My committed partner expressed fears about me being with another lover. I don't know if I should discontinue seeing my lover.
- Thread starter diestel
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MoPoly
Active member
Both.
Nest or Lover have to decide for themselves what works for them and whether they want to be in a relationship with you, Hinge.
If one of them decides they don’t want poly, they may give you an ultimatum.
You then decide if you want to be in a relationship with them and observe the ultimatum - or you decide to end the relationship as you don’t accept the ultimatum.
You are not initiating a new situation. You were already with Lover when Nest came along. If Nest wants to change the situation he can but you can either accept his wishes or not.
It’s a difficult choice, I understand
Nest or Lover have to decide for themselves what works for them and whether they want to be in a relationship with you, Hinge.
If one of them decides they don’t want poly, they may give you an ultimatum.
You then decide if you want to be in a relationship with them and observe the ultimatum - or you decide to end the relationship as you don’t accept the ultimatum.
You are not initiating a new situation. You were already with Lover when Nest came along. If Nest wants to change the situation he can but you can either accept his wishes or not.
It’s a difficult choice, I understand
Wow this podcast was very helpful! Didn't know there is a word existing n a whole concept around it for thebsituation in which I'm part!!I'm sorry you struggle. I mean this kindly, ok? It may not be what you want to hear.
Let me repeat back what I understand in my own words to make sure I got it how you meant it. Without names I'm confused as to which is which.
Is that how it goes?
- You currently have two partners.
- Still see Lover. That relationship started 8 years ago as an actual DADT thing or cheating affair and he lied to you about the DADT. ( I cannot tell from the writing. No judgement, just trying to be concise).
- Lover wanted to keep the relationship secret from his wife and it was a burden to you.
- Ultimately Lover and his wife broke up.
- You also date Nest. That relationship is 3 years old. You live with this person now.
- Nest used to say he was ok with you dating Lover, but over time? Now Nest is not ok with you dating Lover.
- He does not like the DADT/Cheating whatever it was.
- He is ok with you poly dating other people, but he doesn't like that you continue with Lover.
- Is he worried you will do cheat-y things again with Lover? And this time Nest would be the one being kept in the dark?
You could suggest he work it out with a poly counselor. You cannot be his free therapist. You might be able to help with reasonable and rational requests, but he can't even say what the issue are much less make requests.
You could suggest he look for one
Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory
Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directorywww.polyfriendly.org
Not the only place, but its a start. You could also do couple counseling as well as individual counseling if that helps to get to the bottom of this. But because counseling is expensive, you could be brave and ask point blank.
" I want to ask you some things. I want you to listen and not say anything til I'm done with the list ok?
Lover and I started with murky circumstances. DADT or perhaps he told me it was DADT and it was really cheating on his side and I didn't know. I'm still really attached to him and don't want to break up even though he and his wife ended up divorced. Are you scared I'm not trustworthy? Are you scared I'm too attached to Lover? Are you scared I might start doing cheat-y things and this time it would be you kept in the dark like the old wife was? Are you scared I just go along with things and don't speak up for myself? And now that you date me, my decisions won't affect just me. But will leak over on to you too?"
So you wouldn't break up with him. But you are worried he's past his fear of losing you and might drop you if you keep seeing Lover?
Metas could be aware that the other exists. That is good enough. They don't have to interact or be pals or anything. You don't have to be the "go between." Stop doing that.
If they happen to bump into each other they could be basic polite like one does with the grocery store clerk or bank teller. They do not have to be friends. Just because they date the same person (you) doesn't mean they have anything else in common. Basic polite is good enough.
There is nothing wrong with parallel poly.
That is conversation you have with each of them separately in the two dyads.
(You + Nest)
(You + Lover)
You two talk about relationship stuff, their wishes, your wishes, what you two mean to each other, how they feel in this poly network.
And you as hinge do not leak stuff from one dyad over into the other dyad.
Then you think on it and if that is something you want to do? You plan a weekend together.
I invite you to reflect on those two statements.
Is your partner Nest becoming more healthy? Are you worried he's outgrowing you because you still want to put other people and their feelings ahead of your own?
It used to work when you two would "trade" but now if he's going to start putting his well being first rather than people pleasing... it rocks the boat and makes you scared he will walk away from this poly V?
Again, there is nothing wrong with parallel poly. They don't have to talk to each other.
If you want to have more than one relationship? You deal with more than one relationship. If you don't like doing that much work? Drop one or both.
I don't say that to be mean. I say it because you have to manage your time and energy. There is such thing as being poly saturated.
What is the "it" you want them to talk about? That Nest doesn't esp like Lover? Or approve of how you and Lover got together?
Are you oversharing? Leaking things from (you + Nest) over on to (you + Lover)? Or the other way around?
Did Lover even consent to you telling Nest all this stuff about Lover?
Did Nest consent in the other direction?
You seem to struggle with personal boundaries and being a good hinge. Maybe this helps?
334 - What Makes a Good Hinge Partner — Multiamory
Being a hinge partner can be tough sometimes. This episode focuses on some unique struggles that hinge partners may face, some common pitfalls, and what it takes to be a good hinge partner.www.multiamory.com
Galagirl
If all your relatives and friends are intertwined, I see why you wanted to hang out with Lover's wife. It's what you are used to.
But you do not have to hang out with her. Esp is it was stressing you out to do so. It's ok to skip that.
It it that simple. If a behavior stresses you out? STOP DOING IT.
"Partner, I can't do this DADT thing any more. I'm bowing out. If you and wife ever change that policy, look me up in future."
Again... if doing something stresses you out? STOP DOING IT.
"Ok, I respect that you don't want to let the DADT policy go. I also have to respect me and the fact that I don't like it. So I'm bowing out. If you and wife ever change that policy, look me up in future."
Galagirl
"Partner, I see/know you aren't happy participating in this poly V. It's been X months. We've talked and tried to work things out. I love you, and even if you are willing to hurt yourself? I'm not willing to hurt you like that or ignore your pain. So I'm breaking up."
I think that sometimes the last loving thing one does is to gently let go so suffering can STOP.
Galagirl
Oh man, it sounds so logical n easy... I'm imagining saying this to Nest... n while thinking through this I always come to the point that letting go will also lead to suffering... At least at the beginning this I know for sure if I tell this to Nest... As he lives with neurodiversity he has big fear of people leaving him... It is a very common dynamic in relationships that people with this type of neurodiversity experience breakups over and over again, because its too much for their partners... If I wouldn't brake up for me but for him and that's the way how I would show him that I don't ignore his pain and then bring him more pain with break up? I don't know if that's the way leading to less suffering in future... ?? Big question...
Is it manipulative or any bad thing, leading to stupid dynamics to talk deeply through this options with Nest?
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When do we know that we really tried all our best to work things through??
This makes totally sense, I will try to apply this more in my life, n also accept that it's ok to say n do that.
Jah basically I kind of implicitly did this when they got a child, for a short time I just stopped seeing Lover, but I didn't communicate, so and again I need to work on communicating ! Now I know the word for it what I could not put in words back then... DADT thing as a policy
Thank you for this insight...
I'm wondering when do I know what is the ultimatum... I mean there are many ways of expressing, how can I identify it? When Nest has difficulties in expressing... Could I just ask for it? For example something like. This: "Do you want to give me an ultimatum? You may give me an ultimatum, it's ok to do that, u don't need to suffer or pretend u liking staying in this constellation although u don't feel like!!"
It doesn't matter if it was your best or not. Because love alone is sometimes not enough, doing your best is sometimes not enough.
More realistic measure to me is time. If someone is suffering for X months?That is enough measure to STOP the suffering.
Everyone had their own limit of tolerance but I am suggesting YOU define yours.
As a hinge, you really are going to let a partner keep on suffering in a poly thing they don't really want for 6, 12, 18, 24, 36 mos? While you watch them suffer? How is that you doing kind or loving behavior towards them?
I know it can be hard to make the tough decisions but someone has to make them. Can't be all people left in this endless loop of suffering because nobody wants to take personal responsibility.
Yes. You just ask him.
"Nest, what is the limit of tolerance for you? Where is your deal breaker line?" But he doesn't know or has none? He is willing to go on and on and on just suffering?
It's on you to break up with him so his suffering comes to an end. Because YOUR dealbreaker line is "I won't contribute to someone else's endless suffering. If it's already been X months and they aren't actually ok in this poly V? I will end things so they can be free of it. I will not take them back even if I want them back or they beg not to break up."
Yes, there's still break up sadness to go. Probably moving to separate homes. And coming to agreements for how to be as exes with the friends and family you share. Things to sort out.
But after people heal from the break up sadness? They are free. No more suffering from being in a poly V that they don't really want or are not able to sustain.
If your goal is healthy relationships? You have to be willing to end/bow out of unhealthy ones/unhealthy things.
Galagirl
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I agree I should just continue seeing both Nest and Lover if I like it, but I live with Nest, we're sharing a room, sharing friends and family... The dynamics in with Nest are more complex than just me deciding to continue n Nest just deciding if he wanna stay in this or not I fear.
I need to at least ask Nest where is his limit of tolerance! And accept when he doesn't know, this I need to accept and I want to accept that. It was not always like this. I was like he needs to figure things out for himself, it's not my problem... But I need to accept reality n if he doesn't know and overstepping his own boundaries n taking this suffering as u said I don't wanna be the one in this with him n supporting his suffering.
Nest was suffering since 3 years I would say... Although he said it's ok for him he wanna see me happy.
I guess I could also stop Nests suffering if I break up with Lover... But Nest doesn't want me to suffer and knows I would like to continue meeting Lover, so dunno how Nest would take me braking up with Lover... When I brake up with Lover I need to talk with Nest with what all he would be fine in me doing with Lover. I think I'm fine with not sharing sex anymore with Lover, I stopped that two years (but not cause of stopping Nests suffering, but stopping mine) and I was doing okayish, although sex was great and I was missing it a lot. But I'm not ready to completely stop all contact, Lover became also a good friend. And maybe I will suffer from it long term... This I need to figure out... I wish maybe in 20 years we would start being lovers again, but wouldn't say this of course, I don't wanna keep Lover stalled but the wish is there. The wish will not change... If I can stop sharing sex with Lover for stopping my suffering I can also do it for stopping Nests suffering
Bobbi
Well-known member
Not for you, because you don't agree with that philosophy. You see it as dishonest because it is. Now you know in the future, or even now, you shouldn't be partners with someone who practices DADT. I suspect he won't change and this relationship is not compatible with your values.
Oh wow. This would feel extra horrible! Being with Lover and his wife, knowing you are screwing him and she is clueless. With your values I'm actually shocked you let him take you there. No wonder you feel especially bad about it. Just say no.
You feel this way because of your values. Let yourself feel it then let it go. It's in the past and you cannot change the past. It's okay to never know and it's okay to let it go about her. Just assume she was okay with it. You went on what her husband shared with you. That's on him.
You learned you DO NOT ever want to be in that position ever again and will only date people who are open and transparent with everyone. Hard way to learn it but now you know. Now you just need to strengthen your NO response and get comfortable saying it, meaning it, and sticking to it. It takes practice.
Start by saying no to strangers or immediate family when they ask for easy stuff they can do themselves. Move up to harder stuff like going out of your way to give them a ride. Once you get used to saying NO it does get a lot easier.
Let your partner know that you cannot do any part of DADT. In order for them to be in a relationship with you, you must know who he is dating and they must know about you and have consent.
Some people incist on at least a phone call with other partners to confirm this before the relationship becomes sexual. What you need to feel comfortable is up to you. If you don't get what you need then the relationship is over.
You can ignore it, but it's clear that if you do then YOU are causing yourself a lot of stress and pain. Only you can enforce your own boundaries. Nobody else can do it for you.
That was his boundary and he enforced it as he should. You respected it as you should. But if it bothered you that bad you had a right to enforce that you wont be in a relationship with this dynamic. "Lover, I respect your decision to have a DADT dynamic with wife, I thought I was okay with that but it seems I really am not okay with it. This relationship is not going to work for me. Goodbye."
each person decides for themselves if it works or not. If you choose to stay in it and one of your partners says no way then they can leave.
They can talk to you about it first and let you choose what you want to do. Once you decide then they get to decide what they do. Everyone has autonomy to decide what they do and do not wanting their relationships.
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Thanks Bobbi for emphasising on the values and giving those tips with the practicing saying no
Yes DADT doesn't work for me.
And again standing for my boundaries and dealing with the consequences of following them through. thats a huge task which I will face in future! I will ask Nest: "Do you imagine yourself happy, in a future where me and you will get Baby through invivo fertilisation, not sharing sex anymore but co-parenting the children together and me still sharing casually sex with Lover?"
How can I have conversation with partners that stay in dynamics in which they dont feel comfortable? Are there any suggestions what to say/ask/how to strat/what to not miss/what to not say? I notices those example sentence help a lot for me to make things clear and put all my feelings in words instead of circing around them n coming to the point n causing more confusion for me and the communiation partner.
I dont feel comfortable in directly as Galagirl suggested braking up to stop their suffering n to prevent that they overstep their boundaries. I appreaciate this move, and I also agree its necessary at some point but I did not reach that point! It also means taking responsibility for others and I have issues with falling in a parenting role in relation to me and Nest and also me being a women taking too much responsibility for men is doing its part in me hasitating braking up to stop their suffering.
Nest impulsive suggested me to tell Lover that Nest doesn't feel comfortable anymore with me sharing sex with Lover. N he also suggested impulsive that we all three sit together and talk about it. Nest is curious how would Lover react. But in podcast I heard that I as hinge I need to make my own decisions of course n not be the playball between both points. N I need to own those decisions.
I need to learn what belongs to me, what belongs to Lover what belongs to Nest, what belongs to me and Nest, and what belongs to Lover and me and what belongs to all of us.
Does somone has guidelines for how to do such an inventory?? Or can share experiences how something like this could look like?
(I have the feeling that somehow very implicitly I have a feeling for those things but I have no clue how to make them appear explicit Infront of me.)
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No, it means taking responsibility for YOUR own actions/inaction. And YOU not contributing to someone else's suffering or dragging something out. They can keep on suffering if they want to... but it won't be because of anything YOU are doing or allowing to happen in front of you any more.
I know not everyone is comfortable being direct. That said?
This is tough. If the person avoiding and refuses to talk, is stonewalling, if the person "falls to pieces" and gets emotional and then cannot talk, if the person gets defensive, if the person says they will do ANYTHING to avoid a break up, they are ok suffering and just want you to be happy, etc.?
I'm not sure you can actually have a productive conversation. You might want to talk. But their goal is to NOT talk.
There are some people who so fear being alone or so fear breaking up that they will put up with unhealthy things just to stay partnered.
You could try couple counseling. Or accept that those kinds of avoidant behaviors are not a sign of this being healthy and are not joyful or fun for YOU. So you do a trial separation or a break up.
It cannot become a one sided relationship where you do most of the work or most of the giving and the person just receives.
I think you could tell Nest "No, thanks. I won't be doing that."
If you stop sharing sex with Lover it's because you decided to.
As a hinge you DO need to make your own decisions and not ping pong back and forth between your two partners oversharing. Like you go "Nest, Lover said this" or "Lover, Nest said that."
This "curiousity" -- what does Nest want to do? Have a duel over you with Lover?
Your feelings for those things are probably right. Just that you are not used to having firm personal boundaries. You sound like you are used to doing things for everyone else rather than saying "No, thanks" and/or letting them do it for themselves.
- You are responsible for your stuff, your thoughts, your feelings, your behaviors and how they affect others.
- Nest is responsible for his stuff, his thoughts, his feelings, his behaviors and how they affect others.
- Lover is responsible for his stuff, his thoughts, his feelings, his behaviors and how they affect others.
- (You + Nest) are responsible for any shared stuff (ex: shared belongings), and shared agreements.
- (You + Lover) are responsible for any shared stuff (ex: shared belongings), and shared agreements.
- (You + Nest + Lover) are responsible for being basic polite to each other and not much else at this time. Like if you are on a date with one of them and happen to bump into the other one at the same restaurant. Basic polite is good enough. You don't have to hang out in a group, you don't have to share group sex. There is nothing wrong with parallel poly.
Could work on those issues and do LESS work. You do not have to parent a partner. You don't have to coddle or serve men. It's ok for each person to do their own stuff.
Not saying anyone here has a PD, but perhaps this article helps you understand what is your stuff and what is not.
Understand My Stuff/Your Stuff — Out of the FOG | Personality Disorders, Narcissism, NPD, BPD
My Stuff/Your Stuff - My Stuff/Your Stuff is a thought technique of reminding yourself to separate what is really your responsibility, your concern and under your control and what is a personality-disordered individual's responsibility, concern and under their control. When you become in
outofthefog.website
You might also look at the circle of control. Some things you can control. Some things you just can't or aren't your responsibility.
What’s within your control?
During a recent coaching session, we were talking about an event that they are currently going through and how this is affecting their life/ current mental health. This was not just simply about st…
emthepm.com
Maybe it helps you to draw one so you can see it. Things you control. And things you do NOT control.
Galagirl
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Bobbi
Well-known member
Polyamory and relationships involve having uncomfortable conversations, sometimes VERY uncomfortable conversations. You need to flex that skill by doing it, and surviving it, repeatedly. Over time, they get easier and easier.
Talk to your partner about having uncomfortable conversations. Set ground rules around them to try to make everyone feel safer, and work hard to honor those ground rules.
1. Always start by saying "This is a hard conversation for me." This lets the partner know you are scared and super vulnerable and these rules need to be followed.
2. Partner gives consent to having a hard conversation, if they feel like they can handle it. If not, you try again another time. If partner always puts it off, then you know it will never happen and you cannot build, resolve or talk about important things and should move on.
3. The listening partner should do just that. Listen. Do not respond until the other is done. Place extra effort on not being emotional, and understanding how hard it was for partner to share.
4. Listening partner should be listening to what the sharer needs without feeling attacked. If the needs aren't clear, then ask for clarification or say back in your own words what you think partner needs to see if you got it right.
5. Listening partner should save talking about their side until after they have resolved initiating partner's need.
6. Partners can give support during these conversations by actively listening, nodding and having a caring facial expression. No eye rolling or looking away. Holding hands or other affection can be very reassuring while talking.
7. Never assume you know what they are saying. If there's any chance you could be making an assumption, ask for clarification.
Bobbi
Well-known member
Lover does not need to know Nest's feelings about YOUR sex life. Those feelings are for Nest to work out. It's up to you to take into consideration Nest's feelings, and you decide if YOU want to stop having a sexual relationship with Lover or not.
There is no need for Nest and Lover to get together to fight about which of them has the right to make YOUR sexual decisions for YOU. This reeks of control. Like Nest wants to tell Lover that he can't have sex with you anymore, and to back off. Do you want to be owned by Nest and let him make these decisions for you?
Are you now seeing why this is bad? You have a relationship with Nest. You have a separate relationship with Lover. Neither should have a say in the other.
If they don't like the other relationship, they talk to YOU about it. You listen and give your answer. It's okay to say "No, I won't be stopping my relationship with Lover, and I don't want to stop my relationship with you, either. Both are important to me. If this doesn't work for you, then you are free to end things and move on."
If Nest is curious how Lover would react, ask him how he would react if Lover pressured you to break up with Nest?
It's not hard to figure out how harmful that is.