Advice On Opening An Existing Relationship
- Thread starter Elizabeth3500
- Start date
YouAreHere
Well-known member
I suggest you look up the term "sunk-cost fallacy" if you're not familiar with it. Basically, it's being so invested in "what has come before" that you're not making the best decision for you "right now."
A good quote from this article (emphasis mine):
You have been trying to recoup your investment in this relationship for some time now, and it's not working. What decision(s) do you need to make now, in order to move your life in the direction that you need?
He's clearly checked out. You seem to be on the verge of despondent and grasping for anything that will save this, and I feel for you, but please don't compromise your own happiness because he refuses to work at this relationship. What will you be succeeding at saving if you stay? Do you truly believe you can get back what you had before?
A good quote from this article (emphasis mine):
You have been trying to recoup your investment in this relationship for some time now, and it's not working. What decision(s) do you need to make now, in order to move your life in the direction that you need?
He's clearly checked out. You seem to be on the verge of despondent and grasping for anything that will save this, and I feel for you, but please don't compromise your own happiness because he refuses to work at this relationship. What will you be succeeding at saving if you stay? Do you truly believe you can get back what you had before?
IndieSolo
Active member
Oh, hon, you need to face what's happening right now. It is pretty clear from your writing that the relationship is over. I suggest you start extricating yourself from it now. Just worry about yourself, for once. Gather up your money, find a place to stay, and pack your bags. His depression, broken ankle, and sucky attitude are his problems, not yours. When you spend so much time and effort trying to take care of someone who won't take care of himself, and doesn't make the slightest attempt to even meet you halfway, you will just deplete yourself of all your energy and spirit. You deserve better.
Touching back on the testosterone, he may not feel any different, but did you when he was on replacement? The doctor put my dad on an anti- depressant, and he claimed he felt no different, but my mother loudly proclaimed it made her feel better.
You mentioned injury and surgery. Pain medication and physical inactivity will both drop T and sex drive dramatically. Not to mention fog the mind to face the situation at hand.
It looks like the writing is on the wall. Seeking friends and sex elsewhere may end this relationship, but him failing to communicate or try anything will definitely end things.
You mentioned injury and surgery. Pain medication and physical inactivity will both drop T and sex drive dramatically. Not to mention fog the mind to face the situation at hand.
It looks like the writing is on the wall. Seeking friends and sex elsewhere may end this relationship, but him failing to communicate or try anything will definitely end things.
SweetSensations
New member
I am also in a sexless marriage
Yikes, your story runs parallel with some of us. You can read up on this thread. http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36166
I have an update. Husband took a dive then pulled out of it. He has been very loving lately.
It sounds like you want your new beau for Valentine's Day. I think that may be a suicide move for your current relationship. Your BF could slip in the "she doesn't love me" zone. "If she loved me, she would never do this near Valentine's Day." IDK. I would feel slapped if my husband gave me ultimatums and stepped out near Valentine's Day. Not that you don't deserve sex or intimacy. I know, "What about me?" No fair. Yeppers, it is not fair.
A couple of things that I did were key. He wouldn't read enough of http://www.amazon.com/Love-In-Abundance-Counselors-Relationships/dp/1890159778
I did most all the legwork. He was flailing around in a depressive daze. He would not go to counseling, but did it via triangulation. He followed through with some of the assignments.
I put him in a DADT model after about 3-4 immensely anxiety-provoking talks for him. The reason I put it in front of him over and over was because he had basically been in denial that I could really step out. I set boundaries for myself. I set rules that might bring him some peace and me sex. DADTs have a high failure rate unless both are genuinely on the same page. I knew if I kept trying to push my agenda on H I would lose him. At the time, I thought, "So be it. Maybe it is not meant to be. This is so draining. I can't go the rest of my life without sex/a man's touch/intimacy."
IMO, if I would have made him accept my new beau in a month, he would have left. Don't let us guide you. Let your feedback to a therapist guide you as to the timeframe. NRE can be your worst enemy right now. For me, it clouded the ability to reason. Mind you, I had gently told H I was stepping out for sex, then sat on the fence for months.
Once he was past denial and shock, I had a better chance at reasoning. He was still emotional and I had to de-escalate our talks. I thought it helped to not have a man already in my hand. I can't be sure. I think he wanted to leave out of sheer anxiety. He said he wanted a divorce because he no longer wanted to see me in pain. I was really ready to back down. A mentor said not to, after inquiring about our intimacy/activities as a couple.
Even though I feel like telling him, "I deserve sex, damn it!" I held it in. Him going through passive-aggressive phases was met with love, mostly (though I felt like pinching his ear and sitting him in the corner). We didn't point fingers without bringing the conversation back to love.
I can give you details if you wish to know how I went from point A to B. I could not use threats, because I knew he would get anxious and start tearing down the marriage. He was whimpering in his sleep. That pained me the most.
Remember open relationships are not mainstream. A small percentage of the population engages in them, which means we have a lot of educating to do to win our SOs over to an open mindset.
Anxiety and depression can lead to sexual anorexia. If you add low T to that-- OOPS. Stress also will make the adrenals malfunction and not produce testosterone.
Fast forward, my husband has sent me flowers again. I can cuddle with him again. But I do get sex and intimacy outside the marriage once or twice a week. Husband doesn't like it, but he said he accepts it.
When you see him passive-aggressively tearing down the relationship, meet him with love. It will not be easy. The best choice I made was to not do things to tear down the marriage. I coddled him while he was healing. The effort was worth it, but time consuming.
If I may, you don't have time for Marianne Williamson's book. Even though it is a good book, it won't help you as much as a non-monogamy book like Opening Up will. Your meditations should be filled with positive direction/visualization.
Focus on the jealousy section and boundaries/rules. My husband didn't participate much. It was too overwhelming. I made sensible boundaries, then followed through. I informed him of my actions that would protect him. I did cross my boundaries, then I got back to them.
The posters on my thread, the core members of the group, saved my marriage. Thank you all. KDT and Dusty put a lot of time into me. Look at the posts that the members write. They are well-thought-out.
I only reveal that I am with MM to my husband once every blue moon. It is too rough on him. Your BF will negotiate sex back into the relationship temporarily, but it won't last unless he pulls out of this state, which won't be soon, because he is now dealing with shock, anxiety and depression.
YMMV. Take what you like and leave the rest. ((hugs)))
Yikes, your story runs parallel with some of us. You can read up on this thread. http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36166
I have an update. Husband took a dive then pulled out of it. He has been very loving lately.
It sounds like you want your new beau for Valentine's Day. I think that may be a suicide move for your current relationship. Your BF could slip in the "she doesn't love me" zone. "If she loved me, she would never do this near Valentine's Day." IDK. I would feel slapped if my husband gave me ultimatums and stepped out near Valentine's Day. Not that you don't deserve sex or intimacy. I know, "What about me?" No fair. Yeppers, it is not fair.
A couple of things that I did were key. He wouldn't read enough of http://www.amazon.com/Love-In-Abundance-Counselors-Relationships/dp/1890159778
I did most all the legwork. He was flailing around in a depressive daze. He would not go to counseling, but did it via triangulation. He followed through with some of the assignments.
I put him in a DADT model after about 3-4 immensely anxiety-provoking talks for him. The reason I put it in front of him over and over was because he had basically been in denial that I could really step out. I set boundaries for myself. I set rules that might bring him some peace and me sex. DADTs have a high failure rate unless both are genuinely on the same page. I knew if I kept trying to push my agenda on H I would lose him. At the time, I thought, "So be it. Maybe it is not meant to be. This is so draining. I can't go the rest of my life without sex/a man's touch/intimacy."
IMO, if I would have made him accept my new beau in a month, he would have left. Don't let us guide you. Let your feedback to a therapist guide you as to the timeframe. NRE can be your worst enemy right now. For me, it clouded the ability to reason. Mind you, I had gently told H I was stepping out for sex, then sat on the fence for months.
Once he was past denial and shock, I had a better chance at reasoning. He was still emotional and I had to de-escalate our talks. I thought it helped to not have a man already in my hand. I can't be sure. I think he wanted to leave out of sheer anxiety. He said he wanted a divorce because he no longer wanted to see me in pain. I was really ready to back down. A mentor said not to, after inquiring about our intimacy/activities as a couple.
Even though I feel like telling him, "I deserve sex, damn it!" I held it in. Him going through passive-aggressive phases was met with love, mostly (though I felt like pinching his ear and sitting him in the corner). We didn't point fingers without bringing the conversation back to love.
I can give you details if you wish to know how I went from point A to B. I could not use threats, because I knew he would get anxious and start tearing down the marriage. He was whimpering in his sleep. That pained me the most.
Remember open relationships are not mainstream. A small percentage of the population engages in them, which means we have a lot of educating to do to win our SOs over to an open mindset.
Anxiety and depression can lead to sexual anorexia. If you add low T to that-- OOPS. Stress also will make the adrenals malfunction and not produce testosterone.
Fast forward, my husband has sent me flowers again. I can cuddle with him again. But I do get sex and intimacy outside the marriage once or twice a week. Husband doesn't like it, but he said he accepts it.
When you see him passive-aggressively tearing down the relationship, meet him with love. It will not be easy. The best choice I made was to not do things to tear down the marriage. I coddled him while he was healing. The effort was worth it, but time consuming.
If I may, you don't have time for Marianne Williamson's book. Even though it is a good book, it won't help you as much as a non-monogamy book like Opening Up will. Your meditations should be filled with positive direction/visualization.
Focus on the jealousy section and boundaries/rules. My husband didn't participate much. It was too overwhelming. I made sensible boundaries, then followed through. I informed him of my actions that would protect him. I did cross my boundaries, then I got back to them.
The posters on my thread, the core members of the group, saved my marriage. Thank you all. KDT and Dusty put a lot of time into me. Look at the posts that the members write. They are well-thought-out.
I only reveal that I am with MM to my husband once every blue moon. It is too rough on him. Your BF will negotiate sex back into the relationship temporarily, but it won't last unless he pulls out of this state, which won't be soon, because he is now dealing with shock, anxiety and depression.
YMMV. Take what you like and leave the rest. ((hugs)))
SweetSensations
New member
Thinking outside the box
What are her choices that would empower her and put her in a position of maybe salvaging her relationship?
Did you ever notice a couple who was having an affair in your office? Their NRE or new relationship energy is very hard to hide from others (oxytocin high/adrenalin high, when they are in each other's presence). Your BF caught you in that high when you were with your new beau. Your BF might translate that to, "Oh no you don't! I saw you oozing with giddy-girl syndrome around him. Oh hell no. He doesn't get to take you away from me."
In any of the books you will see that the r'ships that survive will have a hierarchy. The couple at the top making decisions for the rest of the people in the bottom corners. The mistake here is the new beau made the decision with you for your r'ship. Bad news, but it can be cleaned up. I hope BF doesn't know that.
Why do I think I was mostly successful? Hubs and I were making decisions for the rest of the r'ship. Mostly I was, empowered with more info, with him in mind. Reassurance goes a long way to help the r'ship, but is short lived, so use the broken record technique, with a loving tone.
Since your BF is feeling really threatened by your beau, seeing the twinkle and new life he brought to the damsel in distress, I will make this suggestion, if you can follow through. He is correct to think, "Ruh roh, he is trying to take her away." Most of society would think this.
One suggestion that may be out of the box, but not unheard of: if your goal is really to get sex and intimacy with a neat man, you can get that soon. If you want to get sex and intimacy with your new beau with more acceptance, add more men to the mix. Be a hotwife. I have a mentor who a couple enlisted to basically have sex with the wife. This man is unable to have sex,but does not want to take away his wife's pleasure of sex. He enlisted my mentor because he is safe. He is in a sexless marriage where he dearly loves his wife. This man doesn't allow his wife to see a man more than once a month.
I mean, she sees a different guy each week, skipping some weeks. Remember I talked about boundaries and rules? So she rotates a few really fine lovers. It is easier for us women to collect men. Although my mentor has sex and intimacy with three lovely sweet women. Has been doing so for many years. Openly.
I wish I had gone this direction. I think my hubs would have been more comfy with this, rather than just one guy for several yrs. I have had 2 separate men, because I wanted sex 2-4 times a month. Now I see MM almost every week.
How did I reassure hubs? I got my opposites in ways, and told him that is what I would search for. I would be searching for my opposite to be less threatening to my hubs. All the little things do help to reassure him.
MM is the opposite, politically, and in other ways, a business man who travels to me. He is a certain type hubs knows I have never gone out with, He was a literal model I plucked off the streets. (I won't let H see his pics. He does not know MM was a model.)
I looked for a sweet, amenable, touchy-feely man who was open to exploring new sensations while mattress dancing. A mix of gentle with some rough manliness.
I had originally started to hang out in an erotica/fetish/lifestyle forum. I told myself that was going to be my sex-- watching others in action and dreaming. I was no longer ignoring romantic movie scenes.
I was starving. I told H to have one of his colleagues that he trusted to shag me. NOPE. His morning smile melted into a frown of silence. Then one morning, without planning, I said "Lovey, I am going to step out of the marriage for sex.
I was shaking in my boots. I felt hot.
He said, "Do, and that is where your r'ship will lie."
A therapist friend asked, "What did you do? That is very emasculating."
I went to therapy to clean it up, best I could. I told hubs my goal was sex. Only sex. I had no clue how much intimacy I needed. I don't reveal my intimacy needs to him. He knows how I am. I feel it is a burden to his psyche and my own.
I asked MM if he could handle me being in love and attached to him, but we each knew our place in the r'ship.
Hubs would always be number one. His wife and family and work would always be his number one. He agreed it would be possible to be in love, but be someone else's love, as well. It was neat to have different men who cared.
Hubs said, "Wait! That is embarrassing. What do I tell ppl who see you out with others?"
I said: "You tell them that you allow me to go out with others for male fellowship, as always. That is what you tell them."
Only then did he start to accept this more. What will I tell him when he asks about MM again? I will tell him, "Silly, you know I will have several men in my life to get myself some sex, if I can." I can reiterate my boundaries that I have in place with MM.
If your BF is like my hubs, I would start a search to get the focus of new beau and put it on sex. The search was exhilarating. I got 120-ish responses in one day. Not all quality. Put a phrase in that lets them know they have read your profile. Throw away the others.
I told hubs I would not be revealing details because it felt weird to me and I did not want to hurt him. If he was gung ho about my finding sex outside, I would have revealed more gladly. He mostly lived inside his head in silence, clamming up. Will he be more anxious about this one dude or more anxious about seeking several dudes? You tell us.
TellBF that this Valentine's Day is much more important to you than others, and you need to both plan something extraordinary for each other. A weekend trip with intimacy, like his and her massages, and no sex, so he feels safe.
After Christmas and Valentine's Day, the dating sites are littered with people for a reason. They are feeling unwanted and lonely. Ashley Madison gets it biggest boom of the year.
Tell BF to spend no less than 5 hrs in prep for Valentine's Day. You do the same. Don't fall into the trap of "If he loved me he would." He is incapable of being nurturing right now. He is lost. My H dove into books and ran so much he hurt his knee and needed surgery. Our world was caving in on us temporarily.
Just ideas that may not fit. I think poly folks and hotwives can teach us a lot. Look them up.
Remember that people don't reveal all their private sexual rendezvous. Why should we have to? It hurts our mate. I told hubs I would reveal what I was comfortable with, but mostly I would sooner or later go into hiding as much as I could so I would not hurt him or myself. I won't reveal all my sexual details and intimacy. Then I went into an underground cheater/philanderer's forum, even though I am open.
DADT spared my hubs a lot of anxiety. Wow, who knew? He wanted to ignore what I was doing as much as he could. Finally, I figured out not to rub it in his face. That is what he felt I was doing. I was just trying to be honest so he would not worry about me. I even told him I was feeling so uncomfortable that I would lie to not hurt his feelings, so don't ask me about certain details, unless he wanted a generic lie. I would not make a good philanderer and I don't feel comfy revealing what I do.
I tried, "Hey love, just calling to let ya know I am with my friend at the hotel," but it turned into, "When I say I am going for ice cream, I am uncomfortable and will not be telling you any other details," which led to, "I am going to the grocery store in the next couple of days. Do you want anything?"
He felt so powerless in this situation that he started telling me, "No, you can't watch that TV program. No, we are not going to buy that!"
"Lovey, will you do me a favor?"
"No."
He moved out of the master bedroom. I cried, and then went and tucked him in at night and just laid with him.
MM told me, "Oh no, he is feeling helpless. Hope he pulls through."
He gradually came out of his terrible twos and back to being my loving hubs. He did this off and on for about a yr.
Some will say, that is too much work. Yes, but I had gone over a decade of trying. So another yr of hard work was a drop in the bucket. I have been with MM for several yrs when I had originally agreed to go 6 months and check back in to see if we would return to sex.
For me, instead of getting in trouble for an affair, I got in trouble upfront by telling him my intentions. I was getting sex one way or another. Then it gradually got better.
If someone knows of other examples of sexless marriages that worked/didn't, let me know. Not many models around and sometimes I am lost. I think it is the most lonely feeling in the world, showing love through intimacy and sex without reciprocation.
If this does not help you, maybe it will help someone else.
An important note is that it took several months to find a neat man after my mentor said: "Dump your pen pals and get serious about finding a guy."
This book was one I wanted this year because it rated higher than others. http://www.amazon.com/reader/0991399706?_encoding=UTF8&query=don
More Than Two: A practical guide to ethical polyamory
Surely we won't all agree on a path. There is no right or wrong.
What if you set up a therapy appointment and go in alone? Bring him in later. Make sure the therapist is poly-friendly. They have a list here. If not, consider doing therapy over the phone, if covered. Remember that a therapist will ask him what he wants, and respect his wishes, after pointing out the consequences for scenarios.
What are her choices that would empower her and put her in a position of maybe salvaging her relationship?
Did you ever notice a couple who was having an affair in your office? Their NRE or new relationship energy is very hard to hide from others (oxytocin high/adrenalin high, when they are in each other's presence). Your BF caught you in that high when you were with your new beau. Your BF might translate that to, "Oh no you don't! I saw you oozing with giddy-girl syndrome around him. Oh hell no. He doesn't get to take you away from me."
In any of the books you will see that the r'ships that survive will have a hierarchy. The couple at the top making decisions for the rest of the people in the bottom corners. The mistake here is the new beau made the decision with you for your r'ship. Bad news, but it can be cleaned up. I hope BF doesn't know that.
Why do I think I was mostly successful? Hubs and I were making decisions for the rest of the r'ship. Mostly I was, empowered with more info, with him in mind. Reassurance goes a long way to help the r'ship, but is short lived, so use the broken record technique, with a loving tone.
Since your BF is feeling really threatened by your beau, seeing the twinkle and new life he brought to the damsel in distress, I will make this suggestion, if you can follow through. He is correct to think, "Ruh roh, he is trying to take her away." Most of society would think this.
One suggestion that may be out of the box, but not unheard of: if your goal is really to get sex and intimacy with a neat man, you can get that soon. If you want to get sex and intimacy with your new beau with more acceptance, add more men to the mix. Be a hotwife. I have a mentor who a couple enlisted to basically have sex with the wife. This man is unable to have sex,but does not want to take away his wife's pleasure of sex. He enlisted my mentor because he is safe. He is in a sexless marriage where he dearly loves his wife. This man doesn't allow his wife to see a man more than once a month.
I mean, she sees a different guy each week, skipping some weeks. Remember I talked about boundaries and rules? So she rotates a few really fine lovers. It is easier for us women to collect men. Although my mentor has sex and intimacy with three lovely sweet women. Has been doing so for many years. Openly.
I wish I had gone this direction. I think my hubs would have been more comfy with this, rather than just one guy for several yrs. I have had 2 separate men, because I wanted sex 2-4 times a month. Now I see MM almost every week.
How did I reassure hubs? I got my opposites in ways, and told him that is what I would search for. I would be searching for my opposite to be less threatening to my hubs. All the little things do help to reassure him.
MM is the opposite, politically, and in other ways, a business man who travels to me. He is a certain type hubs knows I have never gone out with, He was a literal model I plucked off the streets. (I won't let H see his pics. He does not know MM was a model.)
I looked for a sweet, amenable, touchy-feely man who was open to exploring new sensations while mattress dancing. A mix of gentle with some rough manliness.
I had originally started to hang out in an erotica/fetish/lifestyle forum. I told myself that was going to be my sex-- watching others in action and dreaming. I was no longer ignoring romantic movie scenes.
I was starving. I told H to have one of his colleagues that he trusted to shag me. NOPE. His morning smile melted into a frown of silence. Then one morning, without planning, I said "Lovey, I am going to step out of the marriage for sex.
I was shaking in my boots. I felt hot.
He said, "Do, and that is where your r'ship will lie."
A therapist friend asked, "What did you do? That is very emasculating."
I went to therapy to clean it up, best I could. I told hubs my goal was sex. Only sex. I had no clue how much intimacy I needed. I don't reveal my intimacy needs to him. He knows how I am. I feel it is a burden to his psyche and my own.
I asked MM if he could handle me being in love and attached to him, but we each knew our place in the r'ship.
Hubs would always be number one. His wife and family and work would always be his number one. He agreed it would be possible to be in love, but be someone else's love, as well. It was neat to have different men who cared.
Hubs said, "Wait! That is embarrassing. What do I tell ppl who see you out with others?"
I said: "You tell them that you allow me to go out with others for male fellowship, as always. That is what you tell them."
Only then did he start to accept this more. What will I tell him when he asks about MM again? I will tell him, "Silly, you know I will have several men in my life to get myself some sex, if I can." I can reiterate my boundaries that I have in place with MM.
If your BF is like my hubs, I would start a search to get the focus of new beau and put it on sex. The search was exhilarating. I got 120-ish responses in one day. Not all quality. Put a phrase in that lets them know they have read your profile. Throw away the others.
I told hubs I would not be revealing details because it felt weird to me and I did not want to hurt him. If he was gung ho about my finding sex outside, I would have revealed more gladly. He mostly lived inside his head in silence, clamming up. Will he be more anxious about this one dude or more anxious about seeking several dudes? You tell us.
TellBF that this Valentine's Day is much more important to you than others, and you need to both plan something extraordinary for each other. A weekend trip with intimacy, like his and her massages, and no sex, so he feels safe.
After Christmas and Valentine's Day, the dating sites are littered with people for a reason. They are feeling unwanted and lonely. Ashley Madison gets it biggest boom of the year.
Tell BF to spend no less than 5 hrs in prep for Valentine's Day. You do the same. Don't fall into the trap of "If he loved me he would." He is incapable of being nurturing right now. He is lost. My H dove into books and ran so much he hurt his knee and needed surgery. Our world was caving in on us temporarily.
Just ideas that may not fit. I think poly folks and hotwives can teach us a lot. Look them up.
Remember that people don't reveal all their private sexual rendezvous. Why should we have to? It hurts our mate. I told hubs I would reveal what I was comfortable with, but mostly I would sooner or later go into hiding as much as I could so I would not hurt him or myself. I won't reveal all my sexual details and intimacy. Then I went into an underground cheater/philanderer's forum, even though I am open.
DADT spared my hubs a lot of anxiety. Wow, who knew? He wanted to ignore what I was doing as much as he could. Finally, I figured out not to rub it in his face. That is what he felt I was doing. I was just trying to be honest so he would not worry about me. I even told him I was feeling so uncomfortable that I would lie to not hurt his feelings, so don't ask me about certain details, unless he wanted a generic lie. I would not make a good philanderer and I don't feel comfy revealing what I do.
I tried, "Hey love, just calling to let ya know I am with my friend at the hotel," but it turned into, "When I say I am going for ice cream, I am uncomfortable and will not be telling you any other details," which led to, "I am going to the grocery store in the next couple of days. Do you want anything?"
He felt so powerless in this situation that he started telling me, "No, you can't watch that TV program. No, we are not going to buy that!"
"Lovey, will you do me a favor?"
"No."
He moved out of the master bedroom. I cried, and then went and tucked him in at night and just laid with him.
MM told me, "Oh no, he is feeling helpless. Hope he pulls through."
He gradually came out of his terrible twos and back to being my loving hubs. He did this off and on for about a yr.
Some will say, that is too much work. Yes, but I had gone over a decade of trying. So another yr of hard work was a drop in the bucket. I have been with MM for several yrs when I had originally agreed to go 6 months and check back in to see if we would return to sex.
For me, instead of getting in trouble for an affair, I got in trouble upfront by telling him my intentions. I was getting sex one way or another. Then it gradually got better.
If someone knows of other examples of sexless marriages that worked/didn't, let me know. Not many models around and sometimes I am lost. I think it is the most lonely feeling in the world, showing love through intimacy and sex without reciprocation.
If this does not help you, maybe it will help someone else.
An important note is that it took several months to find a neat man after my mentor said: "Dump your pen pals and get serious about finding a guy."
This book was one I wanted this year because it rated higher than others. http://www.amazon.com/reader/0991399706?_encoding=UTF8&query=don
More Than Two: A practical guide to ethical polyamory
Surely we won't all agree on a path. There is no right or wrong.
What if you set up a therapy appointment and go in alone? Bring him in later. Make sure the therapist is poly-friendly. They have a list here. If not, consider doing therapy over the phone, if covered. Remember that a therapist will ask him what he wants, and respect his wishes, after pointing out the consequences for scenarios.
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SweetSensations, what a story! The lengths we women will go to, to nurture and protect our men and their fragile egos! It boggles the mind.
I went through 30 years trying to make things work with my ex-husband, so I know. My/our therapist said I was saying and doing all the right things, and my ex wasn't feeling it or believing it. I still hung on for 6 more years! And then finally gave up. We weren't entirely sexless though. It was other things. He'd fuck me, but passive aggressively wouldn't kiss me, show PDAs like holding hands, say he loved me, or call me "honey" anymore.
Anyway, Elizabeth! You deserve better.
Let me say it again:
YOU DESERVE BETTER!!!
You've put your own needs aside for way too long. Besides no sex, you are also regretting not being a wife and a mother! You're "just" a gf and have no babies, and you're 40 years old. At least you should be getting some good sex.
Your BF isn't acting like a man; he's acting like a coddled toddler. Take responsibility for your own actions, though. You're the coddler. You're spoiling him. Narcissists like your husband gaslight their partners (look up gaslighting, look up narcissism). They also get you to carry their feelings. They have no moral or ethical center.
He's a drunk, he won't take his testosterone, now he's limping around on a hurt ankle!
Honey, you deserve better. Don't wait til you're 54 like I did. Go get your happiness now. There is life to be led!
You say you love your BF, he makes you... laugh? That depressive guy?? You forget what real love is, between equals, between people who feel your happiness is as important as their own.
I started over at 54 and never regretted it once. I am having the time of my life with new partners, and with polyamory. (But at least I also got to do the wife and mother thing, and now I am a new grandmother to boot.)
Your "boy"friend may be passive aggressive, but to be honest, you're being passive. Get out of this "poor pitiful me: mode and do something. Get therapy. Get a new boyfriend, see your platonic male friends, have some fun! Something!!
Your BF is "self destructive" anyway. You're his partner, not his mom. He is also a grown-ass adult.
Please stop coddling him and take care of yourself. You deserve it.
I had an online relationship (after my ex-h and I separated) whose wife hadn't given him sex in three years. We met once, made out, did oral sex. He was honest. She knew he was going to do it. Lo and behold, once he'd gotten sex from me, she went back to giving him sex once a week. It was a start. Then she decided she was a lesbian. She got a gf. He got a gf too. They still live together, are still married, but it's as friends only, and co-parents, and raising goats and vegetables. But they get their true intimacy from their new partners and are living authentic lives!!
So, make changes. It's up to you. Bf isn't gonna do it. Once you start making changes in your life, just see what it does for him! It could be he needs a crisis to change. That is often the case.
Go make it happen!
I went through 30 years trying to make things work with my ex-husband, so I know. My/our therapist said I was saying and doing all the right things, and my ex wasn't feeling it or believing it. I still hung on for 6 more years! And then finally gave up. We weren't entirely sexless though. It was other things. He'd fuck me, but passive aggressively wouldn't kiss me, show PDAs like holding hands, say he loved me, or call me "honey" anymore.
Anyway, Elizabeth! You deserve better.
Let me say it again:
YOU DESERVE BETTER!!!
You've put your own needs aside for way too long. Besides no sex, you are also regretting not being a wife and a mother! You're "just" a gf and have no babies, and you're 40 years old. At least you should be getting some good sex.
Your BF isn't acting like a man; he's acting like a coddled toddler. Take responsibility for your own actions, though. You're the coddler. You're spoiling him. Narcissists like your husband gaslight their partners (look up gaslighting, look up narcissism). They also get you to carry their feelings. They have no moral or ethical center.
He's a drunk, he won't take his testosterone, now he's limping around on a hurt ankle!
Honey, you deserve better. Don't wait til you're 54 like I did. Go get your happiness now. There is life to be led!
You say you love your BF, he makes you... laugh? That depressive guy?? You forget what real love is, between equals, between people who feel your happiness is as important as their own.
I started over at 54 and never regretted it once. I am having the time of my life with new partners, and with polyamory. (But at least I also got to do the wife and mother thing, and now I am a new grandmother to boot.)
Your "boy"friend may be passive aggressive, but to be honest, you're being passive. Get out of this "poor pitiful me: mode and do something. Get therapy. Get a new boyfriend, see your platonic male friends, have some fun! Something!!
Your BF is "self destructive" anyway. You're his partner, not his mom. He is also a grown-ass adult.
Please stop coddling him and take care of yourself. You deserve it.
I had an online relationship (after my ex-h and I separated) whose wife hadn't given him sex in three years. We met once, made out, did oral sex. He was honest. She knew he was going to do it. Lo and behold, once he'd gotten sex from me, she went back to giving him sex once a week. It was a start. Then she decided she was a lesbian. She got a gf. He got a gf too. They still live together, are still married, but it's as friends only, and co-parents, and raising goats and vegetables. But they get their true intimacy from their new partners and are living authentic lives!!
So, make changes. It's up to you. Bf isn't gonna do it. Once you start making changes in your life, just see what it does for him! It could be he needs a crisis to change. That is often the case.
Go make it happen!
SweetSensations
New member
She isn't leaving just yet. She needs to see a therapist alone.
She said she wasn’t leaving him several times. She also said she was not financially in a position to leave just yet, but was saving up money in case.
The binge drinking has been a challenge for a yr. He needs therapy and may just be a life challenge.
Who can determine what he and she needs? A therapist. This guy was amenable and reasonable. I think if she leaves she will just come back, hence my strong recommendation to see a therapist even if he doesn't go at first.
She should interview therapists to make sure they don’t have an agenda and have a healthy r'ship themselves. A therapist suggested that I record my sessions, and any therapist who would not let me record should be dropped.
Why did I share how I was able to de-escalate my situation? No matter what, she doesn’t need to sabotage the r'ship on the way out of it. It can escalate and get very destructive if she participates. She also has a good chance of getting into a healthy r'ship if she goes to therapy on her own, rather than just leaving with little money into the arms of another man.
Intimacy came back for my hubs. The therapist said my hubs, unlike hers, has a huge sexual block that he is not willing to discuss at this time. I thought I was going to exit my marriage sooner than later.
Several therapists determined that it would be very difficult to find a man like my hubs, but it is possible. Who knows my final direction? But if I choose to, with therapy, I will dismantle in a healthy manner.
Hubs has healthy communication in other areas, but not this one. He was willing to compromise in therapy via triangulation. He didn’t go to therapy on a regular basis. We have assignments and he followed through, for the most part. I mostly worked on the lack of sex.
It is an ongoing process. We check in periodically. He does well in society. My girlfriends and his colleagues adore him. We are financially well off with property investments, mostly my doing. He has other investments. Our communication is respectful and loving once again, with bumps in the road. My hubs, like her BF, shares in the responsibility of household chores and maintenance.
I don’t know if her BF is rare gold. I know my hubs is.
I know for a while I didn’t care if hubs' low T got cleaned up. I wanted sex right then. I was willing to work on everything else later. I told him I was stepping out of the r'ship for sex out of desperation.
A highly educated therapist/pastor friend told me that he did not believe that people were hardwired for monogamy. I started researching. Boom. Sure enough. That got the ball rolling. I saw this therapist again. He also said, "Do you understand that if you believe in god he would not want you to go without sex for the rest of your life?" I actively started looking and researching.
I bet there is a tiny part of her that doesn't want low T cleaned up before she gets to having fun with her new beau. I don't blame her. It really is quite fun to have 2 men, and the oxytocin high of a new one is quite intoxicating. She put a short time frame on it because she is done, rightfully so, and has been patient long enough. The new beau gave her courage and is willing to recharge her system. Maybe even take her hand if it doesn't work out.
Like me, she gets sex either way, and soon. Maybe with two, in time. Poly is my fantasy and I may move in that direction one day. I know it was easy enough to get two guys to accept that they would both be shagging me, until one became more attached. I also had a lot of leverage and it made it easier to get sex and intimacy outside.
A therapist will teach her how to rock the boat gently. The book will teach her how to convince her BF to accept sex outside the r'ship.
She said she wasn’t leaving him several times. She also said she was not financially in a position to leave just yet, but was saving up money in case.
The binge drinking has been a challenge for a yr. He needs therapy and may just be a life challenge.
Who can determine what he and she needs? A therapist. This guy was amenable and reasonable. I think if she leaves she will just come back, hence my strong recommendation to see a therapist even if he doesn't go at first.
She should interview therapists to make sure they don’t have an agenda and have a healthy r'ship themselves. A therapist suggested that I record my sessions, and any therapist who would not let me record should be dropped.
Why did I share how I was able to de-escalate my situation? No matter what, she doesn’t need to sabotage the r'ship on the way out of it. It can escalate and get very destructive if she participates. She also has a good chance of getting into a healthy r'ship if she goes to therapy on her own, rather than just leaving with little money into the arms of another man.
Intimacy came back for my hubs. The therapist said my hubs, unlike hers, has a huge sexual block that he is not willing to discuss at this time. I thought I was going to exit my marriage sooner than later.
Several therapists determined that it would be very difficult to find a man like my hubs, but it is possible. Who knows my final direction? But if I choose to, with therapy, I will dismantle in a healthy manner.
Hubs has healthy communication in other areas, but not this one. He was willing to compromise in therapy via triangulation. He didn’t go to therapy on a regular basis. We have assignments and he followed through, for the most part. I mostly worked on the lack of sex.
It is an ongoing process. We check in periodically. He does well in society. My girlfriends and his colleagues adore him. We are financially well off with property investments, mostly my doing. He has other investments. Our communication is respectful and loving once again, with bumps in the road. My hubs, like her BF, shares in the responsibility of household chores and maintenance.
I don’t know if her BF is rare gold. I know my hubs is.
I see a hope for her if she goes into therapy on her own, even if he enters therapy later. A therapist needs to assess her situation even after his low T is cleaned up.
I know for a while I didn’t care if hubs' low T got cleaned up. I wanted sex right then. I was willing to work on everything else later. I told him I was stepping out of the r'ship for sex out of desperation.
A highly educated therapist/pastor friend told me that he did not believe that people were hardwired for monogamy. I started researching. Boom. Sure enough. That got the ball rolling. I saw this therapist again. He also said, "Do you understand that if you believe in god he would not want you to go without sex for the rest of your life?" I actively started looking and researching.
I bet there is a tiny part of her that doesn't want low T cleaned up before she gets to having fun with her new beau. I don't blame her. It really is quite fun to have 2 men, and the oxytocin high of a new one is quite intoxicating. She put a short time frame on it because she is done, rightfully so, and has been patient long enough. The new beau gave her courage and is willing to recharge her system. Maybe even take her hand if it doesn't work out.
Like me, she gets sex either way, and soon. Maybe with two, in time. Poly is my fantasy and I may move in that direction one day. I know it was easy enough to get two guys to accept that they would both be shagging me, until one became more attached. I also had a lot of leverage and it made it easier to get sex and intimacy outside.
A therapist will teach her how to rock the boat gently. The book will teach her how to convince her BF to accept sex outside the r'ship.
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