and kept whining about food (I refused to pay it attention after it was apparent she just wanted someone to go fix her something). She kept asking him to basically take responsibility of her hunger and suffer through his pain to make her food so that SHE wouldn't have to get up.

Seeing these things day in and day out just builds up and makes me not want to do anything for her. My meta knows that he should stop bending to her every wish, but in his words, he's "obviously a masochist." I can't control him, and we already had a convo on this so I'm not going to say anything else to him about it since it's between them two. But it is affecting me because it's making me lose respect for my gf, it's irritating me, and leaves me not wanting to do her any favors. The food that he was preparing was taking too long, and so she asked me to warm her up something while I was in the kitchen and basically I refused, but not in a hostile way.

There's a fine line between their relationship problems and my own feelings. I've finally understood that there is no point in stressing myself About their problems. If they won't survive, then there's nothing I can do to stop that. Honestly this revelation has been quite relieving. But how do I deal with how their relationship affects me and my perception of my gf?

Honestly it may not be compatible for her and I to live together long term, especially if they end up breaking up. I truly worry if they were to break up, she would lean on me to the inappropriate extent that she leans on him. I fucking refuse to baby her and stunt her growth. She's otherwise an incredibly intelligent, passionate, and ambitious strong woman, so it's offputting when at home she acts like a baby that can't lift a finger for herself, mevermind for anyone else when she doesn't feel like it.

There are a couple convos I need to sit down at have with her, I just haven't yet because it's always the "wrong time." But it'll probably never be the right time. I feel resentment building and I don't want to waste anyone's time. I really wanna be open and communicate, but struggling with how to do that with someone who will likely become defensive and emotional and not actually have an adult convo with me.

 

[vinsanity0]

Well...you don't really know someone until you live with them. So how do you deal with this?

You could try talking to her about it. Not sure how well that would work with a spoiled brat.

You could leave. Not sure how good the relationship is aside from this though.

You could stay and just hope he doesn't get fed up and leave, thereby putting you in his position. If he leaves things will probably come to a head.

What you probably can't do is change your perspective on someone based on their actions. Unless you are willing to accept that behavior as normal for an adult.

If I got to the point of this has got to stop or I am out of here, I would opt to confront her. I would make plans to leave if that doesn't go well.

 

[GalaGirl]

I really wanna be open and communicate, but struggling with how to do that with someone who will likely become defensive and emotional and not actually have an adult convo with me.

I would say go ahead and communicate clearly and without emotional attachment. Not like you do not care about about people... but like you let people own their own stuff and do their own side of the job.

When you communicate something to me? You open your mouth and words some out. That's your side of the job. Hopefully you do it in a calm, decent way and don't spew venom at me. My side of the job at that point in time is to listen.

When I respond? I open my mouth and words come out. Hopefully I do it in a calm, decent way and don't spew venom at you. Then it is your turn to listen.

It's like you want to do your side of the job but don't because you are worried I will suck at listening and then spew out crap at you when it is my turn to talk.

How about you just talk to me decently, expect me to listen decently and expect me to talk back decently? And if I don't?

You could say "Look, I see receiving feedback upsets you. To me, that shows somewhere in there you know this behavior is not cool. You are an incredibly intelligent, passionate, and ambitious strong woman, so it's off putting watching you do these behaviors. If I stay silent, as your partner I am not helping you be your best self. So what do you want me to do? Help you be your best self or ignore it and pretend it is ok when you do poor behavior?"

If she starts spewing more venom...

You say "I am trying to have an adult conversation with you. I do not appreciate you acting out at me. I can see you are not ready to have a calm discussion about this. Tell me when you are. I would like to think you can behave better than this." Then you leave the room.

Nothing about that is mean. If someone invites you to have a fusspot argument thing? You do NOT have to accept the invitation. But you HAVE spoken your truth and I know what you wanted to communicate. Whether I liked hearing it or not.

She came back from a day party and was hungry, and kept whining about food (I refused to pay it attention after it was apparent she just wanted someone to go fix her something). She kept asking him to basically take responsibility of her hunger and suffer through his pain to make her food so that SHE wouldn't have to get up.

You could have spoken up and said, "GF, I see you are hungry. Do you see he is in pain? Could you please be willing to go make yourself some toast? Then you are not asking a person in pain to get up to serve you and you get the hungry solved."

Nothing about that is mean. Nothing about that is not true. The dude IS in pain. She IS asking a person in pain to serve her.

To Dude, you could say "Dude, do you see she is capable of making toast? Do you see YOU are in pain? Could you be willing to say "NO" when she asks you to do things that hurt you right now?"

Seems goofy to have to point that out to Dude, but it's also goofy a grown woman who can manage to find her way home cannot manage to find her way to the kitchen to make some toast. So... don't sit there pretending you do not see the goofy in your home. Ask them to OWN their side of their jobs.

They either do it or not... but nobody can pretend you are blind to it if you are speaking up. Hopefully they cut it out (at least around you).

But how do I deal with how their relationship affects me and my perception of my gf?

You could speak up when GF does those behaviors and tell her what to do INSTEAD to solve her stuff.

Whether she does it or not? Is another thing. But then you are not adding to Dude's burden by being silent while you watch her take advantage of him.

If she still doesn't change her ways and he keeps on serving her and watching this dysfunction results in you losing respect for both of them? It remains off putting?

Why is that a horrible thing? Then you know you don't want to keep participating with people like that. And you can make your next choices after that.

Galagirl

 

[Seinneann]

Something I really like about dating while poly is that I can see how our partners treat other partners in their relationships (just like how our partners treat their friends, acquaintances, work colleagues and the server at the restaurant can be very informative.) This tells me a lot about what kind of person they are.

The one time I decided to not take on board how one of my partners was treating her other partners badly (because she was treating me very well at the time), I grew to regret it. Ultimately, I found out that I didn't really like people who had it in them to treat others that way, including the person I was dating. And it didn't take long after the NRE wore off for her to treat me just like she treated the others.

You may want to pay attention to how you would feel about this kind of behaviour in someone you weren't romantically involved with, then ask yourself if you're overlooking that because of the romantic involvement.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi ThreesACrowd,

I know it sounds extreme, but maybe moving out is the thing to do, so that you don't have to see your girlfriend's bad behavior (which upsets you), and you also don't have to see your metamour's enabling behavior (which also upsets you). Then you don't have to be upset, and they can work things out however between the two of them.

This is assuming, of course, that your girlfriend pitches a fit when you try to talk to her about it. Or that she promises to do better, but then doesn't keep that promise. If her behavior improves, then you don't need to worry about it.

I'm sure it is frustrating to be caught in the middle. Hopefully it won't always be that way.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[anamikanon]

I'm more concerned that you are judging your girlfriend about her behavior with her other partner and it is souring your relationship with her.

I'm not one to worry much about how things "should" be between other people as long as they are working for them and no one is abused.

Clearly your meta is fine taking pain to please her. He's referred to himself as a masochist. He knows he definitely has support in you to push back if he wants, but is choosing not to take it.

There can be many factors at play in such relationships. A relationship may be unequal on one level, but compensates in others where it could be unequal in other ways. It is not to say this is ideal, but it works in different ways that are not transparent to outsiders.

To give an example from my life, I'm not the domesticated sort at all. Sure, I'm self sustainable, but I'd rather hire help (wait, read the rest, not comparing partners with hired help). If you see Spexy and me socially, you'd find Spexy caring for my biological son almost independently of me. He doesn't drink. If we go to a stayover party, you'd find me not even looking at my son and Spexy completely taking care of him (and it can be considerable work). He hasn't complained. I haven't stopped being "selfish" and making him do the child minding while I party in a party both of us are attending.

What is going on behind that obviously unfair scene? I am asocial by nature, plus living away from the city and having a disabled child makes casual interaction with most close friends non-existent. It is very rare for me to socialize and it usually stresses me out to go to the city. I only do it when I really like the people I'll be meeting. So I use the opportunity to get a lot of interacting done. Spexy lives in another city and has a considerably more active social life. He genuinely adores the kid and it is reciprocated. Spexy wants to make these trips to the city most enjoyable and least exhausting for me. It is a precious gift I don't get easily. I accept.

On the other hand, there are areas of our relationship where I pull way more than my fair share of responsibility. When it comes to communication, talking about emotions or even other things that matter, Spexy can be erratic at best. I often end up hurt with thoughtless behavior resulting from fears he can't deal with. I have literally had to deal with him as a psychologically disturbed person over and over. Is this fair? Also no. I mean, shouldn't he simply talk straight? But he can't. I value the person he is, and accept this unfairness as a price I willingly embrace.

What I am saying is that the dynamics between the two of them will have many layers not known to you. If you find it unfair and have offered support that does not seem to have been taken, then you have to stop judging her without seeing the full picture and trust there is some reason he WANTS to do things for her. And yes, there are loads of people who wouldn't let a little pain stop them from doing what they wish to do for another.

The important thing here is that you got asked to cook for her, which you found offensive. Is it because you feel your boundaries are violated right now or because you fear that you could find yourself in the place of your meta? Because you have data from your own experience that allows you to evaluate the risk of you being treated similarly. After you refused to fix her a meal, did she force you in any manner or get back to you with other subtle punishments or was your refusal honored? If you refused and that was the end of the matter, I don't think you are at risk of having to adopt her.

Also worth considering is whether your paranoia about being treated like your meta is making you overreact to simple requests. If this isn't a daily habit, I wouldn't think too much about fixing a meal for a partner or refusing, if I didn't want to. If you are going through regular pressure to serve her, maybe it is useful to talk about that rather than meta.

 

[ThreesACrowd]

Something I really like about dating while poly is that I can see how our partners treat other partners in their relationships (just like how our partners treat their friends, acquaintances, work colleagues and the server at the restaurant can be very informative.) This tells me a lot about what kind of person they are.

The one time I decided to not take on board how one of my partners was treating her other partners badly (because she was treating me very well at the time), I grew to regret it. Ultimately, I found out that I didn't really like people who had it in them to treat others that way, including the person I was dating. And it didn't take long after the NRE wore off for her to treat me just like she treated the others.

You may want to pay attention to how you would feel about this kind of behaviour in someone you weren't romantically involved with, then ask yourself if you're overlooking that because of the romantic involvement.

Yea that's why I'm taking it seriously now, and want to avert the problem. Before determining she's a lost cause and will treat me that way, I want to give her the chance to make the mature decision to behave differently. I will not be able to tolerate this if done to me and we would end up breaking up or I just wouldn't be able to live with her and be relied on so heavily.

 

[ThreesACrowd]

Hi ThreesACrowd,

I know it sounds extreme, but maybe moving out is the thing to do, so that you don't have to see your girlfriend's bad behavior (which upsets you), and you also don't have to see your metamour's enabling behavior (which also upsets you). Then you don't have to be upset, and they can work things out however between the two of them.

This is assuming, of course, that your girlfriend pitches a fit when you try to talk to her about it. Or that she promises to do better, but then doesn't keep that promise. If her behavior improves, then you don't need to worry about it.

I'm sure it is frustrating to be caught in the middle. Hopefully it won't always be that way.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

I'm honestly at a loss on how to bring it up. I've had two convos with her in the last two weeks that are about things bothering me, and the one that went on yesterday went very poorly. She said I keep accusing her of being selfish, and bringing up this convo will just feed that opinion and not be effective. I was trying to communicate better, and tanked. I'm seriously worried about bringing anything else up to her for awhile. I can understand...if every week she came to me with a new thing I'd feel a bit offended too.

But as far as moving out...that's definitely something I'm considering as a likelihood if things don't change or if the two of them break up. I just can't see how we'd thrive like this.

 

[breathemusic]

She said that you keep accusing her of being selfish.... but from what you're describing, it sounds like she IS selfish. Sooooo, yes. If she's being selfish and you're calling her selfish, then I'm sure it sucks to hear that, but at least you're being honest. If she can't accept the honest opinion of someone that she's dating trying to tell her when a behavior is upsetting to her partner, then again... she's selfish because she doesn't really care how her actions effect the people she's dating.

I know you're hesitant to keep having convo after convo about different things, and I can understand not wanting it to feel like every time you're together you're just complaining or criticizing, but if you're having these feelings, keeping them in is going to cause resentment, as you already said.

You could certainly address it and say "hey, I know we've been having a lot of these convos, and I agree that the timing sucks to have to have so many, but I'm trying to be open and honest with you and communicate my feelings. These things really bother me and make me uncomfortable in this living arrangement so it's important to me that I be able to share my feelings with you and feel heard." She may or may not change, and that's her choice. But then it will be your choice as to whether to stay with her (be that living with her or even dating her at all).

 

[ThreesACrowd]

I'm more concerned that you are judging your girlfriend about her behavior with her other partner and it is souring your relationship with her.

I'm not one to worry much about how things "should" be between other people as long as they are working for them and no one is abused.

Clearly your meta is fine taking pain to please her. He's referred to himself as a masochist. He knows he definitely has support in you to push back if he wants, but is choosing not to take it.

I'm sorry I should have added more detail about what meta and I have talked about. He has definitely unprompted expressed to me that he feels like he does way more for her than she reciprocates, that she used to do more but then stopped helping out, that he just does things for her because it's easier than fighting about it, etc. Hes a really nice guy and much more soft spoken so he hasn't felt very comfortable "putting his foot down" on the issue. He and I spent a whole weekend discussing how we could possibly bring about change, like sitting down as a family and creating a chore routine and distribution. We talked about how we could tactically get everyone on bored and stay committed. We really racked our brains trying to figure out how bring out the change we BOTH want. He jokingly said he's a masochist when I saw him limping to the kitchen and I asked surprisingly if he was going to make food. That was his way of discretely saying, "I know.. I know we talked both talked and separately decided to let the gf take on some responsibility, but I just can't stop myself."

If you find it unfair and have offered support that does not seem to have been taken, then you have to stop judging her without seeing the full picture and trust there is some reason he WANTS to do things for her. And yes, there are loads of people who wouldn't let a little pain stop them from doing what they wish to do for another.

I've offered support and it has always been widely embraced. Whether it just is being an ear, offering communication advice, or picking up my share + in the house, he's always not only embraced it but expressly thanked me for it and explained how it makes him feel so much better. When I was in NRE I didn't mind doing her share of the work because I just liked to please both of them. But now I just feel like I'm enabling her behavior and unnecessarily doing more than I need to.

The important thing here is that you got asked to cook for her, which you found offensive. Is it because you feel your boundaries are violated right now or because you fear that you could find yourself in the place of your meta? Because you have data from your own experience that allows you to evaluate the risk of you being treated similarly. After you refused to fix her a meal, did she force you in any manner or get back to you with other subtle punishments or was your refusal honored? If you refused and that was the end of the matter, I don't think you are at risk of having to adopt her.

Also worth considering is whether your paranoia about being treated like your meta is making you overreact to simple requests. If this isn't a daily habit, I wouldn't think too much about fixing a meal for a partner or refusing, if I didn't want to. If you are going through regular pressure to serve her, maybe it is useful to talk about that rather than meta.

I am definitely paranoid about this. I think often there is often a cultural dynamic in monogamous heteronormative relationships where men are expected to be THE protectors and caregiver of the woman and expected to pay for more things, and I see a lot of that in their relationship. And because I'm more dominant than her and all she knows has been Hereronormative mono relationships, yea I certainly am nervous that I too will be treated this way and especially if they break up.

When I made it clear I wasn't interested in making her food, she said fine begrudgingly and then never warmed up her food. My meta got up and did it for her (and that's when the "masochist" exchange came up). It's a day in and day out thing that she will whine for someone else to do something for her to save her from getting up, that her stuff won't get picked up unless we pick it up, and that if you ask her to do anything she doesn't feel like doing when you ask her she will get snappy and upset.

The thing is she's such a wonderful girl. She's intelligent and full of passion. She's strong and opinionated. She's mature. But when it comes to this stuff, she acts pretty immature. She doesn't do things cuz she doesn't want to instead of being an adult and just doing it. I also wonder if she's suffering from mild depression and has lost a lot of motivation (because she has lost motivation in an area she is really passionate about). But her maturity in other areas is what lets me know she has potential to change if she wants to.

 

[anamikanon]

What she does after you refuse is her business. She may choose to heat food, eat it cold, go hungry - it is her choice and not a fault that she didn't heat it up. But if she is accepting when you say no, I'd say she may enjoy being catered to, but isn't going to force you to do it against your will. It is a fine line, but it exists. Those who are trying to use people, will manipulate them into acting against their wish. Those who would like someone to do something for them, because they don't enjoy it, will request, but not force. The first, in my opinion is abuse. The second is more harmless and always leaves you the option of refusing.

I am stressing this difference because many people see such things as care or pampering and it may simply be a person who expends much creativity in other directions and likes support to be in the form of not having to think about mundane matters. Many creative people or those who otherwise expend intensity in focused areas can be hopelessly disinterested in managing "maintenance" type tasks. They'd like these things to be taken care of, and sometimes find it in a partner. In the sense that it is more scatterbrained than malicious and should usually resolve with very clear communication that you don't enjoy those tasks either In such cases a solution can be to hire help to tackle some of the mundane stuff.

But if she is just using people, finding help with some tasks won't prevent her from putting anyone handy to use anyway.

[Disclaimer: I'm the highly creative type who detests mundane work. I hire help and accept absolutely all support that lets me dodge it. But when necessary, I am perfectly capable of rolling up my sleeves and doing it and I most certainly wouldn't expect anyone to do it if they refused. My con is to be awesome and give massively in other ways that people want to pamper me ]

 

[GalaGirl]

When I made it clear I wasn't interested in making her food, she said fine begrudgingly and then never warmed up her food. My meta got up and did it for her (and that's when the "masochist" exchange came up). It's a day in and day out thing that she will whine for someone else to do something for her to save her from getting up, that her stuff won't get picked up unless we pick it up, and that if you ask her to do anything she doesn't feel like doing when you ask her she will get snappy and upset.

That would get tiresome to live with.

If you have already had repeated conversations with her about it and the she will not change her behavior? Could stop talking about it. Rather than throwing energy down the black hole of "never changes." You put the energy into the changes YOU can make.

Stop enabling her behavior and don't do more than you need to. Focus your energies on moving out. It probably won't be til you move out that she will realize how serious it is. And even then... she still might not stop it since meta is around to serve her and he won't put his foot down on that stuff.

But that doesn't mean you can't put YOUR foot down on that stuff.

Galagirl

 

[icesong]

[Disclaimer: I'm the highly creative type who detests mundane work. I hire help and accept absolutely all support that lets me dodge it. But when necessary, I am perfectly capable of rolling up my sleeves and doing it and I most certainly wouldn't expect anyone to do it if they refused. My con is to be awesome and give massively in other ways that people want to pamper me ]

Haha wow that's me too. It doesn't make me a bad person (or manipulative or whatever), it DOES make me an incompatible person for people who value a certain flavor of "I'll do it myself-ness".