Am I jealous or envious

[Rthat69]

My wife and I have been happily married 15 years. Two years into marriage we started swinging. We went thru various configurations/scenarios, learning along the way. We eventually got to the point where we could play separately when we wanted to. No problems.

We then met a couple and began swinging with them. We all fell in love, and my wife and I communicated very well about this new development. We had a great situation. We were able to hang out as friends, all four together, occasionally all playing together, but also had plenty of alone time with our respective partners. No problems.

Unfortunately, the other couple didn't make it. After three years as a foursome, they divorced, and each found new partners that didn't want to participate in the lifestyle. It was very painful for us. We grieved the loss of those relationships like you'd grieve breaking up with anyone you loved... But we still had each other.

Flash forward two years. I'm still monogamous with my wife, not necessarily because I am choosing to be so, but I have yet to find anyone, even for casual sex. My wife, on the other hand, has found a new partner, and they have gotten very close relatively quickly. She admits that she has fallen in love again. I am very happy for her. However, I find myself confronted with other feelings I've never had before.

All my life I have never had feelings of jealousy, but lately, hearing her talk about her new relationship is making me have the feels. I'm guessing I didn't feel it previously because I was also in love at the same time, so I didn't notice it or it didn't bother me. But now I don't have my extra person, and she does. They do the kinds of things you do in a new relationship... dating, cooking meals together, little inside jokes, cuddling on the couch. Hearing about that stuff is bothering me. It's reminding me of our first couple of years together. However, the sex doesn't bother me at all. I like hearing about that lol. Part of the problem is also that this new guy is uncomfortable around me, so he's just kind of the "other guy," whereas her previous guy became a close friend.

I have discussed all this with my wife and she's very understanding. She told me she would stop seeing him if it bothered me too much. I don't want to do that. She's very happy, more self confident. Also, at the time of the pandemic she was diagnosed with leukemia and we almost lost her. She's recovered now, but I always think to myself how fragile her life is, and I just want her to be happy.

I wish I had an outlet for my feelings. Any advice?

 

[Magdlyn]

My wife and I have been happily married 15 years. Two years into marriage we started swinging. We went thru various configurations/scenarios, learning along the way. We eventually got to the point where we could play separately when we wanted to. No problems. We then met a couple and began swinging with them. We all fell in love, and my wife and I communicated very well about this new development. We had a great situation, able to hang out as friends, all four together, occasionally all playing together, but also had plenty of alone time with our respective partners. No problems.

Unfortunately, the other couple didn't make it. After three years as a foursome, they divorced, and each found new partners that didn't want to participate in the lifestyle. It was very painful for us. We grieved the loss of those relationships like you'd grieve breaking up with anyone that you loved... But we still had each other.

Thank you for sharing your story.

Flash forward two years-- I'm still monogamous with my wife, not necessarily because I am choosing to be so, but I have yet to find anyone, even for casual sex. My wife, on the other hand, has found a new partner, and they've gotten very close relatively quickly. She admits the that she has fallen in love again. I am very happy for her. However, I find myself confronted with other feelings I've never had before.

All my life, I have never had feelings of jealousy, but lately hearing her talk about her new relationship is making me have the feels. I'm guessing I didn't feel it previously because I was also in love at the same time, so I didn't notice it, or it didn't bother me. But now I don't have my extra person, and she does.

Yes, it is often easier when things are balanced. If only you were having those fun NRE feelings at the same time! But it is more the norm in polyamory (as opposed to swinging) to have things unbalanced quite frequently. Wife has a hot date but you plan to just do the dishes and watch TV, or do an activity with the kids. It can make you feel kind of bored, unattractive, undesirable, frustrated, depressed-- all those feelings that aren't fun to feel.

An important concept to learn about and learn to do is to detangle a bit. Polyamory requires more independence than "playing together as a couple." Even though you were in a polyamorous relationship with the other couple, you didn't need to consciously detangle. Apparently you got to be with the woman of that couple every time your wife got to be with the guy? So y'all never learned to entertain yourselves on your own.

It sounds like your wife is committed to polyamory now. I am not sure how she met her new bf, but it wasn't while you two were trying to "swing"? I guess wife is not interested in swinging in a group setting now, where you might find a hookup or FWB type situation?

Are you trying to date polyamorously yourself? Maybe you're on dating apps either looking for love, or even just sex, but not getting much interest, so far.

They do the kind of things that you do in a new relationship: dating, cooking meals together, little inside jokes, cuddling on the couch. Hearing about that stuff is bothering me. It's reminding me of our first couple years together.

One thing that helps is to consciously date your wife. You and she might have learned to take each other for granted, and looked to the new sex partners for the excitement. Otherwise when it's just the two of you, maybe you just hang out, go to different screens, don't consciously go do something fun (non-sexual things, interesting dates). You could cook together, go on hikes, go to museums, take day trips to explore another town, go to a play or concert, etc... Whatever kind of thing it might be that you'd both like.

You can start to treat yourself and get out and do things you yourself like (that she maybe doesn't care for), when she's on a date with bf. You can go out with friends, or on your own. You never know, you might meet someone new!

Also, you can ask wife to share less about the cute fun cuddly things she does with bf, if that's just hurting you and making you envious.

However, the sex doesn't bother me at all. I like hearing about that lol. Part of the problem is also that this new guy is uncomfortable around me, so he's just kind of the "other guy," whereas her previous guy became a close friend.

So you had "kitchen table poly" with the other couple. But this guy wants "parallel poly," where he dates your wife but doesn't have an interest in hanging out with you. Both styles are common in polyamory. You don't automatically get a new bestie just because wife is dating someone.

I have discussed all this with my wife and she's very understanding. She told me she would stop seeing him if it bothered me too much. I don't want to do that.

Good.

She's very happy, more self confident. Also, at the time of the pandemic she was diagnosed with leukemia and we almost lost her. She's recovered now, but I always think to myself how fragile her life is, and I just want her happy.

I wish I had an outlet for my feelings. Any advice?

Well you can certainly vent here, or in other poly-friendly spaces. Lots of people have been in your shoes.

You can also read some books about polyamory, such as Opening Up, Designer Relationships, or Polysecure.

I hope that helps!

 

[Rthat69]

Thank you mags, all great observations and advice. We have actually already stepped up our "dating", in an effort to balance this out, even though we've always been good about it. I think maybe part of the problem has been that with her in the throes of her new love she was prioritizing him right in front of me without realizing it, and that really hurts (e.g. we're on a date night and she's texting him). When I pointed that out she apologized and said she would not do that again, and I can see her consciously working on it.

I will check out the resources you mentioned, and come here to vent when I'm feeling out of sorts with this.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Rthat69,
Let's see what Wiktionary has to say.

jealous
1. Suspecting rivalry in love; troubled by worries that one might have been replaced in someone's affections; suspicious of a lover's or spouse's fidelity. (from 13th c.)
2. Protective; zealously guarding; careful in the protection of something (or someone) one has or appreciates, especially one's spouse or lover. (from 14th c.)
3. Envious; feeling resentful or angered toward someone for a perceived advantage or success, material or otherwise. (from 14th c.)

"I'm jealous because I'm single."​

4. Suspecting, suspicious.
Usage notes
Some usage guides seek to distinguish "jealous" from "envious," using jealous to mean "protective of one's own position or possessions" -- one "jealously guards what one has" -- and envious to mean "desirous of others' position or possessions" -- one "envies what others have." This distinction is also maintained in the psychological and philosophical literature. However, this distinction is not always reflected in usage, as shown by the citations above.

envious
1. Feeling or exhibiting envy; jealously desiring the excellence or good fortune of another; maliciously grudging

an envious man, disposition, or attack; envious tongues​

2. Excessively careful; cautious.
3. (obsolete) Malignant; mischievous; spiteful.
4. (obsolete, poetic) Inspiring envy.

Based on the above entries, I would have to say that you are envious, with notes of jealousy. You wish you had what your wife has. Another partner. The definitions (and usage) of jealous and envious do overlap a bit.

I question how healthy it is for her to talk to you about her new relationship. She is stirring up envy where that isn't really necessary. Probably because she has NRE. She wants to carry on about her new relationship. But she should only share with you the part/s you want to hear.

Hang in there; you will find someone for you eventually.
Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[Timmer]

rthat, thank you for sharing this. You are navigating one of the trickiest parts of poly and your feelings are very common. Imbalance helps us grow, though, as you have realized. When you are both in NRE with someone, everything is so great that few problems come up!

My wife and I have almost never both been in NRE simultaneously. We've been somewhat imbalanced in one direction or the other much of the time. But we've learned that our feelings of envy come from the nature of our love languages. When she was dating and I wasn't, I would obsessively picture them in each other's arms, saying they love each other, etc. My love languages are touch and words of affection. When I was off dating and she wasn't, she never cared about my sexual activities, but she would get envious of the time I would spend cooking, watching tv, or snuggling on the couch. Her love language is quality time.

So I would wager from your post that quality time is a significant love language for you.

My advice on this is two things. First, do some mental work when your wife is with you to remind yourself that her quality time with the other person doesn't in any way diminish the quality time that you two share when you are together. When you are experiencing the quiet joy of having her next to you, take a second to mentally step back and look at the moment and tell yourself: "This is my quality time with her. This is my joy. And if, 3 days from now, she's doing this with someone else, it changes nothing about this moment." Find a way to focus on your positive life with her, if that makes sense.

The other thing I would advise is to try to avoid doing the actions that the two of you do together, while she is out with him. Like, if cooking together and cuddling on the couch is where your joy is, do not cook alone and then sit on the couch alone while she is out. Shake out of that routine. Get take out, or go eat out with a friend. Go to the gym and do a workout instead of watching tv in "your spot." Or if you need to remain home, sit in a different spot. Basically, try to avoid as much as you can settling directly into your normal routine with her, but minus her, as that familiarity is where the feels will start to come out.

Best wishes!

 

[Bobbi]

MY wife and I have almost never both been in NRE simultaneously, we've been somewhat imbalanced in one direction or the other much of the time, but we learned that our feelings of envy came from the nature of our love languages. When she was dating and I wasn't, I would obsessively picture them in each other's arms telling each other that they love each other, etc. My love languages are touch and words of affection. When I was off dating and she wasn't, she never cared about my sexual activities, but she would get envious of the time I would spend cooking, watching tv, or snuggling on the couch. Her love language is quality time.

Thank you for sharing this! That never occurred to me and it’s HUGE. Thank you