Anyone ever been in a poly relationship where the primary partner was monogamous?

[Shadow715]

I'm not totally sure where to start, or even if I'm in the right place. All I know is I need a lot of help. So I guess I'll start from the beginning.

My fiance (henceforth referred to as W) and I have been together for a little over 2 years. Strictly monogamous until about 8 months ago. W is into DDLG, which I do not fulfill for him, and I am bisexual, so we thought the best course of action to fulfill that for him while I also got something out of it was to find a 3rd, on a trial basis. This was something we came up with together, not something he pushed on me. He has not been in a poly relationship before but says it's something hes considered in the past. I've cheated on prior boyfriends, but never even thought about it if I was in love with who I was with, if that makes Ny sense, and i am monogamous. I thought that, especially in our situation, poly made sense in theory, so i was willing to give it a go, as long as i could end it if i decided it wasnt for me. So that was the original agreement.

The first girl he started talking to, i totally hit it off with. She was fantastic. But there was a major distance issue, so the whole thing was still totally in theory, and that's eventually part of why we broke up.

Then came E. 100% straight, not even remotely bi-curious, and naive as all hell. But he fell for her instantly. Texting at all hours, making no time for me, half the time i dont think he knew if I was there or not. We met her for the first time in June. I was extremely anxious (understandably), but agreed to go along with it. We got a hotel room for two nights and picked her up.

It went downhill almost immediately. The first time they had sex (yes I was in the room, because it was supposed to be a threesome situation but he told me I wouldnt be part of it until the second night) i lost it. I started a text fight with him when they were done(i promised not to make a scene in front of her, so i texted him instead of fighting verbally), telling him i couldn't so this, it was not ok, i would never be ok with this. He tells me to calm down, we'll talk about it later. The three of us cuddled up together in the bed with him in the middle and went to sleep. Or at least, I went to sleep. They decided to stay up all night talking and having sex in the bed next to me while I slept, which I eventually woke up to and I am just left.

I tried to talk to him calmly about it, tell him that the trial situation was over, I cant do this, seeing them being intimate broke my heart. Even the thought of them together, or him with any other girl for that matter, breaks my heart. He refused to break up with her. He told me that he loves her, he wants her, and that I was just making up excuses to be mad and hate her because I had to watch them have sex without me. He wouldnt listen to me telling him how it made me feel.

Two months later, they exchanged promise rings when they saw each other again. Not a word of it to me until after it happened, even though they had been planning it for over a month.

Somewhere in the middle of all this, shes been trying to convince him to leave me eventually and only be hers, and for awhile, he entertained that thought and told her that I would always be in the picture because I'm his best friend, but it would at some point become platonic. He has now started telling her the same thing he tells me, that he needs both of us and neither of us are enough for him on our own.

I have no say in anything. They still text constantly, and now he makes me leave him alone entirely for an hour every day so they can video chat. We're always together, but he doesnt pay any attention to me, we only really ever talk about work (we work together so it's not like we can have long conversations about it because we both already know most of what happened every day) and we never go on dates (that's more of a financial issue, but still an annoyance). He wakes up before I do and is already texting when I get up, and hes still texting well after I go to bed, with no real break in the middle to spend time with me.

I dont want to lose him, and I've been trying to figure out how to be ok with being in a poly relationship, but it kills me to know that I'm not enough for him.

I guess what I'm looking for is advice from someone who's been in a similar situation, either a poly with a mono partner, or a mono with a poly partner. How did you deal with the inherent differences in values and ideals of what a loving relationship should be? Do you ever get over it? Do you ever learn to accept that you'll never be their only one?

 

[FallenAngelina]

While waiting for others to reply to your specific situation, I'll mention that this topic comes up frequently here. Have you looked at the many other threads about this? Lots of wisdom and good experience in them. I encourage you to spend some time reading the many conversations about this here.

 

[GalaGirl]

I can only imagine how much it all hurts. I'm so sorry.

I tried to talk to him calmly about it, tell him that the trial situation was over, I cant do this, seeing them being intimate broke my heart. Even the thought of them together, or him with any other girl for that matter, breaks my heart.

Then why agree to a triad thing in the first place? You didn't know this ahead of time?

W is into DDLG, which I do not fulfill for him, and I am bisexual, so we thought the best course of action to fulfill that for him while I also got something out of it was to find a 3rd, on a trial basis.

I'm not sure why the solution had to involve you ALSO dating this 3rd person in a triad. That is one of the hardest models. AND sharing group sex? Even if people are in a triad with all 3 dating each other and sharing love and sex with each other? That doesn't automatically mean they want to be doing group sex.

Could have been him having a play partner or other GF for the DD/lg thing. And you dating someone else entirely if you wanted to see a 4th person. NOT sharing the new 3rd person.

I think this triad idea was not a good choice to make. Maybe you didn't know ahead of time and going through the experience made you realize "No, I actually do NOT want to share my partner with others."

I hope you weren't saying ok just to the triad thing just to avoid a break up or "I don't want to lose him" type stuff.

You have to take care of YOU first. You have be able to say "I love you a lot, but I have to love me too. Not even for you am I going to do stuff that hurts me." Do NOT make any new agreements that hurt you. It is necessary self care to know and respect one's personal limits/preferences.

Then came E. 100% straight, not even remotely bi-curious, and naive as all hell. But he fell for her instantly. Texting at all hours, making no time for me, half the time i dont think he knew if I was there or not. We met her for the first time in June. I was extremely anxious (understandably), but agreed to go along with it. We got a hotel room for two nights and picked her up.

Was E aware that the dating expectation was to date the both of you? And she's straight? Why weren't agreements renegotiated to be just him as a hinge with two GFs? You and then E?

Why would you go along with a hotel group sex hook-up thing when you are extremely anxious? Rather than stay home? And he goes to see his new dating person on his own?

I think you could listen to your feelings and only do things from "joyful yes."

I thought that, especially in our situation, poly made sense in theory, so i was willing to give it a go, as long as i could end it if i decided it wasnt for me. So that was the original agreement.

Now that you found out is not for you after all? You can end it and walk away.

Just because he says HE needs you and her both? So what? He is not the boss of all 3 people. If he votes yes? The rest still have to vote. It still has to be a 3 person yes for any 3 person model to move forward. You cannot DRAG people into stuff.

If you are done with it entirely because it is not for you? You are not up for a poly triad where you date her too? And you are not up for a poly V thing? Just no poly at all because him being with other people breaks you heart? State you want monogamy and since this is not it? You bow out then. You can ask him to consider going back to monogamous shape model... and he can consider it and give you his answer.

Let the chips fall where they may as the others make their choices/vote. THIS model is done.

But basically you don't sound like you want to keep going with this triad model -- so just don't participate in that.

Poly + group sex + DD/lg kink + triad -- each thing by itself is a big change for a lot of people much less all three piled on top of each other!

In future I would suggest being more careful how you make agreements and think things out more. Esp if just the thought of your partner having other partners bothers you? If you prefer monogamous relating? There is NOTHING wrong with that.

Galagirl

 

[Shadow715]

Galagirl-

I dont really understand yet how to use the quote function, so I'm just going to respond to your comments piece by piece in order.

1. I agreed to it because I had never been in any similar situation before, and I was curious to see where it went. It was an experiment for me. In theory, poly makes so much sense to my logical brain, and I had no idea that I would react to it as badly as I did, or that it would hurt me so much.

2. The reason for us going about it as a triad has a few parts. A) I have a severe fear of abandonment and a lot of insecurity (a lot of mental health issues going on in the background here), and I thought that maybe if it was a WE thing not a HIM thing, there was less possibility of him leaving me for her. B) I'm very socially awkward (not in general really, but as far as dating) and we thought it would be easier on me mentally if he found a girl we could both be attracted to, rather than me deal with the going out and finding a girlfriend on my own and have the anxiety of rejection if something went south. C) I am bisexual, but have never been with a woman, and it was really another huge anxiety issue for him to help me work through. D) A threesome is something we've both always wanted to try at least once.

3. This also is a bit of a complication, but was necessary. At this point, I was still willing to try being in a triad. It was our first time meeting E, and i still didnt think i would react that badly to them having sex. I have a major anxiety disorder. Anxious and freaked out is kind of baseline for me, so we decided to continue on a step-by-step basis, see what happens and we can change things as issues come about. Even if I had decided I wasnt ready to make that step, i would have still had to tag along. E lives a few hours away from us with no access to a car, and W has some medical issues that make me weary of letting him drive by himself unless hes staying local (within 10 min drive of wherever I am). And we didn't have the funds for me to get a separate hotel room for the two nights we were going to be in her city. Even if we had, the agreement was still that it was a (A+W+E) relationship, not a (A+W) and (W+E) separate thing. (I didnt state this before, but I'm A, or you can call me Shadow, your choice)

4. I'm not willing to bow out and let the chips fall quite yet. That's why I'm here. W and I have had several long talks over the past months since this first disastrous meeting took place, and we decided (more of W made an ultimatum, which I saw as actually a fair deal after a bit of a meltdown that calmed into real understanding) that he needs us both, but he sees that it hurts me. That's why it devolved into a V instead of a triad. Most of what happens between either side is DADT, but i get pertinent information from him that i have to have. Eg, when they're going to be seeing each other, when shes having medical issues and needs more attention from him (she had surgery last month), stuff like that. The deal is, hes going to continue this relationship with E for 1 year. That's how long I have to try to work through my jealousy and abandonment issues and decide if I can handle this long term. If I can, great. If not, he has promised to break it off with her at the end of that year.

 

[Shadow715]

I also somehow missed the questions specifically about E.

The short version to this is that she was sheltered her entire childhood. And shes still a teenager (of legal age, dont worry) with very little sexual experience. After talking that one over and a couple of arguments between W and I, i decided to give him time on that one. We were kind of hoping that she was saying she was completely straight because of being sheltered, but that she would become open to it as she became more exposed to it. And she did kind of support that theory by being agreeable to a threesome situation in which she was willing to kiss me, and allow me to touch her, perform oral, etc, but that she didnt want to touch me back until she decided she was comfortable with it.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Shadow715,
Are You in Poly Hell?

It sounds like W is all caught up in NRE for E, like he is unaware of your needs, or even unaware of your presence. It also sounds like you are the struggling mono in a mono/poly relationship. Here are some links that might help in that area:

• The Struggling Mono Thread
• Mono/Non-Mono - Struggling to Accept
• Poly/mono advice wanted: about not feeling "enough"
• Being monogamous in a poly relationship
• mono/poly
• Mono boyfriend having trouble coping
• Franklin Veaux's Mono/Poly Pages
• Mono/Poly Yahoo Group
• Al99
• Unexpectedly Poly
• Things his wife did right
• YouAreHere
• Blog thread: A Mono's Journey Into Poly-Land (or, "Aw hell, there's no road map?!")
• Slightly more polished blog with a mono/poly focus: From Baltic to Boardwalk
• The Mono Bill of Rights

To summarize, you should not agree to anything you don't feel good about. Right now you are dealing with a double load, first W is retaining his relationship with E when he had promised he would break up with her if you asked him to. And second, he is totally neglecting you, in favor of his shiny new relationship. And apparently he knows he is hurting you, but he still continues doing it. Does he love you? If he does, how does he show it?

I have a list of jealousy links too, if you think that would help. Let me know.
Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[Shadow715]

Kevin -

I've read Poly Hell, a few times over the last 24 hours since I found this site. I actually just forwarded that article to W a couple minutes ago because he saw me reading it on my phone and got curious when I put my phone down and walked away for a minute.

He does love me (he says?) and hes my best friend, but he doesnt outwardly show it much. We spend the vast majority of our time together (prob about 90%) which says a lot considering we're both introverts, but all we really do together is watch tv or play video games. He kisses me, but not the way he used to. He wont hold my hand unless I practically beg, and even then it's only for a minute or two before he gets too fidgety.

I would love those articles on jealousy. Maybe if I can work past the jealousy, he'll see that that isnt my main problem.

 

[GalaGirl]

Thank you for more info. I mean all this kindly, ok? I suggest you PAUSE. Take a time out to think and reflect. Not just jump into new deals and new agreements.

If at core, you are monoamorous (want to love 1 sweetie) and monogamous (want to be in a 1:1 relationship model, no other people)? Then you being in a poly v is not going to be any better than a poly triad. Because it is not a 1:1 model.

I think "mono-poly" works when the mono person is monoamorous (wants to love 1 sweetie) and is relationship shape flexible. Like they can do monogamy 1:1, or are ok in poly models as end points in a V or N or other polycule.

so i was willing to give it a go, as long as i could end it if i decided it wasnt for me. So that was the original agreement.

Sounds like you were willing to go there, but didn't know how it would be. You didn't feel good, you wanted to stop and return to how it was. And W did not keep the original agreement. He's not gonna stop.

I'm not a fan of the veto thing, but I assume that people who make that agreement are all aware, all ok with it, and will actually Keep Their Word.

He's not keeping his. Is that deal breaker to you? What ARE your deal breakers in this relationship? Do you have those well articulated to yourself and to W?

Anxious and freaked out is kind of baseline for me, so we decided to continue on a step-by-step basis, see what happens and we can change things as issues come about.

Before this relationship were you also at a baseline of anxious and freaked out? Or is this since being here?

You guys dropped the other potential for distance reasons. This one could have been dropped due to financial hurdles or the teen age. She may be legal, but the human brain is not done growing til after the teen years. In a lot of places people are still considered dependents as teens. So if her parents get wind of this that could be problems for both of you.

When the issue of tight finances came up -- y'all didn't slow down to deal with that step by step? No waiting to save up for extra hotel room? No waiting to save up for transportation? No changing the kind of date to something more affordable - like a day visit and lunch/movie or something?

Sounds like neither one is keeping their word on that agreement either -- the step by step thing.

Even if I had decided I wasnt ready to make that step, i would have still had to tag along. E lives a few hours away from us with no access to a car, and W has some medical issues that make me weary of letting him drive by himself unless he's staying local.

No. You do not. E can take Uber, Lfyt, taxi, bus, etc. So can W.

I sometimes see people posting about stuff on here they they HAD to do this or that because of the cost of travel, hotel, transportation or whatever. I think it creates pressure and a false sense of urgency. Like "we have to pack it ALL into this weekend! We don't know when there will be another time!" or something. And then in the rushing, poor decisions get made.

Could have waited to save up the money for a separate hotel room.

Or saved up to make other transportation arrangements. He is an adult person. He can figure his transportation needs out. You do not HAVE to be his driver. Before you were around 2+ years ago, I assume he figured out his transportation needs on his own. He could do it again.

Done some different more affordable dating activities -- lunch + movie or whatever. Not jump into weekend hotel group sex that's more expensive.

we decided (more of W made an ultimatum, which I saw as actually a fair deal after a bit of a meltdown that calmed into real understanding) that he needs us both, but he sees that it hurts me.

I think being safe is a need. I think being in a V is a WANT. Not need.

So he sees this hurts you, and he's not going to stop. Or cut you loose. What he wants comes above the health of the people.

This is fair and healthy relating to you?

That's why it devolved into a V instead of a triad. Most of what happens between either side is DADT, but i get pertinent information from him that i have to have. Eg, when they're going to be seeing each other, when shes having medical issues and needs more attention from him (she had surgery last month), stuff like that. The deal is, hes going to continue this relationship with E for 1 year. That's how long I have to try to work through my jealousy and abandonment issues and decide if I can handle this long term.

So you got a "get with the program" kind of ultimatum?

And working through your abandonment issues was not a thing to do during preparation time BEFORE even opening the relationship?

To me? You both agreed to stop if you didn't feel great. You did not feel great. He did not stop.

That's a deal breaker to me.

He doesn't offer you a new deal. Just says how it is like ultimatum. He announces he's still gonna date her and you have a year to get with it. Well, you are not obligated to sign up for this new deal on those terms if you don't like it.

Do not mistake "basics" like telling you his calendar and if she has surgery as "good and fair." Is this fair to ALL?

Was E part of this deal making? Is E happy about you two making decisions that affect her? Is she is ok with it that W will dump her in a year if you aren't happy participating in a V thing? Or she also got an ultimatum from W?

If it were the other way around would YOU like that? Like E+W made an agreement that if she's not good with it, he'll just dump you a year out from now?

This is fair to all people involved?

I am also concerned for E. She's a sheltered teen. Possibly gullible. And he wants to be her DD? But THIS is how he takes care of you and E? All wonky sounding and not keeping agreements and stuff? And what about her? She's sexually inexperienced so instead of finding a partner her own age and take it slow, she's just gonna dive into the deep end and sign up for dating a couple of strangers, group sex, and DD/lg stuff?

I'll be honest. I wouldn't touch that with a 10 ft pole. My spouse taking up with some teen in a kink dynamic when he can't even deal in the regular life stuff like budget or transportation? Or the poly balancing as a hinge? Now there's kink too? I do not need angry parents coming to my door. Or the teen herself acting out and making drama if things don't go her way.

I have anxiety. One of the ways I manage it is to be REALLY picky about what I expose myself to and get involved in. And be really firm about my decisions. If I feel pressured to decide something I'm just gonna say "Not giving me time to think so I'll just decide based on info to date. The answer is NO, not a joyful yes" and then extricate myself from the situation.

If I can, great. If not, he has promised to break it off with her at the end of that year.

And this is based on what trustworthiness? Since he already promised to end it in the original agreement and didn't. And now he's promising to end it a year out of you aren't good with it. What happens if he doesn't end it in a year? Just kick the can down the road again?

Or will you say "No. I love you lots but I have to love me too. Not even for you will I do stuff / continue in stuff that hurts me."

This whole thing doesn't sound like a great start or esp. healthy to me.

You don't sound like you feel good participating here. And while there is value to working on your abandonment issues and anxiety things that hold you back from enjoying your life more? You could do it for your OWN health improvement.

Not do it just to keep going with W and this V model or because he gave an ultimatum. He can suggest whatever and even make ultimatums. Yet YOU are still ultimately responsible for YOUR own choices about what you do and do not put up with or participate in. You could not make new agreements or accept new deals when you don't feel good about them. You could practice a PAUSE to think things out more first.

Maybe you think about this "trial year" playing out a different way. Don't break up but have a trial separation. See him sometimes but be mostly on your own for a year so you can work on your anxiety, abandonment, etc. Take that load to digest first. Not that PLUS dealing with poly things.

And W does whatever with E for a year on that side of the V. Then in a year you decide if you want to take on the poly load on then. So you are not taking on ALL the loads at once.

Is that something you could consider since you don't want to outright break up right now?

4. I'm not willing to bow out and let the chips fall quite yet.

Again... what ARE your deal breakers? You don't have to say here, but I hope they are well articulated and W is aware.

So if his behavior runs into your hard limit deal breakers? You keep your agreements with yourself and end it and not just kick the can down the road.

Galagirl

 

[PolyNatural]

How did you deal with the inherent differences in values and ideals of what a loving relationship should be? Do you ever get over it? Do you ever learn to accept that you'll never be their only one?

My best answer is here: Mono-Poly Pairing

 

[Magdlyn]

I'm not totally sure where to start, or even if I'm in the right place.

Hi, Shadow. You are definitely in the right place. I see you didn't read our Guidelines, though. One simple suggestion we make is to choose nicknames for your partners. Just using initials is confusing to readers. I will call your fiance Warren, and his gf Eva. You can choose others, if you want, of course.

My fiance, Warren, and I have been together for a little over 2 years. We were strictly monogamous until about 8 months ago.

First red flag: Your NRE and Warren's NRE (new relationship energy, or infatuation) has just worn off. Things got a bit stale. Warren decided to shake things up for "fun." He'd get a new gf but call it polyamory, and DD/lg!

Warren is into DomDaddy/little girl [kink], which I do not fulfill for him. I am bisexual, so we thought the best course of action to fulfill that for him, while I also got something out of it, was to find a 3rd...

Red flag #2, but I blame mainstream media! It portrays poly as FMF triads constantly. The huge majority of poly shapes are Vs. Triads almost never work out. You both wanted a different woman. There was no miraculous hot bi babe, who was into being someone's "lg" as well, out there for you two to "share."

Also, if Warren wants to do DD/lg kink, has he researched how to do that ethically, at all? There are also many resources around about BDSM. It sounds like you three just jumped into this blind, after maybe looking at some porn, or something.

This was something we came up with together, not something he pushed on me... I am monogamous. I thought that, especially in our situation, poly made sense, in theory, so I was willing to give it a go, as long as I could end it if I decided it wasn't for me.

It sounds like you two did absolutely 0 research into how poly actually works. You got the idea that it sounded fun in theory, and just went with it. The dreams or fantasies newbies have about poly rarely match reality.

I was in the same boat as you back in 1999. I'd read the only available book on poly, The Ethical Slut, however. There was nothing else to go on. Internet was still in its infancy. Now, there are tons of resources, books, websites, podcasts.

My ex h and I decided since I was bi, and he was interested in exploring with another woman too, we would be all "couple-centric" and find a woman to "share." It was a nightmare, since the nice lady we found at first said she was interested sexually in both of us, but it soon turned out she was straight, and didn't trust other women, besides (childhood abuse issues). So they fell in love and I was left out in the cold.

Then came Eva. 100% straight, not even remotely bi-curious, and naive as all hell [and a teenager, to boot]. But he fell for her instantly. Warren was texting her at all hours, making no time for me. Half the time i don't think he knew if I was there or not.

3rd and 4th red flags. She's a teenager! He's totally going whole hog with his NRE, and there is no agreement made between you two for actions to nurture your own relationship, like quality time (or any time). Like date nights, like anything I am sure you enjoyed when he had the NRE for YOU!

We got a hotel room for two nights...

This is not how you start a relationship. Who does that? Text for a while and immediately move to a sex filled 2 day romp in a hotel? That is not polyamory, that is hookup behavior.

Whatever happened to having a coffee first, then maybe having lunch or dinner if the first date goes well? Then maybe you kiss. Then maybe the next date involves sex. This is more common behavior.

This teen is doing risky behavior, as teens do. She "met" some older guy online and goes to meet him for 2 days at a HOTEL? And he brings his fiancee along? What if you two were killers or kidnappers? Who is advising this poor teenager? This kind of behavior causes kids to be kidnapped and harmed regularly. Yikes. I feel bad for her.

It went downhill almost immediately. The first time they had sex, I was in the room, because it was supposed to be a threesome situation, but he told me I wouldn't be part of it until the second night.

I lost it. I started a text fight with him... telling him I would never be OK with this.

Ugh. Why on earth were you in the room to observe your fiance having sex with a teenager, when you weren't "allowed" to even participate? Unless you're a voyeur or cuckquean (which you aren't) this was a recipe for disaster!!

Not a great decision here on your part. Of course you'd be upset. But take responsibility. It was your choice to do this, to be there for that, after Warren was already spending hours texting her and ignoring you, prior to this. Watching them fuck was a very bad idea.

He tells me to calm down...

Isn't is SO helpful (not) when a person tells a person with anxiety issues to just "calm down"?

... I went to sleep. They decided to stay up all night, talking and having sex in the bed next to me...

Also very painful. You should not have been there. That is ridiculous. And why did Warren "make" you agree to a rule that the first night you'd just watch them have sex, but weren't allowed to "participate" in any way? Why couldn't he have also made love to you?

I tried to talk to him calmly about it, tell him that the trial situation was over... He refused to break up with her... He wouldn't listen to me telling him how it made me feel.

This, again, is not how poly works. Read up on it. It doesn't matter if you are mono or not. (And maybe you aren't mono, because you are bi and maybe do want a gf. But this is not polyamory here. This is a breakup.)

Poly is practiced between rational respectful adults. All the needs of all partners should be taken into consideration. He's not YOUR Dom. You don't have to agree to his ultimatums. And even if you were in a D/s dynamic with him, he doesn't get to tell you how to think and how to behave, unless you agree to that. And he's giving you terrible advice. Why are you going along with this? He's acting like a dick. He's not being loving. This is NOT polyamory. This is triangulation (look that term up, if you're not familiar.)

Two months later, they exchanged promise rings... Not a word of it to me... even though they had been planning it for over a month.

Jesus Christ. My ex and his gf also fell hard for each other and declared themselves "soul mates" after a very short time. I fell into a deep depression (we had been married 20 years) and needed meds and 3 years of therapy to recover. I vetoed their relationship after 6 months. My ex went along with the veto, but it was wrong to have a veto. It wasn't fair to his gf. They still had a friendship though, they still loved each other. And 10 years later, my ex and I separated and my ex and this woman finally had freedom to have a real full relationship.

We were all mature adults in our 40s though, when we started. We weren't an older couple taking advantage of a sheltered naive kid.

... she's been trying to convince him to leave me... he entertained that thought...

I've lost count of red flags, but this is what we call "cowgirl" action. In this case, a teenager wants to rope a older man in a committed relationship away from his established partner. Warren is engaged to be married and Eva wants him to break up with his fiancee after only knowing her, the teenager, a couple of months!

And that doesn't get Warren off the hook. He actually considers this. That, right there, would make me dump the guy. You two only have 2 years experience together. You're engaged. But now the NRE is gone. He's going after the new and shiny. He is showing his true colors. Run away from this crap.

... and told her that I would always be in the picture... [but] platonic.

Oh great. Whoopee. You get to be the platonic friend and Eva is the gf. That's not fiance behavior. That's you being friend zoned by a selfish man and an immature teen. Find your self respect and leave this mess.

I have no say in anything. ...Now he makes me leave him alone entirely for an hour every day so they can video chat. We're always together, but he doesn't pay any attention to me, we only really ever talk about work... we never go on dates...

He is already texting when I get up, and he's still texting well after I go to bed... no time for me.

I don't want to lose him... it kills me to know that I'm not enough...

This man sounds terrible for you. Why would you stay with someone who is "killing you"? Again, this isn't a "poly relationship." He doesn't love you anymore, as a partner. You deserve better. Break off the engagement. Get out and get some therapy. Deal with your abandonment issues. You're being emotionally abused, and you're going along with it because you can't see any other options. He has already abandoned you. For a naive teenager! He's there, but not there. Can't you see that?

... Do you ever learn to accept that you'll never be their only one?

Not if he's treating me like shit. No. I'd never "get used" to abuse.

 

[Shadow715]

Galagirl -

Thanks for getting back to me and trying to help me clarify these things. I appreciate it, and I understand the advice comes from a place of kindness and isnt meant to be harsh.

As far as deal breakers and hard limits, I dont so much have them, especially in the sense of expressing them to W. I've always been one of those people of "we'll cross that bridge when we get to it" instead of making decisions about anything before it happens. I'm very flexible about a lot of things, and usually willing to try damn near anything, so it's better than obsessing over what ifs, but I will make it known immediately if something makes my skin crawl.

Anxious has been baseline my entire life. Again, long mental health history. The anxiety disorder is just the only relevant part right now.

The other potential actually dropped us, not the other way around. He's age isnt an issue because we are both in our 20s (W closer to 30, me mid 20s) and it's his preference, which I'm ok with. Her parents know about their relationship and how old W is, and have met him a few times. They weren't happy about it at first, actively fighting it originally, but have since relaxed a bit. And they do know about me, but not the whole story.

The tight finances is also kind of baseline for us. We had saved up for awhile to afford that trip as it was, and when the anxiety about the trip started, I was still willing to go. At that point, I actually wanted to meet her. I was actually kind of excited about it all the way up until they had sex. We had already made the drive, hotel room paid for, no money for a second room.

W has structured it as 2 fully separated relationships. I only get pertinent information. She basically gets none. And that's kind of my own fault. I was a little distrustful awhile back and read their text messages and confronted him (read this as: started a massive 2week long fight) over her trying to convince him to leave me at some point in the future, and him going along with it.

I do not know to what extent E was part of decisions, but probably not much, if at all. However, she was made completely aware when they first started talking, before they ever got attached, that final decisions on partners would always be up to me, and that I would be put first always. I'm his wife (not legally, but we've always referred to each other that way, and that's how everyone knows us) and she is his secondary and if we dont get along she has to go, no discussion. She understood. She agreed.

I am also somewhat concerned for her, but she is not my problem. As far as your concerns of kink, dont be worried about that. Shes not totally inexperienced in sex, but shes only had vanilla sex, with guys her own age. They met on a DDlg dating website, so obviously she already identified as a little before he was in the picture. And the posting he made on their website was specifically looking for a third for us, and she messaged him first, at which point he reiterated that she would not only be dating him, but me as well. E knew what she was getting into. It was never a secret.

W still sees it, at this point, that my pain is due to jealousy and choosing to be angry about the situation. He doesnt want to make a decision and hurt her and lose her over me being pissed off. Admittedly, I do hold grudges and sometimes have a hard time seeing that a grudge is why I'm angry or dont like someone. His reasoning and reluctance make sense.

So that's why the time frame. Eventually enough time will pass that I'll be able to articulate if I legitimately am not ok with him being poly, or if I can come to accept it. I agreed to give him the time so I can work through things, and if I did, like you suggest, just do a trial separation to work on them, then I wouldnt be exposed to the situation and could put on my rose colored glasses and make myself believe that it will work out and get hurt again.

That's how I wound up here. I want to make a fully legitimate effort in trying to decide if I can ever accept him being poly. I'm a logical person. First steps for me has to be information, try to understand why he is the way he is, and why I am not enough, in ways that he has tried to explain but cant truly articulate to me.

And he is 100% aware that if i cant come to accept it in a year, and he chooses to stay with her, i walk. Immediately.

 

[Shadow715]

Mags -

Wow. Ok. Hmmm.. where do I start here?

The poly experiment wasnt Warren's dea originally, to be honest. I kind of stumbled into learning about DDlg through a friend who is a little, and when I told him about that, he explained it and helped me understand what it was, and told me that it's something hes always been into. I'm actually the first real relationship hes had where that dynamic was not in place. Being bi, but with no experience with women, I thought poly might be a good solution. So that was my idea at the beginning, not his. I will agree though after doing some research that triads dont work and the media is full of shit.

Yes, she is a teenager, but we arent far off. Eva is 19, I was 25 when we met her. Yes, older, but not by an exorbitant amount.

Yes, we should have made agreements from jump about how to nurture our own relationship, but that was my own naivete.

Actually, in our generation, that is a totally acceptable beginning to a relationship. It's actually how mine and Warren's relationship started, albeit we went through it faster. Ours was about 5 days of nonstop texting before we got together for about 24 hours and had loads of sex.

I cannot speak for Eva's behavior and participation in this.

I dont have a real answer as to why I let him make those rules and why he couldn't have made love to me too. He is my Dom, he makes most of my decisions and the relationship decisions, and generally that is how I prefer it.

He says that conversation happened when she was having a breakdown and he went along with it just to calm her down and was going to set her straight a few days later.

In his defense to friend zoning me, that's how we act in general. We have very similar personalities, and are legitimately best friends, outside of being romantically involved. I'm perfectly content to hang out and be one of the guys during the day, and have us come together and be loving and possibly sexual at night. That has always been our relationship dynamic. The biggest change here is that the romantic portion of our relationship has dropped off. Everything else is largely the same as it was.

As far as the emotional abuse thought, I'm not sure how to respond to that. I have been emotionally and mentally abused in a past relationship, and this doesnt feel the same as that.

 

[GalaGirl]

Since you sound like you jumped in blind, you might do some catch up reading. There's lots of resources but here's a few starting points.

http://practicalpolyamory.com/downloadabledocuments.html

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles

http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/

https://www.morethantwo.com/

I do not know to what extent E was part of decisions, but probably not much, if at all.

That is a pretty big turn off to me. It sounds weird for E not to have a voice. A dom exists only at the consent of the sub. And honestly some teens are naive. In order to gain access to explore something (like DD/lg kink) they will agree to whatever even if hinky or not so great for them just to get foot in the door. Esp if other adults are like "Um... call back when you are older."

I am with Mags that this teen is engaging in risky behavior. I would want NO part of that and it would be a deal breaker to me if it was my DH taking up with a teen like that. I would not want him in my poly network if he's off doing wonky kink with some teen if it was me.

However, she was made completely aware when they first started talking, before they ever got attached, that final decisions on partners would always be up to me, and that I would be put first always. I'm his wife (not legally, but we've always referred to each other that way, and that's how everyone knows us) and she is his secondary and if we dont get along she has to go, no discussion. She understood. She agreed.

So he's set you up as the "gatekeeper" to their relationship? That's not fun for you. Plus he's not been keeping his word lately so even if you say no, would he actually honor it? What work is he doing to rebuild trust with you?

Cuz if THIS is how he "puts you first" it's crap.

If he isn't keeping other agreements and you are phone peeking? Does not speak well of TRUST in this relationship.

I think you maintaining healthy skepticism is ok right now. His track record so far kinda sucks. So don't let him talk you into new stuff.

As far as deal breakers and hard limits, I dont so much have them, especially in the sense of expressing them to W. I've always been one of those people of "we'll cross that bridge when we get to it" instead of making decisions about anything before it happens.

I have anxiety. I do not "just take it as it comes" because that puts me in situations that aggravate me. I make firm decisions about what I will and will not put up with ahead of time.

I do have deal breakers.

1) Not taking personal responsibility Doing things like lying, not keeping your word, passing the buck, and so on.

2) Not working things out. Like same ol' problem over and over and over. Promise to work on it but then nothing. Same old song, different day. I have no patience for that. I work on 3 strikes and then I'm out. People do make mistakes and need time to get it together but if it's just dragging on and on... I don't need it.

Pick your number. You might have a different one -- 5, 10. But it sure isn't gonna be 100, 1000 second chances right? There's a point where you go "Look, you don't have it together, I'm tired of this crap. Bye." Figure out your number.

3) Taking up with my "messy people list." Everyone usually has one even if not spelled out. Those people that if your partner dated could make a big mess -- I do not want DH dating my mother, sister, boss, kid's teacher, best friend, roomie, teens, druggies, alcoholics, etc. There's enough people in the world without aiming right for the "messies." In return, I agree not to date anyone on his messy list of people.

Anxious has been baseline my entire life. Again, long mental health history. The anxiety disorder is just the only relevant part right now.

Then as a patient person, you may have to take better care of you by reducing stressors and being super picky about the company you keep.

W has structured it as 2 fully separated relationships. I only get pertinent information. She basically gets none. And that's kind of my own fault. I was a little distrustful awhile back and read their text messages and confronted him (read this as: started a massive 2week long fight) over her trying to convince him to leave me at some point in the future, and him going along with it.

From the outside looking in? Sounds like crap however this is playing out.

1) He makes unilateral decisions that affect all 3. He picks the structure? Everyone just does what he says? That's BS for you and her.

2) He tells her whatever to string her along and keep her around. Even saying he's gonna dump you. That's big BS for her and a ding for you because over time watching him behave like that toward her? You start to wonder when you will be the one he snows and you may lose respect for him and/or self for putting up with this.

3) He DOES plan to dump you eventually... but doesn't do it now in a clean, ethical way since he knows you aren't happy or into this. He strings you along into agreeing to another year so he can retain access to you and your services.
That's big BS for you and a ding for her. Over time watching him treat you crap she will wonder when he will snow her and she will lose respect for him and/or self for putting up with this.

Right now you seem mad at her/jealous of her. But the actual problem is HIM and how he treats you.

I am also somewhat concerned for her, but she is not my problem.

I cannot turn a blind eye to hinky going on in my poly network. But I will respect that you have no space to worry about her on top of all else. You don't have the bandwidth.

So every person for themselves then. Caveat emptor.

Makes me wonder what the other first potential saw that made her walk away .

(cont)

 

[GalaGirl]

W still sees it, at this point, that my pain is due to jealousy and choosing to be angry about the situation.

Does W take personal responsibility for his actions? Because this isn't stuff from the sky.

I believe that feelings ensue after behavior. Either thinking behavior that creates a stimulus or actions behavior that expose you to stimulus.

So you choose to Open the relationship with him.

If he is doing provoking behavior like making agreements with you and then not keeping his word later? Of course you would be angry. He's not holding up his end of the stick! He brings unpleasant stimulus into your area. Of course you aren't gonna love this behavior!

If he's saying you come first always and then he's neglecting you in favor of the new shiny? Of course you would be angry. The words and actions do not match.

Your feelings are not wrong. He sees you hurt. But then he views it as you choosing to be angry rather than him doing provoking behavior? If he's acting/saying it like you have a broken feelings or are "too sensitive"? Blowing it off? That's blame shifting rather than taking personal responsibility for how his behavior contributes to the situation making.

If he's not going to change his way of going, then YOU have to decide your staying-ness behavior and how close you want to be around him.

If you decide to stay... I would expect new shenanigans then since you remain in the ding-able zone.

Cuz if you make some noise and complain but still stick around even when he behaves poorly toward you? He has no real reason to change his behavior.

He has both of you there still. He gets his way.

He just has to say whatever to get you to shut up again --- make new promises he may not intend to actually keep. Lather rinse repeat.

He doesnt want to make a decision and hurt her and lose her over me being pissed off.

Then why piss you off with his neglectful and less than trustworthy behavior? See? Doesn't take personal responsibility for his own actions.

Admittedly, I do hold grudges and sometimes have a hard time seeing that a grudge is why I'm angry or dont like someone. His reasoning and reluctance make sense.

To me he sounds like he's doing head games on you. Making you think you are mad at her and have an unreasonable grudge against her but really? Your problems are with HIS behaviors.

What's she done other than be some naive lala head over heels teen? She's no threat to you.

So that's why the time frame. Eventually enough time will pass that I'll be able to articulate if I legitimately am not ok with him being poly, or if I can come to accept it.

To me that sounds like you ALREADY told him you are legitimately not ok with it like THIS and he's not slowing down or anything.

But he's convinced you it's not "legitimate enough" because he doesn't want you to veto (not that he'd honor it anyway).

I want to make a fully legitimate effort in trying to decide if I can ever accept him being poly.

You can be totally fine with poly people and doing poly AND AT THE SAME TIME not be ok with him and his way of doing poly because it steam rolls right over people.

What effort is he going to be making in this year to straighten up his behaviors so he's treating BOTH partners decently instead of crappy? Is all the work supposed to be on just you?

I'm a logical person. First steps for me has to be information, try to understand why he is the way he is, and why I am not enough, in ways that he has tried to explain but cant truly articulate to me.

I'll be frank. Some people are into harem building. Some people are into drama. Some people like being "fought over" like when 2 dogs fight over a bone. It makes them feel important.

But NONE of those types of people is gonna come right out and tell you "Hey! I'm a drama person of X type! Come be in my network and let me play games with your head!" Their M.O. is to obfuscate and slippery fish around.

So if your quest is to get clear information and you are working with a person who does NOT give clear information? It's going to be a drag.

And he is 100% aware that if i cant come to accept it in a year, and he chooses to stay with her, i walk. Immediately.

More reason to obfuscate then. Cuz if honest? He could just choose to be honest NOW.

And if looking to keep you on the string in order to retain access to you and your services? Obfuscating would be better being honest and having you walk away immediately.

Since you have decided to be here for a while? Tread with caution and with BS radar turned on.

Don't get married any time soon. There's enough on the pile without adding the expense and complications of a wedding and then divorce.

Remember if you decide sooner than a year that you are just not ok with participating in a poly V like THIS? You can choose to bow out earlier. Whether he thinks it is legit or not. You aren't trapped there. And you are not obligated to go a full year.

I hope things sort out for you one way or another so you can be relieved of all these burdens. It doesn't sound fun right now.

Galagirl

 

[Shadow715]

Galagirl -

I dont really have the energy right now to unpack all the answers to those questions and comments, so I'll just tell you that I'm really considering what you've said, and I'll jump to the end.

For my peace of mind, and for my sense of closure should this come to end, I want to give it the full year and try everything I can. I need to know that I didnt give up until I exhausted every possibility. Otherwise there will always be what ifs after the break up and i will never get over it. However, we still have not set a date or started planning the wedding. We already discussed not getting legally married until we let this play out. There is time, there is no ticking clock, no biologicals in play about having kids and settling down before X age. I am fully prepared to walk away at the end. I just really have to know, for my sake, that I didnt give up without trying.

 

[Magdlyn]

I don't really have the energy right now to unpack all the answers to those questions and comments, so I'll just tell you that I'm really considering what you've said, and I'll jump to the end.

There is no need to ever respond to every question or point from every member here. All our suggestions are completely for you. If it helps you to write out answers, go ahead. If you're busy, take a break here and just think over what we said.

For my peace of mind, and for my sense of closure should this come to end, I want to give it the full year, and try everything I can. I need to know that I didn't give up until I exhausted every possibility. Otherwise there will always be what ifs after the break up and i will never get over it.

You will get over it! Never say never. Hopefully every relationship is a learning experience. Not every relationship we have will be forever. There is initial attraction which does not guarantee long term compatibility.

However, we still have not set a date or started planning the wedding. We already discussed not getting legally married until we let this play out. There is time, there is no ticking clock, no biologicals in play about having kids and settling down before X age. I am fully prepared to walk away at the end. I just really have to know, for my sake, that I didn't give up without trying.

You're trying. He isn't. He's bullshitting you and gaslighting you. End of story.

It's so telling how, he gave you an engagement ring (I assume) and then teenybopper comes along, and she's all, but you're engaged! And he's all, that's all right honey, I will give you a "promise" (gag) ring too, behind my fiancee's back!

Wow, what a grand gesture. And both rings are equally meaningless. His promises are shit.

 

[GalaGirl]

You do not have to reply to everything. Nor do you have to listen to internet strangers on anything. YMMV. You take what is useful and leave behind what is not.

That said? I'm glad to hear you will not rush to marriage while this is all up in the air. That really would be piling on too much.

Otherwise there will always be what ifs after the break up and i will never get over it.

IME? There have been what ifs after break ups. But over time? I DID get over it and no longer even care about the break ups like when fresh.

So I wouldn't say "never get over it."

But you are you. So you do what you think is best and what you think you need to do.

GL!
Galagirl

 

[Shadow715]

Mags and Gala -

I do appreciate the advice, and the outside perspective on the situation. All I can say for sure is that I need to make an effort. I need to know that no stone was left unturned, in a sense.

What I'm looking for more than anything is advice on what I can do to ease the transition and try to come to terms with the change. If anyone has anything that could help, I'm all ears.

I have read Poly Hell and More than Two, and I've been trying to go through some old threads of a similar type in the forums. Any other articles or blogs would be great.

 

[Magdlyn]

I understand when people say, they want to make sure they have done "everything they could." But there's always one thing more you "could" do.

Sometimes it's just fear of change holding you back from breaking up with someone who has not turned out to be the person you thought they were.

I don't recommend "trying everything" for years on end, hoping for him to treat you better. When people show you who they are, you could believe them.

 

[Shadow715]

Mags -

It isnt years on end. There is a time limit. But I appreciate the reasoning. Thank you.