Looking for perspective in transitioning to a non-heirarchal relationship

[much_economics_9470]

My partner (primary and nesting partner) and I have been together for almost 8 years. We had always spoken about a future lifetime together, bought a house together, and spoke seriously about getting married last fall.

I knew for a while I had wanted to marry my partner, but wanted to earn enough money to buy a nice ring to propose. I had been in debt, and felt ashamed so I wanted to clear that out first. To be honest, I feel like if I had asked her to marry sooner the situation I am in would not have happened.
For the past 3 years we had been theoretically poly. We had discussed opening our relationship to other people if the opportunity presented itself. Initially, we did not go out of our way on dating apps or go out of our way to meet people IRL.
Last September I met someone organically I was interested in (we'll call her Jane). I spoke with my partner about our relationship and how she felt about practicing poly IRL instead of theoretically. My partner and I both agreed to a hierarchal model of ENM, and I began seeing Jane. Jane was aware of my hierarchal relationship and was okay with it.
At the end of January my partner wanted to start looking around on apps to meet someone. I believe my partner said she was a little lonely and wanted to experience some of the NRE she saw I was experiencing. My partner met someone on an app, and they began seeing each other in early Feb (we'll call them Luke). My partner's intention was to keep this relationship casual.

This week my partner asked to change our relationship to a non-heirarchal one. Her reasoning was because seeing us as the primary relationship was dishonest to her and Luke's relationship. This discussion spiraled into me finding out that about 3 weeks ago Luke commented to my partner that her and I just seemed like good friends. This led my partner to reflect on our relationship, culminating in her stating that she has never felt for anyone the way she feels about Luke and that she was not in love with me anymore. She said she did not want to marry me anymore, and her ideal relationship would be with me, her, and Luke in a non-heirarchal relationship, where she would be the hinge. She also stated she would like to live with Luke at some point, and had also told Luke how she felt.

My partner said she is very happy in our relationship, she said she never felt that something was off or that she was settling, and that she was in love and over the moon with me about 1 year ago. I know I could have been more forthcoming in my expression of my love for her, but I had no idea things were this dire.
I am mostly just in shock right now. I definitely wished she had spoken to me about not being in love with me sooner. I do think that part is fixable and there is an ebb and flow to feelings in relationships
She said she was scared to bring this up because I suffer from an anxiety disorder and she thought I would not take the news well and spiral. Admittedly I am not always the best communicator either, so I know I share part of the blame for not speaking up when noticing something was a bit off in my partner's and I relationship.
I love her and would love to put in the work in our relationship, but I am not sure if it is salvageable as a hierarchal poly relationship. If I agree to a non-heirarchal model, I know there is of course a strong possibility that she will want to change the relationship again to a hierarchal poly relationship with her and Luke being the primary.

I'm also aware that this sort of change in a poly relationship can also be seen as a slow breakup. My partner did say she wanted to put in the work to fix our relationship (counseling, books, worksheets etc). But I worry about our different intentions I'm attempting to fix the relationship, as well as if it's even possible while she is seeing Luke.
Mentally I was prepared for a hierarchical poly relationship, and I thought I was handling it well. But I know if I continue in a non-hierarchical poly relationship I will have a very hard time not comparing myself to Luke. It is the "demotion" from "a future with us married" that truly hurts deep down.
If you've made it this far, I thank you and would love your perspective.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello much_economics_9470,

When working to fix your primary relationship, don't forget to schedule regular date nights with your nesting partner. Arrange the schedule so that both of you can be free of distraction and anxiety during these dates. Put the minutia on hold, and just be there (100% present) for each other.

Are You in Poly Hell?

It seems to me that a big part of the problem here, is that you are in danger of being demoted down to below Luke's level. Your partner has said that she is no longer in love with you, and she never felt for anyone the way she feels for Luke. I kind of suspect you've already been demoted to secondary, she just hasn't admitted it yet.

Much of this is possibly NRE talking in your partner, she feels NRE for Luke but not for you, hence she wants Luke to be your equal/superior. If you insist that you continue to be her primary, she is likely to resent you, and things are likely to get worse.

I don't think this situation has arisen because you took "too long" to ask for her hand in marriage. I think this situation has arisen because she is experiencing NRE (with Luke). NRE can last a few months or a few years; who knows what might transpire before this NRE wears off.

If you are going to stay with her, you'll probably have to accept the non-hierarchical arrangement. Then see what you can do about fixing the relationship -- and it may prove to be unfixable.

I'm sorry this is happening to you.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[much_economics_9470]

Hello much_economics_9470,

When working to fix your primary relationship, don't forget to schedule regular date nights with your nesting partner. Arrange the schedule so that both of you can be free of distraction and anxiety during these dates. Put the minutia on hold, and just be there (100% present) for each other.

Are You in Poly Hell?

It seems to me that a big part of the problem here, is that you are in danger of being demoted down to below Luke's level. Your partner has said that she is no longer in love with you, and she never felt for anyone the way she feels for Luke. I kind of suspect you've already been demoted to secondary, she just hasn't admitted it yet.

Much of this is possibly NRE talking in your partner, she feels NRE for Luke but not for you, hence she wants Luke to be your equal/superior. If you insist that you continue to be her primary, she is likely to resent you, and things are likely to get worse.

I don't think this situation has arisen because you took "too long" to ask for her hand in marriage. I think this situation has arisen because she is experiencing NRE (with Luke). NRE can last a few months or a few years; who knows what might transpire before this NRE wears off.

If you are going to stay with her, you'll probably have to accept the non-hierarchical arrangement. Then see what you can do about fixing the relationship -- and it may prove to be unfixable.

I'm sorry this is happening to you.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

Thanks for your thorough and well thought out input! It is much appreciated!

I may have been unclear in my post, my primary partner is my nesting partner. I suspect everything you say is true. I know if I stay in a non-hierarchical relationship with my partner, it can't be with the expectation that I will become her primary. And even if I were to become her primary, I know she could very well change her mind again.

 

[Magdlyn]

My partner (primary and nesting partner) and I have been together for almost 8 years. We had always spoken about a future lifetime together, bought a house together, and spoke seriously about getting married last fall.

Since you picked a nickname for your newer person (Jane), let's also give a name to your nesting partner. How about Liz? It also has the benefit of giving her a persona that is not just "MY partner," (belonging to you).

I knew for a while I had wanted to marry Liz, but wanted to earn enough money to buy a nice ring to propose. I had been in debt, and felt ashamed. I wanted to clear that out first. To be honest, I feel like if I had asked Liz to marry me sooner, the situation I am in would not have happened.

You think she only agreed to poly as a consolation prize, and what she really wanted was to be mono and married, like most people in our culture? Good for you for paying off your debts, by the way. That's important even if you don't want to save up for an expensive ring. And a marriage is much more than a diamond ring anyway.

For the past 3 years we had been theoretically poly. We had discussed opening our relationship to other people, if the opportunity presented itself. Initially, we did not go out of our way on dating apps or go out of our way to meet people IRL. Last September, I met someone organically I was interested in (we'll call her Jane).

So, about 6 months ago, you met Jane. At that point you'd been with Liz for 6.5 years. Your (and Liz's) initial NRE had faded long ago.

I spoke with Liz about our relationship and how she felt about practicing poly IRL instead of theoretically. Liz and I agreed to a hierarchal model of ENM, and I began seeing Jane. Jane was aware of my hierarchal relationship and was okay with it.

Well, she didn't expect to be your co-primary right away. She barely knew you, so that's a smart way to go. Becoming a co-primary needs to be earned. But Liz, on the other hand...

At the end of January, Liz wanted to start looking around on apps to meet someone. I believe she said she was a little lonely and wanted to experience some of the NRE she saw I was experiencing.

You "believe" she said she was lonely? You aren't sure? Weren't you listening?

Liz met someone on an app, and they began seeing each other in early Feb (we'll call them Luke). Liz's intention was to keep this relationship casual.

Liz met someone after only being on a dating app for a week or two. This is typical. Women get flooded with messages. First she thought she just wanted sex only...

This week, Liz asked to change our relationship to a non-hierarchical one. Her reasoning was because seeing us as the primary relationship was dishonest to her and Luke's relationship. This discussion spiraled into me finding out that about 3 weeks ago Luke commented to Liz that she and I just seemed like good friends. This led Liz to reflect on our relationship, culminating in her stating that she has never felt for anyone the way she feels about Luke and that she was not in love with me anymore.

Liz is in NRE. Infatuation stage. It is very overwhelming, sexy, exciting, flattering, all-consuming. Maybe she never felt that way about you, or maybe she has just forgotten that time. It sounds like she just forgot!

She said she did not want to marry me anymore, and her ideal relationship would be with me, her and Luke in a non-hierarchical relationship, where she would be the hinge. She also stated she would like to live with Luke at some point, and had also told Luke how she felt.

Living together should wait at least a year. It's way too soon to start talking about that. And you don't have to live with her and Luke. She could live part time with each of you (if she's even still interested in you).

Liz said she is very happy in our relationship. She said she never felt that something was off or that she was settling, and that she was in love and over the moon with me about 1 year ago. I know I could have been more forthcoming in my expression of my love for her, but I had no idea things were this dire.

So she did feel strong emotions for you fairly recently. But now you're wondering if you took her for granted and didn't treat her well, take her on romantic dates enough, etc. This can and does happen in mono relationships. Now that you've both met someone new, and are feeling NRE for them, a spotlight is being shone on the cracks in your primary relationship.

I am mostly just in shock right now. I definitely wished she had spoken to me about not being in love with me sooner. I do think that part is fixable and there is an ebb and flow to feelings in relationships.

But not if you're both pouring all of your romantic energy into your new and shiny partners.

She said she was scared to bring this up because I suffer from an anxiety disorder and she thought I would not take the news well and spiral. Admittedly, I am not always the best communicator either, so I know I share part of the blame for not speaking up when noticing something was a bit off in our relationship.

So you ignored the distance that began to develop somehow between you and Liz, and to top that off, you met a new exciting person, Jane, and voila! It sounds like you both need to brush up on your communication skills. She is used to not being honest with you because you "spiral" when you have to talk about something hard. Running away from the hard talks does not sustain a relationship. Are you being treated for your anxiety?

I love Liz and would love to put in the work in our relationship, but I am not sure if it is salvageable as a hierarchical poly relationship. If I agree to a non-hierarchical model, I know there is a strong possibility that she will want to change the relationship again to a hierarchical poly relationship, with her and Luke being primaries.

There is no reason you and Luke couldn't be her co-primaries. This isn't a competition. And Jane could also end up as your co-primary. We all get to design the relationship structure that works best for our personalities and situations. You could end up with 2 V-shaped relationships, where both you and Liz are hinges with two sweeties.

I'm also aware that this sort of change in a poly relationship can also be seen as a slow breakup. Liz did say she wanted to put in the work to fix our relationship (counseling, books, worksheets, etc.). But I worry about our different intentions. I'm attempting to fix the relationship, as well, if it's even possible while she is seeing Luke.

Sure, it is possible. Although sometimes newer partners get turned off when their poly partner is struggling with their primary. This is, after all, an experiment. You've been poly in theory only until very recently. It sounds like you suggested workbooks. Maybe if you have anxiety disorder, you need counseling and meds to navigate this more challenging type of relationship structure.

Mentally I was prepared for a hierarchical poly relationship, and I thought I was handling it well. But I know if I continue in a non-hierarchical poly relationship I will have a very hard time not comparing myself to Luke. It is the "demotion" from "a future with us married" that truly hurts deep down.
If you've made it this far, I thank you and would love your perspective.

Polyamory doesn't need to cause demotion, if we do it right. The "poly hell" article should help a lot.

 

[Tinwen]

Hi,
that's a tough spot to be in!

My main impression is, DON'T RUSH - both of you.
She met someone end of January, it's the end of April... that's before NRE weakens. People begin to see their new partners more realistically in six months, a year...

You don't marry someone after 3 months in love. You don't call them "primary" either. It's just a great new relationship with the potential to become a relationship for life.
Even if you open the option for non-hierarchical (which you may have to do, given that hierarchy often fails for exactly the reasons you are experiencing), it is not a done deal. Neither is it certain that this becomes a slow breakup.
As I see it, If she's remaining open to "fixing" your relationship, all possibilities are open as the second relationship progresses - return to monogamy, a non-hierarchical V, breakup.
Tell her that you hear her, but you don't think a decision should be rushed. Try not to escalate anxiety.

In reading your post, somehow this strikes me as a strong resource belief:
"I definitely wished she had spoken to me about not being in love with me sooner. I do think that part is fixable and there is an ebb and flow to feelings in relationships".
The tide is in his favor now, because he's new. You two have a steady thing going for years. Trust it's still there. It's been just covered up by a wave - a wave that may go away, or eventually stabilize in a quiet steady thing as well.

I'm wishing you best of luck

 

[much_economics_9470]

Since you picked a nickname for your newer person (Jane), let's also give a name to your nesting partner. How about Liz? It also has the benefit of giving her a persona that is not just "MY partner," (belonging to you).

You are completely right about the way I worded that, thank you for calling me out on that.

You think she only agreed to poly as a consolation prize, and what she really wanted was to be mono and married, like most people in our culture? Good for you for paying off your debts, by the way. That's important even if you don't want to save up for an expensive ring. And a marriage is much more than a diamond ring anyway.

So, about 6 months ago, you met Jane. At that point you'd been with Liz for 6.5 years. Your (and Liz's) initial NRE had faded long ago.

Well, she didn't expect to be your co-primary right away. She barely knew you, so that's a smart way to go. Becoming a co-primary needs to be earned. But Liz, on the other hand...

You "believe" she said she was lonely? You aren't sure? Weren't you listening?

You are right. I was listening and I distinctly remember her saying she felt lonely at night because I was spending a lot of time out of the house at night these past 10 months working on a hobby I am passionate about.

Liz met someone after only being on a dating app for a week or two. This is typical. Women get flooded with messages. First she thought she just wanted sex only...

Liz is in NRE. Infatuation stage. It is very overwhelming, sexy, exciting, flattering, all-consuming. Maybe she never felt that way about you, or maybe she has just forgotten that time. It sounds like she just forgot!

Living together should wait at least a year. It's way too soon to start talking about that. And you don't have to live with her and Luke. She could live part time with each of you (if she's even still interested in you).

So she did feel strong emotions for you fairly recently. But now you're wondering if you took her for granted and didn't treat her well, take her on romantic dates enough, etc. This can and does happen in mono relationships. Now that you've both met someone new, and are feeling NRE for them, a spotlight is being shone on the cracks in your primary relationship.

But not if you're both pouring all of your romantic energy into your new and shiny partners.

So you ignored the distance that began to develop somehow between you and Liz, and to top that off, you met a new exciting person, Jane, and voila! It sounds like you both need to brush up on your communication skills. She is used to not being honest with you because you "spiral" when you have to talk about something hard. Running away from the hard talks does not sustain a relationship. Are you being treated for your anxiety?

I did fall into a depression last March after quitting a job that was causing me to become also depressed. And it wasn't until this past October that I finally decided to see a psychiatrist to change my medications. Currently that has been going well and I am happy to say that things have been progressing nicely on that front.
But you are correct about the communication skills. I know since the beginning of our relationship we have both gotten better, but obviously there is work to be done.

There is no reason you and Luke couldn't be her co-primaries. This isn't a competition. And Jane could also end up as your co-primary. We all get to design the relationship structure that works best for our personalities and situations. You could end up with 2 V-shaped relationships, where both you and Liz are hinges with two sweeties.

I had starting looking into this as an option the past 2 days. I had never considered this before so this is definitely some good and interesting poly structure for thought.

Sure, it is possible. Although sometimes newer partners get turned off when their poly partner is struggling with their primary. This is, after all, an experiment. You've been poly in theory only until very recently. It sounds like you suggested workbooks. Maybe if you have anxiety disorder, you need counseling and meds to navigate this more challenging type of relationship structure.

Jane and I are both open to talking to a counselor as well as participating actively in relationship books and workbooks. We are going to look for a poly friendly couples counselor this week. I know she is not currently seen a therapist on her own.

Polyamory doesn't need to cause demotion, if we do it right. The "poly hell" article should help a lot.

Thank you so much for taking the time to address my post point by point. I really appreciate the effort and thoughtfulness!

 

[Magdlyn]

You are completely right about the way I worded that, thank you for calling me out on that.

You are right. I was listening and I distinctly remember her saying she felt lonely at night because I was spending a lot of time out of the house at night these past 10 months working on a hobby I am passionate about.

Oh! I assumed Liz was lonely when you were out with Jane. So not only were you dating a new person, you were also overly involved in your hobby and neglecting Liz for that, as well.

I did fall into a depression last March after quitting a job that was causing me to become depressed.

I think you mean March of 2022?

And it wasn't until this past October that I finally decided to see a psychiatrist to change my medications. Currently that has been going well and I am happy to say that things have been progressing nicely on that front.

That's great. So Liz is operating on the assumption that depressed/anxious you would spiral if she wanted to tell you she was unsatisfied with how you've been treating her/neglecting her. But since you've had counseling, gotten a better job, gotten better meds, etc., you feel strong enough to do the work to repair your relationship.

But you are correct about the communication skills. I know since the beginning of our relationship we have both gotten better, but obviously there is work to be done.


I had starting looking into this as an option the past 2 days. I had never considered this before so this is definitely some good and interesting poly structure for thought.

Oh, that's interesting. You didn't realize a long-term couple could agree to be non-hierarchical in their poly relationship structure. Yes, imposing a hierarchy can be seen as "mono-normative," based more on how swingers operate. Poly people are usually more independent, less entangled with their partners, while still of course maintaining an expectation of excellent communication, respect, consent, balance and all that good stuff.

Jane and I are both open to talking to a counselor as well as participating actively in relationship books and workbooks. We are going to look for a poly-friendly couples counselor this week. I know she is not currently seen a therapist on her own.

Thank you so much for taking the time to address my post point by point. I really appreciate the effort and thoughtfulness!

I hope both of your partners will be patient as you and Liz work to get your ducks in a row. Making sure you two are solid is key. Some poly couples will ask their OSOs to take a bit of a break, see them less or not at all for a while, as they focus on stabilizing their own relationship. Opening up is a huge transition! I'd recommend read the book Opening Up. It covers all the bases of mistakes that newbies make, how to fix things, how to avoid making new mistakes, things to expect, things to refuse to do, ways you might be feeling, how poly is different from swinging, what about marriage, etc., etc.