A little help please (triad)

[DestinyWaits]

I was wondering if anyone else had ever had this experience, and if so, how you handled it. In our relationship with our last partner, a woman my husband and I loved very dearly, we were always trying to put things on an equal level with everyone. We wanted her to feel that she was an equal part of our relationship. We got her opinion on decisions, included her in day-to-day activities, and so on. All this was made more difficult by the fact that she wanted to live on her own, to put on the outer appearance of being "normal" for her seriously religious mother, but at the same time wanted to be an avid part of our relationship.

We took all the steps that we could think of to take to let her know she was an equal with us, or more importantly, with me, as a sister wife should be. But she was insistent that she was and would remain the "third" person. We wanted her to be an equal, but she couldn't get past the fact that we had been a married couple for years before she came along. I think this is part of the reason our relationship didn't last, which is very upsetting, because she was the one we thought would be with us forever. We loved her dearly.

Do any of you know what can be done to help make someone understand that, although we are married, we do have enough love to include them and love them as an equal? Can this be done?

 

[vandalin]

It sounds to me as though she wanted to be with you two, but not as a triad. It sounds like she may have felt she was intruding on your married relationship. Perhaps she wasn't ready to be an equal. She seems to have wanted to keep her life separate. She obviously has an outside influence, or at least pressure from her mother, to still be, or pretend to be, someone she is not.

I'm not sure if my input can be of any help, since it might seem like I'm just repeating what you said, but sometimes a change of syntax can put a new perspective on a problem. Time and communication are about the only thing I can suggest. Ask her what she wants for the relationship, what her ideal would be, what role she sees herself in.

 

[Quath]

It is hard to overcome the social conditioning we are taught as we grow up. So all you can do is to try to work to get people to re-evaluate the things they were taught growing up and see if they can accept new ideas like triads.

You could also try the classic approach of trying to get someone to read some Heinlein books.

 

[DestinyWaits]

In all honesty, I understand what you both have said. Thankfully, my husband knew who Heinlein was, because I didn't, and so now I will have to read some of those books myself... as if my library weren't big enough already! hehe

I do plan on talking to her again about it all. Maybe since we have been apart for a few months, we can see where we went wrong and try to work together to fix the problems.

Thanks to you both.

 

[foxflame88]

I don't have any advice, but wanted to offer encouragement. Good luck!

 

[Mark1npt]

DestinyWaits,

Quath and Vandalin have presented good views on this subject. Another I may offer is that things may not always be what they appear to be. I hate to question anyone's motives, but perhaps she was not the person you and your husband thought she was or were in love with. Maybe living alone was a convenient excuse to not totally immerse herself in a polyamorous life. Maybe she was still finding herself, questioning herself and her ingrained upbringing, and not ready to commit forever. People get cold feet all the time. We've all been in relationships where one person valued the relationship more deeply than the other. People walk all the time, for various reasons. Keep trying. You two may yet find the right person to share the rest of your lives with.

 

[DestinyWaits]

Mark, I believe you are right on this one. The two of us have thought the same thing since she kept refusing to move in with us, even though it had been almost a year. I know her family are important to her, but need she have said, "Mom, Dad, I'm moving in with this couple because we are all in a relationship." Or could she have just said something like, "Mom, Dad, I'm moving in with these friends of mine to help me out, since I'm a single mother of two, and they are great with the kids"? These are things we have wondered.

I hope you are right. We do want this. We hope that somewhere out there, there is the other piece of us that we are searching for.

 

[Nadine]

No advice, but I'm hoping you guys can all come to a decision, and I hope it's a good one.

 

[Mark1npt]

Destiny, I think maybe the kicker was she had two kids. She probably didn't or couldn't come to grips with how to deal with this situation and her kids. I know it's made it immensely easier for us three with all our kids grown and headed off to college. It just removes a huge hurdle.

 

[XYZ123]

I think maybe the kicker was she had two kids. She probably couldn't come to grips with how to deal with this situation and her kids. I know it's made it immensely easier for us three with all our kids grown and headed off to college. It just removes a huge hurdle.

He has a point. I'm on the other end. I'm married with a young child and another on the way. While my husband and I did have one polyamorous V, with me at the center, it was incredibly hard for me to enter into it and balance it out with being a mother, and also with having an extended family that would never understand.

We thought P was right for us, but P was also a very special person whom we had been friends with for years, long before our son was born. Even now, I don't know if I can ever go forward in another poly relationship and not feel I'm somehow "messing up" the lives of my children. It's upbringing and society, in part, but it's also my difficulty in letting go of my whole white-picket-fence dream life I grew up wanting.

Whatever happens, I wish you all the best. Maybe she'll come to terms and maybe she won't. Either way, I hope you all find what you are looking for.

 

[punkinbutt69]

In love and lost

I have been in this relationship for almost two years. I love him very much, but his wife and I don't get along very well. I try to make friends with her, but she doesn't seem to want to be friends. I'm feeling very confused and torn, because I love him so very much and can't imagine my life without him. I often feel second best and that his love for me isn't what it should be.

I spend a lot of time crying. I have absolutely no one to talk to. I joined this forum to see what everyone else feels, and see if anyone might have any advice for me. I will appreciate any comments I get.

 

[redpepper]

Perhaps this whole poly thing isn't for her? In that case, you've got a problem on your hands. You all do! That is tough. I can't imagine how that must make you feel, as if you are second fiddle. I don't know if I would bother with it, but then, I don't settle with anything! Life is too short to be feeling anything but the best you can. To do that, I expect the best and give my best every time.

I hope others can shed more light with their own personal stories.

Good luck.

 

[Ceoli]

I'm going to offer a different perspective here. I apologize ahead of time if I ruffle some feathers, because I obviously don't know the nuances or the true picture of what's happening in this relationship. But so far, most of the replies I've seen have been coming from the perspective of couples, and not from the perspective of the "thirds." What I've seen has ruffled my feathers quite a bit.

Here are some examples of what I read that ruffled my feathers:

It also sounds like she may have felt she was intruding on you and your husband's relationship. Perhaps she wasn't ready to be an equal.

It is hard to overcome the social conditioning we are taught as we grow up. So all you can do is to try to work to get people to re-evaluate the things they were taught growing up and see if they can accept new ideas like triads.

I hate to question everyone's motive, but perhaps she was not the person you and your husband thought she was or were in love with. Maybe the living alone was a convenient excuse to not totally immerse herself in the lifestyle. Maybe she was still finding herself, questioning herself and her ingrained upbringing and not ready to commit to the life forever.

I believe you are right on this one. The two of us have thought the same thing, since she kept refusing to move in with us, even though it had been almost a year.

I think maybe the kicker was she had two kids. She probably didn't or couldn't come to grips with how to deal with this situation and her kids.

Perhaps this whole poly thing isn't for her.

All of these seem to suggest that if the "third" is not fitting into the vision/desire of the couple, it must be because she (or her approach, or ability to cope) is somehow flawed, or coming from the wrong place, or whatever.

All relationships (mono, poly, friendships, partnerships, family, etc.) run by a pretty similar formula. People have needs that are or are not met in these relationships.

Did it ever occur to anyone that perhaps this "third's" needs are different than the couple's, and that's okay?

I'm currently dating a couple. We are a triad. I am grateful for the enrichment and love we share, but I've been very clear about the fact that I'm not interested in moving in with them, despite how equal they want me to be. That is because I have needs they can't meet.

I know that if I were to move in, I would have to give up a heck of a lot more than they would. I want to build a life in partnership, start a family, etc. I would not get that opportunity with this couple, as they have already done that.

In addition, if I were to move in with this couple, and "marry" into it, all sorts of decisions about the life we lead together would have already been made long before I was ever in the picture. I would never get to be a part of such things, no matter how hard the couple tried to make me equal.

That's simply not what I want. Thankfully, the couple I'm dating has been understanding of where I am, and so we are able to grow into what's right for the relationship(s), not into what's right for their preconceived notions of a poly-fi triad.

This doesn't mean that I'm not ready for polyamory, or can't cope, or that poly isn't for me, or that I haven't gotten over conformist social conditioning, or anything else like that. It simply means that I have different needs.

Honestly, it's this sense of entitlement that couples often approach poly relationships with that makes unicorns so rare.

 

[redpepper]

I have been in this relationship for almost two years. I love him very much. But his wife and I don't get along very well. I try to make friends with her but she doesn't seem to want to be friends. I'm feeling very confused and torn because I love him so very much and can't imagine my life with out him. I often feel second best and that his love for me isn't what it should be. I spend a lot of time crying and feel I have absolutely no one to talk to. I joined this forum to see what everyone else feels, and see if anyone might have any advice for me I will appreciate any comments I get.

Ceoli, I was responding to this post, not the original one. I agree with what you are saying, however, and see your point.

 

[Ceoli]

Whoops! Ah yes, that makes sense.

 

[DestinyWaits]

Ceoli, I see your point, and no feathers were ruffled. I do understand what you say, and could have understood something like that and honored her feelings, had she ever said any of the things you said. But alas, she did not.

What she wanted was more and more one-on-one time with each of us, and less time with us as a threesome. When we first started the relationship, we told her what it was we were looking for (the equal triad and a life partner) and she told us that was what she wanted too. But as time went on, her whole attitude on the relationship changed, and instead of a family, she wanted someone to spend the nights with her, and she wanted to dictate which one it was. If either of us declined, for whatever reason, she would get upset and say we didn't care for her.

When we approached her with the moving-in idea, at first it was, "When my lease runs out on my house." Then it went to, "I'm going to re-up my lease, because I don't want to have to explain our relationship to my mom." Then it went to, "I've decided to stay here, because you've been together 16 years, and I could never fit in as a family," even after all we did to make her feel like an integral part of our lives.

 

[Ceoli]

Ceoli, I could have understood something like that and honored her feelings, had she ever said any of the things you said, but alas, she did not. What she wanted was more and more one-on-one time with each of us and less time with us as a threesome. When we first started the relationship, we told her what it was we were looking for (the equal triad and a life partner), and she told us that was what she wanted too. But as time went on, her whole attitude on the relationship changed, and instead of a family, she wanted someone to spend the nights with her, and she wanted to dictate which one it was. If either of us declined, for whatever reason, she would get upset and say we didn't care for her. When we approached her with the moving-in idea, at first it was "When my lease runs out on my house." Then it went to "I'm going to re-up my lease, because I don't want to have to explain our relationship to my mom." Then it went to "I've decided to stay here because you've been together 16 yrs and I could never fit in as a family," even after all we did to make her feel like an integral part of our lives.

While she probably could have handled it differently, it still sounds like she simply has different needs than you do. It is often hard for a "third" to learn the skills of standing up for themselves, and giving voice to their needs, when in a relationship with an established couple. As I said before, for the unicorn, it can often feel like they have a lot more to lose in a relationship than the couple. And when people don't know how to give voice to their needs and share them, it can often start showing up in other negative ways.

Also, there are times when a unicorn may genuinely think being in a triad as an equal life partner is what they want, until they learn the realities of the dynamics of being in a relationship with a couple. No matter how hard a couple tries to make it easier for the unicorn to integrate, there are factors that cannot be changed in such a relationship. Some people may think they're ok with those factors in theory, but find that the reality of coping with such things is more emotional pain than it's worth. For others, those factors don't seem to matter at all, and they can happily integrate with a couple. Again, it's just a matter of different needs, not one person being more poly or more real than another. (That last sentence isn't really directed at you, but sort of addressing the general attitude I've seen throughout these boards.)

It sounds like she didn't know how to voice her needs, but finally did when she said that she felt like she could never fit in as a family. This is a perfectly valid feeling that should be honored. There's nothing you can do to make her feel more valued or special if you and she have differing needs.

Happily, the couple I've been dating decided that they were happy to be with me in whatever way I was available to them, and this took the pressure off me to try to fit into what they wanted, especially since it's hard to form equal connections with two people at equal rates. There are times when I see one of them, rather than both of them, because we are growing and fostering our individual connections, as well as the triad dynamic. We continue to have lovely relationships because of that.

A while back, a friend of mine posted something called the HBB flowchart. Parts of it may or may not apply to your particular situation as a couple, but I can say that most of it applies to us single bisexual women when we are faced with the possibility of "joining a couple." It's a bit tongue-in-cheek and scathing towards couples who are seeking a unicorn, but it's still worth a read, because it is something many single bi women are faced with.

http://tacit.livejournal.com/295369.html

Best of luck in getting your needs met.

 

[XYZ123]

Ceoli, I just laughed so hard juice actually came out my nose. I have to show that link to some polyamorous friends of mine. Thanks!