powerpuffgrl1969
Active member
I'm sorry, Spork.
The story of Spork.
- Thread starter Spork
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Spork, it seems like Zen is doing the classic poly-newbie mistake of getting all swept away by NRE.
I'm not sure if his behaviour right now is truly indicative of how he finds you attractive or whether he settled for you.
Sure, likely he does like young and pretty, but I repeat: That is not indicative of whether he cares for you as a person or not.
I can't believe I'm recommending this, but maybe this is one of the rare times appropriate to make a scene. Let the feelings out uncensored. Go screaming at him how he's a fucking hypocrite, asking you to forego men and then jumping at the first opportunity he's got with a young chick. Making a huge fucking deal out of the facebook comment. Absolutely forbidding a relationship with that gal unless he treats you better. Tell him all you have written. Then don't speak to him for a week.
(I'm exaggerating just a tiny little bit. Just make absolutely sure he knows there's a line crossed. Like, not in his head, on a level that actually hurts.)
Sure, doubt your thoughts, I know you will. But let the feelings out. Make it clear that you want to establish new standards in your relationship, and either have him be monogamous too, or throw OPP out of the window.
This could be enough of a mirror to have him pause in his tracks and reflect. Nobody loves looking at their own BS, not even after studying fucking Buddhism for 20 years (oh, hi, Idealist).
Then, start anew, slowly, maybe by being even more honest and reading some of that damn poly literature together.
You are at a crossroads. Either you'll get resentful, or you two will actually return to the foundation of your relationship and fix it. And I've heard so much from you over the years about how amazing Zen is, and I know you too, and I'm sure you can come out stronger out of the crisis.
I'm not sure if his behaviour right now is truly indicative of how he finds you attractive or whether he settled for you.
Sure, likely he does like young and pretty, but I repeat: That is not indicative of whether he cares for you as a person or not.
I can't believe I'm recommending this, but maybe this is one of the rare times appropriate to make a scene. Let the feelings out uncensored. Go screaming at him how he's a fucking hypocrite, asking you to forego men and then jumping at the first opportunity he's got with a young chick. Making a huge fucking deal out of the facebook comment. Absolutely forbidding a relationship with that gal unless he treats you better. Tell him all you have written. Then don't speak to him for a week.
(I'm exaggerating just a tiny little bit. Just make absolutely sure he knows there's a line crossed. Like, not in his head, on a level that actually hurts.)
Sure, doubt your thoughts, I know you will. But let the feelings out. Make it clear that you want to establish new standards in your relationship, and either have him be monogamous too, or throw OPP out of the window.
This could be enough of a mirror to have him pause in his tracks and reflect. Nobody loves looking at their own BS, not even after studying fucking Buddhism for 20 years (oh, hi, Idealist).
Then, start anew, slowly, maybe by being even more honest and reading some of that damn poly literature together.
You are at a crossroads. Either you'll get resentful, or you two will actually return to the foundation of your relationship and fix it. And I've heard so much from you over the years about how amazing Zen is, and I know you too, and I'm sure you can come out stronger out of the crisis.
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vinsanity0
Active member
Spork, you are an awesome person who deserves whatever you want.
I kinda agree with Tinwen. This sounds like classic mono guy can't handle nre and having sexual feelings for more than one person so they totally act stupid kind of a thing. He definitely needs to get his act together and acknowledge your feelings.
I hope things work out because he seemed to make you very happy until now.
I kinda agree with Tinwen. This sounds like classic mono guy can't handle nre and having sexual feelings for more than one person so they totally act stupid kind of a thing. He definitely needs to get his act together and acknowledge your feelings.
I hope things work out because he seemed to make you very happy until now.
Spork
Active member
I'm posting from my phone so I'm not going to write a long thing, but Zen and I are OK. We're talking and negotiating and it's going to be alright with us.
Also, I'm going to do a dinner with Hefe and Fire tomorrow and then Zen and I are going to Phoenix for about 6 days, so we'll have time to talk. And I'm SO picking up a copy of More Than Two, ASAP for both of us to read, but him first.
I may have overreacted, but those feelings were very real. But we are human and no relationship is easy and smooth and perfect at all times. I think we are working on this as well as anyone and better than most.
Thanks you guys. All the love!
Also, I'm going to do a dinner with Hefe and Fire tomorrow and then Zen and I are going to Phoenix for about 6 days, so we'll have time to talk. And I'm SO picking up a copy of More Than Two, ASAP for both of us to read, but him first.
I may have overreacted, but those feelings were very real. But we are human and no relationship is easy and smooth and perfect at all times. I think we are working on this as well as anyone and better than most.
Thanks you guys. All the love!
powerpuffgrl1969
Active member
Glad to hear it! BUT, don't negate or downplay your feelings. Of course, we weren't there, so Zen may very well been being a complete asshat (or, maybe, not so much.) In any case, don't just brush your feelings and wants aside.
I'm so happy you feel better!
I'm so happy you feel better!
Spork
Active member
I want to try and get a thought down, but I don't have a ton of time. I will likely revisit it later.
Zen feels VERY guilty for the play he got up to at the club that I walked in on, when we hadn't negotiated it. This is the main thing he feels guilt over, though for me it wasn't really that upsetting. Just a "whoa hey, we need to talk yo" moment.
I have the sense we're still struggling to communicate where it comes to the part that DID hurt me. He knows how I felt (obviously) and he knows he does not mean or want to cause me to feel that way. But what he is thinking when he says what he says...and what I'm hearing, seem to be very different things.
And this brings me to my thought. So in another forum I use where people go for general relationship advice (which I, and others, give) it is super, super common for people, men and women both, to show up in an agitated emotional state and write a long post that is basically asking a question...
"My partner did X. X is wrong, right? Doesn't everybody think that X act was utterly out of line? Does it count as cheating? I'm very upset. I want validation from strangers who can tell me that they also believe this act was universally Against The Unspoken Rules and my partner should have known better."
And I always say, "Noooo... If you never discussed this, and you just ASSUMED that they knew it was an unspoken agreement you had, because that's just how everybody does this whole relationship thing...you are making trouble for yourself." Because I know that there are activities that would make some people go insane with pain and anger and would end most people's relationships, that I'm like...meh, yanno, I'm cool with that. And I have the right to be cool with whatever I'm cool with...and I also have the right to my feelings when they are not so sanguine, and there isn't really a need to JUSTIFY them by having to point to a clear act of wrongdoing that makes it ok for me to feel how I do about something.
Zen is new to relationships. I know this. And even experienced people (with relationships or even with non-monogamy) will often have some bumps in the road when they try to renegotiate terms.
In particular since the other day, Zen has been laying it on rather thick, using complimentary adjectives with me a whole lot. And he's right, I mean, it could get to be a bit much. That's the thing though, I honestly wasn't asking him to kiss my ass 24/7 or pop off a "you're pretty!" every other sentence. I was asking for some reassurance. I wasn't asking him to bullshit me. I was hoping that there were moments that he legitimately looked at me and loved what he saw, and hoped he could maybe tap some words to express that now and again. Or something. It was him saying that he didn't think he could do that without it being empty bullshit flattery that hurt. That really said to me, especially once he blasted his NRE fueled "omg you're so hot and sexy and look you have the same interests as me and omg omg" all over her pictures...that he just didn't think he could tell me I was sexy without it being a lie, ergo, he did not find me sexy. I mean I'm feeling like a sad, messy hunk of meatloaf in a candy store over here. And really it was just that basic pushback against me asking for what I wanted that set that off. A clear statement of refusal to consider trying to help me feel better.
And, in the true spirit of completely crossed signals, he figured that since I was open to the idea of playing with the gal as a couple, that I'd be proud of him for ingratiating with her and building a connection, that he was trying to facilitate something we'd both enjoy together. But...it really comes off mostly as the loopiness of NRE/infatuation. And that's ok, I mean, I've felt that before. Hell, I've made a fool of myself with it before. I don't even begrudge Zen that experience. I just want to know he still values me and I've still got it going on, too.
And it doesn't help, though it's no doing of his, that with the (awesome and appreciated) exception of Fire, who does remind me that she sees a lot in me that I don't always see in myself... I don't feel very validated by PEOPLE in general in terms of still being sexy and all, mostly because in a way I've closed myself off to it. Mostly for Zen's sake.
And it also is a thing I've got to make sure I can be ok with...the whole, "My feelings dictate da rules" coming from the man in the relationship, and feeling as though my needs, feelings, etc aren't as important. So when Zen said, "I don't feel comfortable with other men, let's be monogamous" we were monogamous. And when Zen said, "OK now I've got someone new to play with, it IS only fair after all, you can play with guys, too, let's be more open." This goes back to me just going along with everything, with no damned idea what I even want...because it's been a while since I gave myself the space to feel ok wanting things, asking for things, etc.
And then circling back...when I DO ask for something and it goes badly, that reinforces that I am not deserving of wanting things or asking for things.
So it's all fucking complicated. But it goes way beyond a question of "doing this one thing that was Against The Rules Wrong"... It is far more about me wanting to feel like I'm thought of, that I matter, even if my partner is up to his eyeballs in NRE.
Which is a problem I am sure that LITERALLY NO ONE EVER, on a polyamory website, has ever ever had... lol.
Zen feels VERY guilty for the play he got up to at the club that I walked in on, when we hadn't negotiated it. This is the main thing he feels guilt over, though for me it wasn't really that upsetting. Just a "whoa hey, we need to talk yo" moment.
I have the sense we're still struggling to communicate where it comes to the part that DID hurt me. He knows how I felt (obviously) and he knows he does not mean or want to cause me to feel that way. But what he is thinking when he says what he says...and what I'm hearing, seem to be very different things.
And this brings me to my thought. So in another forum I use where people go for general relationship advice (which I, and others, give) it is super, super common for people, men and women both, to show up in an agitated emotional state and write a long post that is basically asking a question...
"My partner did X. X is wrong, right? Doesn't everybody think that X act was utterly out of line? Does it count as cheating? I'm very upset. I want validation from strangers who can tell me that they also believe this act was universally Against The Unspoken Rules and my partner should have known better."
And I always say, "Noooo... If you never discussed this, and you just ASSUMED that they knew it was an unspoken agreement you had, because that's just how everybody does this whole relationship thing...you are making trouble for yourself." Because I know that there are activities that would make some people go insane with pain and anger and would end most people's relationships, that I'm like...meh, yanno, I'm cool with that. And I have the right to be cool with whatever I'm cool with...and I also have the right to my feelings when they are not so sanguine, and there isn't really a need to JUSTIFY them by having to point to a clear act of wrongdoing that makes it ok for me to feel how I do about something.
Zen is new to relationships. I know this. And even experienced people (with relationships or even with non-monogamy) will often have some bumps in the road when they try to renegotiate terms.
In particular since the other day, Zen has been laying it on rather thick, using complimentary adjectives with me a whole lot. And he's right, I mean, it could get to be a bit much. That's the thing though, I honestly wasn't asking him to kiss my ass 24/7 or pop off a "you're pretty!" every other sentence. I was asking for some reassurance. I wasn't asking him to bullshit me. I was hoping that there were moments that he legitimately looked at me and loved what he saw, and hoped he could maybe tap some words to express that now and again. Or something. It was him saying that he didn't think he could do that without it being empty bullshit flattery that hurt. That really said to me, especially once he blasted his NRE fueled "omg you're so hot and sexy and look you have the same interests as me and omg omg" all over her pictures...that he just didn't think he could tell me I was sexy without it being a lie, ergo, he did not find me sexy. I mean I'm feeling like a sad, messy hunk of meatloaf in a candy store over here. And really it was just that basic pushback against me asking for what I wanted that set that off. A clear statement of refusal to consider trying to help me feel better.
And, in the true spirit of completely crossed signals, he figured that since I was open to the idea of playing with the gal as a couple, that I'd be proud of him for ingratiating with her and building a connection, that he was trying to facilitate something we'd both enjoy together. But...it really comes off mostly as the loopiness of NRE/infatuation. And that's ok, I mean, I've felt that before. Hell, I've made a fool of myself with it before. I don't even begrudge Zen that experience. I just want to know he still values me and I've still got it going on, too.
And it doesn't help, though it's no doing of his, that with the (awesome and appreciated) exception of Fire, who does remind me that she sees a lot in me that I don't always see in myself... I don't feel very validated by PEOPLE in general in terms of still being sexy and all, mostly because in a way I've closed myself off to it. Mostly for Zen's sake.
And it also is a thing I've got to make sure I can be ok with...the whole, "My feelings dictate da rules" coming from the man in the relationship, and feeling as though my needs, feelings, etc aren't as important. So when Zen said, "I don't feel comfortable with other men, let's be monogamous" we were monogamous. And when Zen said, "OK now I've got someone new to play with, it IS only fair after all, you can play with guys, too, let's be more open." This goes back to me just going along with everything, with no damned idea what I even want...because it's been a while since I gave myself the space to feel ok wanting things, asking for things, etc.
And then circling back...when I DO ask for something and it goes badly, that reinforces that I am not deserving of wanting things or asking for things.
So it's all fucking complicated. But it goes way beyond a question of "doing this one thing that was Against The Rules Wrong"... It is far more about me wanting to feel like I'm thought of, that I matter, even if my partner is up to his eyeballs in NRE.
Which is a problem I am sure that LITERALLY NO ONE EVER, on a polyamory website, has ever ever had... lol.
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I am glad Zen has not morphed into a total jerk, and that your original judgement about him was not so mistaken. I totally know how you felt though, once I was so hurt and angry that I could not trust myself to speak to Ray for 2 days (when we were long distance) because a comment he made sounded to me like he didn't care how I felt about a major agreement.
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Spork
Active member
Well, Leetah, Zen is trying. He loves me a lot and wants to give me what I need and I think we just had some confusion between us about what, perhaps, that looked like. I think he's relaxing a bit now because I told him I don't want him walking on eggshells, we're doing a lot of talking. One thing that helped a lot is that he very clearly told me that he wants to marry me, which until then seemed like an idea I was trying to float his direction, but I'd worried I might be pressuring him. Anyhow, things are getting more comfortable.
Was he spontaneous before?... He would sometimes say something nice if I was dressed up, but more he felt he was expressing himself in looks and touch. I was asking for more words, which is a love language thing for me.
Zen is definitely not a jerk, he's just struggling with the need to learn new skills. He hasn't had a ton of experience with women and relationships. He's actually got a lot of emotional intelligence, in many areas though.
Was he spontaneous before?... He would sometimes say something nice if I was dressed up, but more he felt he was expressing himself in looks and touch. I was asking for more words, which is a love language thing for me.
Zen is definitely not a jerk, he's just struggling with the need to learn new skills. He hasn't had a ton of experience with women and relationships. He's actually got a lot of emotional intelligence, in many areas though.
Uiiiii, Spork, that's awesome
Good luck with the confusion though. It seems you have some painful emotional work to do (again), going back in time and finding the roots of feeling unappreciated and like your needs don't matter. It's good that Zen is trying (feel free to behave just a little entitled), unfortunately, some of the pain, he can't ease.
Spork
Active member
Uiiiii, Spork, that's awesome
Good luck with the confusion though. It seems you have some painful emotional work to do (again), going back in time and finding the roots of feeling unappreciated and like your needs don't matter. It's good that Zen is trying (feel free to behave just a little entitled), unfortunately, some of the pain, he can't ease.
That is true, and I think that Zen and I are well aware that it is.
Zen and I just got back from Phoenix. It was a good trip. We went to a BDSM club down there and did a bit of networking. I was impressed with the sheer amount of space they had to work with compared to my home dungeon, and the people were quite nice, but like another club up in Denver they had more of an industrial feel to the place than what I truly prefer. I am just not a huge fan of concrete floors and the whole industrial look. Voodoo has wood floors and warmer lighting, it feels more like home to me. I feel that more attention could be paid to the place's cosmetics. And like the one in Denver, too, it's in a sort of industrial park area.
If I were able to wave a magic wand, the club of my dreams would have that kind of space, with my home dungeon's kind of energy and lighting and colors.
One day perhaps.
Zen's father was doing well and it was good to spend time with him. Phoenix was hot. Zen and I did a lot of connecting, talking, sex, bonding...I think we both feel more solid now. I know that I do.
I was thinking today, about the fact that I feel so incredibly conflicted about some at least, of what I want.
I think I uncovered something important. What some of the programming is behind my conflicted feelings.
I have a history of situations where I didn't have much confidence in anybody else caring about my needs. Seeing the person that I am, hearing what I needed and wanted, and desiring to help me have needs met. I had a childhood full of people asking and taking, demanding I be quiet and step aside for others. The ugly, socially awkward child got no love from her peers. The nurturer I had when I was little, died when I was 5 years old. I was told not to speak, not to interrupt, not to bother busy adults. My desire to build and create wasn't appreciated, and I was given a whole lot of things I neither needed nor wanted. "Girls like this. Here. Have a doll." I didn't want dolls, they were boring. I wanted books and building toys. Eventually I reached a point where I started going after what I needed, by myself, for myself. But people were happy to have me around when I had something to give to THEM. I was caring for younger siblings at 9 years old, I was giving sex and good advice, food and gifts, to keep other teenagers as friends to me. People might not want the person that I am, but they enjoyed what I could give to them.
And this just got more and more prevalent when I became a Mother. My ex was very demanding, and not very giving. And children are like that by nature. My sons continue to not feel any compulsion to spontaneously give or do much, I have to push them to put effort into things, but they take and make me feel taken for granted...though at least my younger son is getting better about expressing appreciation.
Breaking out of my marriage, and in particular discovering BDSM and the bottom roles, has been giving myself permission to receive. To be the focal point of someone's attention, and I've partnered with one of the most generous souls I have ever encountered. And when we scene at the club, I feel like I'm not only receiving his gifts of attention and sensation, but I also feel beautiful to other people in it. It is the first time in my life where I feel...whole. Like I can relax, let down the walls, and allow myself to truly enjoy receiving what someone else is willing to give to me. Not brushed aside in my needs and wants, but valuable enough to receive pleasure and focus. And the things that I do and give, in this relationship, feel truly appreciated.
But to try and appeal to what I believe Zen is attracted to, I've tried to embrace (sometimes) a more youthful, cute, feminine thing. To be...softer. To be his girl.
Now we are talking about me stepping up and into a more Dominant and/or Top role, and in particular he wants to see me doing this with young, beautiful women. The idea is even more exciting to him, than the already significant excitement he feels about topping these gals himself. And part of me is interested and enthused, but that part stands very separate from my role and relationship with him. That persona channels a more masculine energy to me. It is also a creative and performative element. I want to do these elaborate scenes like nothing that anyone else is doing, not your standard fire or rope or flogging deal. I want to be and do something UNIQUE. I like thinking about it. But to do it, I need to let myself be super confident. And then there is the problem...I fear that if I step into that role, for one thing that if I go so hard, I won't be his girl anymore. That he will then shift all of his giving energy to the "girl" in the scene, who is my bottom. I will risk losing his desire even more than just the basic fears connected to my age and self-criticisms. That this is, once again, the universe saying that me wanting to receive is wrong, that I need to just shut up and be happy giving to others, and also watch my beloved stop wanting to give to me, and focus HIS giving to others.
Because deep down I fear being cast straight back into a place where any hint of selfishness or enjoyment of receiving attention...is just not for me to have or enjoy. That triggers my "urge to vanish" which is a childhood thing, when my home world was full of people who didn't care and stuff I didn't care about, I'd go get my own needs met by myself, wandering the woods alone, isolating from the world that I didn't think understood me at all.
I look at the notion of Domming-out like, "What is in this for me?" And I am afraid there won't be much, and that I will lose what I have. I have been more Dominant before, when I was much younger, but there wasn't any real receiving-type pleasure in it for me. Only the enjoyment of being in control and being "mean." I most certainly was not getting off on it, since I was only accomplishing that by myself, for myself, during that phase of my life.
I have had a few relationships or sexual interactions with women, but most of those intimate encounters were two women focused on a man. I've never felt really satisfied in such activity with another woman. Fire and I had very limited sexual contact, when we were involved with each other. But then I've had a ton of very unsatisfying sex with males, too.
And then the other thing is that I struggle to feel confident in my abilities as a Top of any kind. There are some skills I never find the time to practice. Others, I'm not sure I've got the dexterity to accomplish as well as I'd like. Others still, where I describe these creative ideas (the ones that get me enthusiastic for a minute) to someone else, and they respond with confusion and questioning if that would even work...then I sort of feel deflated. Confidence gone.
This is probably pretty important concept-stuff to some of the paralysis I've been feeling in a number of areas in my life. My fear that I will no longer be "allowed" to receive, my feeling that asking for what I need is not ok, and isn't taken well in general...then the feeling that if I give my all, I'll just be put back into a sort of box where no one cares what I need or want, people just use and take and don't appreciate anything, but I mustn't be needy or selfish or ask for things. And the only realm that's really going to be safe, ultimately my only reward, is just being free to do for myself, by myself.
I think that this is sort of parallel to what a lot of abuse survivors deal with, when everyone watches them getting into one bad relationship after another, and wonders why they can't be in a healthy one. When your life programs you to expect to be treated a certain way, and fills you will the feeling that you deserve no better...if you GET better, it's hard to trust that it's real, and that it won't vanish at any moment.
Spork, do YOU actually want to do the Dominant/Top thing with another woman? Because I wouldn't do it just because the idea arouses Zen. That doesn't sound like it would be a positive thing for you emotionally unless you're having a connection with your bottom anyway.
I'm a little put off by the necessity that your partner be young and beautiful though. Is that the kind of woman you're attracted to?
I'm a little put off by the necessity that your partner be young and beautiful though. Is that the kind of woman you're attracted to?
Spork
Active member
I am attracted to whatever I can connect with in talking and interacting with people. I admit that I've probably had more fulfilling connection-via-conversation from older people, but it occasionally happens with younger ones also, and more often with younger women than younger men.
If we talk, and I get the sense that they have good brainstuff going on, and not a whole mess of youthful drama and flightiness, if they're at least kinda steady humans, then I can entertain the notion of playing with them. I don't know if that makes sense? Character is most important.
However, I feel far more comfortable, in situations where a partner is significantly older, if they are in the top/Dominant role. People closer to my age, or younger, if I am down to play with them at all, I would be more flexible as to who is doing what.
But you are right though, in that trying to fit myself into Zen's fantasies involving multiple partners, is making a mess of my thinking. It's been something I've been trying to do today instead, to think, "What actually sounds yummy and fun to me?" I do have some thoughts. Some are definite, safe to say I would really enjoy myself thoughts. Some are more experimental, that I think I might like, I'm not 100% sure...but would be willing to try.
And to be perfectly honest, aside from the one young lady we've talked to, I am not truly sure who else would even want to play with me. There is an older lady I'd love to be Topped by, and she is a Top, and I have talked to Zen about it and will probably ask her. But I don't know if she has a sexual interest in women...I feel like maybe she might, but I feel safer assuming that she might want to do impact with me, I would have to ask about anything more sexual than that. But I would be down for whatever, with her.
And I feel very comfortable in the idea that I would enjoy bottoming in more of a group activity with a variety of people involved, even co-bottoming with the younger girl, if several more Toppish sorts wanted to "make us" do things with and/or to one another, and do things with and to us.
All sorts of activities where I am bottoming in various configurations and scenarios feel comfortable and safe to me.
Topping feels...challenging. I cannot say that nothing about it appeals. That would not be true. But there has been a gut-deep hesitation in me, and I've been really working to try and figure out why exactly that might be. I look in the mirror and I think I would make a formidable Domme. The IDEA of it, seeing it from outside myself in my mind's eye, I think I would look really cool doing it. I have ideas that would be really cool to do.
But my hesitations...
- That I was unethical when I was in that role as a teenager, and I have regrets.
- That I fear Zen might not see me the same way, or want me the same way, if he saw me really channeling that side of myself.
- That some of the more demanding, skeevy-ish, "Oh boy, fulfill my fantasies and let me worship you, Mistress" type male bottoms at the club might get all excited and try to glom onto me (which I barely prevent them from doing anyways.) These are, not to put too fine a point on it, the older men that I am NOT attracted to. And who have a tendency to be boundary pushers.
- That I will get into situations where people want things from me, that aren't really enjoyable/interesting to me, and I'll have a hard time saying no.
The bold one is the one I realized today, which is probably the most significant one of all.
Spork
Active member
Yep, sounds like processing going well ...
I'm working on it. Having a good place to unwind my thoughts (here) is helpful.
We went to a "Midweek Party" at the club last night. Neither the younger woman that had Zen all excited, nor the older lady who has caught my interest, were there. But Fire was, and I had thought to bring my fire play kit and she was interested in getting some practice in it. I think I'm getting smoother and more comfortable in my fire play. We had a good time.
Unfortunately those parties are shorter and we didn't get there right when it started either, and I did my usual thing of getting some social time in and getting some coffee and smoking a couple of times and this and that, and the time sort of flew away. I had time for the fire stuff, but then not really time to also do impact with Zen, which I was thinking we would do, if neither of the other women we were interested in happened to be there. Though really I thought one or the other or both would be. Ah well. I had a good time, I think that Zen enjoyed watching, and we will have some time together tonight.
In our talks thus far about being somewhat more "open"... I have told Zen that my thoughts are to put more energy into important friendships I want to nurture and grow outside of the club, and explore more play/sexual fun at party events. I don't really believe in the whole "We can have sex with other people but no feelings allowed" thing. Legislating feelings. But limiting it this way makes sense to me for a couple of reasons. Adding more Official Relationship Things with obligations and such feels like a thing that I, at least, don't want to put my time and energy into. I don't think that either Zen or I really want to give up time we spend together, and of course we have other demands on our schedules. The time management thing is still really challenging for me. Putting another expectation on it, that requires big maintenance, feels...stressful.
The other thing is, I at least do NOT want to go the route of meeting men online or in person, and trying to do "dating" and going home with them, and having what I expect to mostly be sex that doesn't really push my best buttons anyhow. Doing stuff at the club, adds the exhibitionist element, and that makes it more exciting to me, so a guy does not have to be a 100% perfect match for my particular needs (as so few have been) if we are playing there. The whole dating thing...just...I don't wanna.
Time I could spend doing that, which always feels like an awkward job interview with a near-stranger who wants to get in my pants... I would so much rather spend teaching my sons to drive, trying to get my house cleaning tasks in hand, or having good times with good friends.
The only exception to that is...and this is probably best left to after the kids are moved out and I'm not dealing with their stress...exploring some kind of a relationship or something with another woman. I am intrigued by the thought of doing that outside of the club, and more particularly with no men in the picture, because I have not really had as much truly invested intimacy with JUST me and another woman, with no "perform for some guy because two chicks is just hawt" energy floating around. I want to experience what really engaging sexually with another lady is like when no men are involved in it. Because despite being an exhibitionist, I do feel like worrying too much about how it looked for a dude, and making sure HIS needs were met, made it difficult for me to enjoy myself with the relatively few women I've had the chance to be intimate with.
So. I'll get around to that. Maybe not right away, but at some point, I think.
Spork
Active member
Addendum to also note with regard to what I said in my last post.
I'm talking more about what sort of thing I might want to do.
I am not talking about what either Zen or myself is "allowed" to do.
And what limits I think I might want in place, are me speaking for me, and the few where I said "we" were where Zen and I talked and I think he is thinking along similar lines.
I am not interested much in restricting his activities so much as I'd like a bit of honest talk so I know what to expect if something new and unexpected is gonna go down...and I want to make sure that we are still meeting one another's needs and our connection between us stays strong and happy.
I don't think I'd feel that our relationship was necessarily threatened if he had a whole secondary relationship. But I don't personally feel like putting the time and energy into focusing that much on building something new with someone new, myself. Hence the desire to sorta...compartmentalize a little, and keep sexual stuff at the club.
I'm talking more about what sort of thing I might want to do.
I am not talking about what either Zen or myself is "allowed" to do.
And what limits I think I might want in place, are me speaking for me, and the few where I said "we" were where Zen and I talked and I think he is thinking along similar lines.
I am not interested much in restricting his activities so much as I'd like a bit of honest talk so I know what to expect if something new and unexpected is gonna go down...and I want to make sure that we are still meeting one another's needs and our connection between us stays strong and happy.
I don't think I'd feel that our relationship was necessarily threatened if he had a whole secondary relationship. But I don't personally feel like putting the time and energy into focusing that much on building something new with someone new, myself. Hence the desire to sorta...compartmentalize a little, and keep sexual stuff at the club.
Spork
Active member
Colorado in May and the weather is crap. Cold, cloudy, ice, rain, snow. Ugh.
I come in from my break wearing my winter coat and change into my hoodie that I keep at my desk. I feel like I'm channeling a bit of Mr. Rogers every time I do this.
I'm happy to say that I am doing the thing of putting effort into making plans with friends. I am going to try and sustain this, reaching out to people and spending quality time. Got some plans for Sunday, though I have not heard back from the young woman that Zen and I have been talking about playing with.
And I'm also happy that we finally got our stupid patio door fixed today, which has been sticking due to faulty track components for some time. Yay, that!
The visit that Zen and I did to Phoenix cast some doubt on our plans to move there...kind of. Like I still want to PREPARE for it as a likelihood, and assume that fall of 2021 would be sensible timing. I'm trying to keep the timeframe in mind that I've had in terms of getting my sons out on their own, and saving up money, and making ready for this. But Zen's father expressed some dubious sentiments as though he does not feel we should move there, or that he would rather we didn't...he was kind of hard to read. He certainly did not seem thrilled to hear it. If he's still doing fine, when the time comes, I guess we could always just hang onto our savings and renew our lease and stay put and just take it year-by-year. We do have the ability to (with a fee) break our lease and move early if it were to come to that.
I am honestly not sure how I feel about it. I generally do like the idea of living in different places here and there, experiencing different regional attitudes and getting to know a new city, it can be fun and I feel that doing so in my life has given me new depths as a person. I'm open minded to new challenges. But I think I prefer it here in Colorado, in general, and that for the most part I would be happy to stay put. So whatever comes, comes.
I know that my Ex would rather I left town. He was being weird and barraging me and Q with texts and rambly phone calls on Monday night. He seems determined to buy a crappy trailer and fix it up, and have Q go live with him. Q is not very enthusiastic about this idea but has struggled to clearly convey that to his father. Ex seems to think that our housing and lifestyle is unstable or in some sort of vague peril, and is on about raising the boys as this mission, his proud duty and whatnot. When he really has not done much of the work of it, all along. And what he has done...much of it more harm than good, in my opinion. As usual, wishing I'd managed to choose a better man to father my offspring, if I was meant to have offspring at all. But c'est la vie, the bell cannot be un-rung and here we are. And he seems...maybe?...to be all afire with the idea for me to get out of the city as soon as humanly possible.
The only thing that I'm even possibly holding him back from doing here, is going to Voodoo, which he's mentioned occasionally. He seems to believe he might find a partner there, or at least get laid, and maybe be able to top women, which I have the sense is a desire to vent anger at the female gender by beating on someone ("but I can be professional about it. And I'd make sure to get their consent of course.") The issue here in my opinion is that he really doesn't have much empathy and he tends to be an offensive and obnoxious person, and if anyone has a problem with what he says or does, to claim it's their issue and not his. I just don't see this mentality going over very well in the community. He's also very shamey and judgmental toward anyone who isn't like him...and he would be a Trump loving conservative in a room full of LGBTQ+ people. I see so many areas where this could go horribly sideways I just don't even know where to start.
Yet at the same time, I have seen other people use their own interactions with someone, a failed relationship mainly, to form the basis of an opinion that someone (or several people) were toxic and bad for the community, when in fact it was just their own personal connection to them that was a mess. I don't want to be that person, who says, from a definitely biased place, that my Ex is so harmful that he should not be welcome there. And I also feel that if he could potentially grow and learn healthier thinking, who am I to hamper him in doing so? He also believes that if he is in any way, shape, or form, less than completely welcome there, it will be because I "talked shit" about him and "poisoned the well."
All I know is that I would not want anyone I truly care about, subject to his crap, and while he has changed, it's only so much. And not all for the better, as far as I can tell. I see it going badly, and I expect he will blame me if it does.
The only reason he hasn't gone so far is because we had an agreement in the beginning that I would stay out of his social circles and his pool league in particular, and he would stay away from my kink community. Though at one point he tried to unilaterally throw that agreement to the side, I did what I could to hold him to it, insisting that at the very minimum, he restrict his attendance there, should he choose to go, to a few events that I never go to. Such as a particular discussion group where maybe he could ask questions and get answers and see if he's any kind of a fit.
But I don't think he's gone. I think that he is likely waiting until I leave. Then he can go in, tell everyone that whatever I said about him is lies, lies, lies, and try to turn my social group against me so that I never feel welcomed in this city again. I think that's his plan, knowing what I do of his thinking. But I do not think it will work.
Of course he was also talking about dying as soon as possible, making reference to the passive aggressive slow suicide of how badly he treats his body and health, and going on about how he would have a place in Valhalla and I'd better not try to persuade either of our sons to share their life insurance money with me.
I cannot believe I stayed with him for so long. Not for the first or last time, I wish I'd known at a very much younger age, the things I know now.
I come in from my break wearing my winter coat and change into my hoodie that I keep at my desk. I feel like I'm channeling a bit of Mr. Rogers every time I do this.
I'm happy to say that I am doing the thing of putting effort into making plans with friends. I am going to try and sustain this, reaching out to people and spending quality time. Got some plans for Sunday, though I have not heard back from the young woman that Zen and I have been talking about playing with.
And I'm also happy that we finally got our stupid patio door fixed today, which has been sticking due to faulty track components for some time. Yay, that!
The visit that Zen and I did to Phoenix cast some doubt on our plans to move there...kind of. Like I still want to PREPARE for it as a likelihood, and assume that fall of 2021 would be sensible timing. I'm trying to keep the timeframe in mind that I've had in terms of getting my sons out on their own, and saving up money, and making ready for this. But Zen's father expressed some dubious sentiments as though he does not feel we should move there, or that he would rather we didn't...he was kind of hard to read. He certainly did not seem thrilled to hear it. If he's still doing fine, when the time comes, I guess we could always just hang onto our savings and renew our lease and stay put and just take it year-by-year. We do have the ability to (with a fee) break our lease and move early if it were to come to that.
I am honestly not sure how I feel about it. I generally do like the idea of living in different places here and there, experiencing different regional attitudes and getting to know a new city, it can be fun and I feel that doing so in my life has given me new depths as a person. I'm open minded to new challenges. But I think I prefer it here in Colorado, in general, and that for the most part I would be happy to stay put. So whatever comes, comes.
I know that my Ex would rather I left town. He was being weird and barraging me and Q with texts and rambly phone calls on Monday night. He seems determined to buy a crappy trailer and fix it up, and have Q go live with him. Q is not very enthusiastic about this idea but has struggled to clearly convey that to his father. Ex seems to think that our housing and lifestyle is unstable or in some sort of vague peril, and is on about raising the boys as this mission, his proud duty and whatnot. When he really has not done much of the work of it, all along. And what he has done...much of it more harm than good, in my opinion. As usual, wishing I'd managed to choose a better man to father my offspring, if I was meant to have offspring at all. But c'est la vie, the bell cannot be un-rung and here we are. And he seems...maybe?...to be all afire with the idea for me to get out of the city as soon as humanly possible.
The only thing that I'm even possibly holding him back from doing here, is going to Voodoo, which he's mentioned occasionally. He seems to believe he might find a partner there, or at least get laid, and maybe be able to top women, which I have the sense is a desire to vent anger at the female gender by beating on someone ("but I can be professional about it. And I'd make sure to get their consent of course.") The issue here in my opinion is that he really doesn't have much empathy and he tends to be an offensive and obnoxious person, and if anyone has a problem with what he says or does, to claim it's their issue and not his. I just don't see this mentality going over very well in the community. He's also very shamey and judgmental toward anyone who isn't like him...and he would be a Trump loving conservative in a room full of LGBTQ+ people. I see so many areas where this could go horribly sideways I just don't even know where to start.
Yet at the same time, I have seen other people use their own interactions with someone, a failed relationship mainly, to form the basis of an opinion that someone (or several people) were toxic and bad for the community, when in fact it was just their own personal connection to them that was a mess. I don't want to be that person, who says, from a definitely biased place, that my Ex is so harmful that he should not be welcome there. And I also feel that if he could potentially grow and learn healthier thinking, who am I to hamper him in doing so? He also believes that if he is in any way, shape, or form, less than completely welcome there, it will be because I "talked shit" about him and "poisoned the well."
All I know is that I would not want anyone I truly care about, subject to his crap, and while he has changed, it's only so much. And not all for the better, as far as I can tell. I see it going badly, and I expect he will blame me if it does.
The only reason he hasn't gone so far is because we had an agreement in the beginning that I would stay out of his social circles and his pool league in particular, and he would stay away from my kink community. Though at one point he tried to unilaterally throw that agreement to the side, I did what I could to hold him to it, insisting that at the very minimum, he restrict his attendance there, should he choose to go, to a few events that I never go to. Such as a particular discussion group where maybe he could ask questions and get answers and see if he's any kind of a fit.
But I don't think he's gone. I think that he is likely waiting until I leave. Then he can go in, tell everyone that whatever I said about him is lies, lies, lies, and try to turn my social group against me so that I never feel welcomed in this city again. I think that's his plan, knowing what I do of his thinking. But I do not think it will work.
Of course he was also talking about dying as soon as possible, making reference to the passive aggressive slow suicide of how badly he treats his body and health, and going on about how he would have a place in Valhalla and I'd better not try to persuade either of our sons to share their life insurance money with me.
I cannot believe I stayed with him for so long. Not for the first or last time, I wish I'd known at a very much younger age, the things I know now.
Spork
Active member
I'm having a good day.
I got together with Fire, Hefe, and a friend of ours yesterday at this awesome steampunk themed coffee shop I love. I need to email them, we are talking about trying to get a regular monthly munch going on, and that would be a very cool place to hold it.
And I'm feeling good about the idea of playing with other people. I updated my fetlife profile with some talk about possibilities I'm considering and what I might be looking for, and a good friend (but someone I hadn't thought to ask specifically if she might want to play) has already reached out to me.
Zen has said he felt like he was oppressing me in a sense because there are parts of me that haven't been able to come out and play, in our connection.
And that is true I guess, to some extent. I see women at the club who are being touched by several people at once, and I think about some of the fantasies that turn me on involving some level of interaction with more than one partner and I just couldn't do that with Zen's previous level of discomfort around other men touching me. It really would be nice to have some of those experiences.
And I still have somewhat mixed feelings about me in a Top role, but I'm feeling positive about it today. Mostly because I am brainstorming and buying toys on Amazon.
Thing is, I really do have a mind full of odd ideas and I come up with new and exciting notions all the time. And because they get convoluted and difficult to explain, it will probably work best if I do most of the setup and execution of them TO other people and call in help if there's a skill I need that I don't have. And hearing some of the educators at classes at Thunder in the Mountains talk about some of their creative stuff just excites and delights me.
Midori talked, for instance, about a sort of evil clown scene. I can think of half a dozen ridiculous and kinky freaky evil carnival games, but I don't have all the skills to pull off all the things. However, I can imagine getting a bottom into a position and clipping balloons all over her and then calling over one of the Domly Doms with the mad singletail skills, to come over and try to pop the balloons. Then I would give him a stuffed animal prize and shoo him off. And I'd be in some sort of clown makeup deal. That idea tickles me! Now that one is not terribly complicated or original, I've heard of something similar with the balloons being done before, but I have lots and lots of ideas.
And it's odd...I shy away from the idea of role play as a bottom or a submissive. I don't really feel comfortable pretending to be a child or a pet or any number of things like that, though dollification does interest me somewhat. But doing an evil clown persona, or a mad scientist thing, or demon Domme character...as a Top/Sadist/Dominant sort of a thing...well now we are talking. That sounds fun.
The parts I still feel weird and scared about... Mostly that has to do with feeling pushed towards this role, like me, as a submissive person, is a thing nobody really wants, and I feel like a part of me has been generally rejected. Other people want me to put back on the armored shell, the "badass" and stand up and be in charge. Which is kind of a lot of work in my opinion, so it's like...no one wants you to receive things that feel good, people just want you to man up and do work. And no one really buys me as a "girl" or a pretty or feminine person, only as my tough, scrappy, DGAF self. Which feels like my wish to express vulnerability was kinda shunned. Because it's like...it's not cool. I dunno.
And then I get all sad because I know that Zen is not a bottom, so if everyone wants me to BE a Top, I struggle to feel safe that our connection will continue to be of interest to him. He will look for women who pull off the submissive thing better than I can, I guess, who deserve that kind of relationship where I do not, that's the icky lingering self-pitying feeling.
He assures me that I am still everything he wants, and that while playing with others might be a lot of fun, I check the boxes for a real life commitment, and I'm the one he wants to marry and be with. I just don't want it to turn into a business partnership. With some element where we are both Sadistic tops, as like a team, and I get to watch him giving joyful engagement and Dominant energy to those pretty young bottoms and I get none of it because he can't even take me seriously that way anymore.
But it's like...the number 1 factor, that caused me to choose this connection and that made it the One, even before I was in love with Zen the man, among all other possibilities, that I wanted to make sure I nurtured and that was so important, was that I wanted a lover who could express some natural Sadism with me. One where doing this kind of play, with pain and an edge of control sexually and all, fed something within them. It is a flow of energy, I need and want it in my sex life very much. I know that if the flow of that gets cut off toward me and especially if I also have to watch it being directed at women who seem to have whatever I lack, that people look at them and think "yummy submissive type" where they look at me and picture me being Dominant instead... If they are cuter, younger, prettier, softer, fluffier, I don't know, any or all of it... I'm not going to handle that very well. Or I guess I could get back out there and try to find a Sadist who can see a masochist in me. But to me that feels like giving up on what has been so magical between Zen and I, turning away from one another, and just being a high functioning team for life reasons, because we both "check boxes" in a sort of logistical way.
So it's like I want to push forward but I also want to pull away, from that whole Dominant role business.
And I know, as I've said several times to Zen, that the whole thing about established partners, where now the NRE has simmered down, being open and dealing with one of them having those blazes of NRE for a new partner...that is scary and disturbing stuff. I know it's been discussed here many times.
So anyways. I'm not saying that I think that is definitively happening or whatever, I'm just trying to capture this quivery, scared, uncertain feeling that keeps fluttering around the edges of my mind, and attempting to define it with words and work out if I've any good reason to worry about it.
I got together with Fire, Hefe, and a friend of ours yesterday at this awesome steampunk themed coffee shop I love. I need to email them, we are talking about trying to get a regular monthly munch going on, and that would be a very cool place to hold it.
And I'm feeling good about the idea of playing with other people. I updated my fetlife profile with some talk about possibilities I'm considering and what I might be looking for, and a good friend (but someone I hadn't thought to ask specifically if she might want to play) has already reached out to me.
Zen has said he felt like he was oppressing me in a sense because there are parts of me that haven't been able to come out and play, in our connection.
And that is true I guess, to some extent. I see women at the club who are being touched by several people at once, and I think about some of the fantasies that turn me on involving some level of interaction with more than one partner and I just couldn't do that with Zen's previous level of discomfort around other men touching me. It really would be nice to have some of those experiences.
And I still have somewhat mixed feelings about me in a Top role, but I'm feeling positive about it today. Mostly because I am brainstorming and buying toys on Amazon.
Thing is, I really do have a mind full of odd ideas and I come up with new and exciting notions all the time. And because they get convoluted and difficult to explain, it will probably work best if I do most of the setup and execution of them TO other people and call in help if there's a skill I need that I don't have. And hearing some of the educators at classes at Thunder in the Mountains talk about some of their creative stuff just excites and delights me.
Midori talked, for instance, about a sort of evil clown scene. I can think of half a dozen ridiculous and kinky freaky evil carnival games, but I don't have all the skills to pull off all the things. However, I can imagine getting a bottom into a position and clipping balloons all over her and then calling over one of the Domly Doms with the mad singletail skills, to come over and try to pop the balloons. Then I would give him a stuffed animal prize and shoo him off. And I'd be in some sort of clown makeup deal. That idea tickles me! Now that one is not terribly complicated or original, I've heard of something similar with the balloons being done before, but I have lots and lots of ideas.
And it's odd...I shy away from the idea of role play as a bottom or a submissive. I don't really feel comfortable pretending to be a child or a pet or any number of things like that, though dollification does interest me somewhat. But doing an evil clown persona, or a mad scientist thing, or demon Domme character...as a Top/Sadist/Dominant sort of a thing...well now we are talking. That sounds fun.
The parts I still feel weird and scared about... Mostly that has to do with feeling pushed towards this role, like me, as a submissive person, is a thing nobody really wants, and I feel like a part of me has been generally rejected. Other people want me to put back on the armored shell, the "badass" and stand up and be in charge. Which is kind of a lot of work in my opinion, so it's like...no one wants you to receive things that feel good, people just want you to man up and do work. And no one really buys me as a "girl" or a pretty or feminine person, only as my tough, scrappy, DGAF self. Which feels like my wish to express vulnerability was kinda shunned. Because it's like...it's not cool. I dunno.
And then I get all sad because I know that Zen is not a bottom, so if everyone wants me to BE a Top, I struggle to feel safe that our connection will continue to be of interest to him. He will look for women who pull off the submissive thing better than I can, I guess, who deserve that kind of relationship where I do not, that's the icky lingering self-pitying feeling.
He assures me that I am still everything he wants, and that while playing with others might be a lot of fun, I check the boxes for a real life commitment, and I'm the one he wants to marry and be with. I just don't want it to turn into a business partnership. With some element where we are both Sadistic tops, as like a team, and I get to watch him giving joyful engagement and Dominant energy to those pretty young bottoms and I get none of it because he can't even take me seriously that way anymore.
But it's like...the number 1 factor, that caused me to choose this connection and that made it the One, even before I was in love with Zen the man, among all other possibilities, that I wanted to make sure I nurtured and that was so important, was that I wanted a lover who could express some natural Sadism with me. One where doing this kind of play, with pain and an edge of control sexually and all, fed something within them. It is a flow of energy, I need and want it in my sex life very much. I know that if the flow of that gets cut off toward me and especially if I also have to watch it being directed at women who seem to have whatever I lack, that people look at them and think "yummy submissive type" where they look at me and picture me being Dominant instead... If they are cuter, younger, prettier, softer, fluffier, I don't know, any or all of it... I'm not going to handle that very well. Or I guess I could get back out there and try to find a Sadist who can see a masochist in me. But to me that feels like giving up on what has been so magical between Zen and I, turning away from one another, and just being a high functioning team for life reasons, because we both "check boxes" in a sort of logistical way.
So it's like I want to push forward but I also want to pull away, from that whole Dominant role business.
And I know, as I've said several times to Zen, that the whole thing about established partners, where now the NRE has simmered down, being open and dealing with one of them having those blazes of NRE for a new partner...that is scary and disturbing stuff. I know it's been discussed here many times.
So anyways. I'm not saying that I think that is definitively happening or whatever, I'm just trying to capture this quivery, scared, uncertain feeling that keeps fluttering around the edges of my mind, and attempting to define it with words and work out if I've any good reason to worry about it.
Spork
Active member
Another good day today!
Zen and I had some QT last night, we watched an episode of a show we're enjoying called Gentleman Jack on HBO, and then we played with some of my new sensation toys I picked up. I wish I could magically make more hours appear on demand because I'd also have liked to have had sex but it was a fun night anyways. And I'm having good conversations with a friend I work with, and I find very attractive, though I don't know if she'd be into me necessarily I'm still enthusiastic about spending time with her. We're making plans to hang out.
She also wants to read up on BDSM...I have some good books, and so does Zen, but in addition to our selections if anyone else here has recommendations on good books about kink, please share them! I've got a couple of things I want to lend to her. Not erotic fiction, but more like how-to's and best-practices.
Zen and I had some QT last night, we watched an episode of a show we're enjoying called Gentleman Jack on HBO, and then we played with some of my new sensation toys I picked up. I wish I could magically make more hours appear on demand because I'd also have liked to have had sex but it was a fun night anyways. And I'm having good conversations with a friend I work with, and I find very attractive, though I don't know if she'd be into me necessarily I'm still enthusiastic about spending time with her. We're making plans to hang out.
She also wants to read up on BDSM...I have some good books, and so does Zen, but in addition to our selections if anyone else here has recommendations on good books about kink, please share them! I've got a couple of things I want to lend to her. Not erotic fiction, but more like how-to's and best-practices.
Spork
Active member
My coworker-friend is planning to go to Thunder in the Mountains! I'm SUPER excited about that.
I do not get the impression that she has any attraction to me or desire to date me, so I'm not pushing things in that direction or trying to inject that kind of energy into our interactions. I would want some sign of that kind of interest, and as of now I just do not have it.
I'm attracted to her, sure. I think she's beautiful and very cool. But I question if I am her "type" or if she's even into women. And I'm 110% enthusiastic to simply be her friend. I want to encourage her in her desire to proceed into kink with a more careful and informed approach, taking fewer risks than she once did (last year, when it seemed like a sort of frenzy was going on there.)
I'm gonna call it "NFE" or "New Friend Energy" lol! I can get pretty jazzed over opportunities to build nonsexual connections.
I think a thing that has bummed me out some lately is that my social media kind of sucks. I know, it's just social media...but my Facebook is all panicked explosions over the states restricting or eliminating abortion rights for women, and fear over challenges to Roe v. Wade to come. I hate thinking about politics but I'm thinking about politics.
I mean, I have generally liked being an Independent voter. But things have been pushing me further left. My issue has always been about trust. I can see some of the things that make people want to lean conservative as being valid. I can see valid points in forms of libertarianism, and also forms of socialism....well. Forms that are closer to liberalism than true socialism. But I've always felt that politicians running under the aegis of whatever party don't always do what they say they'll do.
Like, the thing of smaller central government, more states' rights, better economy, less debt, lower taxes...in the conservative camp... Along with the fear that liberals don't actually care about minorities or regular people at all, they just want to tax heavily and steal our money and not do things that benefit any of us with it... OK, I get that. Right? But the problem I have is that the pro-conservative "freedom from taxation" tends to be a lie. The power of the central government hasn't diminished, the taxes haven't decreased and for some in certain circumstances, have actually gone up, it's all crony capitalism and they're "stealing our tax money" for bullshit as rampantly as any administration ever has. The debt has been increasing.
And during Obama's time in office, while I do question and criticize some of his policies, yes, certainly...we at least did see more freedom for gay people to get married, drug laws being changed, somewhat more freedoms for how people live their lives. And my taxes did not increase noticeably (my real tax liability per dollar of income, not my refunds) during his time in office. They seem to steadily climb a little every year, but they did not do so significantly more under liberal leadership.
I understand that gun ownership seems like a sacred right enshrined not only in our constitution, but in our culture. And I totally get that if you don't live in the city, it makes damn good sense to have a gun, there are still very dangerous wild animals in rural places, and other reasons, though I question the realism of some of the rationale of gun nuts, and guns make me personally uncomfortable...I do get it. But Obama said again and again, "People, I am not trying to come and take your guns away from you!" And damn, he DIDN'T do that.
I can't quite get with the libertarians despite agreeing with many of the principles, because I do think that some regulation should exist to check the free market, and I don't think that a very free market is the solution to everything. I feel that big business and big government are in bed together and that is wrong, and harmful to our planet to to society, much of the time. People could just vote with their dollars, but they don't. You can hate Walmart all you want, but if you're poor or just don't like overspending, you might well end up shopping there, not to mention they have convenience, with all the things in one place at least moderately well priced, and we're all busy people.... And when it comes to health care, I want it to be socialized.
That is one that Zen and I won't agree on. He does ask the questions about having to subsidize the unhealthy choices of other people. But you know, we already do. Seriously. When people cannot afford their own health care, no matter the reason, and default on their bills, the public picks up the cost. And with private insurance, we cover the costs of everyone, even people whose lifestyle choices we don't agree with. It's just that right now, we have these for-profit middlemen standing squarely between us, and our doctors, and raking up their share.
I wish we had a means by which the government could do what the people need of it, and be 100% transparent about every cent. Independently audited. Something. That's my only issue with liberalism, truly, is that when you give the go-ahead for the government to collect taxes and handle a public need, they won't use that money appropriately and they'll skim it heavily, appropriate it for other things, etc. I'd be willing to pay far higher taxes if I had confidence that the funds would be used as I'm told they're going to be used.
But I believe, really, that there are global interests who have made it a mission, going back a long while now, to destabilize America. Get it to the point where we don't trust our media, don't trust our government, have no confidence in our electoral system, and are so polarized and divided so fiercely that we're practically begging to be broken up into multiple sovereign states. And to be honest, I cannot blame them, the way this country has conducted its foreign policy in my lifetime, and before. We just simply are not the good guys in the white hats. Maybe we never have been.
So my Facebook is a damned bummer. I'm sick of seeing posts everywhere about these states making it so that an 11 year old who was raped has to bear her rapist's child. The rapist can probably then sue for visitation, so she'll have to be seeing him for years to come. Great. That's just great. And the states making these bans, some of them have the highest maternal and infant mortality rates, high poverty, bad education... Ugh. It's horrible.
I feel like the things I hate about the conservative side, they're totally doing, and the things I like about the conservative side, have been lies, and the things that I worry about with the liberal side, haven't really been a big huge deal, but the things I want from the liberal side, at least some of them were happening. And corruption? It's everywhere. But hey, as I've said before, the Marquis de Sade called that one, like over 200 years ago. Nothing new.
Moving along, I go and check fetlife. It's boring, and nothing is going on there. I'm going to do an experiment. I think I'm going to go to the Photography Night at the club next Monday night, and get some pictures taken. Hopefully some at least won't suck. I'll then put in some new photos there and change my profile picture. I cannot lie. I hear constantly, and sometimes see, when friends have their profiles open, how women on fet get barraged with interest. While I don't necessarily need the fuckboys shaking my tree...the fact that every time I log in there, it's silence, nothing and no one interacting with me almost always, and very little when there is anything...
I'm tired of feeling insecure and I struggle with how not to. It sucks. So maybe doing something with my photos there, adding some new stuff, might make me feel somewhat better.
I've been thinking (hoping?) that the reason I don't get much interaction there is because I have my collar as my profile pic and because I've got a long list of the ooshy mooshy relationship descriptors with Zen. Maybe, with a conversation beforehand, we could try to choose a few that are the most appropriate and make the most sense to us. The blast of them was really touching and adorable when we first did it, but it might spook new partners if we want to be more open in our play options. I dunno. Worth talking to him about anyhow.
(For anyone not on fetlife, this is "lover of: x, it's complicated with: x, submissive to: x, owned by: x, student of: x, under protection of: x, sadomasochist with: x" and so on and so forth. We both put a whole lot of these on our profile at one point.)
The other thing is, if I can feel like I am winning and being competent and successful at other things, that would help me a lot. It's the fact that I've struggled to get my energy together to get some of my club related responsibilities done as I need to. It's there in the difficulties I have with my sons, how hard it's been to get them motivated toward independence. It's in the fact that I haven't made any finished art projects in a long time, and the last one I hit a point that I just can't seem to get past, on how to paint the damned thing (it is a sculpture.) I just feel kind of useless, and that's contributing to the general feelings of questioning my own worth and validity. I don't feel that I am being anything hot, nor doing anything cool.
I do not get the impression that she has any attraction to me or desire to date me, so I'm not pushing things in that direction or trying to inject that kind of energy into our interactions. I would want some sign of that kind of interest, and as of now I just do not have it.
I'm attracted to her, sure. I think she's beautiful and very cool. But I question if I am her "type" or if she's even into women. And I'm 110% enthusiastic to simply be her friend. I want to encourage her in her desire to proceed into kink with a more careful and informed approach, taking fewer risks than she once did (last year, when it seemed like a sort of frenzy was going on there.)
I'm gonna call it "NFE" or "New Friend Energy" lol! I can get pretty jazzed over opportunities to build nonsexual connections.
I think a thing that has bummed me out some lately is that my social media kind of sucks. I know, it's just social media...but my Facebook is all panicked explosions over the states restricting or eliminating abortion rights for women, and fear over challenges to Roe v. Wade to come. I hate thinking about politics but I'm thinking about politics.
I mean, I have generally liked being an Independent voter. But things have been pushing me further left. My issue has always been about trust. I can see some of the things that make people want to lean conservative as being valid. I can see valid points in forms of libertarianism, and also forms of socialism....well. Forms that are closer to liberalism than true socialism. But I've always felt that politicians running under the aegis of whatever party don't always do what they say they'll do.
Like, the thing of smaller central government, more states' rights, better economy, less debt, lower taxes...in the conservative camp... Along with the fear that liberals don't actually care about minorities or regular people at all, they just want to tax heavily and steal our money and not do things that benefit any of us with it... OK, I get that. Right? But the problem I have is that the pro-conservative "freedom from taxation" tends to be a lie. The power of the central government hasn't diminished, the taxes haven't decreased and for some in certain circumstances, have actually gone up, it's all crony capitalism and they're "stealing our tax money" for bullshit as rampantly as any administration ever has. The debt has been increasing.
And during Obama's time in office, while I do question and criticize some of his policies, yes, certainly...we at least did see more freedom for gay people to get married, drug laws being changed, somewhat more freedoms for how people live their lives. And my taxes did not increase noticeably (my real tax liability per dollar of income, not my refunds) during his time in office. They seem to steadily climb a little every year, but they did not do so significantly more under liberal leadership.
I understand that gun ownership seems like a sacred right enshrined not only in our constitution, but in our culture. And I totally get that if you don't live in the city, it makes damn good sense to have a gun, there are still very dangerous wild animals in rural places, and other reasons, though I question the realism of some of the rationale of gun nuts, and guns make me personally uncomfortable...I do get it. But Obama said again and again, "People, I am not trying to come and take your guns away from you!" And damn, he DIDN'T do that.
I can't quite get with the libertarians despite agreeing with many of the principles, because I do think that some regulation should exist to check the free market, and I don't think that a very free market is the solution to everything. I feel that big business and big government are in bed together and that is wrong, and harmful to our planet to to society, much of the time. People could just vote with their dollars, but they don't. You can hate Walmart all you want, but if you're poor or just don't like overspending, you might well end up shopping there, not to mention they have convenience, with all the things in one place at least moderately well priced, and we're all busy people.... And when it comes to health care, I want it to be socialized.
That is one that Zen and I won't agree on. He does ask the questions about having to subsidize the unhealthy choices of other people. But you know, we already do. Seriously. When people cannot afford their own health care, no matter the reason, and default on their bills, the public picks up the cost. And with private insurance, we cover the costs of everyone, even people whose lifestyle choices we don't agree with. It's just that right now, we have these for-profit middlemen standing squarely between us, and our doctors, and raking up their share.
I wish we had a means by which the government could do what the people need of it, and be 100% transparent about every cent. Independently audited. Something. That's my only issue with liberalism, truly, is that when you give the go-ahead for the government to collect taxes and handle a public need, they won't use that money appropriately and they'll skim it heavily, appropriate it for other things, etc. I'd be willing to pay far higher taxes if I had confidence that the funds would be used as I'm told they're going to be used.
But I believe, really, that there are global interests who have made it a mission, going back a long while now, to destabilize America. Get it to the point where we don't trust our media, don't trust our government, have no confidence in our electoral system, and are so polarized and divided so fiercely that we're practically begging to be broken up into multiple sovereign states. And to be honest, I cannot blame them, the way this country has conducted its foreign policy in my lifetime, and before. We just simply are not the good guys in the white hats. Maybe we never have been.
So my Facebook is a damned bummer. I'm sick of seeing posts everywhere about these states making it so that an 11 year old who was raped has to bear her rapist's child. The rapist can probably then sue for visitation, so she'll have to be seeing him for years to come. Great. That's just great. And the states making these bans, some of them have the highest maternal and infant mortality rates, high poverty, bad education... Ugh. It's horrible.
I feel like the things I hate about the conservative side, they're totally doing, and the things I like about the conservative side, have been lies, and the things that I worry about with the liberal side, haven't really been a big huge deal, but the things I want from the liberal side, at least some of them were happening. And corruption? It's everywhere. But hey, as I've said before, the Marquis de Sade called that one, like over 200 years ago. Nothing new.
Moving along, I go and check fetlife. It's boring, and nothing is going on there. I'm going to do an experiment. I think I'm going to go to the Photography Night at the club next Monday night, and get some pictures taken. Hopefully some at least won't suck. I'll then put in some new photos there and change my profile picture. I cannot lie. I hear constantly, and sometimes see, when friends have their profiles open, how women on fet get barraged with interest. While I don't necessarily need the fuckboys shaking my tree...the fact that every time I log in there, it's silence, nothing and no one interacting with me almost always, and very little when there is anything...
I'm tired of feeling insecure and I struggle with how not to. It sucks. So maybe doing something with my photos there, adding some new stuff, might make me feel somewhat better.
I've been thinking (hoping?) that the reason I don't get much interaction there is because I have my collar as my profile pic and because I've got a long list of the ooshy mooshy relationship descriptors with Zen. Maybe, with a conversation beforehand, we could try to choose a few that are the most appropriate and make the most sense to us. The blast of them was really touching and adorable when we first did it, but it might spook new partners if we want to be more open in our play options. I dunno. Worth talking to him about anyhow.
(For anyone not on fetlife, this is "lover of: x, it's complicated with: x, submissive to: x, owned by: x, student of: x, under protection of: x, sadomasochist with: x" and so on and so forth. We both put a whole lot of these on our profile at one point.)
The other thing is, if I can feel like I am winning and being competent and successful at other things, that would help me a lot. It's the fact that I've struggled to get my energy together to get some of my club related responsibilities done as I need to. It's there in the difficulties I have with my sons, how hard it's been to get them motivated toward independence. It's in the fact that I haven't made any finished art projects in a long time, and the last one I hit a point that I just can't seem to get past, on how to paint the damned thing (it is a sculpture.) I just feel kind of useless, and that's contributing to the general feelings of questioning my own worth and validity. I don't feel that I am being anything hot, nor doing anything cool.