Advice on relationship

[LaminarFlow]

Most likely the reason why Sage can do overnights is because she isn't much as a "threat" to Mulie as you, because she lives overseas and is leaving again. AKA not based where you are, AKA expecting him to come safely home.

If he does overnights with you that might almost look like a co-primary and perhaps too close of "losing" her primary spot.

 

[Raiko]

Do you know how often the overnights are with Sage?

 

[Musso]

Most likely the reason why Sage can do overnights is because she isn't much as a "threat" to Mulie as you, because she lives overseas and is leaving again. AKA not based where you are, AKA expecting him to come safely home.

If he does overnights with you that might almost look like a co-primary and perhaps too close of "losing" her primary spot.

Ha, I think you're spot on! Of course it would still be good to discuss with Bass to see what's going on but this would be a good thing to validate with him.

But at the end of the day, you'll have to decide whether or not you're happy with the constraints this poly/mono relationship might have. In a way, it sounds like Bass has been firm enough by saying it's not possible to do overnight. It looks like the problem is that he should be better at explaining why and potentially reconsider it if he didn't realize how important it was for you.

 

[Cece]

Do you know how often the overnights are with Sage?

It's inconsistent, but could be 1, 2 or even 3 depending on the duration of her stay. She has her own home here as well. During our time of dating she has only been with him once and they had one overnight, and ofcourse has overnights when he goes to visit her.

 

[Cece]

Most likely the reason why Sage can do overnights is because she isn't much as a "threat" to Mulie as you, because she lives overseas and is leaving again. AKA not based where you are, AKA expecting him to come safely home.

If he does overnights with you that might almost look like a co-primary and perhaps too close of "losing" her primary spot.

You're probably right and I have to speak with him about this.

 

[GalaGirl]

• He agreed. If one tells me that he does overnights with another partner, I don't think I need to question much for overnights (or so I thought??).
• If one tells me they want something longterm with intend to build, overnights are automatically the baseline.

But that's the thing with dating someone. You have to actually ask. Can't assume what you think is "basic" is what they think is "basic." Or that the person will do all the same things with all partners. It's part of the "getting to know" you process.

• Do you think I should talk to Sage about it? From our mutual people, she seems like she does poly well and is willing to talk.
• Bass does parallel with Sage and me.

No. You are not dating Sage. You are dating Bass. Talk to Bass directly. Do not involve metas in your dyad. It is not keeping things parallel if you involve other people.

If Bass told you one thing, but does another, or you assumed some things were basic, but they turned out not to be, you get to decide if you want to update your expectations to match the reality of what he can actually do/offer you, or if you'd rather drop him because it's not what you seek/not compatible/not enough to make it worth your time. It's all up to you.

Galagirl

 

[Jeambo]

I respectfully disagree that it would be a good beginning.

I’m not leaving my cozy house to sleep on a couch in some monogamous lady's home with kids afoot. What FOR?

I’m not going to spend the night in a house with a nesting partner and kids when I’m only three months into dating someone — especially when the nesting partner is monogamous. That’s intrusive, not my responsibility, not my comfort zone, and not an appropriate workaround for him being unable to offer overnights.

If he can’t provide the time, privacy, or logistics for the type of connection I want, then we simply aren’t compatible.

I’m not going to shoehorn myself into their household to make up for his lack of availability. I’m not going to pretzel myself around him. I'm not into getting scraps.

GG

Sorry for the wrong advice!

My intention is very simple. If I want something, then I fight for it.

I read the replies you've made to others. I don't understand why Sage can have overnights but you don't. It seems that Bass just don't want to do that.

Still best wishes for you!

 

[Cece]

Sorry for the wrong advice!

My intention is very simple that if I want something them I fight for it.

I read the replies you've made to others. I don't understand why Sage can have overnights but you don't. It seems that Bass just don't want to do that.

Still best wishes for you!

I agree, and would want to have fair treatment. But ofcourse I do not want to be in someone's house if I'm not welcome. Mulie has not been open for logistic communications. Her initial introduction over the phone was rather cold, yet supportive.

 

[Cece]

• He agreed. If one tells me that he does overnights with another partner, I don't think I need to question much for overnights (or so I thought??).
• If one tells me they want something longterm with intend to build, overnights are automatically the baseline.

But that's the thing with dating someone. You have to actually ask. Can't assume what you think is "basic" is what they think is "basic." Or that the person will do all the same things with all partners. It's part of the "getting to know" you process.

I did ask about his relationship with Sage and would like to have the same kind of dynamic. That would include overnights. He agreed.

• Do you think I should talk to Sage about it? From our mutual people, she seems like she does poly well and is willing to talk.
• Bass does parallel with Sage and me.

No. You are not dating Sage. You are dating Bass. Talk to Bass directly. Do not involve metas in your dyad. It is not keeping things parallel if you involve other people.

Sage does kitchen poly herself with her other partners, and I've heard from our mutual poly people she would want to be introduced by Bass, but he hasn't made time for it. We have a poly friend in common that is very open about everything, incl Sage to poly friend, and she has been asking about me and wondering how I am.

If Bass told you one thing and does another, or you assumed some things wee basic but they turned out not to be, you get to decide if you want to update your expectations to match the reality of what he can actually do/offer you, or if you'd rather drop him because it's not what you seek/not compatible/not enough to make it worth your time. It's all up to you.

If someone overpromises but underdelivers, that is on them to fix. I will be seeing with Bass tomorrow evening.

 

[Magdlyn]

In reference to my post above, which you did not address, it seems to me that Bass may have bit off more than he can chew.

Also, I am not sure how long he has been dating Sage... Perhaps she had to work up to overnights for more than three months. The children are only 5 and 8. That is a high-demand age, nannies or not. There is still lots of care involved in raising them, with two parents both working full time. The schedule has to be tight. There may not be much wiggle room.

I've been doing polyamory since 1999 (limited success at first) and actually living it full time since 2009. I've dated many. I understand Bass promised you, maybe not the moon, but perhaps a nice tropical island, but it seems his reality won't allow even that. People say and do things under the influence of NRE (excitement, lust, hormones) that they just can't deliver on.

While having nannies is great in many ways, of course, one doesn't ideally want the kids to be raised solely by nannies and forget who their parents are. I'd "think of the children," instead of just myself, as I also suggested above.

I hear that you tried hard to "vet" Bass at first, to make sure what he could promise in a relationship, and if that sounded close to what you want. (I tried that too, but would realize in short order, what a prospective dating partner said or did on a first or second date could vary widely from reality when the rubber hit the road.) But him wearing a wedding ring and yet not really making a point that he was married with children at first, might've been the first small red flag, which indicated what has been happening now. He might just be stretched too thin. I hope not. Maybe you'll be able to have an occasional overnight sometime in the future.

In my polycule, both my partners (and my gf's bf) are of childbearing/childrearing age, but have not had kids. I had kids, but they are of course fully grown now, so while I still have responsibilities to them, they are far less than what a 5 or 8, or even 16-year old needs. So we can all arrange to have overnights, or even consecutive days together, with no one else to consider but ourselves and non-kid-related life stuff.

 

[Cece]

In reference to my post above, which you did not address, it seems to me that Bass may have bit off more than he can chew.

Also, I am not sure how long he has been dating Sage... Perhaps she had to work up to overnights for more than three months. The children are only 5 and 8. That is a high-demand age, nannies or not. There is still lots of care involved in raising them, with two parents both working full time. The schedule has to be tight. There may not be much wiggle room.

I've been doing polyamory since 1999 (limited success at first) and actually living it full time since 2009. I've dated many. I understand Bass promised you, maybe not the moon, but perhaps a nice tropical island, but it seems his reality won't allow even that. People say and do things under the influence of NRE (excitement, lust, hormones) that they just can't deliver on.

While having nannies is great in many ways, of course, one doesn't ideally want the kids to be raised solely by nannies and forget who their parents are. I'd "think of the children," instead of just myself, as I also suggested above.

I hear that you tried hard to "vet" Bass at first, to make sure what he could promise in a relationship, and if that sounded close to what you want. (I tried that too, but would realize in short order, what a prospective dating partner said or did on a first or second date could vary widely from reality when the rubber hit the road.) But him wearing a wedding ring and yet not really making a point that he was married with children at first, might've been the first small red flag, which indicated what has been happening now. He might just be stretched too thin. I hope not. Maybe you'll be able to have an occasional overnight sometime in the future.

In my polycule, both my partners (and my gf's bf) are of childbearing/childrearing age, but have not had kids. I had kids, but they are of course fully grown now, so while I still have responsibilities to them, they are far less than what a 5 or 8, or even 16-year old needs. So we can all arrange to have overnights, or even consecutive days together, with no one else to consider but ourselves and non-kid-related life stuff.

I have read your story, it's informative, but it doesn't look close to mine. Thank you for sharing.
Bass is not running away to a new girl friend from his household duties because they "just opened up." It has been many years of them doing non-monogamy, and minimum 5 years of polyamory so with Sage before the youngest was conceived. Don't know exactly when. I can ask if those details are important?? From my POV it wasn't, at the time. It seemed "secure" enough??

They have a hybrid WFH structure and see their kids plenty, they're not strangers to their kids. They use nannies for additional help and not to replace them with time. So also in need for sports, solitude and more things. I have a meta that sees her kids less than they do and she doesn't have help except from daycare and occasionally her parents.

So from my perspective it looked organized, asked fair enough questions about his situation safe enough for me to dive in so I don't think it's really crazy to expect to make space for me if you've made agreements with me in the first place. It's unfair to not follow your commitments. I expect the same from friends and family, why would I hold someone else to a different standard.

The wife vs partner mentioning does question me a little, I will ask him this evening what these terms really mean to him. He told me he had an exwife in the initial stages of talking, so I don't really know what the problem is.

 

[edwardblackwood]

Why say that you can? There seems to be a lot of (mind)space for attention, wanting to check-in on me, just not physical-time.

Sounds like he’s trying to say he genuinely cares — that’s why he stays mentally present even when he’s short on physical time. He’s not ignoring you; he’s just juggling life and still trying to show up in the ways he can.

 

[Magdlyn]

I have read your story, it's informative, but it doesn't look close to mine. Thank you for sharing.

Sure. I still do see similarities, so I'm sorry my experiences didn't help.

Bass is not running away to a new girl friend from his household duties because they "just opened up." It has been many years of them doing non-monogamy, and minimum 5 years of polyamory. So he was with Sage before his youngest was conceived. I don't know exactly when. I can ask, if those details are important?? From my POV it wasn't, at the time. It seemed "secure" enough.

Right. He has managed to have a long-distance gf while being married and raising young children. I don't know how often he actually sees her, either when she's in his area, or when he goes to see her. Maybe it was infrequent enough that it didn't impact the family too much. But now, adding a third partner for him to the mix might've been the straw that broke the camel's back.

I personally can only handle two partners, and I don't have a demanding career or young children. I do need my me-time though. I didn't have energy to have more than one partner (my husband) when my kids were young. I did better when they were late teens, early 20s. But that's just me. Other poly folk do manage to do both simultaneously.

I take it you don't have kids. And Bass is your only local partner. Would you be interested in another local partner instead of, or as well as Bass? Someone who could happily spend the night on a regular basis?

They have a hybrid WFH structure and see their kids plenty. They're not strangers to their kids. They use nannies for additional help, and not to replace them with time. So also in need for sports, solitude and more things.

You mean Bass does sports and needs a certain amount of time alone? Maybe dating you has cut into his time for sports and me-time.

So from my perspective, it looked organized. I asked fair enough questions about his situation. It seemed safe enough for me to dive in. So I don't think it's really crazy to expect to make space for me if you've made agreements with me in the first place. It's unfair to not follow your commitments. I expect the same from friends and family. Why would I hold someone else to a different standard?

Yes, I totally agree with this. It's part of my point about him probably being optimistic because of his desire for you initially, but then ending up being stretched too thin.

The wife vs partner mentioning does question me a little, I will ask him this evening what these terms really mean to him. He told me he had an ex-wife in the initial stages of talking, so I don't really know what the problem is.

I hope our feedback has helped you clarify what you want to ask him in your upcoming talk(s). Good luck.

 

[Cece]

Sounds like he’s trying to say he genuinely cares — that’s why he stays mentally present even when he’s short on physical time. He’s not ignoring you; he’s just juggling life and still trying to show up in the ways he can.

I agree. Problem is that I have made it known that ample quality-time is my main love language. I don't even mind if he brings his work so we can just both spend time together while I do something else. If it's true that Mulie has problems with feeling replaced and nearing a co-primary, he should have not made these agreements with me. I expect people to organize their lives properly and fulfil their commitments.

 

[Cece]

Sure. I still do see similarities, so I'm sorry my experiences didn't help.

Right. He has managed to have a long-distance gf while being married and raising young children. I don't know how often he actually sees her, either when she's in his area, or when he goes to see her. Maybe it was infrequent enough that it didn't impact the family too much. But now, adding a third partner for him to the mix might've been the straw that broke the camel's back. I personally can only handle two partners, and I don't have a demanding career or young children. I do need my me-time though. I didn't have energy to have more than one partner (my husband) when my kids were young. I did better when they were late teens, early 20s. But that's just me. Other poly folk do manage to do both simultaneously.

In the three month time span, Sage has been back here once (one overnight) and he went to see her once for a week (incl worktrip).
I understand everyone handles things differently. It's the overpromising and underdelivering that irritates me.

I take it you don't have kids. And Bass is your only local partner. Would you be interested in another local partner instead of, or as well as Bass? Someone who could happily spend the night on a regular basis?

No kids, but I spend time with my metas kids if they come to visit. I've been with (George) for 11 years. He is "local", we see each other in the weekends. He lives 2 hours away. We used to live together until his work took him away two years ago. I was okay with not seeing anyone because I didn't have the time due work and like my alone time. I don't think I would be too interested in dating anyone else from Bass for now.

You mean Bass does sports and needs a certain amount of time alone? Maybe dating you has cut into his time for sports and me-time.

No they have nannies over so they can do their sports and other stuff.

Yes, I totally agree with this. It's part of my point about him probably being optimistic because of his desire for you initially, but then ending up being stretched too thin.

I hope our feedback has helped you clarify what you want to ask him in your upcoming talk(s). Good luck.

Thank you!

 

[Magdlyn]

In the three month time span, Sage has been back here once (one overnight), and he went to see her once for a week (incl work trip).

Thanks for sharing more information. It helps.

So, in three months, he spent one night at Sage's local place. And he went on one weeklong work trip and got to see her then. Two birds with one stone. Maybe his wife is okay with him combining the work trip with seeing Sage, since he'd be gone anyway. If he didn't have these work trips to Sage's other location, maybe he wouldn't be spending as many overnights with her as he is...

I understand everyone handles things differently. It's the overpromising and underdelivering that irritates me.

Yes, very frustrating!

No kids, but I spend time with my meta's kids if they come to visit.

Poly jargon: your metamour is your partner's partner (that's the technical definition). George is your partner, your SO, your OSO in comparison to Bass. Your metamours are Bass's wife and his gf Sage. Bass's metamour is George, and vice versa. And so on.

I hear you spend time with George's kids, but they aren't your bio kids and full-time loves and responsibility, like Bass's kids are to him and his wife.

I've been with (George) for 11 years. He is "local", we see each other in the weekends. He lives 2 hours away.

That's fairly local, but actually long distance, to me. I used to have to drive 45 minutes to see my partner Pixi, and that was too long distance for our comfort. Yet we did it for three years before we finally got a place together (because we are an amazing match). To me, local means, at most, 20 minutes away. More than that makes getting together much too difficult for me. I did it with Pixi (and others) in the past, but wouldn't do it again.

How far away is Bass from you?

My bf Aries lives in my town. We are truly lucky. We are a mere 10-minute drive apart. Pixi's OSO Malachi, is less than 15 minutes away from our house. It took us years (over a decade) to find the right other partners to have this lovely easy arrangement with. So, it wasn't actually luck, more like high standards and persistence/perseverance.

We used to live together until his work took him away two years ago.

I'm sorry that happened. But it is more bearable to be "long distance" (as I said, 2 hours is long distance to me) when you've had a very local or cohabiting relationship for several years already under your belts.

I was okay with not seeing anyone, because I didn't have the time, due to work and liking my alone time. I don't think I would be too interested in dating anyone else besides Bass for now.

So you get perhaps two overnights with George a week, and would like one to two overnights with Bass, as well. You thought he'd be able to do that, but it turns out he probably can't.

No, they have nannies over so they can do their sports and other stuff.

So besides young children, a wife, a demanding career, home care, maybe yard work, maybe pets(?), work travel, another long-term gf/partner (Sage), Bass is involved in sports and other stuff. Busy man, right? It sounds like it's all devolving into an offer of a once-a-week in-person date, no overnights, and just be checking in by phone otherwise? Maybe that's just not worth it to you; it's just not enough.

 

[Cece]

Thanks for sharing more information. It helps.

So, in three months, he spent one night at Sage's local place. And he went on one weeklong work trip and got to see her then. Two birds with one stone. Maybe his wife is okay with him combining the work trip with seeing Sage, since he'd be gone anyway. If he didn't have these work trips to Sage's other location, maybe he wouldn't be spending as many overnights with her as he is...

They're going to do weekend away for Sage and him anniversary after the holidays on some of the islands close by when she's back here, it is not included in a work trip. So I'm trying to make sense of his reasoning, place and what role I have.

Yes, very frustrating!

Poly jargon: your metamour is your partner's partner (that's the technical definition). George is your partner, your SO, your OSO in comparison to Bass. Your metamours are Bass's wife and his gf Sage. Bass's metamour is George, and vice versa. And so on.

I hear you spend time with George's kids, but they aren't your bio kids and full-time loves and responsibility, like Bass's kids are to him and his wife.

George and I don't have kids. The kids are from my meta with her partner, not George's, but they sometimes come over when they are in the city.

That's fairly local, but actually long distance, to me. I used to have to drive 45 minutes to see my partner Pixi, and that was too long distance for our comfort. Yet we did it for three years before we finally got a place together (because we are an amazing match). To me, local means, at most, 20 minutes away. More than that makes getting together much too difficult for me. I did it with Pixi, but wouldn't do it again.

45 min is local for me, I have to drive that 2-3 times a week to go to work. More than 2 hours would not be considered local for me as I wouldn't drive that daily commute. Did 1.5h once.

How far away is Bass from you?

Bass lives a 15 min walk from me.

My bf Aries lives in my town. We are truly lucky. We are a mere 10-minute drive apart.


I'm sorry that happened, but it is more bearable to be "long distance" (as I said, 2 hours is long distance to me) when you've had a very local or cohabiting relationship for several years already under your belts.

Somehow "local" seems more difficult indeed.

So you get perhaps two overnights with George a week, and would like one to two overnights with Bass, as well. You thought he'd be able to do that, but it turns out he probably can't.


So besides young children, a wife, a demanding career, home care, maybe yard work, maybe pets(?), work travel, another long-term gf/partner, he is involved in sports and other stuff. Busy man, right? It sounds like it's all devolving into an offer of a once-a-week in-person date, no overnights, and just be checking in by phone otherwise? Maybe that's just not worth it to you; it's just not enough.

They outsource a lot of their things. No pets, no yard. Hopefully everything will be clearer by tomorrow.

 

[Cece]

It was an interesting weekend. It seems a lot of his actions are based on what Mulie (and Sage) are doing. Mulie was away for the weekend for an urgent work matter, so we had Friday evening, Sunday afternoon and he unexpectedly came to my performance on Saturday night. No overnights because of kids.

@LaminarFlow was somewhat right. It took Mulie a long time to warm up to polyamory, and I guess it's still in process?? Years back, Bass had to abruptly break off with Sage and she felt betrayed and abandoned. He tried everything to make it right with her, but it took a while for Sage to get that trust back for him and Mulie. He doesn't want to repeat that mistake.

Mulie knows I live just around the corner from them and it is too fast for her to do overnights and we can plan them in a couple of months. It would have been fine this weekend when she was gone, but the nannies weren't available. I have to rethink if these "afterthought" actions are enough up until in the new year. We had ample physical/quality-time now and I have to see and feel if it can make up for the lack of overnights.

@GalaGirl, he's ok introducing Sage to me. I'd like more of an "open plan" communication/relationship. They have already spoken. But it seems I might meet her sooner if she is coming to our mutual friend's party during the upcoming holidays. Bass will be out of the country with the family.

 

[Cece]

About Saturday night:

I did not expect to see Bass except for Friday evening. Everyone was surprised after the show, and Bass and George got on surprisingly well. I'm still getting used to the whole parallel situation.

Bass then asked if I had time on Sunday when George had gone. I told him I was available for two hours and we just hugged and talked.

It's chaotic, but I hope we find a good rhythm in the new year

 

[edwardblackwood]

I agree. Problem is that I have made it known that ample quality-time is my main love language. I don't even mind if he brings his work so we can just both spend time together while I do something else. If it's true that Mulie has problems with feeling replaced and nearing a co-primary, he should have not made these agreements with me. I expect people to organize their lives properly and fulfil their commitments.

I get you! Quality time is really important, and people should stick to their commitments so no one feels replaced or neglected.