The ending of my polycule

[Magdlyn]

I used to believe these exact things, but after this experience I am realizing how important trust and safety is in relationships. This person continually lied to me in order to continue a sexual relationship with me, because they knew if they asked to de-escalate I would take sex off the table. Personally, I would not want to be friends with someone who could treat someone that way. It makes me question how much I can trust my friends and partners when they continue to invalidate my experience with Jazz.

Jazz does not deny that they treated me without care or consideration. They just blame their behaviour on their depression and say that they weren't ready to be in a capital R, Relationship, but didn't know how to tell me yet.

A week before we ended things, I took two weeks of space with no contact and asked them to consider how they wanted to move forward in our relationship, whether that was de-escalation or to continue forward collaborating, saying that I was open to either one. When we came back together, they said that they wanted to continue forward and literally doubled down by telling me that they were in love with me and that they wanted us to live together. But a week later, they told me that everything they said to me were things that they would say to anyone, and that I was making something out of the relationship that it wasn't.

This is pretty concerning behavior for anyone, whether they're your friend or not. I personally would not want to be friends with someone who would treat me that way, or that would treat someone that I love and care about that way. I'm not saying that Shay has to not be friends with Jazz. I'm saying that if Shay does decide to be friends with Jazz, that means that Shay and I can no longer continue on in a romantic capacity and that my choice will be to deescalate to a friends-only situation, because I cannot trust Shay and their judgment. That also means that Shay and I do not share the same values, and that's okay.

I have absolutely been doing the things that I need to do to take care of myself. I am very lucky in that I have a very close network of friends outside of my romantic relationships, who support me and love me, and show me that every day.

To be honest, I can relate to your feelings about Shay wanting to remain friends with someone who hurt you badly. I went through a similar experience with a past dating partner. They ended up behaving in a disgusting and even dangerous manner to me after their NRE wore off. My nesting partner had been friends with this person, and she still liked him. I didn't want her to keep in touch with him. She had mixed feelings, since he hadn't treated her badly. She kept a little in touch with him for a few months. I asked not to hear about it. She eventually allowed herself to drift apart from him. And it was a relief to me. I guess I had to allow her to grieve the way things turned out, in her own way.

 

[lavendarboi]

To be honest, I can relate to your feelings about Shay wanting to remain friends with someone who hurt you badly. I went through a similar experience with a past dating partner. They ended up behaving in a disgusting and even dangerous manner to me after their NRE wore off. My nesting partner had been friends with this person, and she still liked him. I didn't want her to keep in touch with him. She had mixed feelings, since he hadn't treated her badly. She kept a little in touch with him for a few months. I asked not to hear about it. She eventually allowed herself to drift apart from him. And it was a relief to me. I guess I had to allow her to grieve the way things turned out, in her own way.

Shay had already broken things off with Jazz, but went back and started to talk to them a week later, and after hearing 'Jazz's side of the story,' decided that Jazz didn't mean to hurt me, even though Shay was there the whole 4 months of this relationship to see how it affected me, and despite what I said that Jazz literally said to me out of their own mouth.

I shouldn't have to prove what was done to me. Shay and Ester both keep telling me that I took what Jazz said the wrong way, but they don't have the context that I do. They think because Jazz wasn't doing it with malicious intent that it justifies staying in proximity to them. Ester even admitted that they have seen this happen with Jazz before, where they mess everything up, which means that Jazz isn't taking accountability and that Ester is aiding in this behaviour, in good faith that Jazz has never treated *them* that way, so it's okay. That, to me, is not ethical and does not align with my values.

 

[Bobbi]

I used to believe these exact things, but after this experience I am realizing how important trust and safety is in relationships. This person continually lied to me in order to continue a sexual relationship with me, because they knew if they asked to de-escalate I would take sex off the table. Personally, I would not want to be friends with someone who could treat someone that way. It makes me question how much I can trust my friends and partners when they continue to invalidate my experience with Jazz.

Jazz does not deny that they treated me without care or consideration. They just blame their behaviour on their depression and say that they weren't ready to be in a capital R, Relationship, but didn't know how to tell me yet.

A week before we ended things, I took two weeks of space with no contact and asked them to consider how they wanted to move forward in our relationship, whether that was de-escalation or to continue forward collaborating, saying that I was open to either one. When we came back together, they said that they wanted to continue forward and literally doubled down by telling me that they were in love with me and that they wanted us to live together. But a week later, they told me that everything they said to me were things that they would say to anyone, and that I was making something out of the relationship that it wasn't.

This is pretty concerning behavior for anyone, whether they're your friend or not. I personally would not want to be friends with someone who would treat me that way, or that would treat someone that I love and care about that way. I'm not saying that Shay has to not be friends with Jazz. I'm saying that if Shay does decide to be friends with Jazz, that means that Shay and I can no longer continue on in a romantic capacity and that my choice will be to deescalate to a friends-only situation, because I cannot trust Shay and their judgment. That also means that Shay and I do not share the same values, and that's okay.

I have absolutely been doing the things that I need to do to take care of myself. I am very lucky in that I have a very close network of friends outside of my romantic relationships, who support me and love me, and show me that every day.

It sounds like you had a very horrible experience, indeed. I'm sorry you had to experience that. I do agree that you have the right to de-escalate relationships/friendships with people that do not share your same value system and to remove yourself from being any part of the Jazz ecosystem. You do not need to justify your actions to anyone, nor do they have to justify theirs. You do you and let them do them, and if it's no longer a relationship fit for you, then move on without regret. The act of doing that should give you the closure you are seeking.

 

[Bobbi]

I shouldn't have to prove what was done to me

Nope, you shouldn't, and I'd argue that you shouldn't even try. It happened. That's it. Nobody has to believe you.

Shay and Ester both keep telling me that I took what Jazz said the wrong way

It doesn't matter the "way." You experienced it, they didn't. You have a right to say no more. Their opinions don't matter. You were there and your experience, whether real or imagined, was your experience, and only you get to decide how you will proceed. Your other partners/friends can choose to support you or not. If not, then you can choose not to be around them.

They think because Jazz wasn't doing it with malicious intent that it justifies staying in proximity to them.

Some people have looser boundaries than others, for example, some who have little experience with loving someone with an addiction may not just stick around, but they may stay until their entire world burns down around them. Others may never be around anyone who ever has a drink or even a Rx for legitimate pain. Some fall somewhere in between.

Your boundaries are stronger than theirs and you have a right to enforce yours, even if it makes them unhappy. They can learn their lesson the hard way. Amazingly, most people have to learn that way. That's okay.

Ester even admitted that they have seen this happen with Jazz before, where they mess everything up, which means that Jazz isn't taking accountability and that Ester is aiding in this behaviour, in good faith that Jazz has never treated *them* that way, so it's okay.

I agree on the poor ethics. I also see a "you get what you sow" event in her future. Someone cannot continue to see and stick around long enough and not get burned.

 

[lavendarboi]

It sounds like you had a very horrible experience, indeed. I'm sorry you had to experience that. I do agree that you have the right to de-escalate relationships/friendships with people that do not share your same value system and to remove yourself from being any part of the Jazz ecosystem. You do not need to justify your actions to anyone, nor do they have to justify theirs. You do you and let them do them, and if it's no longer a relationship fit for you, then move on without regret. The act of doing that should give you the closure you are seeking.

This is what I am hoping to achieve. Thank you for the feedback!

 

[lavendarboi]

Nope, you shouldn't, and I'd argue that you shouldn't even try. It happened. That's it. Nobody has to believe you.


It doesn't matter the "way." You experienced it; they didn't. You have a right to say no more. Their opinions don't matter. You were there and your experience, whether real or imagined, was your experience, and only you get to decide how you will proceed. Your other partners/friends can choose to support you or not. If not, then you can choose not to be around them.

Some people have looser boundaries than others, for example, some who have little experience with loving someone with an addiction may not just stick around, but they may stay until their entire world burns down around them. Others may never be around anyone who ever has a drink or even a Rx for legitimate pain. Some fall somewhere in between.

Your boundaries are stronger than theirs, and you have a right to enforce yours, even if it makes them unhappy. They can learn their lesson the hard way. Amazingly, most people have to learn that way. That's okay.

I agree on the poor ethics. I also see a "you get what you sow" event in her future. Someone cannot continue to see and stick around long enough and not get burned.

Unfortunately, this is something that I already knew about: Shay does not have strong boundaries. But I didn't realise it would affect me in this way. I know that Shay and Ester both will have to learn their own lessons, but I can't be around when it happens, because I need to move on. It will be a hard discussion to have with Shay, but hopefully they will not abandon the relationship and they will be amenable to de-escalating to QPLPs. The romance part has been affected significantly, as I don't feel emotionally safe with them anymore, but I love and care for them greatly. They are my best friend.

 

[Magdlyn]

QPLP- queer platonic life partnership

 

[GalaGirl]

I shouldn't have to prove what was done to me.

Correct. You could STOP and don't bother to JADE with Shay and Esther any more. (Justify, Argue, Defend, or Explain.) Jazz and the break up is no longer a topic of conversation with you.

Shay and Ester both keep telling me that I took what Jazz said the wrong way, but they don't have the context that I do. They think because Jazz wasn't doing it with malicious intent that it justifies staying in proximity to them.

That may be good enough TO THEM for Shay and Ester to remain pals with Jazz.

But you don't have to match their standards. Your personal standards can be higher than that. And you don't have to interact with Jazz any more.

Why are they both so hot on you and Jazz making nice and being "exes and friends" here? It can't just be ended and be plain exes that don't talk?

Ester even admitted that they have seen this happen with Jazz before, where they mess everything up, which means that Jazz isn't taking accountability and that Ester is aiding in this behaviour, in good faith that Jazz has never treated *them* that way, so it's okay. That, to me, is not ethical and does not align with my values.

So Jazz can hurt people and so long as they don't do it to Ester, Ester will turn a blind eye/make excuses/enable?

You could decide Ester and you don't have shared values and you stop talking to Ester.

I imagine the feelings are tough here. But the actions seems straightforward. The people you choose to hang out with are either people who you share values with, can admire, and can respect. Or they aren't. And you rethink whether or not you want to still hang out with Ester and Shay in light of how they are behaving here.

I know that Shay and Ester both will have to learn their own lessons, but I can't be around when it happens, because I need to move on. It will be a hard discussion to have with Shay, but hopefully they will not abandon the relationship and they will be amenable to de-escalating to QPLPs.

It sounds like you know what you need to do. You don't want to be around and want to move on.

But still want to stay with QPLP and best friends with Shay? That part sounds contradictory.

It could maybe work if Shay STOPS pushing you on Jazz things and will respect that you not longer talk about Jazz and the break up. But if Shay keeps pushing, and doesn't respect your personal boundary on that? And you have to keep doing JADE things and enforce your personal boundaries with Shay? Isn't that like Shay becomes the new draining person in your life?

Tread with caution.

Galagirl

 

[lavendarboi]

Correct. You could STOP and don't bother to JADE with Shay and Esther any more. (Justify, Argue, Defend, or Explain.) Jazz and the break up is no longer a topic of conversation with you.



That may be good enough TO THEM for Shay and Ester to remain pals with Jazz.

But you don't have to match their standards. Your personal standards can be higher than that. And you don't have to interact with Jazz any more.

Why are they both so hot on you and Jazz making nice and being "exes and friends" here? It can't just be ended and be plain exes that don't talk?


So Jazz can hurt people and so long as they don't do it to Ester, Ester will turn a blind eye/make excuses/enable?

You could decide Ester and you don't have shared values and you stop talking to Ester.

I imagine the feelings are tough here. But the actions seems straightforward. The people you choose to hang out with are either people who you share values with, can admire, and can respect. Or they aren't. And you rethink whether or not you want to still hang out with Ester and Shay in light of how they are behaving here.



It sounds like you know what you need to do. You don't want to be around and want to move on.

But still want to stay with QPLP and best friends with Shay? That part sounds contradictory.

It could maybe work if Shay STOPS pushing you on Jazz things and will respect that you not longer talk about Jazz and the break up. But if Shay keeps pushing, and doesn't respect your personal boundary on that? And you have to keep doing JADE things and enforce your personal boundaries with Shay? Isn't that like Shay becomes the new draining person in your life?

Tread with caution.

Galagirl

You are absolutely right about the contradiction which is why I've already told Ester that despite our talk and agreement to remain friends my thoughts on the circumstances are such that I believe our values do not align and that I wish them the best.