Taken a turn...

[Voluptuouschef]

So almost a year ago my husband agreed to start the ball rolling on opening our marriage on my side. He wishes to remain mono with zero interest in others. To start it I joined a dating website and started talking to men, though I am also interested in women. After a few months of talking I realized I'm not interested in hook ups at all but more meaningful relationships with others. So I started trying to sell him on poly. Maybe it worries him more, instead of just physical I could end up loving someone else. He reluctantly agreed and I let myself actually start falling for the man I talk to the most, and ended up exclusively speaking to him. Several weeks ago after getting a new tattoo my artist started texting me, I had been discussing open marriages with him and even though he isn't in one he likes me. I explained ethical nonmonogomy to him and informed him that us hooking up would mean him cheating on his wife so it wasn't going to happen. I did keep talking to him though but not with any intentions of it ever going anywhere. I was actually trying to figure out how to end it without losing him as my artist. Fast forward his wife checks the phone records sees hundred+ texts and flips out starts calling me and texting me and I maintained we were just friends. Even though he was actively trying to have sex with me it's not my place to tell her. Eventually she found his ex girlfriend through his phone records, they broke up about a month ago. And she left me alone for the most part, I did lose him though and it sucks. I have been trying to be super open and honest with my husband through out, he knew I was talking to the artist because since it's someone I actually know I wanted him to be aware. He knew I wasn't interested romantically because of his being married and he just wanted me to drop him all together. I could tell hearing about it bothered him. However when the crap hit the fan he and I ended up falling out over it. He was sneaking into my phone at night and reading the texts I would have shown him had he asked, which I found out while I was telling him about the wife flipping out on me. I felt betrayed because it's really hard for me to be so forthcoming all the time but I'm freaking trying. After it was all said and done he said he can't handle polyamory he isn't sold on it and doesn't understand why I want to be with other people. I literally haven't even taken a physical step it's all been talking and now he's just shut it down again. We talked about divorce but neither of us wants it. It sucks because I still want it and I'm finding it really hard to be open and honest again after feeling so betrayed by him. I'm feeling increasingly disconnected and isolated by all this because I can't talk to anyone, the only one that know is my best friend and she thinks it's morally and biblically wrong so I can't even discuss it with her. I feel so trapped and just sad.

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

It's no one's fault, but you and your husband can't agree on this issue. This is turning you both into people you don't want to be.

Divorce SUCKS, but at least there is an end point to it. You two are looking at making each other miserable until one of you dies or you just don't give a shit anymore.

The choice is yours.

 

[Magdlyn]

Hi, I'm sorry you're having a hard time. I'm breaking down your wall of text into paragraphs. I understand you were venting about a very difficult heart rending situation, but paragraphs make it easier for the members to read and respond.

So almost a year ago my husband agreed to start the ball rolling on opening our marriage on my side. He wishes to remain mono with zero interest in others.

To start it I joined a dating website and started talking to men, though I am also interested in women. After a few months of talking I realized I'm not interested in hook ups at all but more meaningful relationships with others. So I started trying to sell him on poly.

Maybe it worries him more, instead of just physical, I could end up loving someone else.

Of course, that's the rub! And that is always a risk in an open relationship. It's perfectly natural to fall in love with someone you're having sex with. Nature has designed it so. There are several bonding hormones released during sex that cause attachment, infatuation, if not outright love. Love doesn't happen right away. But deep attraction and a kind of obsession we call new relationship energy (aka infatuation) often does.

Some people can separate sex from feelings, but many, if not most, can not. However, if you are truly polyamorous, you will remain in love with your first partner even if you fall for another, or more than one other. On the other hand, if you and your husband have become incompatible, getting sex elsewhere won't heal your relationship with your husband. Maybe growing apart was inevitable, and opening your relationship was an idea for a bandaid, to keep you together?... it doesn't work that way.

He reluctantly agreed and I let myself actually start falling for the man I talk to the most, and ended up exclusively speaking to him.

So, that's someone different from the tattoo artist? What happened to him? You don't mention him again. Did you meet him and start having sex with him, dating him?

Several weeks ago after getting a new tattoo my artist started texting me. I had been discussing open marriages with him, and even though he isn't in one, he likes me. I explained ethical nonmonogomy to him and informed him that us hooking up would mean him cheating on his wife, so it wasn't going to happen.

I did keep talking to him though, but not with any intentions of it ever going anywhere. I was actually trying to figure out how to end it without losing him as my artist. Fast forward his wife checks the phone records, sees hundred+ texts and flips out. starts calling me and texting me. and I maintained we were just friends. Even though he was actively trying to have sex with me, it's not my place to tell her.

Eventually she found his ex girlfriend through his phone records, they broke up about a month ago. And she left me alone for the most part. I did lose him though and it sucks.

I have been trying to be super open and honest with my husband throughout. he knew I was talking to the artist because, since it's someone I actually know, I wanted him to be aware. He knew I wasn't interested romantically because of his being married , he just wanted me to drop him all together.

I could tell hearing about it bothered him. However, when the crap hit the fan, he and I ended up falling out over it. He was sneaking into my phone at night and reading the texts I would have shown him had he asked, which I found out while I was telling him about the wife flipping out on me. I felt betrayed because it's really hard for me to be so forthcoming all the time but I'm freaking trying.

After it was all said and done he said he can't handle polyamory, he isn't sold on it, and doesn't understand why I want to be with other people. I literally haven't even taken a physical step. it's all been talking. and now he's just shut it down again. We talked about divorce but neither of us wants it.

It sucks because I still want it and I'm finding it really hard to be open and honest again after feeling so betrayed by him. I'm feeling increasingly disconnected and isolated by all this because I can't talk to anyone. The only one that know is my best friend and she thinks it's morally and biblically wrong, so I can't even discuss it with her. I feel so trapped and just sad.

You do sound very alone. You feel betrayed by your husband, let down by your best friend, and annoyed by the tattoo artist who used to be your friend. And probably hurt and angry at his spying wife.

First thing I'd do is let go of the tattoo artist. You can find another good artist. You don't need him and his cheating and his drama queen wife.

Polyamory can't work without open communication and trust. Your h shouldn't be sneaking looks at your phone. It does sound like he's not ready for you to be poly. You can't force him to continue with you. If you really feel like you are poly and need to practice it, and want to stay with your husband, you could give it more time. Get more educated. Have either of you read any books about the common pitfalls in opening a relationship to polyamory? There is a book called More Than Two, which is also a website. Another favorite book of many is called Opening Up.

And again, what happened to the guy you met online?

 

[lunabunny]

May I ask WHY your husband was the one to "start the ball rolling" regarding you having other relationships?

What did he see it achieving - for him? for you?

Did YOU initially suggest it, or let your husband know you needed more/different/better sex? Variety? (You say HE was never interested in seeking other partners for himself, which is why I ask.)

**********

I don't blame you for feeling hurt and betrayed, by more than one person in this situation.

For starters, it wasn't even YOU who suggested opening the marriage (if I've got that right). Then, your husband put all these parameters around what kind of connections he was willing for you to seek. You did the right thing... and took it slow... building emotional connections and friendships with others, giving your husband time to adjust.

But he betrayed your privacy by sneaking peeks at your messages! And has now shut down the whole deal because he's not comfortable. Not only does it seem your husband does not know what he wants, or is comfortable with... he has caused you much emotional upheaval along the way.

I would not necessarily describe the artist's wife as a "drama queen", though that whole scene must have been rough. After all, SHE was being cheated on, and must've had her suspicions. (They weren't in an ethically open relationship.) Doesn't make her actions right, but they're understandable.

Still, this has all left you hurt, feeling betrayed and alone. And I get why! It doesn't seem like YOU have done anything "wrong" in this scenario... all that angst and turmoil, and you hadn't even yet begun to actually sleep with anyone besides your husband (again, if I have that right.)

If you really want to stay with your husband after this, I believe you'll have to do some soul-searching - both as an individual AND as a couple - in order to uncover the root of your incompatibilities... and what you each believe you can live with into the future. All this emotional "to'ing and fro'ing" doesn't do any good for the stability of the marriage OR anyone's mental stability.

 

[Voluptuouschef]

Sorry about the wall

I tend to forget to paragraph for easier comprehension plus yes I was feeling very alone in tgat moment. Thank you for the support and I see a number of questions so I will try to answer them.

Online Bf is very much around, his work has been busy so we've had a hard time lately communicating and honestly I think we've kind of hit a wall. We've been talking almost everyday for almost a year, I feel very deeply for him but I'm ready to meet him and see if we even have the same level of chemistry as we seem to via electronic communication. I want to meet him so much and be with him physically. He was not thrilled with the tattoo issue either but only because he thought there was potential for me to get hurt and sucked up in someone else's drama. He has an open dadt marriage so there is no concern of that on his end.

I introduced the topic of open marriage to my husband because I have bdsm kinks that he does not and he works so much I was just very lonely at that point and thought what if I find some company? We discussed it from April until June when he gave me the go ahead to start just talking. He requested not to be informed about whom I was speaking to like no info on them because he didn't need to know. Around October I started introducing the idea of poly to him because I've never been one to sleep around. I've only been with two men and realized I couldn't extend that list without love being involved.

I have let go of the artist and actually met a female artist who's super cool and I love her aesthetic. The wife was a drama queen definitely... she spilled so much of it on me, like I somehow became some floozy trying to steal her husband, and I couldn't completely correct her without betraying him so yeah I ended up blocking both of them.

No nothing physical has happened, no dating, no touching, nothing.

Divorce is off the table. Our 14year wedding anniversary is in 2 weeks. We have a kid, we are generally happy and the sex can be fantastic... I am just not being satisfied in other ways, our love languages are different, Emotionally and kinkily. And yes being his other half can be such a lonely thing.. but that's kind of just always been my life and usually I'm good on my own. It's just been a rough year and a half.

I did read more then two and sent him the podcast stations for it because he doesn't have time to read. I also sent him other poly links I found that I listened to and found informative. He listened to half of one and said it was rambling, then lapsed into silence every time I brought up other ones. I know I can't force him so that leaves me with waiting... I'm afraid I'll lose my online lover before even getting to meet. I'm afraid that if I push it my husband will shutdown the talking as well. I actually think he's forgotten a little. I don't talk via texts, because I'm smarter then my ex tat guy I use kik. When my husband specified he didn't want to know I figured that would keep it from under his eyes. My phone not dinging randomly no texts popping up while he's looking at a picture or something. Out of sight out of mind he may have forgotten.

I'm also a little concerned about my self control if I ended up meeting with someone I connect with for platonic hanging. But I have this deep desire to explore this part of myself that I've kept tied down not fully understanding it until now and... now I can't do anything about it but feel like a caged animal. Caged, lonely wife. Thats me

 

[KC43]

I'm sorry you're struggling with this right now. It sounds like your husband agreed to you seeing other people, but it wasn't an enthusiastic agreement, and now that he's seen the potential for drama and for you getting hurt, he doesn't want to deal with it.

One minor thing that stood out in your original post is that you said your husband sneaked into your phone and read your texts, and that you would have shown him the texts if he'd asked. While it's admirable that you want to be completely open and transparent with him, I would hope you wouldn't have shown him the texts without asking the other person's consent first. Otherwise, it would have been a pretty major invasion of their privacy.

It sucks that you got pulled into drama with your tattoo artist, when you were explicitly trying to *avoid* that drama by not getting romantically involved with him. I hope you're able to get past that.

I don't have any great advice to offer about the situation with your husband, but I hope that things will work out.

 

[Magdlyn]

Thanks for more information, Voluptuous Chef.

I was once in a similar situation in my marriage. I kept my true sexuality under wraps for a long time, to maintain the marriage. We had 3 children. We had a "comfortable life." My h was a "good guy" in many ways. But. We had other issues besides my poly nature, and after much "trying," and couples therapy, we finally split. After 30 years together!

My ex also worked long hours and had a long commute. I am poly, I also had kinky cravings, and was/am bisexual/pansexual to boot.

It is not fun to live with a person with whom you get along in many ways, and the sex is even good to great often, but there are still major disconnects which make it impossible to feel fulfilled and authentic as a person, as a woman.

Since you've set aside talking, for now, it seems your h is willing to sort of sweep it all under the rug and pretend it never happened. And you feel all you can do is "wait." Well, how long are you willing to wait? Another 6 months? A year? 10 years, 20?

Only you can decide. But remember, we only live once. This is YOUR life. Do you really want to spend it feeling you're just drifting and wasting your time, when you long to explore things with your online lover (and/or other potential lovers) in the flesh?

 

[Ravenscroft]

As this situation contains so much common "I'm poly now!" error, it deserves detailed examination.

He has an open dadt marriage

How exactly have you verified this? If valid, how will you ensure being promptly updated if it should happen to change?

Often, DADT means you won't be able to go out in public, because "someone might see" & that could potentially possibly undercut the "happily married" facade.

his work has been busy so we've had a hard time lately communicating

You shift too easily from "his problem" to "our problem," which IME often indicates someone who repeatedly gets dragged into "bad melodrama" situations. Might be good to keep this in mind & tread lightly.

But in any case, you likely realize you're fooling yourself: even if he went without sleep & worked 24/7, he'd be messaging you multiple times every day if his interest wasn't waning.

Online Bf ... my online lover

Far before "my lover," I wouldn't call some woman I'd never met in person "my girlfriend" except maybe in the sense used by some women to refer to close female friends, meaning "my buddy." Calling him your "b/f" inflates "online flirtation with an interesting stranger" to "on-going stable IRL relationship," which is... well, too much.

I've only been with two men

Is your intent to

• step out into the world, meet interesting people without fear of "where it might (eventually) lead," proceed in no rush but with grace & ease, learn to interact closely with others outside the "mono bubble," remain open to (perhaps in a year, or two) becoming aware of those few who might possibly be worthy of deeper exploration, devote attention to the best few while remaining connected to the newly created social sphere

or rather to

• leap out of Monogamism, quickly snag one (or one for love + one for "kinky") that seems like he might (sort of, maybe, mostly, a little at least, sometimes) suit your momentary "needs," then leap back to being the hinge of a vee, safely under cover of "marriage+", & cease any further exploration or social contact with anyone else you might find as attractive, perhaps more

My intuitions say it's going to go one way or the other.

I ask because I get the impression that your apparent lack of real-world relational experience may overwhelm you, causing you to make poor (perhaps disastrous) NRE-fuelled decisions, either putting your marriage at direct risk or causing you to run precipitiously back to monogamy having never actually experienced anything close to polyamory but damning poly as a hoax.

I feel that (right this moment) you do actually WANT to experience responsible nonmonogamy, but are going to have to become VERY aware of WHAT it is you wish to accomplish & to find, rather than just thrash unproductively around in "we'll see what happens."

As well, you probably ought to become aware of what it is you are willing to give up -- for instance, end your marriage but remain lovers & BFFs, or remain married but get your own apartment -- in order to "go poly."

As well, it likely must be either "my marriage stays, no matter what" or "I am going to get a new playbuddy/fuckbuddy, no matter what."

I have let go of the artist and actually met a female artist who's super cool

IMNSHO, stop dating "artists" unless they've got a show at MOMA. Heck, most "artists" will tell you to not get involved with "artists." (And IME "photographers" are even worse & far more common. ) They too easily tend to be flaky & unreliable, with messy & even chaotic lives -- recall that "attraction to bad melodrama" mentioned above.

he doesn't have time to read.

Are you making imaginary excuses for him... or is he making imaginary excuses for himself... or has he ACTUALLY TOLD YOU THIS?

Please choose one, & discuss this here.

In any case: Nope. Unless he reads at less than a fourth-grade level, he has time to read, ESPECIALLY about something that is directly impacting his life AND has the potential to end his marriage.

I'm an assembly mechanic. I just completed reading a 300-page business communications book. I read it only at work, during lunch & breaks, so less than an hour a day. It took less than two weeks.

As well, you CANNOT simply bury him with podcasts & URLs, then pretend that you are "communicating" with him. You WILL need to converse with him constantly, & deeply, & honestly, & forthrightly -- & if you're at all serious about any of your claims, that should already be happening NOW.

Instead, I'm sensing a cycle of browbeating, arm-twisting, guilt volleying ("he sucks!" followed by "I suck!", back & forth like bad tennis), impotent whinging, & stirring yourself up to inflict some Bad Melodrama on that big meany you married:

I know I can't force him
that leaves me with waiting
I'm afraid
I'll lose my online lover before even getting to meet.
my husband will shutdown the talking as well.
I'm concerned about my self control
I have this deep desire
this part of myself I've kept tied down
I can't do anything
like a caged animal.
Caged, lonely wife.

Either stop taking yourself/needs so grimly serious, step back & figure out exactly where you are, where you want to end up, how you're going to set out in hopes of getting there, & what changes you are going to make to "correct course" (or maybe change course entirely) on the journey

...or admit you're done with your marriage & ready to sabotage it & even are kinda laying the explosives already. Leaving it to "chance" or "fate" or "God" or "the Universe" is utter nonsense -- you are on the verge of getting whatever it is you work toward, & "work" includes slacking off, walking away from your responsibilities.

Take responsibility, or at least accept that you actively participated in whatever happens next.

 

[Voluptuouschef]

Ravenscroft

Thank you for addressing random sentences out of context did you actually read the whole thread?, you do have some valid points but more errors then I care to address sentence by sentence myself. I will correct the most glaring to me at least.
Artist = tattoo artist as discussed in detail in my and others posts.
If I want to refer to my online lover as my BF for the sake of expediency then I can. He lives in a diff state and I'm on an island so yes we would be able to go out regardless of his arrangement. His wife has lovers as well. Perhaps things are waiting or maybe he has a job like mine where I literally can't even touch my phone for hours, I should have said work has been busy for both of us.
My H says himself that he doesn't have time to read and would rather listen to podcasts and audio books. Carpenter.
Your "senses" are way off. So far off.
Everyone else thank you for the support.

 

[Voluptuouschef]

Kc43

Thank you for the response and acknowledging my struggle with losing my tat Artist! It's been surprisingly difficult because he does beautiful work, he's actually one of the best on the island and I've spent more then 15 hours under his gun. And we were friends. I don't trust easily or let people in easily and I did with him. But his wife has banned me as a customer and friend even after I clarified something she misread and was thinking I'll of me. She apologized but too much damage has been done for me to comfortably return to him. I'm actually sad about that loss. But the lady I met seems has beautiful work and is very genuine so I'll be okay I think, tattoo wise lol.
When the tattoo guy and I first started texting I informed him I'd be talking to my husband about everything because we are aiming for transparency and he was a little weirded out but didn't say no don't. Generally with a friend i would ask if I can disclose our talks because they are usually private.
Drama is not something I like or look for I avoid it because it stresses me out. I don't try to create it and usually tell people to leave me out of it. It's why I blocked them. She just kept bringing drama to me and I'm like I have nothing to do with your marriage why are you texting and calling me 8 times before 9am? I wonder if she was doing that to his ex gf too? They actually were sleeping together for months and fully dating and travelling sooo... drama queen. Maybe the gf already blocked her, and I was trying to be supportive because her marriage is falling apart and her life and I felt bad for her.

 

[Voluptuouschef]

Mag

Can I message you directly?

 

[Magdlyn]

Can I message you directly?

Sure. (My friends call me Mags.)

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Voluptuouschef,

I'm sorry to hear that your husband has decided he does not want you to do poly anymore. It doesn't sound like there's much you can do about it, I can't think of any way to convince him other than the stuff you've already tried. I don't think divorce is an option for you, so the best road remaining is to give poly up and move it to the back of your mind where it won't bother you so much. Another road is to have an affair without telling your husband, but that would be risky. I guess there's a third road; namely, channeling all your thoughts about poly into this forum where you can talk about it freely even if you can't put it into practice.

I know that none of the above three roads are great alternatives for you. I'm very sorry your husband won't consent to poly. And I'm sorry he snooped into your phone, that damaged your trust in him, I think.

With sympathy,
Kevin T.

 

[sexyserb]

Divorce is off the table. Our 14year wedding anniversary is in 2 weeks. We have a kid, we are generally happy and the sex can be fantastic... I am just not being satisfied in other ways, our love languages are different, Emotionally and kinkily. And yes being his other half can be such a lonely thing.. but that's kind of just always been my life and usually I'm good on my own. It's just been a rough year and a half.

I did read more then two and sent him the podcast stations for it because he doesn't have time to read. I also sent him other poly links I found that I listened to and found informative. He listened to half of one and said it was rambling, then lapsed into silence every time I brought up other ones. I know I can't force him so that leaves me with waiting... I'm afraid I'll lose my online lover before even getting to meet. I'm afraid that if I push it my husband will shutdown the talking as well. I actually think he's forgotten a little. I don't talk via texts, because I'm smarter then my ex tat guy I use kik. When my husband specified he didn't want to know I figured that would keep it from under his eyes. My phone not dinging randomly no texts popping up while he's looking at a picture or something. Out of sight out of mind he may have forgotten.

I'm also a little concerned about my self control if I ended up meeting with someone I connect with for platonic hanging. But I have this deep desire to explore this part of myself that I've kept tied down not fully understanding it until now and... now I can't do anything about it but feel like a caged animal. Caged, lonely wife. Thats me

You are headed for a trainwreck. So lets start at the beginning. it does not matter one iota who brought up poly first. That is history. Right now you have spent a good amount of time and effort trying to convince and manipulate your husband into an open marriage of whatever configuration you want to call it. And you apparent;y have read the books so you should know that your odds of making this work with a partner dead set against it are minimal at best.

So divorce is off the table. Really?? Who says. ?? Are you assuming he will not divorce you regardless of what you do??? i suggest you think that one again. And how about a few questions
(1) if you blow up your marriage because you want it opened can you support your child in the same manner as they live now??
(2) have you investigated the divorce laws in your state??? If you are in the US there are some states where if your husband divorces you because you are having sex with other men you will not even get what you would otherwise. Most of the word calls it infidelity.
if you are that convinced that no matter what happens your continued insistence on opening the relationship will not result in him having enough of it then go right ahead and ignore the possibility.

Next, he told you he did not want the phone beeping and that he did not want to know about the other men you are TALKING to. Unless I missed it, did you confirm that means that if it goes from TALKING to SEX that he still wants to not know about that???? Forget the tatoo guy, does your husband know that you are just waiting for the opportunity to have sex with your boyfriend that he thinks is a TALKING relationship only right now.??? Do you plan on telling him or asking if he still does not want to know if it progresses past online???? If the answer to that one is NO , you are moving into CHEATING realm and planning on using the excuse that who knows how long ago he told you he did not want to know who you are TALKING to.

You say you don't want casual sex, so if you hook up with your boyfriend how long do you keep hubby in the dark??? or how long do you before you give him the respect to ASK if he still wants to not know. or does hubby never get to change his mind about that and only you can move the goalposts.

And lastly, it appears that you are convincing yourself that if you "accidently" fall on another mans penis because you can't resist on a 'platonic" meet up, then I guess hubby will just have to understand that too.

Time for you to get into the real world. Everyone does not get everything they want. If you want to put your personal satisfaction about having your family intact, that is absolutely your right. But I have BTDT and I doubt if your circumstances or ability to care for your kid or kids is the same as mine.
You do not sound like an old woman so do not buy into this crap that you must have this now at all costs. Your child will be out on his or her own in three or four years and you can revisit this way before you are old.

Notice I have not bored you with my story, which you can read if you want to because your husband is not my husband. No one here who is projecting their situation onto you knows how YOUR husband is going to react. You have already told us it is not good.

And if you have read the books as you say you should already know that the percentage of men that will participate in what you are claiming you "need" is not very large. If i were you i would get a therapist that can help you work though this before you blow up your marriage. You have been at it apparently from every angle. Either throw in the towel or get off the dating web sites.

 

[Voluptuouschef]

Sexysurb

Hello, I have read your story and while your midlife crisis was a bit... extreme, I did understand the needs you were feeling but also Hero's reaction as I can see my husband's reactions being similar.
To correct some things, we have one kid, seven years until she is of age to go off on her own, but we are in Hawaii and the culture here is often to stay with your parents for a few years working and going to college rather then leaving. So it could be quite a while.
When I said divorce is off the table I didn't mean not a possibility at all so I could do anything, I meant that neither of us is wanting to divorce atm. Neither of us is unhappy enough for that to be a thought and this is after literally talking about it after he took poly off the table. He doesn't want it and neither do I. Could i afford to support our kid alone? Not in the way she lives now no but regardless of our marriage her love and support wouldn't change because he isn't a dick like that no matter what he would support her the same as he has and while I do make less I take care of a fare share of our bills it's not like we are rich and I don't need to work, I do need to and do also because I'm not suited to not working. I tried it I was miserable I need to work, plus what a waste of time and money it would have been becoming a pastry chef to not actually do it.
He never actually said he didn't want my phone beeping just that he didn't want any details on the men i talk to, only talking nothing else. But knowing him and how he reacts to me getting tons of texts from my friends female or males I opted for complete privacy on that front.
Never have I considered taking it to a physical realm without his approval or knowledge that's the point of an open marriage, being open. I don't want to cheat, and don't plan to. I brought up platonic meeting because my BF has suggested we just meet and hang out platonically and that he was okay with that... I don't trust myself for that.
No I'm not manipulating or canoodling or poking or bringing it up on the daily or insisting on an open marriage. It's been a year since I started talking to other men after months of randomly discussing it to get my husband's go ahead and I was good with just talking until I realized I had no desire to go out and fuck every guy I can find. Until I realized my desire for ethical nonmonogomy. And even after that in the last six months we have talked about it 3 or 4 times. And the open communication until recently was making our relationship stronger.
Things have gotten quiet since the snooping incident and we have gotten busy so it's not a focus. I have been off the websites for about 6 months. I literally just talk to the one guy now, and I'm too emotionally attached to him to bring it up and have to let him go. I've mentioned him before so my husband is semi aware I just think since it's all contained in the kik app he doesn't think about it.
I think I covered everything. Thank you for your reply

 

[sexyserb]

Chef,

Thank you for the clarifications and I apologize for the mistake on the age of your child. That being said, I am going to add to what I said to you based on your response.
One piece of smart advice I got here was to accept that my old marriage was dead. It died when I repeatedly told sat my husband down and told him I wanted to act on my fantasies and wanted to fuck other men. If you read most of the well known and accepted expert relationship books, most men will put their partners or wives actually having sex with another man right up there at the TOP of the list of dealbreakers. Your husband is now in a marriage where he now will not know when the brick will drop on his head again or whether or not you will act on it. Since you say his reaction in some ways resembles Hero’s is why I bring that up.
You mention “ethical non monogamy” . I’m sorry honey, and I know it is just my opinion, but there is nothing ethical about being so involved with another man that you are too afraid to be in the same zip code and keeping that fact secret. You are making the decisions for him, but its really as you said because you know if you come totally clean you most likely will be asked to totally end contact with this guy.
How do you think you are going to totally commit to your husband while carrying on this EA ( at this point). Don’t you think that may be a major stumbling block to your transitioning back to a monogamous marriage if you decide that is what you are going to do. Right now you are trying to “cake eat”.
Now I nor no one else here knows your hubby, but it seems real strange to me that he is asking absolutely no questions. You say he has an ideas about this guy. Does he know you are being asked to meet physically??? And does he know that you are “afraid” to do that and why.??? Right now, what you are doing is analogous to having an affair, cutting it off, and then still staying in contact with your affair partner as “friends” That does not work and you will be hard pressed to find any credible therapists that recommend anything other than no contact.
I would not take his “silence” as a totally positive sign. You might want to read a thread by SurferJenn. While since you have a child I doubt if your husband will do what hers did, but do not underestimate what can happen if this blows up.

Finally lets address your online boyfriend. Now maybe he is a candidate for “sainthood”, but wanting to meet physically for any reason while your husband thinks there is only phone talk with any other men, is really laughable to me. Hanging out alone platonically after carrying on what seems to be a torrid online love affair, which I am guessing includes some sexual aspects. I hope you do not believe he only wants to keep it platonic.

You’ve made all the right moves by getting off the websites. But you cannot rebuild your new marriage, a monogamous one that your husband has said is his only choice , by hanging on to a secret that he has no idea how serious the involvement is. I do find it very strange that he has an inkling on who this guy is and says nothing. To me, that means he is putting his tail between his legs and hoping this goes away.

All I am saying is that your husband being “quiet” is not for certain a good thing.
I learned that the hard way. Thankfully I came back to earth before he was too detached. I know it is hard, and I just fucked up again recently by doing something really stupid. I hope you do the smart thing. You can ask anything you want here on by PM.

 

[Magdlyn]

Hello, I have read your story and while your midlife crisis was a bit... extreme, I did understand the needs you were feeling, but also Hero's reaction... my husband's reactions being similar.

To correct some things: we have one kid, seven years until she is of age to go off on her own, but we are in Hawaii and the culture here is often to stay with your parents for a few years working and going to college rather then leaving. So it could be quite a while.

So you're in Hawai'i and your online bf is perhaps, on the US mainland? So meeting would entail one of you getting on a plane... did you imagine you'd fly over, leaving the care of your daughter to school, husband, friends and family?

Or did you imagine you'd get bf over to Hawai'i to stay in a hotel where you could visit him and do kinky stuff? Is he already your Dom or sub? Have you been having cybersex or kink, having homework to do, etc.? Just wondering how far you've gone. If there is cybersex/kink happening, you've already cheated... You don't have your husband's consent. You did have his consent for kink/sex earlier? Grudging consent? Since he is vanilla. But somehow he imagined you could do kinky sex with another man with no feelings involved?

I think that is impossible. Unless you're just "sceneing" at a club or private party with random new people, and a good dungeon master/mistress to keep people safe, there needs to be a relationship including deep trust, when you do kink. It can turn dangerous if you don't have trust and respect, and know your safeword will be effective.

When I said divorce is off the table I didn't mean not a possibility at all, so I could do anything. I meant that neither of us is wanting to divorce atm. Neither of us is unhappy enough for that to be a thought, and this is after literally talking about it after he took poly off the table...

Could I afford to support our kid alone? Not in the way she lives now, no, but regardless of our marriage, her love and support wouldn't change, because he isn't a dick like that. No matter what, he would support her the same as he has.

While I do make less, I take care of a fair share of our bills. It's not like we are rich and I don't need to work. I do need to, and do also because I'm not suited to not working. I tried it. I was miserable. I need to work. Plus, what a waste of time and money it would have been becoming a pastry chef to not actually do it.

He never actually said he didn't want my phone beeping, just that he didn't want any details on the men I talk to (only talking, nothing else). But knowing him, and how he reacts to me getting tons of texts from my friends
(female or males), I opted for complete privacy on that front.

You say you are lonely and feel isolated? But your husband objects to you getting texts from platonic friends?? Are you allowed to leave the house? Do you get any time to yourself? You work outside the home shorter hours than him, you have an outside job baking, but then you're on kid duty, and once she's in bed you're stuck home? And when hubby is home, you're discouraged from texting with platonic friends? No wonder you feel lonely, if this is the case.

So you sneak text with bf on kik, which is more... "discreet." Discretion is needed in cheating situations. It's not needed in ethical open relationships. True, poly couples do often have agreements to not text others when they are having quality time, focused date time, with each other, but they can and do text friends or lovers when it's just casual hang out time.

I text my other partner(s) when my anchor partner is sleeping. She sleeps later in the morning than I do. She texts her bf most evenings from 5:30-10pm, on and off. If we want to have her be focused on me, she'll tell her bf she is getting off her phone, to give me attention (if we want to talk, have sex, watch a movie, go out to eat, etc.).

Often when she's texting her bf, I will chat with friends or lovers myself.

Never have I considered taking it to a physical realm without his approval or knowledge. That's the point of an open marriage, being open. I don't want to cheat, and don't plan to. I brought up platonic meeting because my BF has suggested we just meet and hang out platonically, and that he was okay with that... I don't trust myself for that.

So, again, are you having cybersex or kink, and do you consider that cheating? Would your h consider it cheating if he knew?

No, I'm not manipulating or canoodling or poking or bringing it up on the daily, or insisting on an open marriage. It's been a year since I started talking to other men, after months of randomly discussing it, to get my husband's go-ahead.

I was good with just talking, until I realized I had no desire to go out and fuck every guy I can find; until I realized my desire for ethical non-monogamy. And even after that, in the last six months, we have talked about it 3 or 4 times. The open communication until recently was making our relationship stronger.

Things have gotten quiet since the snooping incident. We have gotten busy so it's not a focus. I have been off the websites for about 6 months. I literally just talk to the one guy now, and I'm too emotionally attached to him to bring it up [to husband] and have to let him go. I've mentioned him before so my husband is semi-aware. I just think since it's all contained in the kik app he doesn't think about it.

So, your husband thinks you're not talking to any other dating prospects now. But you are. You're talking to your mainland guy. You're hiding it "discreetly" in kik to keep it on the downlow.

Now what? As Kevin said above, there are choices. Telling your h that you are still speaking to the bf, because you've become too emotionally attached, seems like the first step, if you WANT to do ethical non-monogamy. You like this guy a lot, you want to have real sex/kink with him.

If you tell your h, he will insist you give up bf, if you want to stay married to him. And since you snuck chatting/cybersexing behind hubby's back, he will lose trust in you. He might want full access to your phone now, for a period of time, just to want to stay in a MONO relationship.

You two might need couple's therapy to heal. You might find, in therapy, that since your h can't provide to enough of your needs, you will have to divorce. It's never easy to divorce, but nowadays people often aren't willing to settle for an unhappy marriage, where you're basically deeply miserable, and both would be better off either single or with someone, or several someones, else.

Couples do grow apart. I met my ex h when I was 19 and married at 22! My h and I grew in different directions over 3 decades. I had twisted myself to meet his needs at the expense of my own, even from the start. I was deeply unhappy, and he wasn't any too happy either.

IMO, you don't need to feel "selfish" leaving your h if many of your needs for feeling cared for are not being met. We have to take care of ourselves. We only live once. The world is a beautiful place with many adventures to be had. Life is too short, imo, to live inauthentically.

Just one word of advice, take it or leave it (take or leave anything I've said!): If you plan to keep living in Hawai'i, get a local bf. Long distance relationships are very hard. And yes, you may not even have chemistry if/when you meet LD online bf in person. Also, since your daughter is very young, you don't have time or money to be dating someone on the other side of the Pacific.

 

[sexyserb]

Mags just put it pretty clearly Chef.

Right now, unless you tell your husband you are on KIK with your boyfriend you are CHEATING. Hubby needs to know
(1) you are doing this
(2) where this person is if he thinks you are not planning to meet
And he needs to be asked if he is still OK with DADT on this.

Now if Mags is correct about him being on mainland US, a five hour plane ride, we’re to believe your boyfriend wants you to fly there for a “platoniic” get together. Really????? And how would you go about telling hubby where you were going?? Lie to him and then tell him he said DADT if he catches you? So I am maybe guessing b oh friend is not that far away.

The only place I disagree maybe with Mags is if you get a boyfriend closer however you do it, maybe you might want to also tell hubby that too.

As she said, you can take or leave the advice, but you are headed in the wrong direction right now.

 

[Voluptuouschef]

Mags and Serb

The BF is in the mainland. However a work project is supposed to put him here for a few months. Not sure exactly when. So the platonic hanging would be like a beach outing when he is here.
Yes to the cyber/kink though not as frequently recently, but yes. I don't consider it cheating because I was given permission from the go, when he said he couldn't be okay with polyamory we were talking about me actually going and dating and being with others. There was never a stop what your doing talk more of a, I can't go along with additional kind of chat.
I do agree with your advice about telling him, and would like to get back to open communication.
No I'm not a shut it and he isn't crazy or anything like that. I don't know how much of my story you guys have read but in different threads I mentioned the cheating that took place 6 years ago. During that time there was a text from the guy saying stuff and ending with I love you that my husband saw pop up on my phone when I'd left it behind. So he's very sensitive to my texting like when I'm talking with friends he will frequently read over my shoulder, I tell him not to when it's private. Like they are disclosing personal info, he always asks when I'm typing for a while who I'm talking to. Stuff like that so yeah obviously he doesn't trust me and I pointed that out in our last talk and he confirmed that all this has stirred back up his resentment that I loved someone else.
Honestly if he ever actually fully agreed and wanted to be poly with me I would look for someone here, but having the distance is a good thing for me, it means I don't have to worry about running into them or having him try to meet up when I'm busy with my very busy hectic life. I'm only in here replying right now because I'm off today lol.

 

[Magdlyn]

The BF is in the mainland [California]. However, a work project is supposed to put him here [Oahu] for a few months. Not sure exactly when. So the platonic hanging would be like a beach outing, when he is here.

Yes to the cyber/kink, though not as frequently recently, but yes. I don't consider it cheating because I was given permission from the go. When he said he couldn't be okay with polyamory, we were talking about me actually going and dating and being with others. There was never a: "Stop what you're doing!" talk, more of a, "I can't go along with additional [sex activities or love]," kind of chat.

I do agree with your advice about telling him, and would like to get back to open communication.

No, I'm not a shut in, and he isn't crazy or anything like that. I don't know how much of my story you guys have read, but in different threads I mentioned the cheating that took place 6 years ago.

During that time there was a text from the guy saying stuff, and ending with
"I love you," that my husband saw pop up on my phone, when I'd left it behind. So he's very sensitive to my texting. Like when I'm talking with friends he will frequently read over my shoulder. I tell him not to when it's private. Like, they are disclosing personal info.

He always asks when I'm typing for a while who I'm talking to. Stuff like that. So yeah, obviously he doesn't trust me. I pointed that out in our last talk, and he confirmed that all this has stirred back up his resentment that I loved someone else.

Honestly if he ever actually fully agreed and wanted to be poly with me, I would look for someone here [in Oahu], but having the distance is a good thing for me. It means I don't have to worry about running into them, or having him try to meet up [with them] when I'm busy with my very busy hectic life. I'm only in here replying right now because I'm off today lol.

Yes, your life is very busy. Which is one reason we wonder why you feel a need to have a DADT affair, begrudgingly agreed to. You seem far too busy to start up an ethical second love/sex relationship. And your husband seems to busy to be eager to do child care alone while you are off doing kink and/or sex with your Cali "bf."

I had forgotten I'd looked into one of your earlier threads... and responded. So now I've read an refreshed my memory.

Timeline as I understand it:

Bisexual
Raised conservative Christian
Virgin until 21
Had gf and bfs in school but no "sex" (could clarify what "sex" means, just intercourse?)
Husband is first lover for actual "sex"
Daughter is now 11
Had affair of 6 month duration when daughter was 4
When your husband found out, you asked to move affair partner into your and husband's house (partly to save money on rent/mortgage since homes are very expensive in Oahu)
Only had sex with affair partner once
You are now 32 (daughter was born soon after your marriage and first intercourse)
Was stay at home mom til daughter was in first grade
After that, went to school to learn how to be pastry chef
You were assaulted/raped by husband's stepbrother not that long ago (less than a year?), you didn't fight, you froze
Despite earlier martial arts training for former job, you couldn't fight off attacker, didn't struggle, said no, that's it
Your attack made you wonder about your BDSM "submissive nature"
You did some talk therapy after the attack but say it didn't help
Now you want a "Dom," imagining it will help you get a "sense of control" of your own submissiveness back
Sex with husband pretty frequent, 3-4 times a week
Husband is mono
Husband has reluctantly agreed to you "talking" to other men on dating sites
Not clear as to if "talking" includes cybersex/kink, but you do that anyway
You are a talker, husband is more the silent type (incompatibity)
Husband is "vanilla" in sex (incompatibility)
So you talked and talked til he was worn down and agreed to you having intimate talk with men on dating sites
You settled on one man, "bf"
Now your online "bf" may be coming to Oahu for work, for several weeks
You want to meet him in person, you want sex and kink but have a hard time admitting it
You want to renegotiate from "talking only" to other men, to dating and fucking them
Husband is reluctant to consent to this change
You feel like a "terrible wife"
If your h doesn't agree to you meeting and having sex with "bf," you might well cheat
You have a demanding start up career doing baking
Your husband works two jobs, a regular one and a start up of his own
You don't want to leave daughter with family (because there are rapists in it?) or with a hired sitter. Why?
You and husband don't date
When you're together, which is rare, you flop on the couch
He doesn't talk to you much, he shuts down, changes subject
But you talk and talk, "at him" maybe, not with him
Husband is still so upset from your affair of 7 years ago, he snoops over your shoulder when you're talking to friends
Husband refuses to do couple's counseling

I'm sorry, but this sounds pretty messed up. We who are experienced in poly well know that doing the "marriage in trouble, add more people" is a recipe for disaster.