Cheating vs. Polyamory: Merged Threads, General Discussion

[redpepper]

I am so blunt in this because I had an affair that lasted for a year and a half, actively. As stupid as this sounds, I was concerned about the other man. I still regret hurting him, even though he never knew it happened That is a lesson I will never forget because the disappointment in myself rides the surface of my skin daily.

You are forgiven, love, because you are choosing to use the knowledge you have gained to help others. People benefit because you are speaking from experience. You have chosen an honorable path now and are healing the wound you helped to cause by sharing, growing and learning from your mistakes. that is all I ask and all I expect.

If the woman/women you cheated with could also learn from it, I would be completely satisfied! You don't know how hard it is for me to sit back and not just waltz right on over there and tell them what it has done to your life, my life and to the lives of others. Sometimes, when the pain of what happens is running deep, it is all I can do to not make myself known to them and tell them how damaged I am because of them. I have to remember that their damage can only serve me if I chose to allow it to make me stronger rather than more damaged and more the victim. I have to leave their fate up to the universe/god, whomever, as it isn't within my jurisdiction to point out the ripple effect they have had.

 

[NeonKaos]

...wow, I'm more resentful of that than I thought.

That is VERY OK. You have a valid reason. It is not jealousy or misplaced resentment. It's your "gut" telling you something is not right.

I wrote a lot about this not too long ago on another thread if anyone cares to find it... I think it was someone who was cheating and wondered if they should tell their already damaged partner... I said no, they should get a grip on their life, change their behaviour and act respectfully to themselves and to their partner. I don't know what happened, they never wrote back.

Quite a few folks come here expecting "support" or "validation" for their part in a wacky situation and when they are not told what they want to hear, they mysteriously disappear never to be heard from again.

 

[HappiestManAlive]

*sigh*

I am at work and cannot spare the time for a proper reply. Will post later.

 

[redpepper]

I digress. I'm not looking for her to be a "proper unicorn." I'm looking for the hypocrisy to go away.

I can see how you would want this and NEED this! I certainly would feel the same way!

Yup, if she is in that deep, she's cheating big time. She's got some big-time work to do. I hope for all your sake that she does it. You'll all be better for it if she does.

It seems there is more than a little hypocrisy going on, if HMA has trouble with you being with other men! Yet it's okay for him to have other women! Hmmm... where's the compersion in that? I don't have the option to have other men, other than the three I do have, because I made that commitment to Mono. I did so because he is monogamous and I am ready to be polyfi! If he were poly and asked me for that kind of commitment I would have a really hard time with that. I guess you have your own reasons for being okay with it.

We have a friend who is trying to deal with his new girlfriend seeing other men, as he has the same belief and hypocrisy. I hear him, but challenge his logic. That is simply not fair, regardless of your status of not wanting to act on finding another man.

 

[violet]

I can see how you would want this and NEED this! I certainly would feel the same way! Yup, if she is in that deep, she's cheating. She's got some big time work to do. I hope for all your sake that she does it. You'll all be better for it if she does.

It seems there is more than a little hypocrisy going on, if HMA has trouble with you being with other men! Yet it's okay for him to have other women! Where's the compersion in that!? I don't have the option to have other men, other than the three I do have, because I made that commitment to mono. I did so because he is monogamous and I am ready to be polyfi! If he were poly and asked me for that kind of commitment I would have a really hard time with that. I guess you have your own reasons for being okay with it.

The bolded is something HMA and I have had EXTENSIVE conversations about, and it took me a GOOD long time to get him to see how I didn't see it as hypocritical. Because I don't. lol It basically stems from the fact that I identify as a lesbian. I have been in a few long-term relationships with men, but it's an emotional thing, and the sex just sort of follows suit for me. It's an odd mindset, but because I don't WANT other men, but would like to have other women, and because he doesn't WANT other men, as a straight guy, then it's all right for him to have women. Make sense? (Probably not. lol)

That is VERY OK. You have a valid reason. It is not jealousy or misplaced resentment. It's your "gut" telling you something is not right.

Quite a few folks come here expecting "support" or "validation" for their part in a wacky situation, and when they are not told what they want to hear, they mysteriously disappear.

I try very hard to seek support, but when I hear something I don't necessarily want to hear, I try to take it to heart anyway. It would appear that HMA and I will talk and he'll reply here after work. I'm sure this situation will work out, as long as we put the same effort into it that HMA and I put into our original relationship, and the same effort he, Anne, and I have been putting toward our young triad.

 

[LovingRadiance]

But never told her what to do. Not our relationship, not our problem. As long as we feel she is open and honest with us, what she does with Mike is ultimately up to her. We'll offer advice when asked for. We'll offer support when needed.

In some ways this makes sense to me. But at the same time Mono's reply about it, meaning you aren't caring about that third person rings true to me, as well. Like Mono, I had a long-term affair and broke my husband's heart. It was devastating for him, as anyone could guess. But it was also devastating for me. I truly destroyed my faith in myself and my self-esteem in the process, and it's a hell of a hard road back. Those thoughts-- griefs, guilt, I don't think they ever really go away. So it does impact EVERY SINGLE relationship you have afterward.

I think there should be a love/respect for one another's beliefs/needs in a relationship. By that I mean that the wife shouldn't use veto power in this, because she should respect her husband's right to make the decisions for his part in their relationship. BUT the other NECESSARY side of that coin is that he would respect HER rights to the point that he would not put her in the position of having to ignore or pretend to be/do something against her nature, like putting up with a cheater in her home.

Does that make any sense? I feel like I'm not making sense. I guess I feel like each party should prioritize the other's needs over their own wants, and if they do, then the "mess" will be resolved by the husband setting down his own ground rules for the other woman, based on his love and respect for the NEEDS of his wife, and vice versa between all parties.

 

[violet]

I think that there should be a love/respect for one another's beliefs/needs in a relationship. By that, I mean that wife shouldn't use veto power on this, because she should respect her husband's right to make the decisions for his part in their relationship. BUT the other NECESSARY side of that coin is that he would respect HER rights, to the point that he would not put her in the position of having to ignore or pretend to be/do something against her nature, like putting up with a cheater in her home. I guess I feel like each party should prioritize the other's needs over their own wants, and if they do, then the "mess" will be resolved by the husband setting down his own ground rules for the other woman, based on his love and respect for the NEEDS of his wife, and vice versa between all parties.

I can understand what you're saying here. I guess my feeling on the matter, to bring the thread on topic for a sec, is that the husband needs to set ground rules based on his wife's NEEDS, and based on her morals and values. There is a NEED for those to be respected.

IMO, there is not a NEED for her husband to be in the relationship with the other girl. There isn't a NEED for him and the girlfriend to be making the wife uncomfortable. There is not a NEED for the other girl to be lying, or to be complicating things in such a manner. Did that make sense? I feel like a total bitch for saying that. lol

 

[redpepper]

It basically stems from the fact that I identify as a lesbian. I have been in a few long-term relationships with men, but it's an emotional thing, and the sex just sort of follows suit for me. It's an odd mindset, but because I don't WANT other men, but would like to have other women, and because he doesn't WANT other men, as a straight guy, then it's all right for him to have women.

I kind of get it. I identified as a lesbian for ten years, only to find myself in love with my now husband. I had had several long-term relationships before, if you can call them that, in high school and university. Long for that time in my life, I suppose. Anyway, it took me years to loosen up my identity as a lesbian, as I had long term relationships with women too. I then accepted I'm bi and now accept pansexual.

Sexuality and desire is a tide that flows continuously in life. Right now it appears I am allllllll straight! LOL... not at all so, as I loooooong for a woman. I'm so pathetic.

 

[redpepper]

Hey. LovingRadiance, thanks for sharing your story, again, by sharing how healing happens as it offers well-earned knowledge and wisdom to others in need.

It is hard to 'fess up to cheating. I did it too, and am still embarrassed and ashamed. It was years and years ago, a one-shot thing. I vowed to never do it again.

What continued was my guilt about being in love with others, and the guilt continued because I had the potential to do it again, because I couldn't act on that love. That's no problem now that I am poly. I can fully accept and feel no guilt because of my understanding of myself in the context of poly.

 

[Ceoli]

IMO, there is not a NEED for her husband to be in the relationship with the other girl. There isn't a NEED for him and the girlfriend to be making the wife uncomfortable. There is not a NEED for the other girl to be lying, or to be complicating things in such a manner.

I'm not clear on how you're defining "need" in this context. People enter into relationships with other people because those relationships meet certain needs. I would never presume to say that someone does or doesn't need the relationship they're in. I would certainly hope that my choice to be in a relationship with someone would be respected. If I had a partner who had another partner, it's not for me to say whether they need that or not.

As for what the motivations are on the part of this other girl, I really can't say, because there just isn't enough information. But there is some reason why she feels the need to maintain both relationships and not be honest about it. Whether those reasons are objectively real, or just perceived, or something in between, I really don't know. But I'm not going to assume why she's doing what she's doing. So again, I can't say she doesn't have a need in this situation.

And DP is openly and reasonably looking for the best way to meet her own needs in the situation.

I really can't call anyone "wrong" in this. Causing problems, maybe even introducing a destructive dynamic, but I see a lot of vilifying of this other girl. There are other perspectives to consider.

 

[redpepper]

Very true, Ceoli, there isn't enough info. We had a good conversation with what we did have, though!

I feel better. Do you feel better? Heh.

 

[HappiestManAlive]

Thank you, Ceoli, you just saved me a ton of typing! There's more to it, even still, but at least you made the point I've been choking on all afternoon; namely, that there has been a lot of judgement in this thread, three times removed, on cheating once removed. lol

 

[dearprudence]

Wow! I'm sorry I haven't logged on until now. These posts have been very helpful, mostly to converse with others who have a strong opinion on the subject and are able to say why.

I don't look at my situation as having a right and a wrong. I know what feels right for me, and I want my husband to feel the same way I do about things that are important to me. But he won't always feel the same, and neither will I. I don't want veto power, unless our safety is at risk, or something like that. M is also jealous and very possessive after only 5 months. VERY possessive. For me, that's enough to cool down or end a relationship. And that's precisely the reason why I don't want to insert myself.

The two of them have quite a few things to work out. They care for each other and they have to decide where they go from here. It's a little too easy for me to offer my opinion and wisdom. If I don't like what she's doing, if it makes me uncomfortable, if I think it will have a negative ripple effect, all I can do is state my feelings and concerns, and distance myself. Honestly, I don't see this relationship going much further for quite a few reasons. But C's not ready to give up on it yet. We talk about it but we're not fighting about it. If M refuses to come clean to her boyfriend, and wants to move forward with C and take bigger steps, then we may start fighting about it. (Maybe that doesn't warrant a smilie.)

 

[dearprudence]

Thank you, Ceoli, you just saved me a ton of typing! There's more to it, but at least you made the point I've been choking on all afternoon; namely, that there has been a lot of judgement three times removed on cheating once removed.

So easy to fall into the trap.

 

[NeonKaos]

So easy to fall into the trap

If someone airs their laundry on a public forum, they are obviously interested in what people have to say. People are going to answer according to whatever their own experience has led them to. This "judging" is a quasi-religious cop-out "You don't have the RIGHT to JUDGE, only GOD has the RIGHT to JUDGE" and if someone doesn't buy into that, then they have every "right to judge" because we don't have the power to send other people to hell or to prison. So this "judging" is simply an academic/intellectual standpoint that has no real validity unless the recipient chooses to allow it to be so.

People are actually doing [you] a FAVOR by "judging" [you]. If I "judge" [you] and [you] take it upon [yourself] as such, it ain't ME "falling into a trap". I can say whatever and [YOU] are the one who can take it or leave it.

 

[Ceoli]

People are actually doing you a FAVOR by "judging" you. If I "judge" you and you take it upon yourself as such, it ain't ME "falling into a trap". I can say whatever and YOU are the one who can take it or leave it.

Unless you're being judged in a conversation that you're being left out of.

 

[NeonKaos]

Unless you're being judged in a conversation that you're being left out of.

That isn't the problem of the folks DOING the "judging".

THEY aren't the ones who left her out.

As far as I'm concerned, I'd be "judging" according to the information available to me. It is not as though MY "judging" has the power to DO anything TO anyone.

(I'm going back into the first-person because it's easier, but I'm still using the Royal We)

I'm not the one who has the responsibility to the one being left out. I'm just participating in a discussion and placing myself in an "If I were you/ if it were me" perspective. If the "left out" person were to come on and say "hey yo, it ain't like that, here's MY side of it all" then I would re-evaluate my "judging". But what are we supposed to do, sit here and say "Hm, yeah, interesting situation, but I'm afraid we can't say anything about it unless you bring all the people involved to the forum so we can have all points of view fairly represented." Then you would have to bring the boyfriend-who-has-no-clue on the forum as well, in order to be FAIR.

"Judging" someone on an internet forum isn't the same thing as violating someone's civil rights.

 

[Ceoli]

"Judging" someone on an internet forum isn't the same thing as violating someone's civil rights.

Agreed. "Judging" on an internet forum is merely offering an opinion based upon limited information and limited perspectives. I just think it's good to remember the limits of the usefulness of that (next to the usefulness of it).

 

[NeonKaos]

Agreed. "Judging" on an internet forum is merely offering an opinion based upon limited information and limited perspectives. I just think it's good to remember the limits of the usefulness of that (next to the usefulness of it).

Oh definitely! I never intended to imply that this "judging people" is supposed to be some sort of denouement to a whole situation. While people who ask questions or seek opinions must be prepared to get back whatever they get back from the public audience, the converse is true of those doing the "judging" - it says more about the judge than the judged.

I think that's a "converse"? or is it an "inverse"?

Gee I hope that made sense. I think it did, I read it back to myself, but maybe I should stop replying now.

[/hijack]

 

[LovingRadiance]

I can understand what you're saying here. I guess my feeling on the matter, to bring the thread on topic for a sec, is that the husband needs to set ground rules based on his wife's NEEDS, and based on her morals and values. There is a NEED for those to be respected.

IMO, there is not a NEED for her husband to be in the relationship with the other girl. There isn't a NEED for him and the girlfriend to be making the wife uncomfortable. There is not a NEED for the other girl to be lying, or to be complicating things in such a manner. Did that make sense? I feel like a total bitch for saying that... lol

Actually it makes PERFECT sense. That was my point. NEEDS should be prioritized across the board, and it sounds like maybe wants are being prioritized over the wife's needs.

I was trying to express it without using the exact reference of this situation, because I think that it's a bigger picture then JUST cheating. It should encompass ALL parts of the relationship, in my opinion. A person's psychological well-being IS a need, not a want. But a person's getting off with someone specific, or with someone at all, is a want. I might need to get off, but I don't NEED TO GET OFF WITH THAT PERSON.

And I didn't think you sounded like a bitch at all!