A lack of consulting others

[Silentsaturn]

In my 5 years of being poly, I have run into this same problem over and over again and It has left me at my wits end. I want to know if there are others who have had this same problem as myself and how did they go about solving it.

My problem is this: in almost every polyamorus relationship I have been involved in, I keep running into poly people who don't consult a partner or potential partner if they have a problem with them or a problem with something that has happened and instead of sitting down with those people and talking it out, trying to find a way to fix the problem , they instead choose to make rash decisions such as terminating the relationship with out consulting the person in question.

There have been countless times where there have been minor problems that have cropped up between myself and a partner/potential partner and they never sat down and talked to me about it and did something rash instead. These are things that could have been easily talked about and solved in an evening of discussion but more times than not, the relationship was terminated with out talking about it and I have been notified about it via text message one time too many.

Apologies if this sounds ranty but I am so sick and tired of my voice being cut off from speaking and not getting back any respect. To show respect for people, weather it's a poly relationship or a customer at work, I always make myself available and open to talk to, I listen, I'm supportive, and I always tell people that if there is a problem or they have a problem with me that they can come to me and tell me directly because I want to work with them to solve the problem so things can go back to normal but I never get any of this in return. It's really passive aggressive and it hurts A LOT. It's also extremely disheartening and has made finding new partners to be almost impossible and I honestly don't know what to do.

Any insight or advice or anything anyone has would be very helpful.

 

[IndieSolo]

Hi Silentsaturn,
Sorry things have been so rough for you in your poly journey. Break-ups via text messages really suck!

One insight I can offer is this: whenever I see a problematic or unpleasant pattern that crops up in most of my relationships, I look at the common denominator -- me.

I don't look at myself as a victim, nor as the one to blame. Rather, I see relationships as a catalyst for learning something about myself, and the people with whom I am involved are all my teachers, in many ways. It is also important to realize that relationships are not 50-50, but 100-100. In other words, we are all 100% responsible for our parts in the dynamic. So, when I am frequently disappointed or treated in ways that feel hurtful or disrespectful over numerous relationships, what is it about me that puts me in these kinds of situations?

So, I ask myself questions such as:

• Am I usually attracted to a certain kind of person who isn't a fit for me, or isn't capable of being the kind of partner I long for? If so, why is that? What am I looking for? Can I change something inside myself to broaden the kinds of people I am attracted to or find someone who is a fit?
  
  
• Am I blinding myself to finding partners who would treat me well, as a way to deprive myself of the kinds of relationships I want but feel deep down that I don't really deserve?
  
  
• Do these patterns seem familiar, like a dynamic with a parent, teacher, or something else from my childhood? If so, is there a way I can resolve whatever issue keeps coming up so that I don't have to keep playing it out with people in my life today?
  
  
• Do I truly believe that I deserve fulfilling, satisfying, loving relationships or is there some part of me that believes that is for other people, not me?
  
  
• In the beginning stages of a relationship, do I overlook and let certain transgressions or offenses slide, due to things like NRE, not wanting to come across as difficult, or hoping things will just get better on their own -- thereby sending the message that I am okay with such treatment?
  
  
• Am I paying attention to whether or not words and actions of both myself and my partners match up?
  
  
• Have I participated and given in my relationships as much as I expect my partners to participate and give?
  
  
• Am I missing or denying obvious signs that things are going wrong until it's too far gone? Should I speak up more often?
  
  
• Do I send the message that I am the kind of person who can be overlooked or brushed aside easily? What am I doing that sends that message?
  
  
• Is there any feedback I get from partners that seems similar to what other partners have told me? If so, what can I learn from that?

Obviously, the kind of self-examination and resolving of issues that come out of questioning oneself in this way won't happen in an afternoon, but maybe some of these questions will help you in the process of figuring things out.

 

[FallenAngelina]

These are things that could have been easily talked about and solved in an evening of discussion but more times than not, the relationship was terminated with out talking about it and I have been notified about it via text message one time too many.

Often people hang their hat on one "reason" for a breakup, when in truth they have a lot of reasons for a parting that's been a long time coming, but don't want to be overly hurtful. When it comes to opting out of a relationship, there is usually much more going on than one tiny problem that could have been solved in an evening of discussion. Nycindie's excellent list of self-reflective questions is a great place to start if you're looking to make changes in your relationship patterns.

 

[MightyMax]

My first thought was that I often cite the smaller, non-offensive reasons for terminating a relationship, especially one in the early stages. Also, if there are too many small things, it makes the relationship seem like it will be a lot of hard work.

 

[Invi]

Do you feel like you are approachable about problems?
I ask, because I have previously been told that I am not. That people worry about how I will respond, and would rather avoid it altogether. They don't want confrontation, sometimes to the point that they'd rather cut ties than talk about.. whatever it was.
While I may not understand exactly how they feel that way about me in particular (I consider myself pretty level-headed, not prone to emotional outbursts, I don't yell at people, and so on), I understand the sentiment because I am the same way with some other people. I have a hard time telling my partner when something is wrong, for example, much in a similar way that I have trouble communicating with my father.

 

[Silentsaturn]

I agree, letting the small things build up is a very bad thing. That's why I try to regularly check with both myself and my partners/potential partners to see if there has been any kind of build up of the small things and if there has been some build up we sit down, talk it out, and come up with ways to manage and/or stop that build up from happening.

Sometimes it doesn't even get to that point. I've had it where pretty much right off the bat things go from great one day, to "I don't think this is going to work" the next and every time it has left my head spinning. What drives me even more nuts is when I ask those people "why didn't you tell me about this sooner?" They kinda look all innocent, twiddling their thumbs going 'doopie doo' then run away.

As for your questions nycindie, thank you very much for sharing those with me. They have certainly given me some pause to think.

A thought that has been rattling around my head as I write this is: why do so many people think that the easier way is to just run away from problems instead of trying to solve them? I actually enjoy problem solving. It allows people a glimpse into some insight of themselves and allows the creative juices to flow.

I know that some people get scared of problem solving and may not be used to doing it etc... But they don't have to do it all alone.

In a nut shell I want partners who are not afraid to sit down and work on solutions for problems that crop up in their relationships that benefit not only the relationship(s) these problems affect, but I want partners who will encourage others to problem solve as well. To me, that shows that they value and cherish what they have and that they want to take care of it so it can grow and thrive.

 

[Silentsaturn]

Do you feel like you are approachable about problems?
I ask, because I have previously been told that I am not. That people worry about how I will respond, and would rather avoid it altogether. They don't want confrontation, sometimes to the point that they'd rather cut ties than talk about.. whatever it was.
While I may not understand exactly how they feel that way about me in particular (I consider myself pretty level-headed, not prone to emotional outbursts, I don't yell at people, and so on), I understand the sentiment because I am the same way with some other people. I have a hard time telling my partner when something is wrong, for example, much in a similar way that I have trouble communicating with my father.

I've heard that one too many times and it makes me want to beat my head on a wall. It doesn't matter how many times I not only tell people that I have the emotional maturity and intelligence to handle hearing some criticisms, but show them that I can, they still think that I'm going to get hurt or offended! By running away no not talking about it, they are guaranteeing the one thing they didn't want to happen.

Apologies if I seem a bit intense and flabbergasted but that's exactly how I feel while writing this.

Funny thing is, usually more times than not, after I sit down with the person and confront them about running away and why, and show them that I'm not upset, that's when they usually open up. Seriously what's up with that?

 

[GreenAcres]

In addition to all of the good observations and advice given here, how long are these relationships gone on, or how many dates into the "perspective" relationship are you?

I ask because, if I go on a date or two with someone and it's just clear to me that something isn't working out or that I am simply not attracted to them, I don't feel the need to sit down and have an in-depth discussion with them about it (and I don't consider it "running away" in the early stages). People aren't always a fit, which doesn't make anyone a bad person, it's just how it is; but, I don't see the need to make a huge fuss over it with someone who is just a "perspective partner." I probably wouldn't tell them via text, but I also wouldn't really see the need to make myself available for a long chat over it, either. And, I wouldn't necessarily feel the need to explain things, aside from "I am not interested in pursuing a further relationship with you, but wish you well." I am not particularly interested in someone arguing to change my mind because my decision deserves respect. And, someone being really peeved or annoyed, or trying to get me to have a long conversation about something like that in the earliest stages of acquainting with one another, wouldn't exactly make me reconsider--it would probably creep me out and come across as clingy.

Relationships of any kind aren't democracies, one party can choose to end them, and the other party needn't necessarily agree. In longer relationships with a history, one may choose to try and work those differences out with a partner rather than end it, of course; but, there is no rule that one person must consult the other if they don't want to continue dating.

If this is happening in longer-term relationships, then that is different; but, since you'd said "potential partners," I wondered if this was often just in the getting-to-know-each-other phase.

 

[IndieSolo]

Maybe it is a matter of improving your vetting process.

There is nothing wrong with stating up front: "I want partners who are not afraid to sit down and work on solutions for problems that crop up in their relationships that benefit not only the relationship(s) these problems affect, but I want partners who will encourage others to problem solve as well. To me, that shows that they value and cherish what they have and that they want to take care of it so it can grow and thrive."

 

[Inyourendo]

Often people hang their hat on one "reason" for a breakup, when in truth they have a lot of reasons for a parting that's been a long time coming, but don't want to be overly hurtful. When it comes to opt of a relationship, there is usually much more going on than one tiny problem that could have been solved in an evening of discussion. Nycindie's excellent list of self-reflective questions is a great place to start if you're looking to make changes in your relationship patterns.

I agree with this, seems like if they wanted to make it work they would. I've made some pretty lame excuses to break up with people in the past. Seems like once the NRE is over when I first start dating someone i realize i dont really like the person enough to continue. Could be I don't like their habits, the way they smell, any number of superficial reasons really

 

[SchrodingersCat]

A thought that has been rattling around my head as I write this is: why do so many people think that the easier way is to just run away from problems instead of trying to solve them? I actually enjoy problem solving. It allows people a glimpse into some insight of themselves and allows the creative juices to flow.

If I'm not even dating someone yet, and it already feels more like "work" than "play," that's a sure-fire sign that this relationship isn't meant to be.

In the beginning stages of a relationship, you're typically so smitten and excited that you're willing to overlook all kinds of glaring faults and focus on the positives. When I meet someone and two or three dates in, we already have to "have a talk" about "problems" before we're even off the launchpad, I can only imagine how much fun it's going to get when real shit hits the fan.

Put another way... leaving situations that don't benefit you is a perfectly acceptable way of "solving" certain problems. I'm not endorsing running away every time there's a little glitch, but some problems just aren't worth the effort.

 

[Inyourendo]

If I'm not even dating someone yet, andlaundrydy feels more like "work" than "play," that's a sure-fire sign that this relationship isn't meant to be.

In the beginning stages of a relationship, you're typically so smitten and excited that you're willing to overlook all kinds of glaring faults and focus on the positives. When I meet someone and two or three dates in, we already have to "have a talk" about "problems" before we're even off the launchpad, I can only imagine how much fun it's going to get when real shit hits the fan.

Put another way... leaving situations that don't benefit you is a perfectly acceptable way of "solving" certain problems. I'm not endorsing running away every time there's a little glitch, but some problems just aren't worth the effort.

Definitely same here. I dated a guy a couple years ago and he had a laundry list of things he didn't like about me. That ended real fast

 

[Becca]

I agree with what's been mentioned above-- sometimes people just decide that they don't want to pursue a relationship, and will try to use the simplest explanation they can, boiling the "global incompatibility" they're feeling down to just one thing (I'm really busy at work, or I don't see this working out).

Are you gracious with rejection, or do you want to argue? I ask, knowing that I'm not gracious at all! I try to negotiate, try to change their minds, hold on when I should let go. It's hard! But ultimately, letting go can be a healing thing, and can make it easier to salvage a good friendship.

Anyway, with what you wrote, it sounds like you might be seeing someone "running away" from what they should be somehow... morally obligated?... to be committed to. When really, if a relationship isn't mutually rewarding, if it's in the early stages (less than two years), the healthier, stronger thing may be to recognize that your paths aren't meant to intertwine as much as you'd hoped.

I use two years as a measuring stick because for me, that's when NRE wears off completely, you find out where the work of the relationship will be, and can determine whether there's enough compatibility to do the work.

 

[Silentsaturn]

I would like to point out a troubling pattern I am seeing here. The replies I am getting are so focused on the potential partner aspect of my topic that everything else is getting ignored.

I ask people who reject me or terminate relationships with me why they decided to do so so I can get a better understanding of where they are coming from, to see if there are any important lessons for me to learn, and it makes letting go a lot easier for me. If a person doesn't give mme a Reason why until well after the fact, I go squirrley thinking about what I might have done wrong and it has left me with a few sleepless nights. I want to make it clear that I do not try to pry an answer out of anyone or try to change anyone's minds. That's wrong and goes completely against their wishes. I just ask them to share some insight from their perspective so I can get some peace of mind from the situation which helps letting go become much easier.

As I have stated in my first post, this trend I am seeing is happening way too often and it needs to stop. I'm even seeing it from poly people who have quite a lot of experience under their belts. I have read in numerous books, have been taught, have heard in numerous poly groups and so on that in poly there has to be open, honest communication from the very beginning, to the end and even beyond that if it goes that far and I am just trying to practice what I have learned but for whatever reason, I keep running into people who either can't or won't communicate when there are problems and it's even coming from poly people too which really scares me! It has lead to boundaries from all angles, including my own, to be crossed and needlessly so.

I'm not the only one who is running into this problem. Almost everyone in my constellation has run into this problem over and over again and none of us can figure out why it's happeneing or what we can to either stop it or change it in some way.

I hope this clears up any misconceptions I may have caused here.

 

[GreenAcres]

I would like to point out a troubling pattern I am seeing here. The replies I am getting are so focused on the potential partner aspect of my topic that everything else is getting ignored.

I ask people who reject me or terminate relationships with me why they decided to do so so I can get a better understanding of where they are coming from, to see if there are any important lessons for me to learn, and it makes letting go a lot easier for me. If a person doesn't give mme a Reason why until well after the fact, I go squirrley thinking about what I might have done wrong and it has left me with a few sleepless nights. I want to make it clear that I do not try to pry an answer out of anyone or try to change anyone's minds. That's wrong and goes completely against their wishes. I just ask them to share some insight from their perspective so I can get some peace of mind from the situation which helps letting go become much easier.

As I have stated in my first post, this trend I am seeing is happening way too often and it needs to stop. I'm even seeing it from poly people who have quite a lot of experience under their belts. I have read in numerous books, have been taught, have heard in numerous poly groups and so on that in poly there has to be open, honest communication from the very beginning, to the end and even beyond that if it goes that far and I am just trying to practice what I have learned but for whatever reason, I keep running into people who either can't or won't communicate when there are problems and it's even coming from poly people too which really scares me! It has lead to boundaries from all angles, including my own, to be crossed and needlessly so.

I'm not the only one who is running into this problem. Almost everyone in my constellation has run into this problem over and over again and none of us can figure out why it's happeneing or what we can to either stop it or change it in some way.

I hope this clears up any misconceptions I may have caused here.

Perhaps you could be more specific about situations, then, to help us understand? I haven't experienced a lack of communication such as you describe very often except in the very first stages of dating, during which point I don't feel anyone owes me any kind of reasons for ending things or vice-versa (so I don't really qualify it as a "lack of communication," just a part of dating). If it's happening to you, or others in your "constellation" (I put that in quotes because I have no idea what it means, I've not heard it in a poly context before) in longer-term scenarios, can you give us examples so we have some idea what you mean?

No one owes me closure at any stage, but especially in the early stages, and if I spend sleepless nights, that's on me. In longer relationships, one would hope that partners had discussed relationship-ending issues prior to it becoming that big a deal, and I'd therefore have a good idea of what was up (and, of course, it's nice if they tell me). But, if they don't tell me why they're ending the relationship, that is their choice; and, while I may be sad, if they've chosen to not discuss it with me I just make the assumption they were either 1) shitty at communication, 2) doing something they figured would either hurt me or piss me off, or 3) were having their own internal issues they didn't want to discuss or didn't feel they could discuss with me for whatever reason. In any of these cases, these aren't qualities I look for in long-term partners, so I let it go and work through my grief. I'm something of a firm believer that you make your own closure.

I don't believe there need to be communication beyond the end of a relationship if I severe that relationship and have no interest in being friends--I am not sure why I would be obliged to spend time on that. While I believe in open and honest communication always, to me that doesn't mean telling everyone everything, especially initially.

Is this sudden, no-explanation breakup thing happening after years into a relationship? 6 months? 2 dates? Are the "reasons" they give you that you feel they should have talked out with you first consistent (meaning, are they often repeated to you from different people)? What actions do you think they should be obliged to take, and after how long dating you?

 

[Inyourendo]

Sounds like normal dating behavior to me. Dating is meeting people to see if you want to continue seeing them. When you go out a few times and realize they aren't your cup of tea then you stop seeing each other. Doesn't really have to have a reason, some people just don't have chemistry. You can't beat yourself up over it.

 

[FallenAngelina]

I ask people who reject me or terminate relationships with me why they decided to do so so I can get a better understanding of where they are coming from, to see if there are any important lessons for me to learn, and it makes letting go a lot easier for me.

People come and go for many reasons, much of it having nothing to do with anything the other person needs to learn from or change. Dating becomes much more enjoyable if you're able to allow people graceful entrances and exits without taking things so personally. If you're dependent on "reasons" and "exit interviews" for your dating peace of mind, you're gonna have a rocky road indeed.

Adopting a more easy breezy approach such as the one Becca describes also puts people at ease and makes a sudden, unexplained departure much less likely. Someone who presses for communication so that he can "learn lessons" is pretty off putting and not something most people want in an ongoing relationship. As nycindie said, if you keep running into the same problem, look to the common denominator if you really want to change the situation.

...sometimes people just decide that they don't want to pursue a relationship...

 

[Asparagus]

Yep. I feel your feels and get your pain. Just went through this. I enjoy problem solving, too. My last 2 partners did not, and one of the break-ups felt out of left field for me. And several times, they got to "ready to dump" stage and I was mystified- weren't they going to at least talk to me? In my doings, I feel I owe someone the chance to know about problems if they come up, to choose to work on things/talk them out and continue or let it go. With one current partner, who matches my style, this is a bonus. With my two last ones, this was a curse. It felt, ironically, insecure , to them because there was always something coming up. While I felt it was insecure that they let things build up, because I had no chance to change or talk things out or address, so it was out of my control to adapt or give them insight into me that might help.

An insight my friend gave me is that we often think relationship problems should be solved calmly and easily, but actually, lots of happy long-term relationships have either two avoiders, or two volatile problem solvers, or two calm problem solvers, but a mix can cause a lot of tension.

FWIW, if you were in a similar age bracket and local, I'd check you out just for your position on problem solving. To me, that's an attractive qualities. I am also thinking the list of questions might be good for me. I already know I'm repeating a family dynamic. And very interested in finding more people compatible with what I need.

One other question - is there something you're attracted to in the people you choose that you could incorporate into yourself so you don't have to look for it in others? I liked my previous partners' emphasis on just creating positive experiences and focusing on the positive, rather than problems , even if I never flexed enough to live that way fully. Without them around, I'm starting to do that for myself even more. A great legacy from dating them.

 

[Asparagus]

Also, with break-up pain, I'm deciding that I'm responsible for my own closure. Sure, it would be nice to know. But the basics are the person breaking up with me just saved me and them a lot of pain of trying to work through a relationship where they felt there was terminal incompatibility. If it * could* have been worked out and they didn't- do I really want someone who doesn't sit down and work it through? And if it couldn't - well, no one wants that to go on .

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle. I don't know if this helps you any or if any of it applies. I offer it for your consideration.

Are you telling the potential this up front?

In a nut shell I want partners who are not afraid to sit down and work on solutions for problems that crop up in their relationships that benefit not only the relationship(s) these problems affect, but I want partners who will encourage others to problem solve as well. To me, that shows that they value and cherish what they have and that they want to take care of it so it can grow and thrive.

You also mention you hate being broken up with over text. Do you tell them what you DO prefer? Like... "If it has to happen, break up with me (over phone/email/in person) -- not text. That is my preference. Could you be willing to honor that preference?"

Some people are simply conflict avoidant. You seem to be conflict collaborative.

Maybe when you first start dating people you could tell them you prefer a collaborative conflict resolution style and ask them what they prefer?

http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newLDR_81.htm

Could that save you grief?

I ask people who reject me or terminate relationships with me why they decided to do so so I can get a better understanding of where they are coming from, to see if there are any important lessons for me to learn, and it makes letting go a lot easier for me.

I mean this kindly ok? My feedback may not be easy to hear. Here are areas I think you could work on.

1) It isn't their job to make letting go easier on you.

Their job is to make life easier on them. If they are not willing to grant an "exit interview" I can see where it is frustrating for you because you want one. You could ask if they are willing to do so. At the same time, if people are NOT willing to do so? They are not obligated to do this. You could learn to accept that the person who makes the "letting go process" easier on you is YOU. Maybe this article helps you some.

2) You could learn techniques to help you to stop ruminating.

If a person doesn't give me a Reason why until well after the fact, I go squirrley thinking about what I might have done wrong and it has left me with a few sleepless nights.

If you notice yourself going squirrelly with overthinking that it must be something you did, do you know how to stop? Have you learned how to tame monkey mind so unruly thoughts are not cranking up anxieties or fears?

3) You could create your own peace of mind

I just ask them to share some insight from their perspective so I can get some peace of mind from the situation which helps letting go become much easier.

The one who creates peace in your mind is you. Not other people. If what causes you upset is (you thinking you did something wrong and pick pick picking at yourself to find the "evidence") that is the behavior to stop. Who is doing that? You.

You can solve it by learning how to not do that.

• If upon self examination you find that you did a behavior that was yucky, you could resolve to stop doing that. Then let it go as a learning experience.

• If upon self examination you find you did nothing? You could decide the problem was on their end. You cannot do anything about their end. Then let it go as a learning experience.

• If upon self examination you find nothing, yet you pick and pick and pick at it like SURELY it must be something you did... you are keeping it stuck in Upset Land with this type of ruminating behavior. You are not moving it forward toward Peace of Mind. It is not the ex that is causing you pain, but the nitpicking at yourself. You could learn to stop doing that type of thinking behavior.

Not everyone you date will be a long haul runner. Maybe a combo of choosing partners with similar approach to conflict resolution along with learning to not pick at it if things do not work out will yield better dating experiences for you because you can let go of the ones that are not a runner more easily?

4) Check intensity / defensive listening if it is happening here.

You come across as really INTENSE with your dating partners... relating every experience back to yourself. And that could be a turn off for some people. Like...

"Does everything have to be a life lesson for your benefit? Can't we just chill and have a good time?"

"Do I have to keep reassuring you that it isn't you/things are fine/you are safe? Am I here just to prop you up?"​

That might be part of their reticence. If you come across as this personality who will not let a thing go without discussing it to death like a dog with a bone? Or someone who does a lot of defensive listening/taking it personally... always scanning the horizon for attacks and "reading between the lines?"

They might prefer to fade out and get themselves out of there ASAP. Rather than give you a more solid reason why they are ending it or grant you exit interview type feedback. They might just want out; they might not want to feel stuck listening to you "defending" against the break up happening.

Some personalities simply don't get on well together for dating. Nobody's fault. It stinks to break up, but that's what dating is for. To find the compatible people. It isn't that you personally are undesirable. It's that the pair is just not a match.

Maybe rather than taking it as personal rejection (I messed up somehow/I stink) you could learn to view it as situational (This is just not a match)?

I'm sorry I cannot think of a kinder way to phrase all that though.

I hope you do consider that feedback as you think of how to move it forward for yourself. Those might be areas to contemplate if they apply here.

GL!
Galagirl