Polyamory? Or NRE addiction?

[pheonixaise]

Okay, so, I debated for a long time about writing on this forum and seeking help, but I have found myself in a jam I cannot seem to solve on my own.

My name is Dane. I'm in a somewhat poly relationship. When I met my fiancee, Liz, I was single and living a completely monogamous lifestyle. I never had any interest in poly whatsoever, and have a very apathetic view on sex, in particular.

Liz, however, was very sexual when I met her. She had been in several monogamous relationships, and had been fine in them (mild cheating aside), but reached the conclusion, thanks to one man, that she was naturally polyamorous. I will not argue this. She is the only person I've ever met who literally feels compersion in almost every situation she is faced with.

She also seems to form connections based on a single positive attribute of a person. She doesn't seem to need more than one good thing, be it physical attractiveness (though she has a very hard time without this), new ways of thinking, emotional receptiveness, or anything else one may take to be a broadly positive trait, in order to form a connection.

At this point, I must add that Liz seems to thrive on, and is almost addicted to NRE. Who wouldn't be, right? Once mutuality is established, it's like an emotional, sexual, and hormonal rollercoaster that is beyond contestation.

Here is the catch. I love this woman more than anything. I am naturally monogamous. I could spend my whole life with one woman and be very happy. I am hesitant to make new connections. I actually have trouble doing so, partly because it is difficult to find the diminishing percentage of women I would be interested in. 2% of the human population interests me, in general. About 50% of them are women. An even smaller, unquantifiable amount are women who would be willing to be poly.

I just don't feel the need to connect with anyone else. If I'm with another women, I literally have ALWAYS felt I would rather be doing this (whatever it may be) with Liz. If there is a connection I make, I view it as friendship, and feel almost no desire to take it further.

We have a 9-month old child together. That makes things complicated. For a while, she saw that her thriving on the NRE for others hurt me, and not through completely unfounded jealousy, but through errors in judgment on her part, breeches of established comfortability and understanding of boundaries. In my mind, there is another point to be made here, that evidence of such situations in every other poly relationship I have ever been privy to has been poisonous to the mental state and mutual enjoyment of the relationship as a whole. Through seeing the former, she decided that it would be best for the both of us if we focused on our relationship, and on our baby.

Added to this was the fact that after Liz had our baby, her libido (which could strangle three very active men and leave them crying for help-- ever heard the old Irish drinking song "The Widow"? Look it up, lol) dropped off the face of the planet, and even 9 months later, is still missing. I've received several pieces of advice on this, mostly polarized views, about how us being monogamous may be choking her libido, and a couple saying that the NRE may have just fizzled out, and that a baby will do that.

Now, all of these things taken into account-- my naturally monogamous nature, her naturally polyamorous nature, our baby, her libido, jealousy (in whatever way it manifests), and our life as a family, she recently told me that, to her, monogamy was like putting on a mask. She can never really be herself as long as she is thus.

Aside from the shattering connotations of this particular statement, chief among them, to a monogamous man, being the insecurity of the fact that, after sacrificing all of his freedoms to be with this woman, he is not enough for her, there is the fact that, after a heated discussion about the subject, in which we were trying to find a way to make it more comfortable and better for both of us, and despite our best efforts (and you're going to have to trust me that I did everything I possibly could to be A. honest about my feelings while being B. emotionally sensitive and supportive of her needs), we couldn't come up with anything that wouldn't be difficult for either me or her, she said, "Forget it. Let's just be monogamous!"

So here is my problem, and what I need help on. How can I
A. overcome my jealousy when it is actually founded on empirical evidence
B. believe Liz when she says that monogamy is the way she sees is best
C. not feel like I'm wearing the same mask if we are poly
D. find poly women who are interesting in a community where nobody wants to openly say they are poly
E. not let this affect our daughter?

My chief concern, of course, is E. I don't actually believe polyamory is wrong. I fully support gender-equality. I fully support development of different connections. I fully support the honesty that is completely necessary in a poly relationship. But I also fully support the definition of polyamory as it has been widely accepted: "with the knowledge and consent of everyone involved." I can't subject my daughter to the emotions I will feel while Liz is out with another man. Our daughter is very empathetic. When her mom is upset, she is upset. When I'm upset, she is also upset. So whenever I feel jealousy, founded or not, I cannot and will not let it affect this precious little girl.

Have I simply found myself at an impasse that will destroy our relationship, or is there some reasonable (and I can't stress this enough) not polarized viewpoint, or advice, that could help me overcome this issue?

Know that I am a Stoic-- all things in moderation. Therefore, I am not prone to the Epicurean viewpoints of "love conquers all," though I am convinced of its power and influence.

Excuse the length of this. I'm mildly freaking out.

 

[Tonberry]

Sadly, I don't have any good advice at this point. It sounds like you, as a family unit, cannot be happy mono or poly, and breaking it off doesn't seem like a good option, either!

One thing I don't get, though. If you're mono, why are you looking for other women? It seems to me you'd only be making things worse. You don't want to be with someone else. You'd only hurt yourself and any woman you date. You and Liz don't have to both be the same. You can be in a relationship where Liz is herself (polyamorous), and you are yourself (monogamous).

That doesn't solve the jealousy issues, but it's not something I have any idea how to help you with, sadly. Hopefully other members will do a better job of it.

 

[BlackUnicorn]

Here is the catch. I love this woman more than anything. I am naturally monogamous. I could spend my whole life with one woman and be very happy, and am not only hesitant to make new connections, but actually have trouble doing so.

Hi and welcome,

Am I reading this right? You have tried dating other women, and have found that it brings absolutely no enjoyment to you? Who made the decision for you to start trying to see other women?

For a while, she saw that her thriving on the NRE for others hurt me, and not through completely unfounded jealousy, but through errors in judgment on her part, breeches of established comfortability and understanding of boundaries.

NRE can be a bitch. Does her polyamorous style consist of constantly dating, with frequent sexual connections with a number of very different people? I can see how that is an especially bad match for a poly/mono relationship.

Added to this was the fact that after she had the baby, her libido, which could strangle three men and leave them crying, dropped off the face of the planet, and even 9 months later, is still missing. I've received several pieces of advice on this, mostly polarized views, about how us being monogamous may be choking her libido, and a couple saying that her NRE may have just fizzled out, and how a baby will do that.

What does Liz feel is the reason behind this? Does it bother her? If she weren't postpartum, I'd suggest reviewing the birth control you guys use, but that probably isn't it, in this case.

Aside from the shattering connotations of this particular statement, chief among them, to a monogamous man, being the insecurity of the fact that, after sacrificing all of his freedoms to be with this woman, he is not enough for her...

Ah, it's not about being enough. These are not give-and-take situations. There is nothing you are doing wrong or could be doing better. This is who Liz is.

So here is my problem, and what I need help on. How can I
A. overcome my jealousy when it is actually founded on empirical evidence?

Talk to her. She is an NRE junkie who forgets all about boundaries and agreements and just does whatever the heck she wants with whichever new partner strikes her fancy? That's not okay.

B. believe her when she says that monogamy is the way she sees is best?

You need to respect her enough to believe what she says is true. She might be actually saying this is what she wants to be the best thing. But that's on her, not on you.

C. not feel like I'm wearing the same mask if we are poly?

What was the single biggest disappointment you had when she was still dating? Boundary-breaking? Is there any possible poly future which you could see working for you, like a triad, a poly-fi V, a quad, what have you?

D. find poly women who are interesting in a community where nobody wants to openly say they are poly?

Are there no local poly groups in your area? What about internet dating? Most importantly, why do you want to pursue other relationships if you are convinced you are monogamous?

E. not let this affect our daughter?

Try to time Liz's date nights so that you have something meaningful to do, other than fret about it. Have somebody babysit your daughter.

Is the real problem her being polyamorous, or her being irresponsibly polyamorous, with a tendency to get lost in NRE?

 

[pheonixaise]

Thank you for the advice, guys.

BlackUnicorn, I found your advice at the least comforting, that someone isn't cramming some view of, "It's all on you, bro," down my throat, which is all I've been getting. As for why I'm still trying to date, I must admit I'm desperately clinging to the hope that I can find someone worth dating. It's not that I don't believe that I could feel something for someone else, now that the NRE in our own relationship seems to have faded, but I've explored several options, and it hasn't worked. However, if I can find a way to make it work, I would like to.

Here's the thing-- I honestly hope that I can find someone, because I have seen it work in other relationships. If I have someone to focus on when Liz is focusing on someone, even if mine is just one other person, while hers are varied, I will have a positive focus for what seems to be (currently) an incredibly negative situation.

Thank you for your posts, guys. They've been helpful, and if not, decidedly kind. I feel I'm, at least, not alone now in thinking my situation is one that I should legitimately be worried about.

 

[IndieSolo]

I have a very apathetic view on sex, in particular.

I'm curious. What does this mean, exactly?

We have a 9-month old child together, and that makes things complicated. For a while, she saw that her thriving on the NRE for others hurt me, and not through completely unfounded jealousy, but through errors in judgment on her part, breeches of established comfortability and understanding of boundaries... evidence of such situations in every other poly relationship I have ever been privy to has been poisonous to the mental state and mutual enjoyment of the relationship, as a whole. She decided that it would be best for both of us if we focused on our relationship and our baby.

That would seem prudent, considering that you both have not been successful in managing boundaries. It would seem better communication would help.

. . . my natural monogamy, her natural polyamory, the baby, her libido, the jealousy in whatever way it manifests, and our life as a family, she recently told me that, to her, monogamy was like putting on a mask. She can never really be herself as long as she is thus.

Hmm... I wonder if she's possibly experiencing post-partum depression.

I'm also wondering how her diminished libido relates to your apathy towards sex.

Aside from the shattering connotations of this particular statement . . .

I don't know why it is shattering, considering it's not totally out of the blue. You discussed polyamory and know it's something she desired, so it being "shattering" to you surprises me.

. . . to a monogamous man, being the insecurity of the fact that, after sacrificing all of his freedoms to be with this woman, he is not enough for her . . .

This is a frequent misunderstanding. Her needing to be polyamorous in her relationships does not mean you are "not enough." Everyone has a range of needs, and one person cannot fulfill them all for another. It is simply unreasonable and dangerous to think so. That is why monoamorous people also have friends and family to call on, and polyamorous people have additional lovers. I am sure you fulfill every need she has from you, but not every need she has.

I can't subject my daughter to the emotions I will feel while she is out with another man. Our daughter is very empathetic. When her mom is upset, she is upset. When I'm upset, she is also upset. So whenever I feel jealousy, founded or not, in poly, I cannot and will not let it affect this precious little girl.

Oh, geez, you cannot protect and insulate a child from every negative emotion out there. Children thrive when they are able to meet and deal with challenges. I'm not saying you should be insensitive to emotions she is faced with, but living a lie and denying your feelings, or trying to eradicate them without dealing with them, will do your daughter no good. Sometimes you can't be logical in dealing with life. It would be like keeping her "locked away" as if she were Rapunzel. She would become soft and spoiled and unable to face difficult things in life. The best example you can set is to be able to meet the challenges you face, experience your feelings, and handle them.

 

[redpepper]

I am interested to know what "it's all up to you" means from people you have talked to about this. What is all up to you?

Your baby is only nine months old. I didn't get horny again until my boy was three years old. Now he is seven and I have sex pretty much daily. If anything, my libido has increased. (Results may vary.)

NRE junkies are a difficult lot. I would wonder if there is more behind this than is evident. Has she looked into what is going on for her? Done some work on herself? Polyamory is not about dating man, after man, after man, usually, with consent from a more permanent partner. That is more of an open relationship. I don't know too much about that, actually. It isn't polyamory, to me, and I know quite a bit about that. IMO, there is something concerning about dating a whole bunch of guys with the intent to just have NRE with them. It seems unfair to them, somehow, and deceitful and disrespectful. Is she aware that she does this? Is there some kind of goal here?

If I were you, I would set up a schedule whereby she goes out, say, one or two nights a week, and you go out once or twice, and then the two of you go out together once or twice. The rest is family time. Of course, numbers may vary, but the idea is that there is a consistent routine to follow.

It should be easy, if you have a baby, to adjust to this, as babies are all about routine. In this way you can do what you want to do in life, and so can Liz. She chooses to go on dates, and you may choose to join a bowling league or something. It's up to you. The point is to not sit around at home thinking about this and to get about the business of having an active life.

My husband PN decided to better himself, and he has. I have been with my boyfriend Mono for two years, and now he lives with us. The best thing that PN did for himself, and all of us, was to go and figure out what he wants out of life, rather than believing he had to be with me, or waiting for me, all the time.

We raise our boy to be independent, also. He thinks independently. We have taught him to talk for himself about his needs. He is a strong independent thinker. He knows what he wants (of course, his age is a part of that, too.) Good lesson for a kid, I think, better than the one he was being taught, which is that men should stay at home and mope while their partners are out living life. He is learning something very valuable in our poly family... belonging, yet being independent.

Please don't find a girlfriend. Bringing some unsuspecting person into a relationship that isn't functioning well is unfair and cruel. She may fall for you and then have to deal with all the issues you come with. I suggest sorting it all out first, and then, if you are interested, finding another love. It could just be that once you have figured this out, you are single, or so much on your game with your partner that it is not necessary to work it all out. If you are, in fact, mono, that is.

I would suggest doing a tag search on here for "lessons" and "foundations." There are excellent threads under those tags for people that are new to all this and struggling to figure out their groove. Lots of advice from seasoned veterans... or people that have their shit together more than others.

 

[pheonixaise]

I am interested to know what "it's all up to you" means...

It means that this is who she is at her core, and no matter how unfair it is (because we all know it's easier for a woman to find a date than a man on a generalized basis, especially when the woman is, by all accounts, a remarkably attractive woman), and how wrong it may seem to me, no matter how much it hurts, I need to be ok with her doing these things, because she's polyamorous. However, I'm monogamous. That has to count for something. Being poly for me is as difficult as being monogamous is for her.

Your baby is nine months old. I didn't get horny again until my boy was three years old. Now he is seven and I have sex pretty much daily. If anything, my libido has increased.

I understand. But she is horny again-- for other men. She isn't spending much of that energy on me. I say "much," because we've had sex about four times in nine months. And when she does, it's an appeasement so she can go out with someone else.

NRE junkies are a difficult lot. Has she looked into what is going on for her? Done some work on herself? Poly is not about dating man after man after man, usually. That is more of an open relationship. It isn't poly, to me. There is something concerning about dating a whole bunch of guys with the intent to just have NRE with them. It seems unfair to them somehow. Deceitful and disrespectful. Is she aware that she does this? Or is there some kind of goal here?

It's not like she goes in with the intention of leaving just as quickly. She goes in, has her fun, the phenethyleomines (sp?) wear off, and she realizes they are a drunk, or they don't respect her, or they think she's a piece of meat, or they're dumb as a brick, or they think she's property. It's not like she goes in just for the NRE knowingly. She really thinks she's going to make a connection. Of all the things she is, deceitful isn't one of them. Disrespectful, on the other hand, maybe. She is a kind and caring person, who honestly wants others to be happy.

If I were you, I would set up a schedule whereby she goes out one night or two out of the week, and you go out one night or two of the week and then the two of you go out together one or two nights of the week. The rest is family time... of course numbers may vary, but the idea is that there is a consistent routine to follow.

It should be easy if you have a baby to adjust to this as babies are all about routine. In this way you can do what you want to do in life and so can she. She chooses to go on dates, and you may choose to join a bowling league or something. It's up to you. The point is to not sit around at home thinking about this and to get about the business of having an active life.

Well, that poses a problem. I work nearly full time, and go to school full time. I also have a child. I don't have that free time. Liz, however, is a stay-at-home mom, and has all the free time she can ask for. A schedule is almost null and void. I'm afraid I'm just not willing to provide for someone who is only there five nights a week when I get home, and then I have to watch the baby on my own, after a 12-hour day the other two nights.

My husband PN decided to better himself, and he has... I have been with my boyfriend Mono for two years, and he now lives with us. The best thing that my husband did for himself and all of us, was to go and figure out what he wants out of life, rather than believing he had to be with me all the time, or waiting for me all the time. We raise our boy to be independent, also. He thinks independently. We have taught him to talk for himself about his needs. Good lesson for a kid, I think, better than the one he was being taught, which is that men should stay at home and mope while their partners are out living life.

Right. Now here is where my polarized-view statement comes into play. I'm afraid I don't quite subscribe to the "bettering" statement. Your husband may be an exception to the data I have collected, but rarely do I see a matriarchal poly family where the husband isn't secretly wishing it wasn't necessary.

Also, I fully understand finding out what I want out of life. I've already done so. I want as little drama as possible. I want to live a life where I can play music, come home to my family after a hard day's work, play with my kids, and not have to worry about other people's drama.

However, with poly comes complications in this regard. Every time she meets a new guy, whoosh, it's like a whirlwind. It's all she wants to talk about. And guess who is there to pick up the pieces when it fails? Me. I'm the one who tells her, "You know, this guy talks quite crassly about you behind your back," or "He doesn't let you speak. I have to tell him you have something to say before he wipes the 'quiet, the adults are speaking' look off his face." And then, when it all comes crashing down, I'm the one who holds her up.

Please don't find a girlfriend. Bringing some unsuspecting person into a relationship that isn't functioning well is unfair and cruel. She may fall for you and then have to deal with all the issues that you come along with. I suggest sorting it all out first and then, if you are interested, find another love. It could just be that once you have figured this out, you are single, or so much on your game with your partner that it is not necessary to work it all out. If you are, in fact, mono.

This is fairly decent advice. However, what is the point of being poly if it is just to have your partner do things that hurt you, with no benefit to yourself? There would be literally no benefit to me if I didn't date, as well. The small chance I could find a girlfriend is the only thing that keeps me optimistic about the whole situation. If I'm supposed to figure this out before I find a girlfriend, then it almost seems a parasitic lifestyle.

I must say this. Excuse me if that seemed rude. I promise I meant no disrespect. I'm just a little touchy on some subjects, especially that particular one.

 

[pheonixaise]

Curious - what does this mean, exactly?

This means that I have had 12 sexual partners in my life. With 11 of them, I was never sexually gratified. I don't feel sex as a need. I enjoy it with Liz, the only person I've ever enjoyed it with. She was the first person to show me that sex can be enjoyable. I don't masturbate, not because I believe it's wrong. I'm all for it. It promotes good health, better concentration in school, better mood, all positives. I just don't feel the need to myself, so I don't.

That would seem prudent, considering that you both have not been successful in managing boundaries. Better communication would help.

Better communication is an umbrella term, I feel. Yes, if you communicate better, problems will be resolved quicker. Simply saying "communicate better" doesn't help anything. It simply seems to me a catch-all that will help you. But the same goes for every problem dealing with interaction between two humans.

I wonder if she's possibly experiencing post-partum depression.

She did go through some severe post-partum, poor thing. We're working on that quite hard. We've taken to hobbies that she used to absolutely love before the baby, but hasn't had time since, such as painting, camping, SCA, chainmail, and other such activities. It is helping.

Also wondering how her diminished libido relates to your apathy toward sex.

As I said, I don't feel it as a need. It still bothers me when she talks about, and pursues other men in that regard, and doesn't spend what little libido she has on me. Ever heard Sublime's Summertime? First verse. I don't dislike sex, especially not with her, and I'm very patient. But we are the "married" couple, and from everything I've ever read on this subject, it is her responsibility to make sure her primary partner's needs are met before spending such energy on other partners.

Apathy might be the wrong word. Patient indifference might be a better way to put it. I don't pursue it actively, but I still want it.

I don't know why it's shattering, considering it's not totally out of the blue. You discussed polyamory and know it's something she desired.

Well, that's interesting. She told me, when she got pregnant, that she had had too many negative experiences in poly, and that when the chips were down, I was the only one who stood up and helped. She told me she wanted to be monogamous, and that we would discuss rare and infrequent temptations on her part.

The shattering portion comes from this poly lifestyle being thrown back at me full force, and shattering the fragile window that separates the two completely. How could I ever be monogamous now with her, even if it is "what she wanted," without feeling like she's lying to me? How can I be poly with her when it hurts me? Things were good in monogamy. She never cheated on me. She occasionally met someone, we talked about it, and sometimes even determined it was a temptation worth exploring. However, now that stability is gone, and, to my mind, can never return.

This is a frequent misunderstanding. Her needing to be polyamorous in her relationships does not mean you are "not enough." Everyone has a range of needs and one person cannot fulfill them all for another. It is simply unreasonable and dangerous to think so. That is why mono people also have friends and family to call on, and poly people have additional lovers. I am sure you fulfill every need she has from you, but not every need she has.

Sure. She needs a place to stay, someone to help raise our child, a shoulder to cry on. I know I fulfill those needs adequately. No "vacation boyfriend" needs to do such things. I know I can never be more than one person, and that alone is enough to know that I am not enough. However, it doesn't matter terribly whether my feeling of not being enough are founded on reason or insecurity. It exists, and reason, exploration, or reassurance can never remove it, only smother it until it is a nagging whisper in the back of your head.

As for lovers and friends, that's right. I don't need someone to be a lover to develop a connection with them. If I seek a new connection, I make a friend. I understand that's not how her mind works, though.

You cannot protect and insulate a child from every negative emotion out there. Children thrive when they are able to meet and deal with challenges; living a lie and denying your feelings or trying to eradicate them without dealing with them will do your daughter no good. Sometimes you can't be logical in dealing with life. It would be like keeping her "locked away" as if she were Rapunzel. The best example you can set is to be able to meet the challenges you face, experience your feelings, and handle them.

Hmm. Interesting perspective. I must admit, I've been down the same road of thought a hundred times. She will know challenges. She will know discipline. She will know independence. She will not, however, know or be subjected to problems that are between her mother and father. Problems of her own, I have no doubt she will have enough of, and we will address them as they come, and provide her with the tools and experience to handle each.

As for protecting and insulating my daughter, I will protect her from every unpleasant or harmful emotion I can, especially ones of anger towards situational events that will be perceived as against people we both care about.

As for living a lie, if I'm monogamous, what am I doing if I'm being poly?

 

[BlackUnicorn]

She is horny again-- for other men. She isn't spending much of that energy on me. And when she does, it's an appeasement so she can go out with someone else.

Who initiates sex, or used to, when sex was still happening? Do you think there might be some gender role anxiety going on here? Women are socialized into thinking that they can measure their value as feminine women through men showing sexual interest in them. If you have a great disparity in your interest in sex, she might be looking for that specific validation with other guys.

It's not like she goes in with the intention of leaving just as quickly. She goes in, has her fun, the phenethyleomines (sp?) wear off, and she realizes they are a drunk, or they don't respect her, or they think she's a piece of meat, or they're dumb as a brick, or they think she's property. It's not like she goes in just for the NRE knowingly. She really thinks she's going to make a connection.

Encourage Liz to get on this forum. It sounds like she is making the same mistakes over and over again, and can't quite put her finger on why she isn't succeeding. Does she have self-esteem issues, issues with feeling attractive, especially after the baby, or what?

I work nearly full time, and go to school full time. I also have a child. I don't have that free time. Liz is a stay at home mom and has all the free time she can ask for. I'm just not willing to provide for someone who is only there 5 nights a week when I get home, and then I have to watch the baby on my own, after a 12 hour day the other two nights.

Your husband may be an exception to the data I have collected, but rarely do I see a matriarchal poly family where the husband isn't secretly wishing it wasn't necessary. Also, I fully understand finding out what I want out of life-- as little drama as possible. I want to live a life where I can play music, come home to my family after a hard day's work, play with my kids, and not have to worry about other people's drama.

By 'matriarchal' poly family, do you mean a mono/poly situation where the man is mono and the woman poly? It seems that the two of you are playing out gender roles that don't really fit. You're the provider. She's the stay at home mum. You're the strong and silent man who talks through his music. She's the life of the party who makes men wish they were you.

I'm just throwing out suggestions here, but I've found that the most unconventional couples can fall into highly dissatisfying traditional gender-role-playing when a child comes along.

Is Liz actively dating now? Frankly, if you want to save your relationship, I think that needs to stop now. She is as miserable as you are. Focus on building a strong foundation with her, reconnecting sexually, and figuring out what is causing all the drama you so despise. Deep down, why is she having sex with all the wrong kinds of men?

However, what is the point of being poly if it is just to have your partner do things that hurt you, with no benefit to yourself? There would be literally no benefit to me if I don't date as well. The small chance I could find a girlfriend is the only thing that keeps me optimistic about the whole situation. If I'm supposed to figure this out before I find a girlfriend, then it almost seems a parasitic lifestyle.

I get your point, but right now, are you looking for a gf from a place of anger, resentment and desire to get even with Liz, or from a serious desire and readiness to open your heart for more love in your life?

Once you and Liz have your things sorted out, she has made it through her depression, and you have worked over the anger you have, start looking for a steady bf, aka a secondary, for Liz, from the local poly community, or through internet dating, or whatever. Redpepper posted on another thread one woman's 'dating ad' for her husband. My advice? Clean the slate now from additional distractions. Stop the dating, both of you, until you know what it is you both really want.

 

[IndieSolo]

Yeah, I agree that it would be helpful if Liz came here and posted her side of the story. You have a good deal of anger going on, and she is being painted as somewhat of a sexual compulsive, and rather inconsiderate of you. I'm not saying that is or isn't true, but it is only your perspective.

You two have choices in front of you. Above everything, your daughter comes first. After that, you may want to examine whether or not you want to stay in this relationship at all.

 

[pheonixaise]

I agreed, there is certainly an amount of anger here.

We talked with each other about it last night, and come up with a rather decent compromise, I believe. Basically, we have decided that Liz's need for sexual expression and NRE may be focused, day-to-day, through other means, namely, through the fostering of animals and through a home daycare. It turns out, she feels that making those new connections and having something to focus on may be all she needs.

However, on vacations to places such as Beltane, Pennsic, and other such camping trips, where new sex partners are readily available and accepted by all involved, such adventures would not affect the stability of my life, nor will it leave her with no outlet for her free nature.

This compromise is a wonderful breakthrough, in my opinion, because it eliminates most of the anxiety I feel about having to deal with emotional crises on a somewhat daily basis. I over-analyze things. I realize that. I do have a lot of (albeit justified) vehement anger involved through the pains I have suffered. Throughout our relationship, I've done such things as driven her 45 miles to see a boyfriend, and sat on the front porch while she had sex with him.

Wonderful news! A lot of your suggestions have helped us come to this conclusion, guys. I also wanted to say that I never meant to depict her as, in any way, a cruel or a bad person. She is, with the exception of my daughter, the most wonderful person I've ever met!

 

[SNeacail]

Basically, we have decided that her need for sexual expression and NRE may be found through other means. Namely, through the fostering of animals and through a home daycare.

If Liz is a stay-at-home mom, she is probably in desperate need of regular ADULT contact. I don't quite understand how giving her more children and pets to care for will do anything but make the need for adult contact away from kids worse. You mentioned that she, as a SAHM, has all the "free time" she can get. I'm sorry, this was so rude and disrespectful to all SAHMs who WORK THEIR ASSES OFF, not only the 12 hours their partners are at work, but all the way through bedtime, and during the night, as well. It sounds like you have no respect for her contribution to your household. I find it really sad that you aren't willing to watch the kid, or hire a sitter a few nights a week, so she can get some outside adult contact (even if it's just going bowling or such with a group of friends).

 

[pheonixaise]

If she is a SAHM she is probably in desperate need of regular ADULT contact. I don't quite understand how giving her more children to take care of and pets will do anything but make the need for adult contact away from kids worse. You mentioned that she, as a SAHM, has all the "free time" she can get. This was so rude and disrespectful to all SAHMs who WORK THEIR ASSES OFF, not only the 12 hours their partners are at work, but all the way through bedtime, and during the night, as well. It sounds like you have no respect for her contribution to your household. I find it really sad that you aren't willing to watch the kid, or hire a sitter a few nights a week,so she can get some outside adult contact.

Oh, my goodness, you're right! That was terrible phrasing on my part. Please forgive me.

She works incredibly hard at taking care of the baby. I offer to do that all the time. She goes out and has regular adult contact with friends of hers consistently.

I'm really sorry about that. I honestly meant no offense. I fully support the contribution she makes to the household, and anything I said otherwise was incredibly poor phrasing on my part.

However, I must add that she is in fact able to go out with the baby whenever she would like, spends plenty of time with other parents and friends, and also goes to her own social gatherings. It is by her choice that she takes the baby with her on most of these ventures, due to our agreed (her suggested) attachment parenting style. Previously, it was entirely her choice to take the baby on dates, and to the homes of her boyfriends. She wanted them to know that she was a parent, and that that came first. She would only engage in physical activity once the baby fell asleep.

I am really very sorry for the misunderstanding. That was terrible of me. I need to be more careful of my phrasing. It's no excuse, but I have Asperger's, and so sometimes I can be crass without meaning to be so. That was just awful of me. Please forgive me.

 

[IndieSolo]

I work nearly full time, and go to school full time. I also have a child. I don't have that free time. Liz, however, is a stay at home mom, and has all the free time she can ask for. A schedule is almost null and void. I'm afraid I'm just not willing to provide for someone who is only there 5 nights a week when I get home, and then I have to watch the baby on my own, after a 12 hour day the other two nights.

So, you require her to be there seven nights a week, is that it? After a full day's work as a homemaker and mother? Bit of a dictatorship, no?

Yes, I too found this part of your complaint unreasonable, and also wonder if fostering animals and fucking around at Pennsic will really help her. Why not a committed secondary bf for her, who also cares about her as much as you do, instead of an "outlet" of random sex with whomever she meets at an event? Wouldn't that be a more loving thing for you to be okay with? Wouldn't it be best for your daughter if you both had such stability?

 

[pheonixaise]

You require her to be there seven nights a week, after a full day's work as a homemaker and mother? Bit of a dictatorship, no?

I found this part of your complaint unreasonable, and also wonder if fostering animals and fucking around at Pennsic will really help her. Why not a committed secondary bf for her, who also cares about her as much as you do, instead of an "outlet" of random sex with whomever she meets at an event? Wouldn't that be a more loving thing for you to be okay with? Wouldn't it be best for your daughter if you both had such stability?

Okay, to answer the first part of your question, no, it is not a dictatorship. She decided to be a homemaker, and we share that responsibility as best we can. My schedule is full to the brim, as I go to school during the day, and work until 5 a.m. in the morning at nights to pay our bills. The two days off I get a week, are in fact, times I want to spend with my wife. I do not force her to do so.

Fostering animals will help her express her NRE by allowing her to connect in different ways with different things. She thrives on the connection, something to dote on. She has told me that it has helped before, that getting a new animal has given her the same satisfaction of novelty without the inherent negatives that bother me in poly.

As for the "fucking" at Pennsic, her idea entirely. She feels that by getting the emotional connection she needs through animals and other new connections, she can express her physical needs for novelty through, as she called them "Casual flings in an environment where it is understood." She reached this conclusion because, and again, her words not mine, she knows now that her exploration of other relationships, whether I accept it or not, will always be difficult for me. And just as I cannot, in good conscience, keep her from being what she naturally is (poly) she cannot, without feeling an immense guilt that would ruin the NRE she was receiving, have other relationships in our day-to-day lives. She said that she was afraid of overstepping those boundaries one too many times, and that she wasn't willing to risk our marriage, and wanted to find other outlets.

I find this completely A. logical, and B. reasonable.

Also, homemaker she is not. Mother she is. I am the cook 7 days a week. I cook her meals and freeze them. Our roommate does most of the cleaning, as well. Currently, her only real contribution is, in fact, being a mother. And to me, that's the biggest contribution any of us could ever make. I know I couldn't breastfeed our baby 8 times a day. I believe there are 4 kinds of mothers out there. Women who are bad mothers. Women who are good mothers. Women who are great mothers. And last but not least, women who were born to be mothers. My fiancee is one of the last group. She is without a doubt the most caring, attentive, and emotionally intelligent mothers I have ever seen. I might be biased here, but no one will ever convince me of that.

 

[BlackUnicorn]

It sounds like what you said it was: a good, if perhaps somewhat temporary, compromise. I'm happy to read that the somewhat wounding, for you both, compulsive (?) dating has been put on hold for now.

Maybe your wife is more equipped and happy with being non-monogamous, not necessarily polyAMORous.

 

[redpepper]

I haven't read everything here. It's sometimes hard for me to catch up. I will only reply to my thread.

I sense a sort of stubbornness to find ways to make this work. There is no room to budge on anything, it seems. I feel for you and your situation, but it isn't going to change until your attitude changes and you start seeing things in terms of abundance instead of scarcity. There are threads on that if you are interested. A tag search will bring them up.

I can empathize with her. I had a baby once. I dated, and was aboveboard, and found most men to be exactly what she is finding. Anyone on here who is dating now would likely say the same.

I still stand by my first post, so I suggest you read it when you are able to read it with a different attitude. Maybe that will help.

 

[Tonberry]

What is the point of being poly if it is just to have your partner do things that hurt you, with no benefit to yourself?

But if you're monoamorous, then being polyamorous is NOT a benefit to you. It might make things worse for you. In any case won't help, and would hurt another woman. Right now, I'm wondering if you're not trying to get some revenge or something, a kind of, "You're hurting me! Well, I'll do the same thing. See how you like it!" except it probably won't hurt her the way it hurts you, since she's not mono.

I've heard of plenty of mono/poly relationships, but I haven't heard of a mono being poly because he's with a poly. It sounds like a recipe for disaster, really.

You think there are no benefits to you staying with her? She's made up her mind. She's poly and is going to live it, so that's really your choice: either you stay, or you go. There are advantages to your staying, e.g., being with a woman you love; being with your baby.

There could be advantages to her being poly:
- You don't have to carry the financial burden on your own (provided she finds another stable relationship, I guess).
- Help with caring for your child. Just like you can care for the child while she's out on a date with her boyfriend, her boyfriend can care for the child while she's out on a date with you.
- You could see her happy instead of miserable.

If none of these make up for the sacrifices you feel you have to make, then by all means, don't stay. But please don't drag someone else into this just because you want as big a piece of cake as your wife, even though you don't even like cake.

 

[pheonixaise]

But if you're mono, then being poly is NOT a benefit to you. It might make things worse for you, in any case won't help, and would hurt another woman. Right now I'm wondering if you're not trying to get some revenge or some thing. A kind of "you're hurting me? Well I'll do the same thing, see how you like it!". Except it's probable it won't hurt her the way it hurts you since she's not mono.

I've heard of plenty of mono/poly relationships, but I haven't heard of a mono being poly because he's with a poly.

Okay, I'm getting mildly tired of saying this. I WON'T, I repeat, WON'T get into a relationship until I find someone that I feel a real connection with. That means that I won't date until I actually FIND that connection. I'm not going to do something like jump into a relationship out of spite. I have too much respect for the other person.

I've had the opportunity. Believe me. However, I have always said no because I either don't feel a connection, don't find them interesting, or don't find them physically attractive. Without all three of those, I won't enter into a relationship. Imagine, if I were to date someone I found attractive physically and emotionally, but couldn't have a conversation with. How would I tell them that? What about someone physically and mentally attractive? How would I tell them that I wasn't feeling a connection? And last but not least, what if they were emotionally and mentally attractive, but not physically attractive? I certainly wouldn't be the one to say when they want to take our relationship to a physical level, "No, I don't want to because..."

I simply will not be that person, never have been that person, and never will. But I'm also not going to be monogamous while she is poly. It would break my brain in ways I can't really describe. However, I make this promise now, I will not date someone until our relationship is better, and I won't date someone until I feel a REAL connection.

 

[pheonixaise]

I sense a sort of stubbornness to find ways to make this work. There is no room to budge on anything. It isn't going to change until your attitude changes and you start seeing things in terms of abundance, instead of scarcity.

I can empathize with her. I had a baby once. I dated and was aboveboard and found most men to be exactly what she is finding. Anyone on here who is dating now would likely say the same.

I still stand by my first post, so I suggest you read it when you are able to read it with a different attitude. Maybe that will help.

These are the exact kinds of polarized views I wasn't looking for. I read your post, and I must say that this is a philosophy. A philosophy is as sound as the people who follow it, and as varied as the names of the people involved. I'm sorry, but I don't believe in abundance, because there are 24 hours in a day, and no one can change that. Scarcity is a fact of life. We are not immortal, and have a set amount of time on this planet. I will admit, that requires a certain level of freedom of choice, but I am not unwilling to budge on anything. What I'm unwilling to do is silently suffer.

I've walked in on Liz in bed with my best friend, the man who was going to be the best man at my wedding, with no prior notice. I have had her fight with me about how I swept the floor before going out on a date, leaving me to seethe at the thought of playing out oh so many of my favorite songs. I've had her cut a man's name who broke up with her into her arm directly after we had sex, and cry the rest of the night. I'm bitter, yes. Because I have actually been hurt. And I am not a masochist.

However, I would like to say this now, unless you're not going to approach this with a "Change your attitude, you inconsiderate bastard" approach, please don't post here. I told you I compromised, and I realize that most people here are of her philosophy, so I don't expect supporters of monogamy, but at least be considerate of the fact that I think differently, and am legitimately trying to change.

But also know that it isn't easy.