MFM-Vee Relationship Start

[der_bayer4]

Hi,

We are a couple (M58/F39), together for 18 years now. We have 2 girls, 12 and 14 years old.

We have tried some swinging, but found it did not work for us. Then my wife had 1-2 sexual relations, and with one of them she connected, over the years, online. Recently they met again in person (spent a 3-day weekend together), and ignited their flames again. He (M55) is similar to me, but also different in many ways, of course. His 2 kids are grown up, have jobs and are living on their own.

My wife is a Libra and is one of the most direct and balanced people I have ever met. She amazes me all the time with the way she can departmentalise.

My wife and I communicate very openly and directly. This is how our relationship grew stronger. She can be sexually more active then me, but would never stray unless we chatted about it. For her, a connection is required. Just strictly sex is not attractive enough for her.

When we discussed what makes him different, she replied: the sex, and that he fully concentrates on her and makes her feel like the only woman around.

Now she's asked me if I would be open to letting him into our relationship and forming a kind of triad. First a little, and later (years later) possibly living together, when our kids are big enough and out of the house, or potentially telling our kids.

Right now, he lives far away, which makes it impossible, but by the end of the year his company will be transferring him to the same city that we are living in. He is in a marriage that is loveless. He's said himself that his wife does not miss him when he is not there. In the long term, it sounds like he may or not may not leave her. We are very aware of his family, and he's made it clear that family comes first. (Odd, when he is hardly ever home.)

So, now we are faced with some decisions and are looking for advice.

1) How to make it work
We (my wife and I) have started to talk about it a bit. But so far, he has just said that we would talk about it when the transfer was confirmed or when he moves.
2) How to balance our friends, work (both my wife and I work full time), our two kids and our limited free time
We both worry that this will be very difficult. I worry that it will put a lot of strain on her (she is, for sure, the anchor in our V) when she knows he lives here, but will be limited or strained to see him.
3) My wife and I are used to very open communication (she tells me about most things when she is with him, and likewise, I tell her when something is on my mind). On the other side, he seems to be less communicative when it involves me. She's told me that on some occasions he has told her, "Don't tell him this."
4) Could it be that he only wants time alone with her, but nothing further?
5) When my wife and I talked, she said, in her mind, once he arrives here, she would like to see him once a week to start, and then see how things went.
6) Has anyone had experience with talking to the kids about this?

I am sure more and more questions will be coming up, but my wife and I thought that writing about it here, and more communication, would give us more ideas. At this time we plan to have a talk together, the 3 of us, when its possible (either online before he comes or in person).

I would love to hear back. Please ask any questions you like.

MX couple for now

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

When he moves, I'd just treat it like any other poly relationship, where they're dating. Once a week sounds like a common frequency. Let him establish his own life in your city, sort out how he maintains contact with his kids, decide what he wants to do with his marriage. In the meantime, he and your wife can date and tackle issues like "Should we tell the kids?" as singular debates, as they become relevant, rather than all focused on this one connection with a certain individual.

If I were her, I'd be discouraging of any notion of him leaving his wife "for" me. I may be happy to date someone before, during, and after a separation, but not if I had the idea that our relationship was a significant incentive to leave. It's a fine line.

 

[der_bayer4]

When he moves, I'd just treat it like any other poly relationship where they're dating. Once a week sounds a common frequency. Let him establish his own life in your city. Sort out how he maintains contact with his kids. Let him decide what he wants to do with his marriage. In the meantime, him and your wife date and tackle issues like "should we tell the kids?" as singular debates as they become relevant to you. Rather than all focused on this one connection with a certain individual.

If I was her, I'd be discouraging of any notion of him leaving his wife "for" me. I may be happy to date someone before, during, and after a separation, but not if I had the idea that our relationship was a significant incentive to leave. It's a fine line.

Thanks for your reply and good advice. Yes, my wife feels the same way as you described about his marriage. She said that it's important that he is married, and that at no point, did or would she tell him to leave his wife. But of course, at the same time, she would like him on a closer relations with us down the road. Possibly that is her way of thinking that it may or may not happen.

 

[Bobbi]

Now she asked me if I was open to let him into our relationship and forming a kind of triad.

What do you mean by this? Everything else sounds like she is dating him, so it’s a V.

How does she want him in your relationship? Are you guys attracted to each other and want to date? Does she want you to date each other? Has she talked to him to see if that’s an option, or is she trying to decide this for both of you?

A triad is a structure where everyone has a relationship with everyone else, plus all three together. Was she talking about a V, where you all live together, and she has relationships with you and him, but you guys don’t have a relationship with each other?

 

[der_bayer4]

What do you mean by this? Everything else sounds like she is dating him so it’s a V. How does she want him in your relationship? Are you guys attracted to each other and want to date? Does she want you to date? Has she talked to him to see if that’s an option or is she trying to decide this for both of you? Striad is a structure where everyone has a relationship with everyone else and all 3 together. Was she talking more about a V, where you all live together, she has relationships with you and him, but you guys don’t have a relationship with each other?

Hi Bobbi,

He and I are both straight. Dates will be strictly between her and him, and her and me, and sometimes the 3 of us. Sexually, we are taking it slow and letting him decide what he wants. We are okay with him joining, but it's all around pleasuring her, which in turn brings us pleasure. Yes, the V that we are thinking of is that at one point we would all live together, with him and me as friends. But there is still some way to go to get there.

 

[Magdlyn]

3) My wife and I are used to very open communication. She tells me about most things when she is with him, and likewise, I tell her when something is on my mind. On the other side, he seems to be less communicative when it involves me. She's told me that on some occasions he has told her, "Don't tell him this."

It's common and healthy for each dyad to have its own privacy. Just because your wife (let's call her Daisy) is dating him (let's call him Jack), doesn't mean you get to know all his "secrets," that is, personal things he'd tell a lover, but not necessarily a friend, even a good friend. Everyone is allowed to have their boundaries. Of course, neither of them should be keeping anything sketchy they are currently doing from you.

4) Could it be that he only wants time alone with her, but nothing further?

Of course. This is what we call parallel polyamory, where, in a V, the hinge or anchor relates to the 2 arms of the V, but those 2 people, the metamours, do not have a close relationship. They should be polite in passing, but they don't hang out together, or as a threesome. In this case, you and Jack wouldn't even need go on your own platonic dates, so to speak. It all depends on the meshing of personalities, need for personal space, etc.

It sounds like Daisy wants kitchen table poly, eventually to the point of everyone living together, and you sound like you are, or think you should be, open to this. Daisy might be getting carried away with herself. Living together is today's version of getting married, and Jack still has ties to his wife and family, even if not close ones.

When he moves to your area, he should get his own apartment and date Daisy in a regular way, as she can, when she is free from her responsibilities. They can see how things go (maybe doing regular overnights at his place). Then, if after a year or two, they are still feeling compatible, they can take the next step up the relationship escalator. I would think it would take time to get your young daughters comfortable with the idea of Mom's bf moving into their home! Maybe a better step would be Daisy spending every other weekend at Jack's, for example, at least until the girls have left the nest. There's no rush.

Poly V hinges are allowed to wish both their lovers lived with them, but the legs of the V (and the kids, if any) might have very different needs or wishes.

 

[MeeraReed]

These are all separate things:

1) Whether Jack's job is transferred and he moves to your city.

2) Whether Jack decides to end his marriage.

3) Whether Jack and Daisy continue to date each other. (It sounds like they have only met each other in person maybe twice??)

4) Whether the three of you occasionally have an MFM sexual threesome for fun (and whether that would go well at all for everyone)

5) Whether there is a long-term goal of the three of you living together in the future. (Does Jack even want this? Do you even want this? This is not something Daisy should decide to do after one hot 3-day weekend!)

6) Whether you tell your adolescent daughters anything at all. (No need to do that right now, since all of the above is still up on the air.)

It sounds like you are happy that Daisy is poly and you are supportive of her having another relationship. That's good! But no need to rush into imagining a poly future where everyone all lives in one house. Most people don't want to do that!

Another question: does Jack want to date only Daisy exclusively, or is he poly himself, and he might want to date other partners of his own someday?

There are many possible relationship configurations in poly. For example, Jack could decide that he is happy living alone in your city, dating Daisy, and also continuing to visit his own wife and maintaining a long-distance marriage (whether platonic or not).

The fact that Jack's wife enjoys her alone time when he travels for work does not necessarily mean their marriage is loveless.

However, it sounds like Jack's wife does not know he is dating another woman. Anyway, that's kind of his business to resolve and to figure out what he wants. Let him have the space to do that without having to commit to living in an MFM triad with you and Daisy.

Slow your roll, is what I'm saying.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello der_bayer4,

Whatever you do, you must have mutual consent in order for it to be a moral action. You must consent, Daisy must consent, and Jack must consent before you can transition into an MFM-Vee.

Most poly relationships benefit from a shared calendar, in order to balance out the time needs that each person in the polycule has. It's not very spontaneous. Everything has to be planned out. With all the demands on you, Daisy, and I presume on Jack, you will surely need a calendar that all three of you can view and edit. You probably can't make all the time allotments exactly equal. You will need to take into account how much time each person needs.

Communication is a vital ingredient in most poly setups; however, that is not to say that you can't adapt to a setup with a weak link (Jack). Also there is such a thing as privacy. It's okay for him to want to keep certain things private between himself and her.

Poly can be divided into two types: Parallel Poly and Kitchen Table Poly. Kitchen Table Poly would be where everyone in the V hangs out together; Parallel Poly would be where the two legs of the V (i.e., you and Jack) have little or nothing to do with each other. Jack seems to want Parallel Poly. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with that, but you will have to decide whether it is something that can work for you.

Daisy wants to see Jack once a week at first. Then, I take it, she wants to increase that. This is the reason the three of you will need the shared calendar. You need to be able to negotiate a division of time that all three of you can live with.

Kids are usually fine about polyamory being part of their parents' lives -- as long as the kids' lives, wants, and interests are not disrupted by the polyamory. On the other hand, you will have to figure out whether the kids can tell their friends about it -- or whether you will ask your kids to keep it a secret. And that's a hard thing to ask of your kids.

Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.

 

[der_bayer4]

These are all separate things:

1) Whether Jack's job is transferred and he moves to your city.

2) Whether Jack decides to end his marriage.

3) Whether Jack and Daisy continue to date each other. (It sounds like they have only met each other in person maybe twice??)

4) Whether the three of you occasionally have an MFM sexual threesome for fun (and whether that would go well at all for everyone)

5) Whether there is a long-term goal of the three of you living together in the future. (Does Jack even want this? Do you even want this? This is not something Daisy should decide to do after one hot 3-day weekend!)

6) Whether you tell your adolescent daughters anything at all. (No need to do that right now, since all of the above is still up on the air.)

It sounds like you are happy that Daisy is poly and you are supportive of her having another relationship. That's good! But no need to rush into imagining a poly future where everyone all lives in one house. Most people don't want to do that!

Another question: does Jack want to date only Daisy exclusively, or is he poly himself, and he might want to date other partners of his own someday?

There are many possible relationship configurations in poly. For example, Jack could decide that he is happy living alone in your city, dating Daisy, and also continuing to visit his own wife and maintaining a long-distance marriage (whether platonic or not).

The fact that Jack's wife enjoys her alone time when he travels for work does not necessarily mean their marriage is loveless.

However, it sounds like Jack's wife does not know he is dating another woman. Anyway, that's kind of his business to resolve and to figure out what he wants. Let him have the space to do that without having to commit to living in an MFM triad with you and Daisy.

Slow your roll, is what I'm saying.

Hi MeeraReed,

Thanks for your insights. Yes, many things are up in the air.

Daisy has realised she is poly and I am supportive of this all the way. Jack wants to exclusively date her. This is why he will move closer now. In the past, he had a large (well, it depends on who you ask, I guess) sexual appetite, and has had others, but now he's made it clear he only wants Daisy.

 

[der_bayer4]

Hello der_bayer4,

Whatever you do, you must have mutual consent in order for it to be a moral action. You must consent, your wife must consent, and this other fellow must consent before you can transition into an MFM-Vee.

Most poly relationships need a shared calendar in order to balance out the time needs that each person in the polycule has. It's not very spontaneous, everything has to be planned out. With all the demands on you, your wife, and I presume on this other fellow, you will surely need a calendar that all three of you can view and edit. You probably can't make all the time allotments exactly equal, you will need to take into account how much time each person needs.

Communication is a vital ingredient in most poly setups; however that is not to say that you can't adapt to a setup with a weak link (this other fellow). Also there is such a thing as privacy, it is okay for him to want to keep certain things private between him and her.

Poly can be divided into two types: Parallel Poly and Kitchen Table Poly. Kitchen Table Poly would be where everyone in the V hangs out together; Parallel Poly would be where the two legs of the V (you and the other fellow) have little or nothing to do with each other. This other fellow seems to want Parallel Poly. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with that, but you will have to decide whether it is something that can work for you.

Your wife wants to see him once a week at first. Then, I take it she wants to increase that. This is the reason the three of you will need the shared calendar. You need to be able to negotiate a division of time that all three of you can live with.

Kids are usually fine about polyamory being part of their parents' lives -- as long as the kids' lives, wants, and interests are not disrupted by the polyamory. On the other hand, you will have to figure out whether the kids can tell their friends about it -- or whether you will ask your kids to keep it a secret. And that's a hard thing to ask of your kids.

Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.

Hello Kevin,

Thanks for your thoughts, as we are trying to figure things out together here.

For the kids, we have decided, for starters, not to tell them, but we think if it's more than one time a week, they will notice. We will have to think about that.

Also for me, in the past, it has been once a month, or a weekend once in a while. Now we are moving to a more regular MFM-Vee. This also means more changes for me. At the moment, I am always looking at it from a family transition or less/no interruption point of view. But once it's regular and in the same city, for my part, I cannot see how some of our friends will not figure this out quickly. So, for this part, we have talked over how to handle it. But no clear ideas yet.

You are right. So far both Daisy and I have agreed that a MFM-Vee is the best for us. Jack has not committed yet, and more or less, has said let's talk once his transfer to move here has been confirmed.

 

[Magdlyn]

Hey der_bayer,

Are E-- and H-- the nicknames you want to use for your wife and her bf? I can go back and edit things for consistency for the members. We don't recommend using real names, so I just wanted to check.

 

[der_bayer4]

Hi Magdlyn,

Thanks for the reminder. Using Jack and Daisy will be good.

 

[der_bayer4]

So far so good, but very little communication from the other male member of the possible Vee. What can we do to encourage more communication from his side. So far he usually says "we can talk more when I moved there", and he seems to resist any kind of possible discussions on boundaries or such things.

 

[Bobbi]

Jack wants to exclusively date her

If this is true, then that is why he’s not communicating with you. They are LD, so really don’t have a full relationship yet, even if feelings are present. He probably thinks this fantasy talk is too much, too soon, because it is!

This all seems fast, jumping the gun, as it were. He is a long distance away and she has seen him a handful of times. You are now talking about a magical poly V (kitchen table style), but he won’t talk to you and wants to be exclusive with her. It all sounds like you are living in fantasy land, when reality isn’t even close. You cannot plan for something he isn’t actively participating in.

I think it’s time to pull back the fantasy, slow way down and accept the relationship for what it actually is right now. Jack and Daisy are enjoying each other and having infrequent, great sexual experiences when they do get together (making an assumption, as Jack has no voice here). That’s it! Nothing more!

Daisy is loving it and maybe is having a fantasy of having you both as one happy family in the future, but that’s all it is! A fantasy! Right now it’s LD and although the fantasy of him moving to be close to her is fun, it isn’t reality until he actually does it. That is step one.

She needs to make it clear that she will never be exclusive to him before he does that. Any kind of placating and he might move there thinking something different. He needs to know and accept that this is a poly arrangement.

Then he moves there and you each learn what it is to really be working in a poly dynamic. She needs to learn to be a good hinge and you two need to learn how to be metas together. Do this for at least a year before deciding if you’ll live together or not.

I know when things are new and exciting it’s so very easy to paint a magical picture of a future fantasy that looks and feels so amazing, where everyone is happy, but that is rarely the reality. Any chance at success means you have to slow way down and grow over time. The faster a car goes the more likely it is to crash, especially with a new driver on winding roads.

 

[Magdlyn]

You, singular, do not have to do anything to encourage Jack to communicate. That's Daisy's role as a hinge.

If Jack is being vague, that doesn't look good for the future. I am not sure what needs to be discussed other than, he's not invited to move into your house if and when he moves. He might be like the poly version of one of those guys who keeps telling a mistress, "Yes, I'm getting divorced," but then never actually does divorce. It sounds like, from what you've written so far, it's possible he's just cheating on his wife.