Primary/secondary mismatch!

C

ChillyPan272

New member
I'm just after some advice, because I feel in a really awkward position. I am married to my primary partner (nesting partner also) and also now recently have gotten a secondary partner, who I am in a long-distance relationship with. For background, my secondary partner and I had been best friends for decades before we realised we were actually more than that and started an intimate relationship. However, where it gets tricky is that she is in a rocky relationship with her nesting partner, who I assumed was obviously her primary partner (they’ve lived together for years), and when I questioned the sanity of us being in a relationship while she is navigating that with him she turned around and said to her that I was her primary partner and would always be! Help!
 
What do you need help with, exactly? What's your question?
 
Is this ethically right for me to continue? With us both seeing the relationship in such different terms? I guess that’s what I’m asking. I feel like I’m unable to fulfil the role of a primary partner to her but she disagrees…
 
The thing about the terms primary/ secondary is that they can mean different things to different people. Some use it to describe the emotional connection - so your partner might feel you are the person primarily meeting her needs that way. Some use it as a signifier of entanglement - like I have to admit that Hubby is my primary due to shared finances, coparenting, and cohabiting leading to him getting a bit of priority in scheduling and big decisions and such.

How do YOU define primary? Is your husband #1 no matter what? If he decides no poly, will you break up with other partners (or specific partners if he gives an ultimatum/veto)? Is he always the first person you go to for support? Is it the shared home/life?

It's hard to say whether the dynamic is uneven without knowing how you both define the labels.
 
I'm sorry you're struggling. This sounds hard.

For background, my secondary partner and I had been best friends for decades before we realised we were actually more than that and started an intimate relationship.
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I'm not being rude. But what does that mean? Everyone is practicing polyamory, so it's fine that you and BestFriend started dating and sharing sex? Or was this cheating, so BestFriend is now having problems with their nesting partner? Or is BestFriend seeing you as the "exit strategy" from an unhappy nesting relationship? Or something else?


However, where it gets tricky is that she is in a rocky relationship with her nesting partner, who I assumed was obviously her primary partner (they’ve lived together for years),
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They are nesting partners if they live together. Now you have learned not to assume. In polyamory people might have more than one primary partner.

and when I questioned the sanity of us being in a relationship while she is navigating that with him
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In poly dating things like this are going to happen.

Red and Orange date each other.
Red also dates Blue. Orange is dating Green.
Red and Blue have a fight and are breaking up. What? Does that mean they have to dump Orange too?
Orange and Green were going to go on vacation. What? Does Red having issues with Blue and wanting comforting from Orange mean Orange has to cancel their vacation with Green?

That said, if you haven't been dating her very long and prefer to bow out until she deals with her rocky nesting relationship, you can do that, and tell her you prefer not to date while that's going on.

she turned around and said that I was her primary partner and would always be! Help!
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This kind of reminds me of a conversation I had with a person in my life named Leaf. They said I was their best friend. I said I was flattered, but they were not MY best friend. My best friend is Scarecrow. Leaf was my longest friend, but not my best friend.

Here, if this is primary-secondary, if she feels like you are her primary, or longest relationship, or whatever it is emotionally, she can feel what she feels.

On your side, you can be kind but firm. "I'm flattered. But for me, so we understand each other, you are my best friend and secondary relationship."

Some people want to leave it at a primary-secondary model. Some people outgrow it and want to move on to working toward co-primaries.

What is it YOU want from this relationship? Maybe you are ok with working toward co-primary OVER TIME, but you aren't crazy about making such declarations so soon. Like, monogamous people don't start "going steady" from the first date.

Is this ethically right for me to continue?
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Measured against whose personal ethics, yours? Only you can answer that.

With us both seeing the relationship in such different terms? I guess that’s what I’m asking. I feel like I’m unable to fulfil the role of a primary partner to her but she disagrees…
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What behaviors or role does she want you to fulfill? You have to calibrate the language.

What do you MEAN when you say "primary partner?" What behaviors are those?

What does she MEAN when she says it? Are you both talking about the same thing?

If you both mean the same thing, and you are being realistic and telling her what you actually can and cannot do, but she's all caught up in NRE feelings and not listening, and wanting you to do more than you can actually do, becoming a pest, in your shoes, I'd break up with her.

This is all your call. Your consent to participate in things belongs to you. If this is going against your personal ethics, drop out.

Galagirl
 
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AlwaysGrowing said:
The thing about the terms primary/ secondary is that they can mean different things to different people. Some use it to describe the emotional connection - so your partner might feel you are the person primarily meeting her needs that way. Some use it as a signifier of entanglement - like I have to admit that Hubby is my primary due to shared finances, coparenting, and cohabiting leading to him getting a bit of priority in scheduling and big decisions and such.

How do YOU define primary? Is your husband #1 no matter what? If he decides no poly, will you break up with other partners (or specific partners if he gives an ultimatum/veto)? Is he always the first person you go to for support? Is it the shared home/life?

It's hard to say whether the dynamic is uneven without knowing how you both define the labels.
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Thanks for your comment. It’s really helpful. I think you’re right. My hubby is primary, because we literally spend our day-to-day life together and share so much, yes.

Whereas for her, that doesn’t equate a primary. It’s more about feelings. Which is fine, I love her a lot too. I feel like being a primary partner is being there and doing those everyday things, but that’s not what she’s saying she needs from a primary relationship.

The other point that you raise gives me more concern though. Yes, if my hubby said no to polyamory I would respect his wishes. My commitment is ultimately to him. I'm not saying I would be happy about it, but it is what it is. However, I know for a fact that if her partner suddenly gave her an ultimatum, she would choose me and would leave him behind, not because of the issues they are facing currently, but because her main commitment is towards me. That does make me feel bad, but I suppose I can’t control the way she feels.

Ultimately, I just don’t want to think that I am taking advantage of her in any way, as that is not my intention, and I care about her infinitely.
 
Sorry, my mistake. I hit post before I replied!

To your first question, no, that is not the case at all. I have been poly for some time. My best friend has always been monogamous, but recently, with the help of counselling, has come to the realisation that polyamory is what is right for her, too. All that was happening while things between us were becoming more and more romantic, and also flirty. She admitted she had long had feelings for me, and I realised, at almost exactly the same time, that I felt the same.

Neither of us are cheating. She is trying to work on her relationship with her partner, not trying to leave.

Yes, you are right. I could make the decision to bow out while she deals with her other relationship issues. I raised this possibility with her and offered to do so, and she very firmly declined!

Towards the end of your comment, I think you’re echoing what the previous poster said and what I’m coming to realise. She can feel whatever she wants to feel, I suppose!

No, she’s not expecting more of me. I’m ultimately putting those pressures on myself (aren’t I?) by having my own (different) ideas of what role a primary partner needs to fulfill. I think we both want the same thing from each other at this stage. We're just labeling it differently.

Many thanks for your advice, both of you. You’re helping me gain some clarity, for sure.
 
Thanks for more info.

It's hard to follow without names. I'm happy to go with what you want, but for sake of easier writing...

There's you,
Married to Red,
Dating Orange,
Who is nesting partners with Blue.

No she’s not expecting more of me, I’m ultimately putting those pressures on myself aren’t I by having my own (different) ideas of what role a primary partner needs to fulfill. I think we both want the same thing from each other at this stage just label it differently.
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It might be worth having the conversation with Orange to calibrate your language, then. And be super clear with current expectaitons:

  • You and Orange date.
    • You expect Orange to do/share ___ behaviors.
    • Orange expets you to do/share ___ behaviors.
    • Maybe you want to look at the relationship menu so you are clear what is and is not at the table at this time. Then revisit a year later in case anything changes.
  • At this time? You nest with Red.
  • At this time? Orange nests with Blue.
  • At this time? If your husband Red wants to quit poly, you are changing to monogamy with him and would dump Orange.
  • At this time? If Blue wants to quit poly, Orange would dump Blue.
However I know for a fact if her partner suddenly gave her an ultimatum, she would choose me and to leave him behind. Not because of the issues they are facing currently, but her main commitment is towards me. That does make me feel bad, but I suppose I can’t control the way she feels.
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Gently... is Orange not a grownup who can make her own decisions? What business is it of yours if she decides to dump her nesting partner Blue, and keeps on dating you? People can make choices in their life.

Ultimately I just don’t want to think that I am taking advantage of her in any way as that is not my intention and I care about her infinitely.
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Why do you think you are taking advantage of Orange, because you have more poly experience and she's a newbie? Or are you needing different boundaries now that you date? Like when you were best friends, sharing about her other romantic relationship was ok, because you were OUTSIDE that system, a safe venting ear to process with, who was not involved?

And now that you're dating Orange too, you have become part of her dating network. You are now IN the system. So now you don't want to be her sounding board, like you used to be, for her relationship with her nesting partner, because now Blue is your meta and it makes things weird, like a conflict of interest? And you don't want to be accused of trying to rope her off for yourself, or something?

I'm guessing. I could be totally wrong. But it sounds like this transition from "best friends" to "dating partners" has some challenges.

Galagirl
 
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You’re absolutely right, it isn’t any of my business who she chooses to date is it?

I have this habit from childhood of trying to fix everyone else’s problems and overly worry about how they’re feeling when it really isn’t my business to get involved with, thanks for the reminder!

I also think you’ve hit the nail on the head with your latter paragraphs. It does feel weird having an opinion on Blue (especially as it’s mostly very negative!) because I don’t want that to seem like I’m acting in my own interests like you say. I think that’s what I need to back out of, not out of the relationship with her!
 
ChillyPan272 said:
The other point that you raise gives me more concern though. Yes, if my hubby said no to polyamory I would respect his wishes. My commitment is ultimately to him. I'm not saying I would be happy about it, but it is what it is.
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I personally think it's only unethical to continue if you don't make this clear to her. She has a right to know that your husband has that kind of power over her relationship with you. That is, unfortunately, one of the biggest risks of dating married poly folks though.

I've been the target of a veto before and it SUCKED. So much. Others here have too. It's one of the reasons that I would lose all respect for either of my partners if they ever gave me an ultimatum or tried to veto someone. Communicate concerns respectfully while recognizing I still have autonomy? Cool, it's happened before and I did end up ending the relationship because I could see the red flags they pointed out once I really looked (nre is great at clouding judgment lol).

For your situation though... just be honest about what you can and can't offer. It's up to her if she thinks it's enough. Also, consider the long term and encourage her to do the same. No sense in risking an amazing friendship for a relationship with an expiration date (like if she knows she's going to want to be acknowledged publicly as partner while you want to stay closeted or another big issue like that).

New relationships can be tricky. A history like your friendship can either make it way simpler or way more complicated. Just depends on the situation. New relationships with newly nonmono people are usually tricky too. Just communicate!
 
We are kinda posting at the same time. I'm glad it helped you some.

I have this habit from childhood of trying to fix everyone else’s problems and overly worry about how they’re feeling when it really isn’t my business to get involved with, thanks for the reminder!
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That might have been what you learned to do to get through your childhood, to fix things, and keep people happy, so they don't "rain doom" on you. Kids don't get many options. But you are an adult now and have presumably moved out, so it's ok to let habit that go.


I also think you’ve hit the nail on the head with your latter paragraphs. It does feel weird having an opinion on Blue (especially as it’s mostly very negative!) because I don’t want that to seem like I’m acting in my own interests like you say. I think that’s what I need to back out of, not out of the relationship with her!
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Then leave (Orange + Blue) on them to solve. They are the ones in that dyad.

And of Orange asks you, you could say "No, thank you. I prefer to stay out if it. I'm dating you now, so I can't be impartial. I think (you+Blue) stuff is on you two to solve. If you need to process, talk to your counselor and/or another trusted friend, people who are OUTSIDE the system."

Galagirl
 
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AlwaysGrowing said:
I personally think it's only unethical to continue if you don't make this clear to her. She has a right to know that your husband has that kind of power over her relationship with you. That is, unfortunately, one of the biggest risks of dating married poly folks though.

I've been the target of a veto before and it SUCKED. So much. Others here have too. It's one of the reasons that I would lose all respect for either of my partners if they ever gave me an ultimatum or tried to veto someone. Communicate concerns respectfully while recognizing I still have autonomy? Cool, it's happened before and I did end up ending the relationship because I could see the red flags they pointed out once I really looked (nre is great at clouding judgment lol).

For your situation though... just be honest about what you can and can't offer. It's up to her if she thinks it's enough. Also, consider the long term and encourage her to do the same. No sense in risking an amazing friendship for a relationship with an expiration date (like if she knows she's going to want to be acknowledged publicly as partner while you want to stay closeted or another big issue like that).

New relationships can be tricky. A history like your friendship can either make it way simpler or way more complicated. Just depends on the situation. New relationships with newly nonmono people are usually tricky too. Just communicate!
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I totally agree with you. I can’t ever see my hubby setting any sort ultimatum like that! He never ever has. We absolutely do communicate about everything. I was just answering your hypothetical question. Also, of course, if it was for a good reason (like you said with the red flag situation, I previously had the same when he was speaking out to protect me), then I would respect what he’s saying.

I absolutely am and will continue to be honest with her too, as well. Thanks again for your advice.
 
GalaGirl said:
That might have been what you learned to do to get through your childhood, to fix things, and keep people happy, so they don't "rain doom" on you. Kids don't get many options. But you are an adult now and have presumably moved out, so it's ok to let habit that go. Then leave (Orange + Blue) on them to solve. They are the ones in that dyad.

And if Orange asks you, you could say, "No, thank you. I prefer to stay out if it. I'm dating you now, so I can't be impartial. I think (you+Blue) stuff is on you two to solve. If you need to process, talk to your counselor and/or another trusted friend, people who are OUTSIDE the system."
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Normally, I would agree with this. But in the case of two best friends, who have been emotionally supporting each other for decades, pulling this rug out from under both of them, this deep emotional support and nurturing, might feel very unsettling, upsetting, and strange.
 
I think they can still share deep emotional support and nurturing about all the other topics, just maybe not THIS one, at least not for the first year of the poly relationship. But maybe never again. People can have whatever personal boundaries they want to have. OP doesn't have to be up for listening to Orange go on and on about their problems with Blue "like before." This ISN'T like before. They are dating now. Things have changed.

ChillyPan's consent to do things or not belongs to them. If they no longer want to deep talk about Blue, rhey don't have to.

It might feel weird. But that's the price of admission if you want to date your best friend. Things will CHANGE.

GG
 
The most important thing is you both discuss how you feel and what you want/expect from this relationship. Usually, in mono/poly relationships, where one is poly and one is mono, you’ll have that primary/secondary dynamic. That’s perfectly okay if both people know about it and are okay with it. That's one of the many things I love about polyamory. I can have whatever relationship develops for me with each individual. And that relationship can be called something very different than what they call it, as long as we are both on the same page about what it is and where it could go.

I know people who have comet partners, who work a lot and travel a ton, who could not establish any kind of monogamous relationship, because they are always gone. To one, it’s a comet partner. To the other, it’s a primary partner.

If you are fulfilling what your partner needs as their primary, then you can be that for them, regardless of where it fits on your spectrum.
 
GalaGirl said:
I think they can still share deep emotional support and nurturing about all the other topics, just maybe not THIS one, at least not for the first year of the poly relationship. But maybe never again. People can have whatever personal boundaries they want to have. OP doesn't have to be up for listening to Orange go on and on about their problems with Blue "like before." This ISN'T like before. They are dating now. Things have changed.

ChillyPan's consent to do things or not belongs to them. If she no longer wants to have deep talks about Blue, she doesn't have to.

It might feel weird. But that's the price of admission if you want to date your best friend. Things will CHANGE.
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Again, I'd advise caution about changing the modes of support just because romance has entered the equation. I would not lay this down as a rule (for the "first year," or not). It may or MAY NOT work. Orange might be devastated if Chilly turned her back on her partner suddenly in regards to this (or any other) topic. Chilly isn't suddenly automatically a huge competition for Blue.

I am just saying this because I've been in a poly relationship with my own girlfriend/partner for 15 years. (I am non-binary, but pretty femme.) We've always had a way of acting around emotional things whereby we CAN and DO support each other when our other relationships are going through changes (either good or bad). I think it's a girl thing. Women are good at talking about their emotions. Pixi and I are good at non-violent communication. She has supported me through breakups with other partners, and vice versa, to no ill effects.

I try not to go "on and on" about my other relationships, but if I am super upset, or if something just needs tweaking, Pixi will empathize and want to help (and vice versa) and it really doesn't harm our own relationship, nor does it overly villianize the other partner(s). We can still offer each other an outside perspective, maybe even because we know each other's minds so well. Neither of us is trying to "fix" the other's relationships.

But that's just my own decade-and-a-half of experience, Chilly. YMMV.

I think it's different, generally speaking, in a scenario where there's a long-term MF mono couple, who are opening up to poly, and one or both are having issues with their newer partners. In that case, there could/would be more bias and competition involved if they tried to vent to each other and get support around their OSOs.
 
I totally agree in some respects, and I don’t want to abandon her in her needs, but I have literally nothing good to say about her partner, and now don’t want that to seem to come from a self-serving position! (It’s not at all.) It just puts me in a very tricky position…
 
ChillyPan272 said:
I totally agree in some respects, and I don’t want to abandon her in her needs, but I have literally nothing good to say about her partner, and now don’t want that to seem to come from a self-serving position! (It’s not at all.) It just puts me in a very tricky position…
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Well, if she knows your opinion on Blue already, as long as you don't get even harsher in your words about him, I would think it would be fine. You're not trying to rope her away from him for your own benefit. You're coming from a good place, where you just want her to be happy, and she knows that, I'm sure.
 
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