Lost...

[Lolaishere]

Hi there,

I thought it would be a good idea to turn to the forum again. I have been in a relationship with S for almost 10 years now, 5 years open. We don't live together. We do consider (I know, not very poly) this relationship primary. S is having a good time, dating regularly with mostly the same people. I have some trouble finding time and space to actually develop a connection with someone. I am not good at casual, so I am not seeing anyone else now.

I've always had a good relationship with S. But over the last months things have gotten difficult, not all at once, but slowly. I can't even explain very clearly why. S started a kind of 'I want to be more autonomous' process without involving me. He didn't talk about it.

After a while, he told me he felt he noticed he was often taking the role of 'rescuer' in our relationship and he wanted to change this. I understand what he's saying. I have periods of anxiety and panic attacks, during which I turn to him. However, I don't cling. I am pretty independent . I am doing better now, since I had group therapy last year, but I am not (nor will I ever be) an optimistic person that thinks 'lightly' about life. (I think a lot, I ask myself many questions, I feel a lot of emotions, etc...) I do notice sometimes that he is annoyed with me... little changes in his behaviour. But he would never say this openly to me.

We could talk safely before. I felt I could be completely myself in the relationship. But I've noticed this has changed. I am reluctant to talk about my feelings and 'issues.' I feel I cannot longer turn to S. He also doesn't want to do phone calls anymore. (They are too difficult to plan in busy schedules. We see each other 3 days per 14 days).

We were able to solve issues before in a gentle and understanding way. (We never had many issues, btw.) But now we seem not to be able to connect to each other. We don't understand each other. I feel unseen, like I can't be fully myself anymore, and he feels powerless because he says he is still loving and caring and doing his best, but I don't feel it.

We do try to communicate about this, but we both feel very hopeless when we do. We can't connect. We turn around in circles. We've already decided to turn to a therapist, and we will start 2 weeks from now.

Why I am writing on this forum is because I've started to notice (again) that I am becoming jealous of his polyamourous (or maybe I should say, in this case, more sexual) adventures. He has been involved with a dear friend of mine. She is my only polyamourous friend, a woman I turn to about these issues. We ended up in a spontaneous threesome in January, which for me was nice, for once.

He decided he would like to continue to see her every once in a while. He gets along with her really well. I am on and off okay with it, but not 100%. I kind of feel I lost a friend as well, because of them being involved now. I do try to deal with it, but since things are getting more and more difficult between us, I feel I cannot handle it at this moment. He went to a play party with her last week and it just made me feel awful.

I know and agree that polyamory is about taking responsibility for your own feelings. But I am starting to wonder. Might I have crossed my own boundaries in this, trying to be okay with him being with my friend (for his needs)? What is our common ground here? Should I deal with everything, just because I agreed to polyamory? Am I maybe not as polyamourous as I think? Or is this not about polyamory, but about me being in a relationship that is going through hard times?

I am a bit lost... I'm feeling a lot: anger, sadness, hopelessness, jealousy... and I'm judging myself for being so childish about him seeing my friend.

I wish he would take time first to solve this with me and not jump into bed weekly with other people.

I know this doesn't sound polyamourous at all. I am aware!!!

Please, no judgments, I already am a very competent judge for myself. Questions are very welcome to help me clarify. Thank you.

 

[Magdlyn]

Welcome to the group. You did a great job explaining your situation.

I'm glad your bf, let's call him Jake, has agreed to do some couples counseling. It sounds frustrating for both of you to not feel heard by the other. Maybe you'll be able to get the cards on the table with the therapist's help.

I guess you posted here to clarify your thoughts before you start therapy. The main issues seem to be this, as I see it.

You have a tendency towards anxiety and overthinking, but you're working on it
You don't do casual sex
You're not dating anyone but Jake because you're too busy
You've been with Jake ten years, open for five
Jake enjoys casual sex; he has X amount of other partners
Somehow, you and Jake had a one-off sexual threeway with your poly friend (let's call her Ann) in January (10 months ago)
Jake and Ann have been dating since; it's mostly a sexual thing
You regret having had the threesome; even though it was (unusually) fun in the moment, it has led to you "losing" Ann somewhat, since she's continued to date Jake
You're envious they went to a hot play party, even though you don't do casual sex
Jake used to be more supportive of you when you had a bad day (anxiety, intrusive thoughts or whatever)
Now Jake is pulling back from an emotional r'ship with you
He said he isn't interested in phone calls between dates, he's too busy

It sounds like your r'ship with Jake is evolving. He's pulling away a bit. He's enjoying being more independent. He's less interested in being an emotional support for you, so maybe it feels more like he only wants you for a more casual r'ship, as he has with his other partners. You don't like this. He hasn't really talked to you much about it.

You regret the thing he has with Ann, a good friend of yours. Many poly people put good friends on the "don't date these people" list, aka the "messy list." So your current feelings about this are understandable.

What do you want to have happen? it sounds like you want things to go back to how they were last year, Jake not dating Ann, being more of an emotional support for you, willing to have phone calls. But he's changed. He wants different things now. Maybe he's no longer the right guy for you. Maybe he doesn't want you as a "primary," or for you to think of him as your "primary." Maybe he thinks of himself a a single guy with several casual r'ships now, for whatever reason. Maybe you'll find out in therapy why he wants more casual physical r'ships over the deeper one he had with you.

 

[Lolaishere]

Wow I am impressed @Magdlyn you did a really good job summarising in different words and order my story. You are pretty right about a lot of things. Thank you for this.

I indeed feel (your last paragraph) that Jake has changed and I wish I could turn back time. I also indeed regret having presented my friend Ann to Jake. I know I can't turn back time..for me the question is whether I still feel there is enough base between Jake and I to continue. Or maybe we should redefine our r'ship. I already asked him if he still thinks/feels/considers me his primary partner, because i feel there is something going on there. What strikes me is that Jake was the one who sounded the alarm (is that correct?) in April saying that he didn't feel emotionally connected and that he was worried about this. On the other hand I have been feeling for quite a while (even before January) that gradually he pulled out emotionally. Some things happened in my polylife (heart ache, having a period during which I had some doubts about my relationship with Jake because I felt heavily in love with someone else) that really hit him, but he did not really show or talk about it. But I did feel him pull back, and I tried to talk about this.

So I have the impression that he started to protect himself from that point on. For me it also meant not feeling completely free in poly life anymore, because I know I hurt him and I know I can easily fall in love and not always with people that are best for me. So I am very cautious since this happened. Taking care of mine and his feelings (now that I think about it...)

And now we are dealing with some of the consequences of all this (not talking or taking over responsibility).
..
I look forward to couple's therapy. Right now i feel like everything is too much and too difficult and I notice a strong tendency in myself to wanting to be alone. I would like to take a break from seeing him or even texting him...I don't think that means I want to push him away, but I do feel I need (head)space and it just causes a lot of tension to be around him lately.

Do you think it is a good idea to take such a short break at this point or in a situation like this or would it make things worse connectionwise?

Thank you for reading.

 

[MeeraReed]

Your relationship is so similar to my own that I almost cried reading this. I am similarly going through a bad time with my longterm poly partner Eli who I don't live with and who has started a new relationship that I am struggling with.

I haven't wanted to post about my troubles here because I've considered myself one of the wise and successful poly people on this forum for many years now--very different from when I first came here in pain and doubt in 2010--and I have basically been bragging for 10 years about how awesome Eli is and how we found a style of poly that works for us in spite of our polar opposite personalities and needs.

Except this year we experienced serious disconnection and lack of communication for the first time, and then a new partner arrived on the scene, and I'm not sure if our relationship is going to survive.

What's relevant to you are the similarities:

We are both very independent and live separately, seeing each other infrequently but staying connected by daily phone calls...but the daily phone calls have now become difficult for us.

I also am too busy to date other people and don't particular seek or enjoy casual sex. He has always dated plenty and had plenty of casual sex, which I have always supported and even admired him for.

But he started become even more autonomous since the pandemic (and we already were maximally autonomous!), planning parties and events that did not involve me, starting casual relationships with friends (of his, not mine) who are always hanging out platonically at his house which makes me feel awkward when I go to stay there, and complaining about doing the things he normally used to do to emotionally support me (which I had thought were pretty simple and enjoyable for him, because honestly I am not a very needy person).

We also both had a REALLY tough couple years since 2021 in which my father's Parkinson's advanced to the point that he needed 24/7 care and developed dementia, causing me incredible stress and reducing my availability to travel to Eli's house; meanwhile Eli got diagnosed with a serious chronic illness of his own, with serious chronic pain that he is still learning to manage; and Eli's newly purchased house proved to have serious problems that required a second mortgage and other incurred debt, plus months of construction work to fix; and his longtime platonic domestic partner Violet had some sort of nervous breakdown and became difficult to live with but so far refuses to move out.

Both of us withdraw and become more independent during stress, which has previously worked well for us (many joyous reconnections with great sex!) but now has made us disconnected. We attempted couples therapy but could not find a virtual therapist that had a setup for two people in separate houses to both join the zoom session from separate locations! Super weird actually--all couples do not live together!

Now Eli has rushed into a serious romantic live-in relationship and I am frankly devastated. We are trying to work things out but it doesn't feel the same.

I am debating whether to give up on a relationship that has brought me such joy and fulfillment for the past 12 years.

So I don't have any answers for you, except that I feel for you.

 

[Magdlyn]

Meera honey, I am so sorry to hear about all the terrible stress, illnesses and hardship, and now the big change in Eli's mate status! Even "poly experts" can go through changes and experience hard things. I am glad you shared and I hope something can be salvaged. I shed a tear for you.

 

[Lolaishere]

Your relationship is so similar to my own that I almost cried reading this. I am similarly going through a bad time with my longterm poly partner Eli who I don't live with and who has started a new relationship that I am struggling with.

I haven't wanted to post about my troubles here because I've considered myself one of the wise and successful poly people on this forum for many years now--very different from when I first came here in pain and doubt in 2010--and I have basically been bragging for 10 years about how awesome Eli is and how we found a style of poly that works for us in spite of our polar opposite personalities and needs.

Except this year we experienced serious disconnection and lack of communication for the first time, and then a new partner arrived on the scene, and I'm not sure if our relationship is going to survive.

What's relevant to you are the similarities:

We are both very independent and live separately, seeing each other infrequently but staying connected by daily phone calls...but the daily phone calls have now become difficult for us.

I also am too busy to date other people and don't particular seek or enjoy casual sex. He has always dated plenty and had plenty of casual sex, which I have always supported and even admired him for.

But he started become even more autonomous since the pandemic (and we already were maximally autonomous!), planning parties and events that did not involve me, starting casual relationships with friends (of his, not mine) who are always hanging out platonically at his house which makes me feel awkward when I go to stay there, and complaining about doing the things he normally used to do to emotionally support me (which I had thought were pretty simple and enjoyable for him, because honestly I am not a very needy person).

We also both had a REALLY tough couple years since 2021 in which my father's Parkinson's advanced to the point that he needed 24/7 care and developed dementia, causing me incredible stress and reducing my availability to travel to Eli's house; meanwhile Eli got diagnosed with a serious chronic illness of his own, with serious chronic pain that he is still learning to manage; and Eli's newly purchased house proved to have serious problems that required a second mortgage and other incurred debt, plus months of construction work to fix; and his longtime platonic domestic partner Violet had some sort of nervous breakdown and became difficult to live with but so far refuses to move out.

Both of us withdraw and become more independent during stress, which has previously worked well for us (many joyous reconnections with great sex!) but now has made us disconnected. We attempted couples therapy but could not find a virtual therapist that had a setup for two people in separate houses to both join the zoom session from separate locations! Super weird actually--all couples do not live together!

Now Eli has rushed into a serious romantic live-in relationship and I am frankly devastated. We are trying to work things out but it doesn't feel the same.

I am debating whether to give up on a relationship that has brought me such joy and fulfillment for the past 12 years.

So I don't have any answers for you, except that I feel for you.

Oh and I feel for you too. How does Eli feel about this? Do you know? And I understand and recognize completely your inner debate...
It is so hard, sad en frustrating also to be in this situation...and feeling like the connection is slipping through your fingers.

[Before this r'ship I was mono and married for 10 years and we fought a lot, we always had conflict and treated each other badly...it was awful. But for some reasons this situation almost feels worse and so terribly sad: two people who always have been great with each other and who now feel so lost (and they are not even are being nasty to each other... but then also I think: maybe Jake and I are not that great, because apparently despite our efforts (or greatness) we also missed a few things or we avoided the difficult stuff, thinking we would be okay.]

Sending you a Big Big Hug from far away...

 

[MeeraReed]

Thanks for your kind words. I just posted a lengthy update on a previous thread about my relationship with Eli.

 

[Magdlyn]

Some things happened in my poly life (heartache, having a period during which I had some doubts about my relationship with Jake because I felt heavily in love with someone else) that really hit him, but he did not really show or talk about it. But I did feel him pull back, and I tried to talk about this.

So I have the impression that he started to protect himself from that point on. For me, it also meant not feeling completely free in poly life anymore, because I know I hurt him and I know I can easily fall in love and not always with people that are best for me. So I am very cautious since this happened. Taking care of my feelings and and his (now that I think about it...)

And now we are dealing with some of the consequences of all this (not talking or taking over responsibility).

Ah, so you have other reasons for not dating anyone besides Jake. You fell for someone else, and Jake didn't deal with it well? So you have stopped yourself from dating to avoid facing this? And it has created distance between you because you aren't feeling heard and he's shut you out? Was he jealous or something? Or did it go badly with the other guy and you wanted Jake to be your support system but he couldn't handle it? (One of our poly partners is not required to be our support system when another relationship has problems. Some partners are fine doing it, but others find it uncomfortable.)

I look forward to couple's therapy. Right now I feel like everything is too much and too difficult. I notice a strong tendency in myself to wanting to be alone. I would like to take a break from seeing him or even texting him... I don't think that means I want to push him away, but I do feel I need (head)space and it just causes a lot of tension to be around him lately.

Do you think it is a good idea to take a short break at this point, in a situation like this, or would it make things worse connection-wise?

If this issue stems from that earlier incident that was kind of swept under the rug, you could take a break and wait until you see if a session or two of therapy starts to break the ice. There's no use acting fake happy or like you're fine with being demoted to casual gf. Also you might not want to keep asking him if you're his primary. That might feel like pressure. If someone wants to be your primary, they'll tell you, and you'll believe them. It will be obvious.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Lolaishere,

In poly, you can have primary (and secondary) relationships. Some people proscribe hierarchical poly, but I'm not one of those people. What you do have to do, is figure out what works for you.

It sounds a bit like you and Jake have grown apart. If you are going to continue to be with Jake, you are going to have to figure out what (if anything) to do about the disconnect between you. It's good that you have an appointment with a therapist. The therapist can help you identify and sort out your feelings.

You are possibly jealous in two respects: one, in that Jake is not exclusively yours ... and two: in that Jake has "stolen" your friend. And maybe you have tried to act "not jealous," and help and support them in every way, and you just have gotten burned out from all that effort.

Is Jake "speaking to you" in your love language? What is your love language? There are five to choose from: Words of Affirmation, Quality Time, Receiving Gifts, Acts of Service, and Physical Touch. Which one of those do you "speak?" For example, Jake could be doing "Acts of Service," but that does not feel like love to you because "Quality Time" is your love language. That's just a hypothetical example, but you get the idea.

Go forward with your plans to talk to the therapist. In the meantime, I see no reason why you can't pull back a little, and give yourself some "space." You might want to give Jake notice that that is what you are doing (and why).

Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.

 

[Lolaishere]

Ah, so you have other reasons for not dating anyone besides Jake. You fell for someone else, and Jake didn't deal with it well? So you have stopped yourself from dating to avoid facing this? And it has created distance between you because you aren't feeling heard and he's shut you out? Was he jealous or something? Or did it go badly with the other guy and you wanted Jake to be your support system but he couldn't handle it? (One of our poly partners is not required to be our support system when another relationship has problems. Some partners are fine doing it, but others find it uncomfortable.)

If this issue stems from that earlier incident that was kind of swept under the rug, you could take a break and wait until you see if a session or two of therapy starts to break the ice. There's no use acting fake happy or like you're fine with being demoted to casual gf. Also you might not want to keep asking him if you're his primary. That might feel like pressure. If someone wants to be your primary, they'll tell you, and you'll believe them. It will be obvious.

Hi, thanks for answering again and for your questions. I'll try to answer some.

Yes, I fell for someone else, and it caused me doubts in my r'ship with Jake, probably because there already was some distance between us.
When the r'ship was over with the other person it had a huge impact on me. I didn't talk about it all the time, but yes, Jake supported me (maybe he crossed some boundaries there) and it simply had an impact on me and my well-being. Actually I also discussed this with my therapist that I had back then, because I saw some pretty heavy connections to my childhood and fear of abandonment.

So I worked it through, but I noticed that the impact on Jake kind of (in retrospect) was much bigger than I thought at that time or than he showed. This made me cautious, because of him, but also because of myself. I don't want to trigger some trauma again by dating certain people. (I know who triggers me, but it is not always easy to keep away from it.)

And thanks for warning me about the primary issue. I am not putting pressure here on him. I only asked him once last weekend in a more explorative way.

Thank you, I hope we can work it out and find a way... It feels messy, but at least we are doing something with it.

 

[Lolaishere]

It sounds a bit like you and Jake have grown apart. If you are going to continue to be with Jake, you are going to have to figure out what (if anything) to do about the disconnect between you. It's good that you have an appointment with a therapist. The therapist can help you identify and sort out your feelings.

Yes....

 

[Lolaishere]

Hi Lolaishere,

In poly, you can have primary (and secondary) relationships. Some people proscribe hierarchical poly, but I'm not one of those people. What you do have to do, is figure out what works for you.

It sounds a bit like you and Jake have grown apart. If you are going to continue to be with Jake, you are going to have to figure out what (if anything) to do about the disconnect between you. It's good that you have an appointment with a therapist. The therapist can help you identify and sort out your feelings.

You are possibly jealous in two respects: one, in that Jake is not exclusively yours ... and two: in that Jake has "stolen" your friend. And maybe you have tried to act "not jealous," and help and support them in every way, and you just have gotten burned out from all that effort.

Is Jake "speaking to you" in your love language? What is your love language? There are five to choose from: Words of Affirmation, Quality Time, Receiving Gifts, Acts of Service, and Physical Touch. Which one of those do you "speak?" For example, Jake could be doing "Acts of Service," but that does not feel like love to you because "Quality Time" is your love language. That's just a hypothetical example, but you get the idea.

Go forward with your plans to talk to the therapist. In the meantime, I see no reason why you can't pull back a little, and give yourself some "space." You might want to give Jake notice that that is what you are doing (and why).

Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.

Thank you, Kevin, for sharing your thoughts. I know the love languages and yes, we differ in that. We are aware. For me it is hard to connect on the physical level now (his love language)... Mine is spending quality time (which includes talking about things ).

About the jealousy. I am more jealous now because I feel he's pulling away and I am afraid he will leave me. If I am more sure of our connection I am less jealous. It is always something I struggle with, but I learned during all the poly years to deal with it. But now it has comme back very strong.

And yes, I am also a little irritated that he has continued with my friend, knowing it was hard for me. But I didn't set a clear boundary there. We don't have a right to veto in our r'ship , but I guess I tried too hard to be fine with it.

Also because a while ago he asked me what I would think if he dated my friend. He said something like: okay, it is good to know your opinion on this. (me not particularly liking this). I am not sure how to proceed with her, but I really would like to do what I want.

This was the first time he expressed such a strong opinion on doing what HE wanted. Before this, we would agree on these kind of things. But now I felt I wasn't really taken into account. I did ask him back then if he could wait a little, because we weren't very okay together. Which he did for a while. But now he does see her and things between us have not gotten better.

I do need some time to process, I guess... I feel very emotional as well these days. Very sad.

Thank you for responding and sharing your ideas. I appreciate all the reactions I am getting here.

 

[Magdlyn]

Hi, thanks for answering again and for your questions. I'll try to answer some.

Yes, I fell for someone else, and it caused me doubts in my r'ship with Jake, probably because there already was some distance between us.

Oh, so the distance was already happening before you went through that other messy r'ship. I see. Jake's desire for independence was already in place.

When the r'ship was over with the other person it had a huge impact on me. I didn't talk about it all the time, but yes, Jake supported me (maybe he crossed some boundaries there) and it simply had an impact on me and my well-being. Actually I also discussed this with my therapist that I had back then, because I saw some pretty heavy connections to my childhood and fear of abandonment.

So I worked it through, but I noticed that the impact on Jake kind of (in retrospect) was much bigger than I thought at that time or than he showed. This made me cautious, because of him, but also because of myself. I don't want to trigger some trauma again by dating certain people. (I know who triggers me, but it is not always easy to keep away from it.)

It's good to separate all the layers, so you can work on them bit by bit, and not just have one big tangled ball of yarn.

And thanks for warning me about the primary issue. I am not putting pressure here on him. I only asked him once last weekend in a more explorative way.

Thank you, I hope we can work it out and find a way... It feels messy, but at least we are doing something with it.

I hope you get some clarity. It's best to lean in and find out what's really happening, than to be in the dark! Then you can make progress and feel better in the end, even if the journey is hard as f**k.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Lola,

It seems that your jealousy corresponds with your fear of losing Jake. And wow, Jake is really taking your feelings (about him dating your friend) lightly. "Okay, it is good to know your opinion on this." And then proceeds to pursue your friend, even while knowing you were not okay with it.

Sympathetically,
Kevin T.

 

[Lolaishere]

Oh, so the distance was already happening before you went through that other messy r'ship. I see. Jake's desire for independence was already in place.

It's good to separate all the layers, so you can work on them bit by bit, and not just have one big tangled ball of yarn.

I hope you get some clarity. It's best to lean in and find out what's really happening, than to be in the dark! Then you can make progress and feel better in the end, even if the journey is hard as f**k.

Thanks @Magdlyn, this is definitely true.

 

[Lolaishere]

Hi Lola,

It seems that your jealousy corresponds with your fear of losing Jake. And wow, Jake is really taking your feelings (about him dating your friend) lightly. "Okay, it is good to know your opinion on this." And then proceeds to pursue your friend, even while knowing you were not okay with it.

Sympathetically,
Kevin T.

Yes, well, there is a lot to talk about between Jake and I. I look forward to the therapy. I really do. Thank you, Kevin.

 

[kdt26417]

No problem, I hope you make good progress in therapy.