Trying to answer a question I can't pin down the answer to, maybe someone else can

[Sageflutterby]

So, I know that some thought sending flowers to my metamour was too much.

My metamour kept the flowers on the table and then sent our hinge with peach cobbler and her recipe to me after she found an old postcard I had sent her last year. I guess it altered her perspective.

She scheduled their anniversary date on a weekend other than one normally scheduled for hinge and I, and is starting to pencil in and use the calendar to schedule dates with our hinge. They are repairing their relationship.

Last year when we all entered into polyamory, before the shit hit the fan, I was fine and desiring to work to be acceptable in the polycule. I wanted to be part of the community. I wanted acceptance.

I can't figure out why I'm not thrilled things are starting to change for the positive. I should be happy but I'm not. At what point do I start trusting the positive changes to be solid?

I've been given apologies and nice behavior before and then experienced a 180. And I'm not a believer any more, I'm like, I did all this hard work and emotional processing and trying to process compassion and empathy all last year. This forum helped me get through some of the hardest moments.

And I just don't understand why there's not a "Yay, it's all working finally" happy reaction of relief and joy.

Is there something else I should be working on to be happy and accepting that things are finally appearing to go in the right direction? When does trust come back, how do others measure when change looks permanent and trust is restored?

I just can't figure out why I'm not thrilled that the polycule is making steps forward instead of backward. And I just don't understand what changed to trigger the 180 again. I do not comprehend how someone can hate me or my role in someone's life and then a few weeks later be totally ok with things.

I am struggling trying to understand my reactions and figure out how to get over this hurdle. I told our hinge, Awpti, that I felt more scared and not trusting than anything when I considered the metamour but that I was trying to ignore that and just focus on our relationship.

Maybe I'm just tired. I don't know. I have implemented some suggestions from previous threads.

 

[lunabunny]

You said it yourself... this person has proven herself to be unworthy of trust many times in the past. Once trust has been broken, it's not so easily restored.

Basically, only time will time if her feelings of remorse and desire to work things out between you all are genuine, or yet another manipulative ploy to lull you into a false sense of security.

(It is also possible that your meta has mental health issues that include aspects of bipolar or borderline personality, which would make her moods very labile and prone to switching suddenly - just something to consider.)

Right now... I'd try to stay calm and enjoy the peace. Work with them, while staying quietly alert for signs of anything you're not comfortable with. Sometimes over the top "ingratiating" behaviour can be as worrisome as outright aggression and intransigence when you don't trust the person.

However, if you want to heal this polycule dynamic, there will come a point where YOU have to just trust that everyone, including meta, is on the level... and let the past go.

How much time to you give it before you drop your guard? Only you will know when enough time has passed "without incident" that you can safely assume the worst is over and meta has truly turned a new leaf. At that time, you'll have to TRULY let the past go and not keep bringing up old gripes and picking over old wounds.

I'd say, try to be cautiously optimistic if 2-3 months pass without any sign of return to old, bad form.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Sageflutterby,

I don't necessarily think you would be wise to start trusting your metamour at this point in time. She has proven to be highly unstable in the past, possibly even dishonest. You don't know that she is not trying to pull the wool over your eyes right now, get you off guard so she can really stab you later. I would hold off on trusting her right now. Even if she keeps this up for a couple of months, I would then only slowly begin to let my guard down. I think you will know when the time is right to trust her again. Trust your instincts.

With regards,
Kevin T.

 

[GalaGirl]

I've been given apologies and nice behavior before and then experienced a 180

That's why you don't trust this. Past experiences tell you not to.


From past posts? I think you meta might be a mental health patient person who may or may not have an official dx. So in the meanwhile? She goes up and down and up and down.

When does trust come back, how do others measure when change looks permanent and trust is restored?

I would suggest you enjoy the "ups" while they are here, and the peace and quiet. And don't be surprised when a new "down" cycle happens.
But don't trust this to be like turning over a new leaf or permanent change in behavior if she's not going to get a check up and form an actual management plan with a doctor.

And even with a management plan... some things are not fixable. My father has Alzheimer. I don't trust him. Not to drive, not to pay his bills on time, not to remember anything, not to do chores he's supposed to do... nothing. He's a patient. Not a healthy person. When he's hornery and acting out and raging? That's life as usual with him. He has meds to help cool his jets and address some of the behavior problems. I also don't let him get away with it -- I tell him it's not appropriate, I expect apology, etc when he's being a brat. "Patient" is not "free pass to be an asshole." But I also don't hold a grudge and let the next day "start over." He cannot help being ill.

When he has good days and manages to be polite and somewhat reasonable? I call it a bonus and enjoy the break. But I don't kid myself that this is permanent. It's just a break. What is permanent is that he has Alzheimer's and he's never going to be cured of it.

So... if you are in this network and choose to keep going with it? You have to figure out your boundaries with your meta. Esp if she goes up and down with her moods and might be a metal health patient of some kind.

Enjoy the cobbler and the ease of scheduling for now. But don't think it means anything permanent. If she's habitually up and down and up and down and up and down? That's what you can put your trust in. That sooner or later the circle will repeat. Anything "up" will eventually come "down" again. And anything "down" might go "up" later.

Galagirl

 

[Sageflutterby]

Thank you.

What I am seeing spoken in the posts are things I have been telling myself and some things, re the mental health that Lunabunny and Galagirl mentioned are things that I have been wondering as well. But as I am not a doctor, of course, I can't actually be certain nor even know if I am accurate.

The pattern of ups and downs, if it's related to mental health, I know may not be curable, like Galagirl's mention of her relative. And there is also Kevin's post which also mirrors my uncertainty. My oldest partner says that people with abusive behaviors are also liable to use disclosures as tools to an end and so I started out trying to share looking for commonalities and reasons not to seem a threat, (See we have something in common moments type reasoning) but instead what I ended up with is handing someone the keys to make decisions knowing how I was likely to react to someone else's advantage.

I have done a lot of reading and research. I think, and I have been reading P.S. I love you's essay on abusive behavior in polyamorous relationships, that one of the hardest disconnects is disassociating abusive behavior from the perspective that someone is evil or bad. I've struggled with that. Recognizing the hurtful behavior is a symptom of something deeper was logical in many respects but I still felt powerless to do anything about that and how it impacted me, short of walking away.

And I don't want my partners to feel like everything is a test to see if I will walk away or not. It shouldn't be that way. But I feel like I'm in a waiting in limbo to see if the bad behaviors of last year start to repeat.

Awpti has indicated that if I ended the relationship he would just buckle down and focus on keeping his family taken care of, which essentially told me if I decided to walk away with the mindset of, "We can try again when things are sorted out or fixed or better" that it would be a permanent end. And I still have not hit a point where I can handle not having this person in my life.

We've spoken at length. Friendship is not something either of us would be able to manage. Neither of us are very good at stepping backwards once we've gone down a path, which means for all intents and purposes the only way for me to cope and heal with such a large degree of hurt would be no contact. And I'm not ready for that.

Awpti has said he would take whatever crumbs he could get with me, with the mindset of that the crumbs would be a temporary process. And I've been sitting here thinking for the last year, the same question if I was ok with crumbs.

The thing is, if there is a mental health thing going on and no movement to make that situation better, I am not willing to sacrifice my mental health needs to support hers. I have to be able to function. I guess I had been approaching it with "I know my coping methods are pretty good, strong even" and thinking that I could offset her [the metamour's] lack of coping by carrying a bit more of the emotional strain. I did have a conversation with Awpti about the fact that I thought she needed help with coping and emotional regulation. He's her everything, is the words her other partner and she [metamour] use to describe Awpti, so I think as earlier discussed that her fear of abandonment is not something that is going to just go away.

I am expecting another 180. Awpti and I are in agreement that we are watching for that in the next two months or so, if it follows the normal pattern. He declined a shared trip or outings with her and I and our families until she could demonstrate consistency and stability with regard to handling the hinge having another relationship. Her other relationship seems to have stabilized and she is calling Awpti "our" partner instead of making statements about wanting what is hers to belong to her again.

I imagine if I hit a hard road, I'll post again. This forum has been a great source of relief for me, to have others with experience to talk to and look for perspective.

Thank you again.

 

[lunabunny]

What I am seeing spoken in the posts are things I have been telling myself and some things, re the mental health that Lunabunny and Galagirl mentioned are things that I have been wondering as well.

The pattern of ups and downs, if it's related to mental health, I know may not be curable

The thing is, if there is a mental health thing going on and no movement to make that situation better, I am not willing to sacrifice my mental health needs to support hers. I have to be able to function.

My oldest partner says that people with abusive behaviors are also liable to use disclosures as tools to an end and so I started out trying to share looking for commonalities and reasons not to seem a threat, (See we have something in common moments type reasoning) but instead what I ended up with is handing someone the keys to make decisions knowing how I was likely to react to someone else's advantage.

That is very insightful of your other partner, and true in my experience.

At one stage, when Jester and I were just starting up a flirtation but hadn't officially gotten together, Boho (who was a mutual friend) started pumping me for information so obviously that I felt as though I was undergoing the Spanish inquisition regarding my emotional state and headspace.

At the time, I suspected she had feelings for him but did NOT know they were essentially "together", at least in a FWB sense. Still, my intuition told me not to reveal too much about my own feelings and thought processes, or where Jester and I were "at" in our developing relationship - and in hindsight (despite all the bad and good that later came of this love triangle), I am SO glad I did not cave and reveal all someone I thought was a good "friend".

I think it's important to guard both your own privacy, emotions and mental health against those who'd "invade your (head) space" and use what you choose to reveal in good faith against you.

Because, yes, you DO need to be able to function, for your own sake, the good of your family/kids/other partners, and so you can be productive during your work week. And this relationship - and all the mini battles that take place within it on the regular - have been taking a heavy toll on your emotional reserves. More than its fair share, really.

There is really only so long that can go on without you and/or the relationship burning out. But only YOU (and Awpti) can be the judge of how much you can tolerate or where to draw the line, especially, as you say, if no discernible work is being done in the realm of mental health care/management.

To my own cost, I learned where and when I should have drawn the line and refused to go along with an emotionally neglectful situation - i.e. a LOT SOONER than I did! As a consequence, I am battling through a much more severe episode of depression, post breakdown, than I MAY have had I chosen to either be WAY firmer with adhering to my own boundaries, or just gotten out when I first noticed there was a problem that wasn't going away despite repeated discussions and broken promises.

I still have not hit a point where I can handle not having this person in my life... the only way for me to cope and heal with such a large degree of hurt would be no contact. And I'm not ready for that.

Awpti has said he would take whatever crumbs he could get with me... And I've been sitting here thinking for the last year, the same question if I was ok with crumbs.

He's her everything, is the words her other partner and she [metamour] use to describe Awpti, so I think as earlier discussed that her fear of abandonment is not something that is going to just go away.

Her other relationship seems to have stabilized and she is calling Awpti "our" partner instead of making statements about wanting what is hers to belong to her again.

Referring to your shared partner as "ours" seems to be a step in the right direction (once again, if it's genuine and lasting), but even so, there is still that element of ownership coming through quite strongly - even if she's made this concession to sharing him, "on paper" as it were.

I'm also wondering how your meta's OSO feels about being told so forthrightly that HIS meta (Awpti) is your meta's/his partner's "everything"? Maybe he is cool with being a secondary, a support person, or accepting "crumbs" - but from memory, he also lives with them or overnights at their place a lot, right? - so perhaps the disparity isn't as harsh for him.

 

[WhatHappened]

The pattern of ups and downs, if it's related to mental health, I know may not be curable,


I have been reading P.S. I love you's essay on abusive behavior in polyamorous relationships,

Awpti has indicated that if I ended the relationship he would just buckle down and focus on keeping his family taken care of, which essentially told me if I decided to walk away with the mindset of, "We can try again when things are sorted out or fixed or better" that it would be a permanent end.

I don't know enough of your story. I take it metamour is Awpti's wife? Was she all in favor of poly? Given my own experiences and all my reading, I would suggest her ups and downs in trying to handle your place in his life are actually pretty typical.

Can you leave a link for P.S. I love you's essay? I'd like to read it.

Byron did the same thing--telling me once someone breaks up with him, he never, ever gets back together again. Over. I consider that emotional manipulation if not outright emotional blackmail. Especially if there aren't steps being taken to fix the problem.

I also think it's cruel to invite someone into your life in a loving, intimate way and tell them...but if you end it, oh, well, I'm just going back to my family.

Both these things together really leave someone with the feeling that it's my (our/the couple's) way or the highway. It's exactly what leaves people feeling Less Than, and is if they're the add-on, entertainment, rather than a real girlfriend.

Has Awpti ever had any real long-term successful secondary relationship?

 

[icesong]

Byron did the same thing--telling me once someone breaks up with him, he never, ever gets back together again. Over. I consider that emotional manipulation if not outright emotional blackmail. Especially if there aren't steps being taken to fix the problem.

It's interesting that you find that manipulative - I find it more honest / refreshing. Perhaps it's because HipsterBoy and I had a lot of on again / off again, "maybe in the future" that just kept me from healing, perhaps it's from watching Joan's partner with her on-again, off-again meta and seeing what that situation does to him and by extension others in the network.

 

[Ravenscroft]

Byron did the same thing--telling me once someone breaks up with him, he never, ever gets back together again. Over. I consider that emotional manipulation if not outright emotional blackmail. Especially if there aren't steps being taken to fix the problem.

Well... dunno, but I feel that's kinda how I am.

The "emotional blackmail" thing is rather partisan, as manipulation isn't a solitaire game. Maybe I misinterpret, but follows is what sprang into my head.

See, if someone says to me "I've been thinking about it, & I've decided it's over"... then there's nothing against which to argue except her feelings, & feelings are notoriously immune to logic & reason. Continuing to push at her would just make her more sad &/or angry, right? And then on top of the loss I'd be painted as a jerk for "not respecting her decision."

Let's say that it wasn't just felings, but apparently based on a misunderstanding or mistruth (like me being accused of being in a situation that actually didn't involve me in ANY way). Even if I know the facts & have actual witnesses in my Most Called list... again, anything I do to find a reasonable center is just me "not respecting her decision."

So, I walk away, & feel sad on my own.

But then whose responsibility is it to reopen conversation? Certainly not me: again, that's "not respecting." Even if a mutual friend says "you should just call her," I'd have to stand my ground that boundaries are either real, or they're manipulative.

If she wants to talk, then she should start.

Once, after such a misunderstanding, my near-ex asked me out to coffee, which we used to do regularly. She looked pleasd to see me, but began with "I've decided to forgive you," which was really NOT ideal, as I hadn't "committed the crime" at all, & now additionally felt I was being silenced.

I counter-offered that we ought to discuss what actually happened, & look into why she was so quick to side against me THEN to push me away... & after THAT conversation we could consider whether we both wanted to start over from Square One.

The date didn't last much longer, but I felt satisfied that I'd had a brief chance to present how MY mind works, & what MY needs were.

(She told friends that I abruptly "broke it off with her" & was "being unreasonable again" & that's why SHE "took the high road" & ended the relationship forthrightly. )

 

[WhatHappened]

Well... dunno, but I feel that's kinda how I am.

The "emotional blackmail" thing is rather partisan, as manipulation isn't a solitaire game. Maybe I misinterpret, but follows is what sprang into my head.

See, if someone says to me "I've been thinking about it, & I've decided it's over"... then there's nothing against which to argue except her feelings, & feelings are notoriously immune to logic & reason. Continuing to push at her would just make her more sad &/or angry, right? And then on top of the loss I'd be painted as a jerk for "not respecting her decision."

Let's say that it wasn't just felings, but apparently based on a misunderstanding or mistruth (like me being accused of being in a situation that actually didn't involve me in ANY way). Even if I know the facts & have actual witnesses in my Most Called list... again, anything I do to find a reasonable center is just me "not respecting her decision."

So, I walk away, & feel sad on my own.

But then whose responsibility is it to reopen conversation? Certainly not me: again, that's "not respecting." Even if a mutual friend says "you should just call her," I'd have to stand my ground that boundaries are either real, or they're manipulative.

If she wants to talk, then she should start.

Once, after such a misunderstanding, my near-ex asked me out to coffee, which we used to do regularly. She looked pleasd to see me, but began with "I've decided to forgive you," which was really NOT ideal, as I hadn't "committed the crime" at all, & now additionally felt I was being silenced.

I counter-offered that we ought to discuss what actually happened, & look into why she was so quick to side against me THEN to push me away... & after THAT conversation we could consider whether we both wanted to start over from Square One.

The date didn't last much longer, but I felt satisfied that I'd had a brief chance to present how MY mind works, & what MY needs were.

(She told friends that I abruptly "broke it off with her" & was "being unreasonable again" & that's why SHE "took the high road" & ended the relationship forthrightly. )

Obviously there are many shades of situations. I see the problem as telling someone early on, and multiple times in a relationship: I never get back together again.

Why would you keep telling someone that when nobody is even talking about breaking up? To me, that sounds like a warning.

Also, things do change. People grow. People realize maybe there were some things that were worth talking about. I'm not saying it has to happen or should happen in every case. But again--the problem is a blanket statement warning given when there's not even talk of a break up.

[And actually, he more or less did get back together with me several times...in fact, he made it very very difficult for me to really, completely break up with him.]

 

[Sageflutterby]

I don't know enough of your story. I take it metamour is Awpti's wife? Was she all in favor of poly? Given my own experiences and all my reading, I would suggest her ups and downs in trying to handle your place in his life are actually pretty typical.

Can you leave a link for P.S. I love you's essay? I'd like to read it.

Byron did the same thing--telling me once someone breaks up with him, he never, ever gets back together again. Over. I consider that emotional manipulation if not outright emotional blackmail. Especially if there aren't steps being taken to fix the problem.

I also think it's cruel to invite someone into your life in a loving, intimate way and tell them...but if you end it, oh, well, I'm just going back to my family.

Both these things together really leave someone with the feeling that it's my (our/the couple's) way or the highway. It's exactly what leaves people feeling Less Than, and is if they're the add-on, entertainment, rather than a real girlfriend.

Has Awpti ever had any real long-term successful secondary relationship?

Here is the reading material I have used to guide my understanding for the past year: https://psiloveyou.xyz/confronting-abuse-in-polyamorous-relationships-f9e35eea4546

It is not the only thing but it is a large thing.

Awpti's other relationships while engaged in polyamory and maintaining a relationship with his spouse have fallen away. I believe one moved away and the other did not interact favorably with his spouse/my metamour.

It was one of my armor piercing questions in December to Awpti about some things I came to suspect. I asked more questions when my metamour indicated she hated both me and all his other past partners. And through my questioning Awpti started re-examining some things.

In light of December and a relatively recent conversation, last week, I can say this:

Awpti has kept his commitments to me since January 2018 started.
He has recognized the small pushes phrased as emotional manipulation to control his behavior and has has pushed to maintain boundaries.

I have offered to cancel some of our meets out of respect for emotional stuff in the home. I have also always first inquired if our date nights were still on the day of and try to give him a choice rather than just assume all the time is mine on those days, though I admit to being very unhappy at the thought of losing time. He has assured me and never declined a day.

We made adjustments for his child's birthday and I got to send a birthday present which did not trigger my metamour whereas previously when the children might mention me, it used to upset her.

She has scheduled their anniversary date on a date night for them rather than even hinting at rearranging the calendar, though I have told Awpti I would not mind shifting the calendar out of acknowledgement of their anniversary. And Awpti has not indicated my desire to give a gift for their anniversary would be bad.

We have not yet had me come into the home again though she's offered because I told him I wanted Awpti to speak with her about how she will respond if triggered by physical affection. I have no interest in hanging out if I can't do things like hug, give a kiss, joke, share a glance or hold hands. It doesn't have to be sexual but I do not want to live closeted because of someone's jealousy.

Awpti has taken the stance that he will not walk away, that it will be the choice of me or metamour's actions, that he will not push anyone away. At first I did not like that context but then decided if he was maintaining boundaries as promised and I did not have a grievance unresolved to force me into walking away, that I couldn't fault him for that stance. As long as promises are kept, no one should walk away. Metamour has acknowledged to Awpti she was pushing him away and that was not his fault.

Awpti has made clear how he feels and is not letting small emotional co dependencies stop him from keeping promises. He is redirecting metamour to her other partner when she wants emotional co dependency when Awpti is scheduled to leave the home.

Her other partner is aware that she feels Awpti is her everything and is fine with that statement, from what I can observe. He has accepted for the most part the regulations upon their relationship and its place in their home.

I'm the one who de-stabilized things when I refused to be diminished. I am the one who created the friction because I did not want to have a third party determine my relationship. The other partner, for the most part, as long as he has emotional intimacy and physical closeness and as long as my metamour is happy, is happy. I have seen him twice now since January and he has hugged me in greeting before Awpti and I have left on dates.

I have refused to enter the house at this time. I have been allowed at my metamour's suggestion to have both their boys on a shared outing with Awpti.

Awpti is not moving forward on shared space at this time because we are watching to see if there is another pattern of 180. He is using some of the techniques from the I Hate You, Don't Leave Me as communication patterns because I have seen things that made me think of Borderline Personality Disorder though I am not a doctor and do not know if it is a factor. The communication techniques, however, have been helping. They have moved to a bit more direct communication, where he addresses small pushes of control immediately, offers reassurance and keeps date nights with my metamour. He has also pointed out how he has not left or abandoned their home and her for the last year.

Awpti revealed to me that he has spoken about hierarchies because it has long been my fear that metamour wants a descriptive hierarchy while I practice egaltarian polyamory with the only hierarchy being children above partners (because my children are three year old twin toddlers and Awpti's children are 10 and 5, one with Duchenne's Muscular Dystrophy). Awpti told me in the beginning they practiced the same but I think a large part of the friction came from the fact that him and his spouse had different polyamory in mind. Metamour's other partner regularly refers to himself as a secondary, which made me think that they did practice descriptive hierarchy.

However, I have made clear since I started the relationship that my partners are free to grow each into their own potential that there are no ceilings on relationships and that I preferred to have every partner be a primary.

I still have a dream one day of, if not living together, sharing a neighborhood or a wall or a fence on a property, which was originally metamour's idea last year before all this started happening.

There are a lot of moving pieces.

 

[Sageflutterby]

I don't know enough of your story. I take it metamour is Awpti's wife? Was she all in favor of poly? Given my own experiences and all my reading, I would suggest her ups and downs in trying to handle your place in his life are actually pretty typical.

Awpti and his spouse started polyamory about 11 years ago, a year after they were married. His spouse advised him if they did not try polyamory that she would do it anyway. Their version of polyamory was, until about four years ago, what I would describe as open, less emotional.

They had rules, for example, that one could call the other away and the person who was away would respond for any reason. I objected to that.

Four years ago is when my metamour's other partner became a relationship with permanence and her other partner moved in with them a few years ago because he needed help.

Metamour did not have problems with polyamory until our hinge told her he loved us both equally. She wanted to be loved the most of his relationships is the reassurance she wanted, I believe. After our hinge deepened his relationship with me, she wanted to close their poly vee.

Awpti was not willing to close the vee after our relationship firmed. He said he would have been fine with polyandry before he had his own relationship develop, out of complacency.

And I do agree with the statement that the word "our" regarding Awpti as a hinge was still a sign of ownership. I mentioned that a month ago and that it bothered me. I have made the assertion that if Awpti were to seek out another relationship that I think she would have trouble adjusting.

I try not to think about it too much, to try and manage my own worry over the coming year. Awpti is better at not spilling over relationship stuff though since I can't observe defense of boundaries, sometimes I ask for examples and reassurance to know that he is doing work and just not coasting on metamour's up moments. And he has.

For example, they have discussed what is an emergency and they have a protocol now if there is an emergency what to do if he is with me. He is using the If this, then that app on his phone to filter her messages when he is out with me, so no more interrupting sex with texting. Of course, when we are not in a physically intimate moment, there is no boundary on checking messages and responding. Despite my attempts to distance myself from my metamour's hostility, I am still interested in her stability.

I do want Awpti to be happy and I do want his family to flourish. Because I feel like the best chance of success for polyamory to work is if all parties are happy and healthy. I think it would be easier with enthusiastic consent. I feel offended that Awpti has to fight for the same respects he gives our metamour.

I feel that what my partners give to me I should be willing to give back.

And I have discussed that equality is not the same as equivalence, which is what i really want.

For those who might be reading who don't practice the difference it looks like this:

Equality
There are 8 blueberries and 4 people in the relationship. Equality dictates everyone gets 2 blueberries, whether or not they want that many.

Equivalence
There are 8 blueberries and 4 people in the relationship. Equivalence says that communication occurs and if 1 person wants 3 berries, 1 person wants 1 berry and the remaining 2 people each want 2 berries then that is fine and everyone should be content because they had their needs met.

In the end, I may not feel compersion. I may not be friends with my metamour but I do want a voice, I do want consideration and equivalence. I do want my needs and my presence to be respected. I am a person.

I am not just Awpti's other partner. I will consider it a true measure of progress when I am allowed to have a voice at the polycule discussions that already occur between hinge, metamour and other partner with regard to things that define my relationship and only with regard to things that include me.

When I no longer feel ostracized and walking on egg shells, then I will consider progress. I realize many people practice solo poly lifestyles. That is not what I set out having. I'm not going to live the next forty years living on in a strictly compartmentalized life. Awpti is indicating that he does not want that either.

But neither do I want to force onto the metamour things she does not want either. Metamour indicated in a letter that she wants to work on herself so that I can have overnights at Awpti's again. The old postcards she found that I sent her last year was talking about my toddlers exhausting me and wanting a break and how visiting their home gave me that and I guess it made her see me as a person just a little bit.

I am hopeful but scared and sometimes the fear makes me lock up and not trust Awpti. I am trying to keep trusting him. He is not freezing in indecision like last year. He is a good partner both to me and metamour.

 

[kdt26417]

Those last two posts really describe your situation well, Sage. I appreciate you sharing them.

 

[lunabunny]

I second Kevin's comment.

You've done a really good job of answering our questions AND summing up the overall situation from outset to now, Sageflutterby.

 

[anamikanon]

You don't have to trust her to enjoy the improvements. "Things seem to be better right now. Let me enjoy it while it lasts" is good enough for immediate relief.

No point projecting too far into the future and failure. You know what lies at the end of that road. You don't like it. Not much you can do to prevent it. So why go there? Use your awareness that a 180 is possible to highlight the present - that it hasn't yet happened and you have a pleasant breather from the problems. You don't have to trust her for that. You simply have to recognize that right now she isn't creating problems.

Project far enough and we all die. But no point holding the funeral right now.