How do you decide if someone is toxic?

[AlwaysGrowing]

This isn't about a poly relationships, really, but a personal relationship affected by my polyamory.

I've shared before that my parents were not happy but not too rude about my "coming out" as poly and have met Boy a few times here and there. We live thousands of miles from my parents so it rarely affects them and we usually just don't talk about it. They did become MORE religious in the last few years, leading them to make it clear that they don't approve but then would usually add an "it's your life though so we hope you repent someday" kind of thing.

Lately, however, they have taken turns sending me messages every couple of months (not sure if it's deliberate or if they both just think it and feel the need to tell me on occasion) that they find it disgusting, embarrassing, depressing, disappointing, or some other type of upsetting that I make the choices I do and have the beliefs I do. This is about my relationships and my political beliefs - based off of posts on social media. In all other aspects of my life, they are loving and supportive.

I have kept some of my extended family on social media as a courtesy, really. We don't really interact much, but they enjoy seeing photos of little girl and generally being nosy sooo... Whatever. Now that people are making a habit of talking shit, though, and are apparently pointing out "controversial" posts to my parents... I'm tempted to cut them all off there and force them to actually call/text if they want to be a part of my life.

Hubby's family members were basically insinuating that he's a cuckold or that I'm rubbing my affair in his face a while back so we have already gotten rid of most of them already. I have a few guesses about who the shit stirrers are in my family but am kind of torn on my parents themselves.

On one hand - I find their messages to me completely inappropriate. It is MY life, MY relationships, and MY choice to believe and support what I deem worthy. Repeatedly telling me that they feel they've failed as parents and raised a questionable human is hurtful.

On the other - little girl ADORES them. They are careful not to cross lines with her, too, and I have no qualms letting that relationship continue, although I would not want her to spend any extended amount of time with them alone in case they try to push their beliefs. I'm not sure how my cutting them from social media and sending a "these kinds of messages need to stop because they are disrespectful. If you don't approve of my life, then don't pay attention to it" kind of message would affect that.

They are also my parents and I love them. They've always seemed like decent people. I've noticed them getting more extreme in the Trump years, though, which grosses me out and has very much affected my respect for them.

We are already fairly low contact. We do follow each other on social media, but we only actually interact a few times a month and usually just quick check ins before little girl decides it is her turn. I'm a conflict avoider typically and just don't know how to appropriately handle this situation when I don't even know what the ideal outcome is.

Very long and rambling, but does anyone have any insight or advice to share?

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

Maybe to reduce the number of posts that they see as a reason to share these views with you, you could make use of the privacy settings sites like Facebook offer by not letting them see those posts.

That might be enough to avoid the situation.

If it does come to a point where you need to cut off your social relationship with them, you could start the conversation by saying "we need to come to an arrangement about how you'll continue to have contact with Little Girl because I can't do this any more". That way, you've gone in saying "I'm not ripping your grandchild away even though I probably should".

 

[Dagferi]

Easy only let them see your posts about Little girl.

Just change your privacy settings.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle.

FWIW?

I'm tempted to cut them all off there and force them to actually call/text if they want to be a part of my life.

So go ahead. See if you feel better that way. They were your parents before y'all started using social media. So let that go. Use the phone. That's what long distance relatives used to do before social media or email -- phone and letters.

We are already fairly low contact. We do follow each other on social media, but we only actually interact a few times a month and usually just quick check ins before little girl decides it is her turn. I'm a conflict avoider typically and just don't know how to appropriately handle this situation when I don't even know what the ideal outcome is.

So then the main problem is never having learned to do conflict resolution. Could learn to do conflict resolution now.

I could be wrong, but the ideal outcome is them keeping their annoying thoughts to themselves and they stop bugging you on social media (or anywhere else) about it.

They don't have to love it, but they don't have to keep pestering you about something you aren't changing. If they live far away, how's it affect them REALLY?

On one hand - I find their messages to me completely inappropriate. It is MY life, MY relationships, and MY choice to believe and support what I deem worthy. Repeatedly telling me that they feel they've failed as parents and raised a questionable human is hurtful.

"I'm sorry you feel that way. You haven't failed as parents. You raised someone to make their own choices and think for themselves. You could be proud of that part even if you don't agree with the choices I make.

That said, you have told me all this before. I'm not changing. So these messages to me about how disappointed you are that I'm poly have to stop. I dropped you from my social media. You are welcome to call or text.

I don't know how to help you, so you have to find someone else to help you with those feelings. The topic is not up for discussion with me any more. Please respect my limit."

Then hold the line. They bring it up? You say "This topic is not up for discussion. Please respect my limit. I'm hanging up now. Bye."

Then hang up the phone. Keep it super simple on you. They want to have a longer phone conversation? It's all up to them. Respect your limit and stop harping on it. They want to harp on it? Expect you to play the broken record. You say "This topic is not up for discussion. You are not respecting my limit. I'm hanging up now. Bye." Super short phone call.

On the other - little girl ADORES them. They are careful not to cross lines with her, too, and I have no qualms letting that relationship continue, although I would not want her to spend any extended amount of time with them alone in case they try to push their beliefs. I'm not sure how my cutting them from social media and sending a "these kinds of messages need to stop because they are disrespectful. If you don't approve of my life, then don't pay attention to it" kind of message would affect that.

If you parents are so petty as to take it out on Little Girl because they are grumpy they can't tell you how to live your life? And because you are holding them accountable when they behave poorly toward you and don't respect your limits?

You do the next natural consequence and not let them interact with Little Girl.

Depending on how little? Little Girl won't care if these grandparents fade out of her life. Little children usually don't. Esp when it is low contact long distance relatives. They forget.

And not all people get to know their grandparents or great-grandparents.

They are also my parents and I love them. They've always seemed like decent people. I've noticed them getting more extreme in the Trump years, though, which grosses me out and has very much affected my respect for them.

People being your parents doesn't give them a free pass to be rude to you.

You respecting them or not? Doesn't give them a free pass to be rude to you.

If they do behavior you find objectionable? You ask them to stop. If they don't stop? You move yourself out of the line of fire.

Not poly, but I am a chronic patient. Years ago I got super tired of my parents "playing doctor" and telling me how to live my chronic patient life. From suggesting whatever wacky "tea" to telling me I take too many medicines etc. I finally told them I don't discuss my health care with them. I talk about it with my doctors. The next time it was brought up I was going home. I wasn't at their house but a few moments and my Dad started in on it. I said nothing, turned around, and went home. Simple boundary. We do not talk about this. Not my doctor. If they want me to stay to visit? Respect my limit. Otherwise I go home.

I'm sure watching their daughter struggle with chronic patient issues brings up a lot of feelings and things for them. But that's not MY baggage. And I already deal with MY baggage -- the whole chronic patient thing. Why do I have to deal with THEIR extra baggage with how they feel about my patient thing on top of my own feeling about my patient stuff and having to deal with my health management plan? They could go see a therapist to help them sort THEIR baggage. I have plenty, thanks.

Your poly is YOURS. It's not their thing. If you doing poly brings up a lot of feelings for them? They could go see a therapist to help them process. They don't have to dump it on you. Even if they try?

It's not your baggage to carry. You could leave it on the floor and just not carry it around for them. Exercise personal boundaries and enforce your limits.

My 2 cents,
Galagirl

 

[Inaniel]

My parents are also conservative Christian, Big Trump fans and all that. Not that it matters regarding my response. I am only saying I sympathize.

I had a similar issue with my mother specifically, not about poly because we were not out of the closet at the time... But verbal attacks, emotional abuses and the like... I was almost 30yrs old before I created a boundary with her. It is partly my fault for tolerating it for so long.

My wife and I were on a road trip and my parents wanted to meet up with us to visit the grandkid, I think they drove about six hours to intersect our rout and we met in a small town. I had just completed grad school, so we were in a celebratory mood. As we pulled up to the hotel, I received an email from my future employer, so I immediately started taking care of that while my wife Bird started unloading luggage.

When my mother witnessed this, she saw it as a gender role abomination... She announced in front of my daughter that I “was the laziest man she has ever seen”. As a new father, I think I had a moment of clarity. I realized I could do better than this for my daughter, in that moment she was my inspiration to do better… I was also really pissed-off that my mother called me lazy when I was working so hard to provide for my family…

I asked Bird to stop unloading the car and announced that we were leaving. I stood in front of my mother and told her that she is going to learn how to speak to me respectfully if she ever wants to see her grandchild again. We put our taillights to them.

What I did was condescending and rude. I do not feel good about that. I think its best to create boundaries before anger. With that said, it was exactly what our relationship needed. It has been about five years since that trip. We are now out to my parents and we visit them often, gf Daisy included. Mother now keeps harsh criticisms to herself. As for Poly; Daisy has been welcomed into the family and my parents are very kind to her, despite not agreeing with the lifestyle. In 2017 we all went on a trip and stayed in a cabin together with my parents. My mother had a few glasses of wine and let slip that at one point she made a conscious decision to love anyone whom I decided to love, because being part of our life was so important to her.

I wonder what inspired that decision…

 

[Marcus]

They are also my parents and I love them.

That familial obligation is a killer. It takes what are otherwise normal people with healthy boundaries, and turns them into punching bags for their dangerously insecure family members. That guilt fueled obligation keeps us from treating them like we would any other person who intentionally treated us poorly, and instead just excuse their every desperately hateful action into "oh well, but it's my [enter title here], so I can't just tell them I'm not going to take their abuse, and mean it"

This is a struggle I had for years, right up until I cut off all ties to my family. They are just simple hillbillies who insist on hoarking their failed ideologies onto me. They were incapable of keeping their "I'll pray for you" idiocy to themselves, so they had to go.

It wasn't an easy decision, and there was a time of recovery for me because that manufactured guilt is some powerful shit. Now that I am away from them for a while (it's been about a year since I cut the ties from the last of them), I don't feel shame about not having them in my life any more. I'm not suggesting that you scrub them from your life, just offering my personal decision as a counterpoint.

I hope that you decide to be a person of integrity, and stand up for your own boundaries. These hateful and simple people don't actually add anything to our lives, they are simply a drain. Take care of yourself.

 

[AlwaysGrowing]

I did delete a few people off social media yesterday. My dad has it (and chooses to follow me), my mom does not. She is the one who reached out most recently saying that someone showed her my posts and that it "embarrassed" her to have others point them out.

They NEVER say it out loud. It is only text/social media private message. They have never been inappropriate in a way that my child could see it.

I have been thinking of sending something like:

"I'm sorry you don't feel like I am a person to be proud of, but that is not my problem. I am happy with my life and my decisions. If you would prefer not to see them, then feel free to let me know who disapproves so much that they feel the need to point out my "embarrassing" posts to you so I can delete them. Dad can also unfollow me so he doesn't have to see it. I don't appreciate the negative messages, so in the future let's follow the "if you don't have anything nice to say" rule with one another."

I really hate drama and in my friendships/relationships rarely find it worth dealing with. I'd rather cut off the dramatic individual than deal with the conflict. I have and do deal with conflict with my partners, coworkers, etc when necessary and fixable. It's just not often that it's someone I would honestly not have a relationship with if not for familial ties/a feeling of obligation AND an essential incompatibility - our ideologies are completely different and that isn't going to change.

 

[Marcus]

"I'm sorry you don't feel like I am a person to be proud of, but that is not my problem. I am happy with my life and my decisions. If you would prefer not to see them, then feel free to let me know who disapproves so much that they feel the need to point out my "embarrassing" posts to you so I can delete them. Dad can also unfollow me so he doesn't have to see it. I don't appreciate the negative messages, so in the future let's follow the "if you don't have anything nice to say" rule with one another."

In the interest of giving people a chance to demonstrate that they can be adults, I'm in favor of something like what you've put together there.

It might be more helpful if you address the behavior directly, meaning you correct them when they actually do it, and let them know that "this specific behavior you just did, is not welcome". If you do a general statement like the one you put together you run the risk of them "why I never, I do declare how cruel thou art" (no one can play the victim card quite like family).

But overall what is important is that we learn to express our boundaries constructively, and that we treat them as though they are critical. It's tough to do, and I've had mixed results over my lifetime, but having this as a goal has been helpful to me.

 

[GalaGirl]

I did delete a few people off social media yesterday. My dad has it (and chooses to follow me), my mom does not. She is the one who reached out most recently saying that someone showed her my posts and that it "embarrassed" her to have others point them out.

So her way to solve her problem with the person pointing things out to her is to get YOU to stop posting things or stop living your life so there's nothing to point out?

Seems faster to exercise her personal boundaries with the person directly and say "Thanks, but my kid is an adult. You can talk to my kid directly if you have questions or issues with her social media posts."

"I'm sorry you don't feel like I am a person to be proud of, but that is not my problem. I am happy with my life and my decisions. If you would prefer not to see them, then feel free to let me know who disapproves so much that they feel the need to point out my "embarrassing" posts to you so I can delete them. Dad can also unfollow me so he doesn't have to see it. I don't appreciate the negative messages, so in the future let's follow the "if you don't have anything nice to say" rule with one another."

I think that's fine. Tell her that. Though I would have added her dealing with it herself.

"I'm sorry you don't feel like I am a person to be proud of, but that is not my problem. I am happy with my life and my decisions.

If someone shows you my social media posts and you don't like them doing that? You can tell them to talk to me directly if they have a problem with my posts and that you don't do social media so quit showing you stuff.

You can also let me know who disapproves so much that they feel the need to point out my "embarrassing" posts to you so I can delete them from my social media. Dad can also unfollow me so he doesn't have to see my posts.

I don't appreciate the negative messages, so in the future let's follow the "if you don't have anything nice to say" rule with one another."

But that's me. I don't like "pass the buck" problems. It happens in my family sometimes -- like trying to solve things indirectly rather than directly because the people involved are conflict avoidant and "don't want to make a scene" or something. It's weird.

Galagirl

 

[AlwaysGrowing]

Well, the reason I want to delete the showers is because I have no interest in having those sorts in my life.

I did send the message, with an addition that any negative comment about my relationship and political choices are not welcome. A question/conversation starter is fine, but blatant insults are not. We have ALWAYS been able to agree to disagree, which I am comfortable with. If they aren't anymore, then we just shouldn't talk.

So far I have gotten a general "how ya doing" from my dad who may or may not have seen the message yet since I sent it via text and he is actually more likely to see emails/private messages on a computer. Nothing from my mom. I'm going to tell dad to check his texts with my response.

Mostly I was worried I was over reacting by even considering this behavior toxic. Rude, for sure, but officially going low or no contact seems so drastic. I hope they are able to return to respectful enough behavior that I don't have to do any more distancing. Hubby and I have already agreed we don't plan on going to hometown ever again, outside of parental funerals eventually and maybe a visit to a family member we have never had issues with that has a terminal illness. That will only happen if they are still around when travel feels safe enough. So distancing from extended family is not a huge thing for me. Uncomfortable for future me who may need to be around them for mourning, but not a huge thing since I will be able to leave the drama behind.

 

[tallbosguy]

I did send the message, with an addition that any negative comment about my relationship and political choices are not welcome.

So I work in a non-political field that became politicized - public health.

I can't comment on the showers, but the national psyche has been more fractured with this (regardless of what your nationality is, we have seen it everywhere to some degrees). The norms are quite gone, and it is something we are observing and discussing, and it has been super political.

Unfortunately the bleed through is quite real.

I don't really have much to say about your position that others here haven't covered even better or with greater experience, but I just wanted to say that I am sorry this national tension has impacted your lifestyle. We are seeing returns to before however, so I hope this peace comes your way.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi AG,

I have very little patience or sympathy for shitty/toxic blood relatives and in-laws. My interactions with them are gifts, freely given, not entitlements. Some parents think they can get away with anything, because, "Well, we're the parents." If my parents treated me the way yours have been treating you, I would instantly cut contact with them, and sleep like a baby. And I'm pretty sure my parents know this. I already have very limited contact with my father (and his wife). I believe I should choose my own friends and family. I will hang out with the blood relatives and in-laws I have as long as everyone behaves.

You might want to cut things off with your parents temporarily. Like give them a three-month time-out. If they still act bad after that, give them a six-month time-out. And so on. Let them discover that you *can* do it. That you're not just bluffing.

That is my general perspective on the subject.
Regards,
Kevin T.