I don't know. We started doing a lot of relationship work together before this all blew up. We were really making progress. We just hadn't focused on trust issues, which is what I think we needed to be looking at.
age gap
- Thread starter pftsh
- Start date
- Status
AlwaysGrowing
Well-known member
Demi Lovato is an example I can think of. They came out with a great song, 29, about their relationship with what's-his-name that was on That 70s Show. He was 29 at the time, and Demi was 17 when the relationship started. At the time, they were very vocal about it being super healthy, wonderful, and all that. After getting sober, looking back, and looking at people those ages, they realized how much societal expectations and the attention received actually impacted what they thought they wanted at the time.
I don't follow much celebrity news though, so that's the only one I've got.
Demi Lovato is an example I can think of. They came out with a great song - 29 - about their relationship with what's his name that was on that 70s show. He was 29 at the time, demi was 17 when the relationship started. At the time, they were very vocal about it being super healthy, wonderful, and all that. After getting sober, looking back, and looking at people those ages, they realized how much societal expectations and the attention received actually impacted what they thought they wanted at the time.
I don't follow much celebrity news though, so that's the only one I've got
Ashton Kutcher?
I'm not that invested in today's stars, with rare exceptions. I am more into Old Hollywood, haha. I think of Bogart and Bacall. She was 17, a mere starlet; he was 50, or something like that, and a superstar when they met. They were in a relationship for about 15 years, until he died.
I mean, you're insecure about your aging body. You don't date younger men (anymore, anyway) to boost your ego, but you are quite concerned about your age/desirability. So, if Biff is too, and Tiffany makes him feel attractive, how is that bad?
Inaniel
Well-known member
One of the earlier posts from pftsh was about the societal messages that older women be put out to pasture once they hit a certain age. That statement, in addition to what you are saying, paints the opposite picture of women increasing in power as they age, doesn't it?
We can all imagine the cliché of a wealthy older man dating a young attractive woman. In my opinion, there appears to be some sort of balance of power in those situations. The man brings his money and status to the relationship and the woman brings her youth/fertility/beauty. I am assuming both are consenting adults in this instance.
If you take that same dude, but imagine him with no money or status, it is easy to imagine him without the same attractive young woman at his side. Couldn't it be that the young 20-something women are in a position of power to be fetching the high money/status men? If a middle-aged woman fetched a high-earning middle-aged man, wouldn't the societal norm be to cheer her on? Or is the conventional wisdom now to date people who earn a similar wage?
Inaniel
Well-known member
I believe Hugh Hefner's wives have spoken out.
I don't go to reddit. I find it toxic.
But the question was about high-earning celebrity women. All of Hef's wives/girlfriends would have been nobodies whom he discovered and put in the magazine.
SEASONEDpolyAgain
Well-known member
SEASONEDpolyAgain
Well-known member
Their sexual value decreases. They may have more societal status and power.
SEASONEDpolyAgain
Well-known member
This is not an equal exchange. Of course you can spend money and lose status but what is inevitable is that a woman becomes older, infertile and by societal standards, less beautiful.
Consent is a subjective word. I think the power imbalance can be such that someone is unable to provide good consent. I don't think the age of consent is all a considerate person takes into account when deciding if a power imbalance is too coercive.
I do think, and I'm sure people have heard me say, that we need to be more stark when warning young people about the power differences between them and much older people. That their belief that they are giving informed consent may be skewered purely because they lack the age/experience to know what's good for them. Like those celebrities and several other accounts from people. A lot of women have personal accounts of the same experience of later seeing the relationship for what it was.
I've only really socialised in a queer/poly/kinky environment for years now but I have noticed something in particular about the young people in that crowd. They have a particular confidence in their decisions that I find quite worrying.
They often speak about their vanilla/straight/mono peers as if they are much younger and less enlightened and can successfully isolate the risks and poor decisions they make. But they lack the ability to see the same thing in themselves.
Last edited:
Inaniel
Well-known member
From the perspective of a cishet dude in his late thirties, I do have more opportunities to date age twenty-something women today than I ever did when I was twenty-something myself. I don't know if this is a typical aspect of aging or if there is a societal shift, but it was quite apparent when I was on the dating apps last year. If I can generalize, it was mostly young educated professional types that were interested in dating me. Maybe that has something to do with women surpassing men as college degree earners, perhaps there are not enough young professional men who meet the success expectations of young women.
"Fetch" a man?? How old are you? This is sounding very misogynistic
Inaniel
Well-known member
Quoting me won't make your argument fetch any better. Can we aim for a discussion with substance?
As that post was about the broader human experience, beyond polyamory, yes the world as it operates today is still quite misogynistic.
Bobbi
Well-known member
He hid her from you, lied about her to you, and you think he's being honest when he says that? Although you see her age as the problem, I see his inability to be honest and forthcoming with you as the problem. He is either incapable of being honest with you because of his issues, or he's afraid that no matter what you say, your response to what he says will be bad. Since you already have a negative response to her age, he won't trust you to support him in any way with this woman, and probably wont be honest about her with you.
If you want to live a poly life or accept him doing so, you'll need to learn to keep your opinions, bad reactions, thoughts about the women he picks to yourself. Let him do him and you do you. You can choose to have nothing to do with these women. If he wants KTP, that's on him; you do not have to participate. If his relationship with them affects you directly, then speak up. The fact that she's 20-something does not directly affect you. You might think that it does, because it makes you sick, but you'd be wrong. That's a you problem. It makes you sick because your thoughts tell you to be sick about it. He cannot control your thoughts or change them; that's on you.
Hello pftsh,
It is honestly your privilege to choose not to have metamours half your age, and it is your privilege to choose not to date a man who in turn dates a woman half his age. You don't have to explain or defend your position. It is your right to have that stance, for whatever reason/s.
I guess you don't want to stop dating Biff, you want to keep dating him, you just want him to stop dating Tiffany. I'm not sure where that leaves us. Perhaps you need to talk with Biff, and explain to him that you do not consent to him dating Tiffany, and that therefore he must stop dating her. Now, whether he will agree to stop dating her, that's another matter, I don't know. So, what will you do if he says no?
Or, do you want to keep dating him, and you want to give him his freedom, and you just want to know how to be okay with him dating Tiffany? You're looking for a way to change your own mind about the age gap? so you don't have to break up with him? It would help if I could be sure Tiffany was a super good person. Is she?
What about Kate? Is she also half your age? Is Biff dating two women half his age? Do both of these women party a lot? Is Biff inclined to party with them? What kind of relationship does he have with them? What kind of relationship does he really have with them, since he won't tell you the truth?
I don't think you are nuts, I think it is very wise of you to see a counselor about this. Truth be told, a counselor might be able to help you cope with other people's dysfunctional behaviors. The problem doesn't have to be with you, for a counselor to be helpful.
Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.
It is honestly your privilege to choose not to have metamours half your age, and it is your privilege to choose not to date a man who in turn dates a woman half his age. You don't have to explain or defend your position. It is your right to have that stance, for whatever reason/s.
I guess you don't want to stop dating Biff, you want to keep dating him, you just want him to stop dating Tiffany. I'm not sure where that leaves us. Perhaps you need to talk with Biff, and explain to him that you do not consent to him dating Tiffany, and that therefore he must stop dating her. Now, whether he will agree to stop dating her, that's another matter, I don't know. So, what will you do if he says no?
Or, do you want to keep dating him, and you want to give him his freedom, and you just want to know how to be okay with him dating Tiffany? You're looking for a way to change your own mind about the age gap? so you don't have to break up with him? It would help if I could be sure Tiffany was a super good person. Is she?
What about Kate? Is she also half your age? Is Biff dating two women half his age? Do both of these women party a lot? Is Biff inclined to party with them? What kind of relationship does he have with them? What kind of relationship does he really have with them, since he won't tell you the truth?
I don't think you are nuts, I think it is very wise of you to see a counselor about this. Truth be told, a counselor might be able to help you cope with other people's dysfunctional behaviors. The problem doesn't have to be with you, for a counselor to be helpful.
Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.
I'm confused about who Kate is. Is she dating Biff, as well as being married to your other partner Steve, so she's your metamour twice over?
Why was there so much drama about you meeting her?
To me, it sounds like Tiffany's age isn't really the issue, it's that Biff's communication about her has been cagey and vague. You already broke up with him once over it... and you've only been with him 8 months? Maybe cut your losses. He doesn't sound that great.
But if you want to keep seeing him, ask yourself why you feel you need to have Kitchen Table Poly. Why not parallel poly? You don't ever need to meet Tiffany, much less hang out with her. Why not just hear less about her and think less about her?
Why was there so much drama about you meeting her?
To me, it sounds like Tiffany's age isn't really the issue, it's that Biff's communication about her has been cagey and vague. You already broke up with him once over it... and you've only been with him 8 months? Maybe cut your losses. He doesn't sound that great.
But if you want to keep seeing him, ask yourself why you feel you need to have Kitchen Table Poly. Why not parallel poly? You don't ever need to meet Tiffany, much less hang out with her. Why not just hear less about her and think less about her?
SEASONEDpolyAgain
Well-known member
It would directly affect me. I'd know my partner is into 20-year old girls. I see them as girls. I'd be worried about the young women that they've been around. I'd also be worried about our reputation in the local poly and kinky community, as many places would shun people who prey on young people. In fact, some places I go, you have to be over 25 to attend anyway.
I'd not want to be known as the partner of the creep who chases young barely-legal people.
Inaniel
Well-known member
Circling back to the OP's situation, the meta in question is 28. Would you have the same concerns about a meta who is almost 30?
- Status