age gap

[pftsh]

In that case wouldn't it go both ways? An older woman will have all of those things over a man half her age.

Yes, and for sure, people have made that argument. But there is still gender privilege. I have always been expected to just go along with what my partner's wanted, and it led me to some really harmful codependent relationships. "I'm gonna drink all night if I want to!" "Having the freedom to date whomever I want is a basic need!" (what my current partner is saying). Our needs typically come second, no matter what the age gap.

Like I said, I've emerged from relationships with younger men with PTSD.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

I thought it was probably referring to income, thank you for confirming... By that same logic it would be inappropriate for a middle aged high-earning man to date a middle aged low-earning woman. Is that right? I am not quite sure where age fits into the power equation unless it's based solely on the assumption that younger people tend to earn less than older people.

It's pertinent for all to be aware of how wealth and class add a dimension of potential power imbalance in the relationship.

For instance, it might mean that one partner is far more able to leave and live independently than the other.

 

[pftsh]

It's pertinent for all to be aware of how wealth and class add a dimension of potential power imbalance in the relationship.

For instance, it might mean that one partner is far more able to leave and live independently than the other.

Yeah, and that really plays out in a lot of domestic violence situations.

 

[GalaGirl]

Honestly, I was willing to sit down with him and have a conversation about our different needs, to see if we needed to think creatively, to see if we actually COULD meet each other's needs in this relationship. But yesterday he cornered me and talked about me being controlling, manipulative, issuing an ultimatum. And he wanted me to decide right away if this was a dealbreaker. Even still, after he got very antagonistic with me last night, I'm willing to see a counselor about this. Am I nuts?

You sound like you told him "No, thanks" already.

He kinda sounds like he's bullying you, wanting to get his way and override/not respect your "no."

You are the one there. You know if he's bullying you/pressuring you or not. If he is, be careful you aren't going into a "fawning" response, trying to soothe him. Or that you are "explaining." You don't have to. I know when stressed or cornered, people go "fight, flight, freeze or fawn," but in the big picture, it's just dating. If you and he don't align, why force it? He can date how he wants. You can date how you want. You two are not obligated to date each other. And if he's behaving poorly at you, you don't have to deal in it at all.

You could do all this contemplation on your own, about whether or not you can become okay with younger metas in future. You do not have to do it with him.

But if he's a bully, you can drop him for that. And you do not have to go to couple's counseling with him so he can learn how not to bully. If he wants counseling for that, he can do it by himself. You do not have to JADE -- justify, argue, defend or explain your decisions to him, if it has become a circular conversation, where his goal is to wear you down until you give in/give up, just so he stops the harangue. It's okay to just quit.

GG

 

[Brazen]

It's why I have my own home, bought and paid for, own job, car, etc. In my view, it's imperative that women are financially independent as much as they can be. Dependence, whether financial or emotional, can be perilous for women.

However, I have met wonderful 20-somethings. One came to a recent party and has asked for my number. I hope we can become friends. Would I date someone 20 years younger than me? I used to say no. But maybe, depending. Would I date someone 20 years older than me? Possibly, but again, it depends.

I guess what I'm saying is, even with the power imbalances in society, and with any power I may have over prospective partners, and they may have over me, I now take into account the individuals and the circumstances.

 

[pftsh]

It's why I have my own home, bought and paid for, own job, car, etc. In my view, it's imperative that women are financially independent as much as they can be. Dependence, whether financial or emotional, can be perilous for women.

However, I have met wonderful 20-somethings. One came to a recent party and has asked for my number. I hope we can become friends. Would I date someone 20 years younger than me? I used to say no. But maybe, depending. Would I date someone 20 years older than me? Possibly, but again, it depends.

I guess what I'm saying is, even with the power imbalances in society, and with any power I may have over prospective partnersm and they may have over me., I now take into account the individuals and the circumstances.

Whew, just be careful. Be very careful.

I was talking to my niece about all this. She has a daughter in her mid-20s. Her daughter can't understand wanting to date someone her dad's age, and she sees a lot of her peers fetishizing older men. It typically doesn't end well. It was interesting to get a secondhand perspective from someone who IS that age, and see how people in that cohort are feeling about this.

 

[pftsh]

It's why I have my own home, bought and paid for, own job, car etc. In my view its imperative that women are financially independent as much as they can be. Dependence whether, financial or emotional, can be perilous for women.

However, I have met wonderful 20 somethings. One came to a recent party and has asked for my number. I hope we could become friends. Would I date someone 20 years younger than me...I used to say no. But maybe, depending. Would I date someone 20 years older than me? Possibly but again depending.

I guess what I'm saying is even with the power imbalance in society and with any I may have over prospective partners and they have over me.....I now take into account the individual and the circumstances.

And yes yes yes. With you on financial independence.

 

[pftsh]

You sound like you told him "no, thanks" already.

He kinda sounds like he's bullying you wanting to get his way and override/not respect your "no."

You are the one there. You know if he's bullying you/pressuring you or not.

If he is? Be careful you aren't going into "fawning" response trying to soothe him. Or keep "explaining."

Cuz you don't have to. I know when stressed or cornered people go "fight, flight, freeze or fawn" but in the big picture? It's just dating. If you and him don't align? Why force it? He can date how he wants. You can date how you want. You two are not obligated to date each other. And if he's behaving poorly at you? You don't have to deal in it at all.

You could do all this contemplation on your own. About whether or not you can become ok with younger metas in future. You do not have to do it with him.

But if he's a bully? You can drop him for that. And you do not have to go to couple counseling with him so he can learn how not to bully. If he wants counseling for that he can do it by himself. You do not have to JADE -- justify, argue, defend or explain your decisions to him if it has become a circle conversation where his goal is to wear you down til you give in/give up just so he stops the harangue. It's ok to just quit.

GG

I was looking at it as "pressuring," but yeah... thanks for pointing that out. In my mind, I wasn't even thinking we'd end it and never talk to each other again. There's "de-escalation." We could be friends. We could detach just enough that I would feel safe and not wary of the potential drama his other relationships might bring.

 

[AlwaysGrowing]

That's not the only reason I have an issue with it. I've seen older male friends of mine get ditched. Get cheated on. I cheated on guys in my 20s left and right. I was dishonest. I did horrible things to people because I didn't know wtf I was doing.

This is the part that I think is YOUR issue. Not all people in their 20s lie and cheat. It sucks that you've had bad experiences and made bad choices, but not everyone does. Your history of entering and staying in unhealthy relationships is a YOU thing to work on - and you should! Everyone deserves to be treated well in their relationships.

In general, I think Biff is the problem, from what you've presented here. But you have clear bias against people in their 20s that is unfair to many, many folks. While I think an older guy only looking for women in their 20s is icky at best, and potentially predatory or abusive, an older guy who dates younger women AND women closer to his age is likely just a person open to possibilities and judges things on a case-by-case basis.

Honestly, I was willing to sit down with him and have a conversation about our different needs, to see if we needed to think creatively, to see if we actually COULD meet each other's needs in this relationship. But yesterday he cornered me and talked about me being controlling, manipulative, issuing an ultimatum. And he wanted me to decide right away if this was a dealbreaker. Even still, after he got very antagonistic with me last night, I'm willing to see a counselor about this. Am I nuts?

You're both acting irrationally. You're not going to agree. It really is time to decide if you're letting go of the boundary or letting go of the relationship. He seems to be trying push you away so he doesn't have to look like the bad guy, breaking up with an older partner to pursue someone younger. He's also escalating his behavior, if by "cornering you," you mean he literally restricted your movement by trapping you in a physical space, he is no longer just verbally/emotionally volatile, but physically, as well. Please revisit the strengthening of YOUR boundaries, and leave, if this is the case.

 

[pftsh]

This is the part that I think is YOUR issue. Not all people in their 20s lie and cheat. It sucks that you've had bad experiences and made bad choices, but not everyone does. Your history of entering and staying in unhealthy relationships is a YOU thing to work on, and you should! Everyone deserves to be treated well in their relationships.

In general, I think Biff is the problem, from what you've presented here. But you have clear bias against people in their 20s that is unfair to many, many folks. While I think an older guy only looking for women in their 20s is icky at best, and potentially predatory or abusive, an older guy who dates younger women AND women closer to his age is likely just a person open to possibilities and judges things on a case-by-case basis.


You're both acting irrationally. You're not going to agree. It really is time to decide if you're letting go of the boundary or letting go of the relationship. He seems to be trying push you away so he doesn't have to look like the bad guy, breaking up with an older partner to pursue someone younger. He's also escalating his behavior, if by "cornering you," you mean he literally restricted your movement by trapping you in a physical space, he is no longer just verbally/ emotionally volatile, but physically as well. Please revisit the strengthening YOUR boundaries and leave, if this is the case.

Oh no. I'm sorry. Not physically cornering, metaphorically cornering. Putting me in a corner, forcing me to be the one to decide. But then when I did, he just wants to convince me otherwise.

 

[GalaGirl]

oh no, I'm sorry. Not physically cornering. Metaphorically cornering. Putting me in a corner, forcing me to be the one to decide. But then when I did, he just wants to convince me otherwise.

To me that's still not respecting your answer and still bullying to get his way.

Tread with caution. Dude wants things from you whether you care to give them or not.

GG

 

[Inaniel]

Oh no. I'm sorry. Not physically cornering, metaphorically cornering. Putting me in a corner, forcing me to be the one to decide. But then when I did, he just wants to convince me otherwise.

These... are red flags.

 

[pftsh]

"While I think an older guy only looking for women in their 20s is icky at best, and potentially predatory or abusive, an older guy who dates younger women AND women closer to his age is likely just a person open to possibilities and judges things on a case-by-case basis."

I hadn't thought about it this way. Thanks.

 

[GalaGirl]

I was looking at it as "pressuring" , but yeah... thanks for pointing that out. In my mind, I wasn't even thinking we'd end it and never talk to each other again. There's "de-escalation." We could be friends. We could detach just enough that I feel safe and not wary of potential drama his other relationships might bring.

But Tiffany isn't even bringing you the drama right now. She just exists.

It is HIM doing poor behaviors: giving you info in dribs and drabs, or keeping secrets like "hiding her" and not being honest that they date. Then pressuring and bullying you weirdly to get you to accept a younger meta, even though you already said you are not into that, just so he retains dating access to you. Like you are trying to control him when there's nothing to control.

He can keep on dating her, if he wants. He's just not entitled to date you at the same time.

If he doesn't respect your "no" or boundaries now, it's all about him and what he gets, what suddenly would change in "de-escalation" that would make him start doing better behaviors towards you?

GG

 

[Magdlyn]

You're insecure about your aging body, but not okay with Biff getting an ego boost from the interest of a younger woman. This is a bit hypocritical.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

It's about patterns too.

There is a pattern of women (think celebrities, because we all hear about them) who, at the time of the relationship, seemed equal to their older male partner. With celebrities, the woman was often also a celebrity, so richer than average for their age. They may have even defended their relationship at the time to critics who mentioned the potential of exploitation.

Later, even decades later, those same women look back on the relationship and declare there was a significant power imbalance, sometimes to the point of abuse.

Now, we can't say whether their later reports are true. But what we can say in nearly every case is that these (then) younger women felt a profound inability to advocate for themselves in that situation. Age and status are often mentioned as defining factors of why they felt they couldn't.

 

[Magdlyn]

It's about patterns too.

There is a pattern of women (think celebrities, because we all hear about them) who, at the time of the relationship, seemed equal to their older male partner. With celebrities, the woman was often also a celebrity, so richer than average for their age. They may have even defended their relationship at the time to critics who mentioned the potential of exploitation.

Later, even decades later, those same women look back on the relationship and declare there was a significant power imbalance, sometimes to the point of abuse.

Now, we can't say whether their later reports are true. But what we can say in nearly every case is that these (then) younger women felt a profound inability to advocate for themselves in that situation. Age and status are often mentioned as defining factors of why they felt they couldn't.

Could you name some names? I can't think of anyone. Well, except for Harvey Weinstein's victims.

 

[pftsh]

You're insecure about your aging body, but not okay with Biff getting an ego boost from the interest of a younger woman. This is a bit hypocritical.

When did I say that?

How would it be hypocritcal, if I did feel that way? I'm not going out and hooking up with 20something guys to boost my ego. And they do hit me up. I don't need that kind of validation.

I have a great body. I also know it won't be that way forever. I'm almost 60.

 

[pftsh]

Could you name some names? I can't think of anyone. Well, except for Harvey Weinstein's victims.

I could send you plenty of threads on the poly subreddit. Google age gap polyamory.

 

[pftsh]

It's about patterns too.

There is a pattern of women (think celebrities, because we all hear about them) who, at the time of the relationship, seemed equal to their older male partner. With celebrities, the woman was often also a celebrity, so richer than average for their age. They may have even defended their relationship at the time to critics who mentioned the potential of exploitation.

Later, even decades later, those same women look back on the relationship and declare there was a significant power imbalance, sometimes to the point of abuse.

Now, we can't say whether their later reports are true. But what we can say in nearly every case is that these (then) younger women felt a profound inability to advocate for themselves in that situation. Age and status are often mentioned as defining factors of why they felt they couldn't.

There's one particular thread on the poly subreddit where a man and his wife opened up, and his first contact was a 22 y.o. (They are in their 30s.) Replies urged him to tread cautiously, with many women who are older now reflecting on how they thought they were so smart in their 20s and not subject to manipulation, and years later they're looking back on how naive they were.