Are my friends being a bit polyphobic?

[Alita]

I’m visiting friends abroad where my secondary partner (SP) lives. They are all friends too. My SP and I both have other primary partners.

Recently, my friends said they were looking forward to seeing me, but that they’d talked about it and decided they didn’t want to hang out with my SP and me together, because they knew both our primary partners.

In the moment, I just said I completely understood, which I do, and then we changed the topic. But it made me so sad.

I myself had mentioned long ago to my friends that I didn’t think we should all hang out together (my friends and my SP) until my primary partner (PP) felt okay about it, when it was still quite new. My friends know that my PP and I are having lots of ongoing conversations and check-ins about poly and needs and boundaries and that things are going really well.

But the fact that my friends felt the need to set that boundary so explicitly the other day made me feel really sad and shameful. I feel like that decision (whether or not it would be okay for all of us to hang out) should be made by me and my SP based on how our PPs feel and what we agree to in our primary relationships.

My friends only know our PPs through us, and don’t see them very often.

I put a lot of effort into communicating clearly with my PP, considering his feelings and respecting his boundaries. When my friends (for whom this is all new) state that they don’t want to see my SP and me together, it makes me feel like they’re basically saying, “It’s fine that you’re together. Just don’t drag us into it." I feel like our relationship is being treated as kind of wrong or immoral.

Again, I do agree with what they said, I just feel like it should be our decision (us two poly couples) whether or not it’s okay to hang out together with friends.

I know I’m probably projecting my own poly shame onto the situation, and the obvious thing to do would be to talk to my friends and find out how they actually feel and why, but I really don’t want to cause any sort of drama or make my friends feel bad for setting a boundary or considering our PP’s feelings, which was very compassionate of them, when you think about it. I’m just imagining that they’re being judgmental too, or a bit polyphobic.

Am I overreacting here? Any thoughts, experiences, advice?

Thanks!

/Alita

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

You're not overreacting. This is a common downside to being poly in a mono-normative society, even when everyone is happy and settled in the arrangement.

Over the years, both first and secondhand, I've had or seen vanilla and/or mono friends who have expressed an explicit boundary like your friends did. I've also seen it just be so awkward that nobody has to put a stop to it, it just becomes untenable.

This is why some kinky/poly people tend to stray away from their vanilla network and create a whole new social network of kinky and poly friends. Others deal with the limitations of not being as "out."

 

[Alita]

You're not overreacting. This is a common downside to being poly in a mono-normative society. Even when everyone is happy and settled in the arrangement.

Over the years, both first and secondhand, I've had or seen vanilla and/or mono friends who have expressed an explicit boundary like your friends did. I've also seen it just be so awkward that nobody has to put a stop to it, it just becomes untenable.

This is why some kinky/poly people tend to stray away from their vanilla network and create a whole new social network of kinky and poly friends. Others deal with the limitations of not being as "out."

Thank you for your response. I can imagine it being awkward to hang out, but I guess part of me has been dreaming that it might become this natural easy thing where everyone feels cool to hang out - with time. And that dream sort of shattered in a moment, when my friend set that boundary.

Would you tell her anything, or ask about it, if it were you?

And what has made those kinds of scenarios awkward in the scenarios you've been in, if I may ask?

/Alita

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

Thank you for your response. I can imagine it being awkward to hang out, but I guess part of me has been dreaming that it might become this natural easy thing where everyone feels cool to hang out - with time. And that dream sort of shattered in a moment, when my friend set that boundary.

Would you tell her anything, or ask about it, if it were you?

And what has made those kinds of scenarios awkward in the scenarios you've been in, if I may ask?

/Alita

I don't think there is much point in saying anything.

Sometimes, I'd say that either the poly people have been a bit overzealous in terms of PDAs and just rubbing it in everyone's faces. Or insisting that all their partners and/or metamours are welcomed at all events, and refusing to even keep a modicum of discretion about the situation.

Other times, the friends/family are the ones that are conservative to the point that the mere knowledge/presence of another partner/metamour is too much.

Most times, it's nothing extreme. It's just the that the friends/family feel like they can't relax and therefore, everybody else picks up on the underlying vibe. It just becomes a situation people want to avoid and so they make tough choices about how they will do so.

 

[Alita]

I don't think there is much point in saying anything.

Sometimes, I'd say that either the poly people have been a bit overzealous in terms of PDAs and just rubbing it in everyone's faces. Or insisting that all their partners and/or metamours are welcomed at all events and refusing to even keep a modicum of discretion about the situation.

Other times, the friends/family are the ones that are conservative to the point that the mere knowledge/presence of another partner/metamour is too much.

Most times, it's nothing extreme. It's just the that the friends/family feel like they can't relax and therefore, everybody else picks up on the underlying vibe. It just becomes a situation people want to avoid and so they make tough choices about how they will do so.

That makes sense. Thank you. I did just write my friend though (in a very friendly way) and they wrote back in a just as friendly way, that’s it’s really nothing more than that they’d feel “weird” about hanging out with both of us at the same time at this point, because they know our PPs.

So apparently it’s not even about being considerate to our PPs, it’s just a matter of avoiding that weird feeling. I get it, and it still feels hurtful. It’s like if they’d said it’s totally cool that you’re in a queer relationship, we just don’t want to look at it. Like, you can be gay, so long as you act straight.

But like you said, I guess it’s just one of those things I’ll have to come to terms with. Maybe I’ll get used to it. I guess I thought my friends were more open-minded. Luckily some of them are.

Thanks again for your time.

 

[mountaingirl]

Again, I do agree with what they said, I just feel like it should be our decision (us two poly couples) whether or not it’s ok to hang out together with friends.

As someone who has had to go with the flow regarding friends and fam, when it comes to the partner I started dating after my husband, I would give the advice of "pick your battles." Most likely, your friend didn't consider that what they asked would upset you. So how are you supposed to even have a conversation about it? It would involve a lot of explaining on your part, to what might be a frosty reception and cause issues between you and friends you otherwise vibe with. The silver lining I have found is that my romantic relationship is between me and said person and there's a kind of cool privacy about that. Just depends on how you look at it.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle.

Recently, my friends said they were looking forward to seeing me, that they’d talked about it and decided they don’t want to hang out with me and my SP together, because they knew both our primary partners.

Fair enough. On this trip, this is what they'd prefer.

I imagine it is more about the friend than you or your relationships. You kinda sound like you are taking it personally.

Again, I do agree with what they said. I just feel like it should be our decision (us two poly couples) whether or not it’s ok to hang out together with friends.

So the friends don't get a voice in the friend group hang-outs they participate in, only you and the people you choose to date get a voice, and whether friends are comfortable yet, or not, they just have to go? They can't ever state a preference?

When my friends (for whom this is all new) state that they don’t want to see my SP and I together, it makes me feel like they’re basically saying, “It’s fine that you’re together, just don’t drag us into it." I feel like our relationship is being treated as kind of wrong or immoral.

Is it, though, or are you jumping to conclusions? Maybe the friends need more time, or they are cool with it, but just don't feel like dealing in too many "plus ones." Do they want to see YOU and not extra people?

I'm going to brunch later this week with a friend. Just us, no partners, no kids, nobody. Because sometimes I'm cool with that and so is she. But really, we two are the ones who are ACTUALLY friends. The "plus ones" are that. Sometimes it gets in the way of interacting more closely if we have to also make nice with extended people and include them. Which we do. We do mix it up for families getting together, but it's just not the same as getting together "just us." It has been a while, so this time I asked for "just us."

Even with my in-laws -- I'm nice to them and they are to me. But the ACTUAL ones who want to hang out are the original siblings. And I get bored sitting around at the "spouse table" making nice with other spouses who are basically doing same. I'm only good for that a few times a year. So I don't take it personally if certain ones want to hang on their own, just them, and not all the spouses and kids, and all that. I sometimes want limited attendees too.

I guess part of me has been dreaming that it might become this natural easy thing where everyone feels cool to hang out - with time. And that dream sort of shattered in a moment, when my friend set that boundary.

Are you even giving it time, though? You just said it's new for them, remember?

I myself had mentioned long ago to my friends that I didn’t think we should all hang out together (my friends and my SP) until my primary partner (PP) feels okay about it, and it was still quite new.

Could it be that your friends are just trying to support you in what you said you originally wanted, slowing things down some? Or do they need more time for themselves to adjust too -- not just be focused on your PP and whatever time PP needs? Maybe something to think about.

Galagirl

 

[MeeraReed]

Is your primary partner struggling with you being poly and/or struggling with your other poly relationship? Or were they struggling initially, but are okay now?

I would guess your friends feel some (possibly misguided) loyalty towards your PP and feel like it would be a betrayal of your PP for them to hang out with you and your other partner. (Or, this might apply to your friends' feelings about your secondary's PP.)

If your PP is totally happy and fine, then your friends are indeed being polyphobic... but if your PP has been struggling, maybe they are just trying to navigate a way of not hurting them.

It sounds like you yourself thought that group friend hang-outs with your secondary partner might not be the best idea if your PP wasn't totally okay with it. So maybe your friends are on the same page, but aren't aware of the latest conversations with your PP.

And it does sound like you are internalizing some shame around being poly. Understandable-- I have done that too when friends had odd reactions.

 

[Alita]

As someone who has had to go with the flow regarding friends and fam when it comes to the partner I started dating after my husband, I would give the advice of "pick your battles". most likely your friend didn't consider that what they asked would upset you--so how are you supposed to even have a conversation about it? it would involve a lot of explaining on your part, to what might be a frosty reception, and cause issues between you and friends you otherwise vibe with. the silver lining i have found is that my romantic relationship is between me and said person and there's a kind of cool privacy about that just depends on how you look at it.

Thanks, that’s a good point! I guess it’s all just a bit sensitive for me. I don’t want be be reactive though and make it a big deal when it doesn’t have to be. That’s a good way of looking at it, making it a cool privacy thing...

 

[Alita]

I'm sorry you struggle.



Fair enough. On this trip, this is what they'd prefer.

I imagine it is more about the friend than you or your relationships. You kinda sound like you are taking it personally.



So the friends don't get a voice in the friend group hangouts they participate in? Only you and the people you choose to date get a voice? And whether friends are comfortable yet or not they just have to go? They can't ever state a preference?



Is it though? Or are you jumping to conclusions? Maybe the friends need more time. Or they are cool with it but just don't feel like dealing in too many "plus ones." They want to see YOU and not extra people?

I'm going to brunch later this week with a friend. Just us. No partners, kids, nobody. Because sometimes I'm cool with that and so is she. But really? We two are the ones who are ACTUALLY friends. The "plus ones" are that, and sometimes it gets in the way of interacting more closely if we have to also make nice with extended people and include them. Which we do. We mix it up for families getting together but it's just not the same as getting together "just us." It has been a while so this time I asked for "just us."

Even with my in-laws -- I'm nice to them and they me. But the ACTUAL ones who want to hang out are the original siblings. And I get bored sitting around at the "spouse table" making nice with other spouses who are basically doing same. I'm only good for that a few times a year. So I don't take it personally if certain ones want to hang on their own just them and not all the spouses and kids and all that. I sometimes want limited attendees too.



Are you even giving it time though? You just said it's new for them. Remember?



Could it be friend is just trying to support you in what you said you originally wanted? Slowing things down some.

Or their need more time for them to adjust too -- not just focussed on your PP and whatever time PP needs?

Maybe something to think about.

Galagirl

Thanks for your response!

My friends definitely get a voice. I absolutely respect their feelings and decisions. I also get it, but at the same time it makes me so sad that they would even feel the need to state that they only want to see me and my SP separately.

And the questions remain:
Are they being poly-phobic?
Do they just need time?
Is this how it’s always going to be, and if so, does it even have to be a problem?

You’re absolutely right-- I’m not actually giving it time. That’d probably the way to go.

I definitely get not wanting extra people visiting or preferring to hang out one-on-one/in smaller groups. I don’t think that’s what this is about though. It seems (because that’s what they said) that’s it’s just about them feeling weird about seeing us at the same time, when they also know our PPs. Plain and simple, don’t want to feel weird. But the whole thing IS just weird (their friends going poly) and I’m sad to have to kind of shut down that side of me for someone I thought I was really close to.

But, you’re right. I need to just give it time, and chill, I guess.

Thanks again.

 

[Bobbi]

It’s like if they’d said it’s totally cool that you’re in a queer relationship, we just don’t want to look at it. Like, you can be gay, so long as you act straight.

I've experienced that with poly-- "It's okay, and I love you, but no PDA around me, please." I got this from my cousin whom I'm really close with. She is Christian and it goes against her beliefs. She only knew me with my then husband. When she came to visit with her new husband that she got engaged to in 7 days and married in a month, I did not hold back the PDA at all. My partner and I have a way we are and I'm not going to change who I am to satisfy her religion. After all, if she can marry a stranger, I can be affectionate with my life partner. They actually had no issue with it and we had a great visit. They really liked seeing us in love, and how well he treats me and how happy we are.

All to say, they only think it will be weird because they haven't experienced it yet. Had they just gone with the flow, they probably would have calmed down after meeting your partner and had a good time. It sucks when people cannot get past their fear of the unknown. Sometimes you just need to force it.

 

[Alita]

I've experienced that with poly. "It's okay, and I love you, but no PDA around me, please." I got this from my cousin whom I'm really close with. She is Christian and it goes against her beliefs. She only knew me with my then husband. When she came to visit with her new husband that she got engaged to in 7 days and married in a month, I did not hold back the PDAs at all. My partner and I have a way we are and I'm not going to change who I am to satisfy her religion. After all, if she can marry a stranger, I can be affectionate with my life partner. They actually had no issue with it and we had a great visit. They really liked seeing us in love, and how well he treats me and how happy we are.

All to say, they only think it will be weird because they haven't experienced it yet. Had they just went with the flow they probably would have calmed down after meeting your partner and had a good time. It sucks when people cannot get passed their fear of the unknown. Sometimes you just need to force it.

Thank you for sharing this and adding this perspective, I appreciate it.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Alita,

Your friends are definitely treating your relationship with SP as wrong or immoral. Like most people, they are probably strongly influenced by their monogamous programming. They don't want to believe that polyamory can be okay. That would mean they'd have to throw all those years of programming out the window. It's a sunk-cost fallacy.

You probably have some monogamous programming to overcome, also.

Sympathetically,
Kevin T.

 

[Alita]

Hi Alita,

Your friends are definitely treating your relationship with SP as wrong or immoral. Like most people, they are probably strongly influenced by their monogamous programming. They don't want to believe that polyamory can be okay, that would mean they'd have to throw all those years of programming out the window. It's a sunk cost fallacy.

You probably have some monogamous programming to overcome also.
Sympathetically,
Kevin T.

Thanks, Kevin. I really appreciate it.

 

[GalaGirl]

But the whole thing IS just weird (their friends going poly) and I’m sad to have to kind of shut down that side of me for someone I thought I was really close to.

What are you shutting down, though? They just prefer to socialize separately because they feel weird right now. They are willing to interact with both partners, just not ready for both at once. In time, that may or may not change. But they know you are poly and date both of them.

So again... what are you having to shut down, or pretend about, or...?

I could be wrong, but it sounds like you are taking things too personally and not giving it any time.

The questions remain,: Are they being polyphobic? Do they just need time? Is this how it’s always going to be, and if so, does it even have to be a problem?

Giving it more time will answer most of those. So, give it time. After a reasonable amount of time, and you learning new info, you can make different decisions in the future.

Galagirl

 

[Alita]

What are you shutting down though? They just prefer to socialize separate because they feel weird right now. They are willing to interact with both partners. Just not ready for both at once. In time that may or may not change. But they know you are poly and date both of them.

So again... what are you having to shut down or pretend or...?

I could be wrong, but it sounds like you are taking things too personally and not giving it any time.

Giving it more time will answer most of those. Give it time. You can make different decisions in the future.

Thanks, you're right. I will And yes, I'm definitely taking it personally. I will try not to.