Communication Workshop

PollyPocket said:
My need to revisit things in order to make sense of it sends her completely around the bend. After it is discussed once, it is officially done, never to be broached again.
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Oh geez, this is so PN and me. He needs to revisit over and over... same words and questions... just slightly different each time we talk about something. Drives me crazy too! :eek:

PollyPocket said:
I took the unusual step of writing them both an open letter, where I laid out all of my perspectives. This seemed to work for everyone, although the ensuing instant message session that C and I had turned ugly as she again thought I was discussing things too much, or more to the point, 'rehashing'.
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A very good idea to write a letter. Sometimes emailing back and forth makes all the difference to us if there is lots of heated emotion to dampen down... admittedly from me.

Nothing wrong with rehashing, but perhaps she needs longer breaks between talking? Maybe you could be more respectful that she doesn't want to go over something again right now?

PollyPocket said:
Is this the time you just pay for a therapist and leave the discussion out of the relationship? How else can two different styles meet in the middle? How do you tell someone that you need to move past things by processing and revisiting?
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A therapist might help. We don't have one or use one because we get there in the end when we let things settle before revisiting, usually. We have used one in the past, however. It sounds like you know you have two communication styles. Have you talked about that? What differences you have around communication and what works for you both? It could help shed some light on what you can do to communicate more effectively.

Really though, the whole thing is an ongoing process. It needs to be said that with more partners involved, more communication needs to happen!
 
redpepper said:
Nothing wrong with rehashing, but perhaps she needs longer breaks between talking? Maybe you could be more respectful that she doesn't want to go over something again right now?
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Another thing I have noticed other groupings do is have it scheduled, like work, almost, once a quarter or once a month, whatever is comfortable. I notice this on other boards and it seems to work on keeping the negotiations open for everyone, as it should be for comfortable for everyone. Of course, it helps to have a list of the rules.
 
Ariakas said:
Another thing I have noticed other groupings do is have it scheduled, like work almost, once a quarter or once a month, whatever is comfortable.

I notice this on other boards and it seems to work on keeping the negotiations open for everyone, as it should be for comfortable for everyone. Of course, it helps to have a list of the rules.
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I have noticed that, too, although I would be driven to craziness. I'm not a big fan of fixed schedules in terms of "every first Monday we will do this." I know it works for some, though. I prefer more fluidity, so that when something comes up it can be addressed right away.

We like to send emails and cc each other, That way we can have an ongoing conversation with breathers in between. Then we discuss as needed by setting up a time. We try to talk all together. After discussing as a couple, we are all on the same page and can help each other understand. If there is an issue between two, often the third asks questions and expresses a differing point of view. One of the benefits of poly! :)
 
Okay, again I need some help with communication. As you know we are me, the wife, with the husband and the girlfriend, C.

Now, one woman is difficult for any husband to deal with, but when you get two, the challenges can be even greater (the fun, too)!!

My question is, does anyone else have issues with the girls scrapping and the hubby being dragged into the middle from both sides? This has come up a few times now. Most recently, last night, we were at a party. We were outside, and I became cold, hungry, and generally cranky. Hubby went and told C that we were going to go (she had driven with us), and she asked that we just wait one more set (band) and then she would leave too.

The whole incident began to take a life of its own and sort of blew up into an issue. I guess I bitched at hubby about her, and she bitched at hubby about me, and he is in the CAVE today, not talking to either of us.

I know that better communication is a must. But how do you exercise this when you are in the heat of battle? It seems so difficult.
 
Neon, of course it is not worth the aggravation. (By 'it,' I am assuming that you mean the fight, not the relationship! Cuz that is up for debate at times as well! ;) )

The thing was, from my perspective, I just wanted to leave, and I think would have been content with just a 'good sleep' and starting fresh in the a.m. No extra BS. BUT C... well, she didn't sleep at all, and was totally wigged out and worried that once again we would call it quits.

It is so messed up! Insecurities. I mean it it is possible to just have an 'off' night and NOT make a huge deal out of it, right?

Please say "right"... ;)
 
PollyPocket said:
My question is does anyone else have issues with the girls scrapping and the hubby being dragged into the middle from both sides?

...and he is in the CAVE today! Not talking to either.
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I'd say he's responsible for his own situation. If he doesn't want to get in the middle of something, then he can keep himself out of it.

Were it me, I would have simply told her I was taking you home. She was welcome to ride along, and she and I could come back for more music, or she could stay and I'd be back directly. What I wouldn't do is spend any time listening to her bitching about it. She can ride along or stay, and that's all the discussion I would have any time for, at that point.

Heck, that's all the discussion I'd probably ever have time for about that. She doesn't get to decide when other people can come and go--she can only decide for herself. She can dislike what other people decide they are going to do, certainly. I have no obligation to listen to unreasonable bitching about it. Pissing and moaning about somebody having different needs--or that I would address those needs--qualifies as unreasonable bitching, in my world.
 
PollyPocket said:
I mean it is possible to just have an 'off' night and NOT make a huge deal out of it, right?

Please say right.... ;)
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Yes, that is right. That is exactly what I meant.

Most recently, last night, we were at a party, outside, and I became cold, hungry, and generally cranky. Hubby went and told C that we were going to go (she had driven with us), and she asked that we just wait one more set (band) and then she would leave too.
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You wanted to leave right away, she didn't. It does not mean there are deep-seated issues in your relationship. Unless there are.
 
Neon, some days I think that there are NO deep-seated issues, and sometimes I think there are! It 'feels' like I get blamed for the majority of the issues when things go south. Being the 'hinge' (I think that is the right word?), makes the other two people sort of reliant on me. If things are good for me, then all the world is right. I am not really happy with this sort of responsibility, as it feels like I am the one that makes the most mistakes. Happy wife, happy life, is that how it goes??

From what I have seen so far, when the downs happens it is from a mistake by someone, then a total overreaction from someone else, and the spiral spirals. Of course, the overreaction is never seen as the cause, so it is only me that eats the blame.

As you can tell, I'm still a little 'HOT' over this one. Ironically, I just wanted to leave the party so as to NOT cause a stir. Funny how that works!!

Thanks for your input!
 
I know what you mean about the hinge being the one who influences the *mood.* I experience this too sometimes, although it has shifted over time. It's more balanced between all of us. When Mono is down, I don't think PN knows unless I tell him. I make a point of doing so. I make a point of telling each guy the emotional state of the other. I have recently required the two of them to also work on their friend relationship, so that they can experience firsthand what that is like. I'm sick of being the middle man. I figure it's time they go straight to each other to find out what's going on. I know that takes time, but I don't see our dynamic being self-sustaining unless it transitions to this. I'm tired of using my energy to create space for their relationship. They need to work on it too. Not that I'm cranky about it, I'm just making moves to step back.
 
PollyPocket said:
Some days I think that there are NO deep-seated issues, and sometimes I think that there are! It 'feels' like I get blamed for the majority of the issues when things go south. Being the 'hinge' (I think that is the right word?), makes the other two sort of reliant on me. If things are good for me, then all the world is right. I am not really happy with this sort of responsibility, as it feels like I am the one that makes the most mistakes. Happy wife, happy life, is that how it goes?
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That depends on who you are involved with. If you are involved with adults who are self-sufficient and can schedule "things" ok, then the hinge simply has to be concerned with the two relationships at hand. Otherwise, there is a lot of responsibility on you as the hinge. Ideally, when they fight, you can stay out of it. Maybe make it a rule, if need be. It's unfair for you to get pulled in and be required to pick sides.

The extreme of this is of Vs where the legs don't talk. They just don't get along at times and the hinge is just trying to maintain the relationships.

From what I have seen so far, when the downs happens, it is from a mistake by someone, then a total overreaction from someone else and the spiral spirals. Of course the overreaction is never seen as the cause, so it is only me that eats the blame.
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Umm... this just sounds like marriage. This happens. The best thing to do and hope for is let the person overreacting come down off of their high horse and then talk to them. Communicating with someone in this position is about as fun as trying to talk budget with a drunk partner.

In a V you just have to hope two of the three can remain calm and mature. Otherwise, put on the attack dog suit and just sit there until things get to a normal level to talk about.
 
Thanks for the words of encouragement everyone! Very nice and waaaay better than talking to the other two about it right now! I am exhausted with the round about talk! Egad.

I just want to take a pulse check with you all. Friday night was fabulous. I 'let' the two of them 'date,' so to speak, and assumed the third wheel position. It was great. Everyone totally dug it. Later that night in bed, C reached over to me, grabbed my hand and said "THANK YOU for your gift."

Saturday, I suggested that they go for a motorbike ride together. Again, a great day for all. I had other things to do and they loved hanging out together. Again, a thank you from both.

Saturday night... wtf? We were all having a nice time and the live band was spectacular. Hubby and C disappeared for a bit, but I didn't think anything of it, and decided to go to the bathroom. There was a line, so I propped myself against the wall facing the front door of the house. Well, in walked the two of them from the front. I thought this odd, and no doubt made a face, and then it was my turn to pee, so asked hubby into the bathroom with me.

He said that C had wanted to show him the garden, but that he said he didn't think that was a good idea because I could feel abandoned. He actually told her that it was around my PMS time, which would make it worse. So they both retreated back inside, and looked like they had just been caught with their hands in the cookie jar. Hubby explained all this to me, and I was okay with it. More or less.

As the night went on, it wore on me a bit, just the trust issues with C, really. In addition, I was cold, hungry and my back was sore, and I slowly was just losing my groove. Hubby kept by me, hugging me, etc., and C was nowhere to be found. Flitting around taking pictures, etc. No words at all. She said that I simply looked so pissed off, and that she was standing clear.

When Hubby told her that we were leaving, her daughter had just arrived, and she had left her wallet at home, so she asked if could she borrow cab fare, or would we wait for one more set. I said that we could wait for another set.

Anyhow, silence all the way home. She went home to an empty house, not really knowing what was up. We went home with each other, not much said, and went to bed. She didn't sleep at all. We woke up to three voice mails, emails, Skypes to hubby... all unanswered.

Hubby freaked out, sent a text to us both telling us to figure it out and leave him out of it. So, yesterday C and I talked to each ad nauseum. Yelled, screamed, she cried (I still don't have tears!). Hubby was away all day with no communication.

This morning, after his night on the couch, he said, 'Can we just forget that yesterday happened?'

Seriously, this rollercoaster is fucked up. What is the answer? Less communication. More? Is it me that is trying to control somehow? This is the third time something like this has occurred, and it is such a HUGE downer after a few GREAT days!! Help me. :)
 
I think I am confused. Are you the hinge in the V or the leg? Or is this two different people posting under one account?
 
Well, I am not very good on the lingo yet. I am the wife in the wife, husband, girlfriend scenario. So I think that I am the hinge, and she is the leg, right? Or is the husband the hinge cuz he is attached to both? So confusing. I am 'attached' to both strongly, but the girlfriend is 'in love' with the hubby. Ugh... relationships!
 
PollyPocket said:
I am the wife in the wife, husband, girlfriend scenario. So I think that I am the hinge, and she is the leg, right? Or is the husband the hinge cuz he is attached to both? So confusing. I am 'attached' to both strongly, but the girlfriend is 'in love' with the hubby.
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In a V, traditionally the one connected to both is the hinge. You would be a leg.

In a triad, everyone is equal in their relationships, usually.

As the leg, if you have a good working relationship with the other leg, than you should communicate with her as much as you can. Using the hinge to communicate can be problematic. But it really depends on your relationship with them and how the communication is set up. Always using the hinge for everything puts a lot of pressure on him.

It really depends on the problem. Is it a problem that includes him, or is it just the two of you? Communication is important, but most important is, it has to be with the people involved in the specific challenge.
 
Thanks, Ari. Maybe that is the confusing part. It started with me and my close girlfriend, and of course Hubby jumped in when offered. Little did I know that my NRE/lust for C would far be surpassed by that of C and the hubby, leaving me with a nice healthy dose of rejection. Yeah, I am working on that part.

In fact, C brought it up AGAIN last night, that everything was fine when I thought she was "in love" with me. I believe we still do love each other, but it was and is still a hard pill to swallow. The insecurity that it brings with it sucks, and is no doubt the thing most likely responsible for the monster rising from the depths.

Such a complicated thing to have to navigate through, with no experience on much of it. Today I am pretty bummed out about the whole thing.
 
Better communication via therapy sessions

Is this how it is suppose to work? Hehe

I thought I would share some of my session notes from yesterday. It's sort of cool that I live in a pretty diverse city with so many great resources at my fingertips. I am using them all now!

I told the therapist about the ups and the downs and the total meltdowns of last weekend, and her first words were, "Today we are going to attempt to normalize some of this for you. What you are going through within this relationship is a very normal thing. It's ok." Wow. Thank you. I thought I was one step away from a padded room! ;)

We practiced relaxation techniques in order to 'embrace' the monster, and bring the brain back to the front where we can touch on rational thoughts again. She wants me to practice deep breaths 10 to 15 times per day in sets of 10. If I start to freak out, go somewhere quiet, sit and BREATHE. Sounds a bit 'airy fairy,' but I will give it a try.

The other thing she said that was interesting was, "The first adult same-sex experience with another female is an all-encompassing deep deep emotional connection. I have been doing this for 25 years, and when you are talking about all the deep attachments that are formed between both traditional and non-traditional relationships, there is none more powerful than the adult female's first experience with another woman."

Thank you! I had no idea what I was in for!!

Now, we just have to set up our second 'proactive, non-crisis' meeting between the three of us.

Flip, this is hard work!
 
So we tried for our second communication meeting yesterday! EGAD!! It went something like this:
C: When you (meaning me) are happy, then everyone is happy. It is simple. I don't have any issues.
Hubby: Yeah, it has been going well lately. I am cool.
Me: Well, I am good too. We had talked about going to see a (poly specialist) counsellor all together. Maybe she can help with some of the communication stuff.
C: Oh, I thought we were going there to just talk about you.
Me: Well, I think there are things that we can all do better, and maybe she can help with strategies.
C: Well, if I go, just be prepared that there may be some things that you will not like to hear. There are some things I would like to tell you.
Me: What? What I am hearing is that you don't want to go to this meeting.
C: I was joking. Totally joking. Oh my god, take a joke.

Does that look like trouble, or what? During our communication meeting! WTF! That was just a little sampler of the crap I endured (with a smile) yesterday!

So, today, a holiday, she is waiting for contact from one of us, I am sure, and I am just so pissed off I don't want to talk! If I do, it will be using my best "I am so angry with you" techniques! Seriously, any advice out there?

My poor hubby is caught in the crossfire again, and I don't even know why!

Thanks.
 
Perhaps someone should propose that when a "communication meeting" is called, everyone agrees to be candid, straightforward, and sincere. No "jokes" allowed, and if someone accidentally makes a joke, they should immediately realize it and say "Oops! Sorry I made a joke just now, I couldn't help it." (See the thing is, this is how I live my life. Not to say that I never make jokes, I do that all the time. But, I try to recognize when it needs to be declared explicitly that no one ought to be making jokes about something. It's not something that is peculiar to intimate/loverly relationships.)

I'm trying to read your script of what she said in a way that could have been in a joking tone or mannerism, but I'm not having much success. You were there, you know if it could have sounded like a joke or not.
 
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There are four words I try to remember when I'm in the middle of a tough discussion with my hubby: "When you ___, I feel ___." If I hear or say the words, "You never" or "You always," I know I need to revert to the four words to have an effective discussion. I'm a strong feeler and tend to react defensively, but if I can put my thoughts in terms of "When you ___, I feel ___," I can stay focused, and my husband can understand me without feeling defensive. Those four words have deescalated some extreme unhappiness and helped us resolve problems. I don't remember where I learned them, but I highly recommend them.
 
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