Awkwardly phrased questions.

[NorthCoastLady]

Hi. I don't know if anybody read through my introductory story/trainwreck of my first poly attempt, but if you didn't, I'm a married woman new to exploring the concept of poly. Concept being the key word here. I just have a few questions that I'm finding difficult to express. So if something isn't clear, I apologize in advance.

First question: If you were or are in an already committed relationship and wanted to explore polyamory, was it because you weren't receiving certain things from your partner, or was it because you discovered that you wanted to really have more then one relationship? Or was it something else? I know there's different "types" and configurations of non-monogamy, so in this case I'm stressing relationships with emotional connection and not casual sex, swinging, etc. At some point, where is the distinction between "I love you, and I feel like I want to love others" and "I love you, but this partnership is no longer working because we aren't right for each other"?

Second question: If you start a new relationship with somebody who is already in a commitment, do you wonder if you're just "filling a role" for that new person who isn't completely happy in their existing relationship? If that's the case and it is indeed set up like that, would or does it bother you? Again, I know that there are different emotional connections, different situations, and everybody is unique in how they relate to each other. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that it would bother me a great deal if I wasn't loved as a complete human being but rather seen as a role, or a distraction. Does that make sense?

Also, are these questions and concerns something that I have the right to voice, as the hypothetical person dating someone in an existing relationship? Where does one draw the line between communicating issues and butting into somebody else's business, in particular somebody else's relationship? I'm sorry if these questions seem unclear or presumptuous.


~Mer~

 

[BillNIndy]

First question: If you were or are in an already committed relationship and wanted to explore polyamory, was it because you weren't receiving certain things from your partner, or was it because you discovered that you wanted to really have more then one relationship? Or was it something else? I know there's different "types" and configurations of non-monogamy, so in this case I'm stressing relationships with emotional connection and not casual sex, swinging, etc. At some point, where is the distinction between "I love you, and I feel like I want to love others" and "I love you, but this partnership is no longer working because we aren't right for each other"?

Second question: If you start a new relationship with somebody who is already in a commitment, do you wonder if you're just "filling a role" for that new person who isn't completely happy in their existing relationship? If that's the case and it is indeed set up like that, would or does it bother you? Again, I know that there are different emotional connections, different situations, and everybody is unique in how they relate to each other. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that it would bother me a great deal if I wasn't loved as a complete human being but rather seen as a role, or a distraction. Does that make sense?

Also, are these questions and concerns something that I have the right to voice, as the hypothetical person dating someone in an existing relationship? Where does one draw the line between communicating issues and butting into somebody else's business, in particular somebody else's relationship? I'm sorry if these questions seem unclear or presumptuous.


~Mer~

Hey Mer,

I can understand your questions pretty well. I'll do my best to answer them in what is my opinion and I'm sure others will have their own opinions of the correct answers as well.

As to your first question: My first experience in poly was when I was married to my now ex-wife. At the time of our decision to bring in another true poly partner into our marriage, it wasn't about filling a void. It was more about how that we found someone that we both had a strong connection with. I have also tried swinging with my partner and I think that is one of the main differences. A lot of times in swinging, I have found that you are filling a void for a certain type of physical connection. With poly, I have found that generally I was completely satisfied with my relationship with my wife at the time and I just never felt that it was "natural" to only have enough love to give one person. I always explain it like this: As a child, you love many people; mother, father, grandmother, grandfather, siblings, etc. For the majority of people, you don't love one MORE than the other, but they all offer a different type of love that meets different needs for your development.

My opinion is that when you are poly, it is the same. It's not that you love your partners any less or need to fill a void, but at the same time, each relationship provides a different set of dynamics that can be very fulfilling in different ways. The relationships don't have to detract from one another. I've always found it very easy to establish a close emotional connection with people and develop profound feelings of love towards people who I wasn't even intimate with. Poly just lets you explore this without judgment or feelings of guilt. For me, poly is just part of who I am and I need to have strong emotional connections with multiple people.

As far as the distinction between the two questions? I think that is something that you feel within your relationship. You know if you are wanting to do poly as an escape from a fractured relationship or if you want to experience true love with multiple people. In a perfect world, the goal is complete compersion.

Now, to your second question; It would bother me tremendously if I felt as though I was a distraction for someone who wasn't happy in their marriage. I am involved right now with a wonderful woman, T, who is married. I have spent a lot of time with her and her husband on a social level and know for a fact that they are both completely in love. They could live a life of monogamy and be forever happy with it, but they also believe the same as I do in that love is a infinite resource. The only true restriction on having meaningful, deep relationships is time. I would never allow myself to be treated as though I was not valued or that I was simply a distraction.

T makes me KNOW (I don't want to use feel, because I truly know) that I am loved for me as a person and that I am loved deeply.

You MOST CERTAINLY have a right to voice any questions/concerns that you have along the way. As a matter of fact, I truly think that you can't have a successful poly relationship WITHOUT voicing these concerns. Take a look at this website. Many married couples will identify a new partner as a "secondary" partner. Personally, in my situation, my girlfriend and I hate these terms and prefer that everyone is on equal ground. Being called "secondary" puts off the connotation that you are not as important as the primary, which is often not the case.

But, in terms for someone to understand how they fit into an already established relationship or marriage, this would be a good place to start looking. A lot of the fears and questions you have about where you fit or what is "butting in" should be discussed early and frequently. Open communication is the key to any relationship, but even more so in poly.

I hope my opinion helps you in some fashion figure things out. Please never hesitate to message me on here if you want to talk or need a sounding board. (I know that this community, for the most part, is always here to be supportive and helpful with most everyone.)

Best wishes!

Bill

 

[WhatHappened]

As far as I'm concerned, yes, you do have a right to ask things in your relationships, if they concern you, and help you understand the relationship, your boyfriend, and your roles in each others' lives.

For me, dating a married man, I initially accepted it when he said there was nothing lacking in their marriage. After two years, I came to believe I was filling all sorts of voids that his marriage left. At a very basic level, the fact that she was out with her boyfriend and various other men all the time. There were many others, which I'd be happy to tell you about in PM. I believe he genuinely loves me, but I believe in part that's because I was filling emotional voids he realized his wife isn't filling.

Yes, I do have a problem with it. Maybe there's some configuration in which I'd be okay with that, but in my particular circumstances, I came to take exception to giving all that a wife should give, while she was getting all the actual benefits of being the wife, while it was assumed I would be fine on my own.

Gently put: Honey, he's killing himself to take care of you. You need to step up to the plate and start being the one to take care of him, too.

 

[Poly85]

Well when I first played with the idea I was 18 and engaged. I was very unhappy and tried to break things off with him. He didn't want to let me go and suggested that we try dating others while still being together. I foolishly agreed. Well I started dating one guy that I ended falling in love with. There where others, but they didn't go anywhere. I ended up leaving my fiancé and marring my new guy.
9 years later I am happily married and we just decided 4 months ago to try poly. So far things are going great! I have a boyfriend and my husband is working on starting a relationship with another woman.

Now I want to point out that the first time I tried poly, it was for the wrong reasons! I was unhappy and wanted to end it. This time around I am very happy. I think we decided to try it for various reasons. We where very young when we married, so we have very little experience dating and feel like we kinda missed out. We wanted to experience sex with others and it turned us on thinking about the other one with someone else. At first I felt like it was more about the sex, but I realized that it's about more than that for me. I've realized that you can love more than one person.

I do get things from my boyfriend that I don't get from my husband. For example my husband isn't very social and doesn't talk a lot, and he doesn't like cuddling, but my BF does.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

At some point, where is the distinction between "I love you, and I feel like I want to love others" and "I love you, but this partnership is no longer working because we aren't right for each other"?

I take the approach that each relationship should be fulfilling on its own merits. If you have problems inside a relationship, you'll never resolve them by dating someone else.

It's one thing to say, for example, "I like model trains and you don't, so I'd like to find an activity partner to play model trains with." If that develops into a romance, cool. But that's completely different from "My emotional needs are not being fulfilled in this relationship." That kind of issue needs to be satisfied within.

Second question: If you start a new relationship with somebody who is already in a commitment, do you wonder if you're just "filling a role" for that new person who isn't completely happy in their existing relationship?

Not personally, because it's something I'm aware of and make a point of finding out about. With a bit of intuition and experience, it's not overly difficult to judge how sound someone's relationship is just by the tone and focus when they talk about them. If they avoid talking about it, that's a red flag for me. It could be a red flag that they actually have problems, or it could just be a red flag that they're just too privacy-oriented to be compatible with me. I prefer open, honest communication.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that it would bother me a great deal if I wasn't loved as a complete human being but rather seen as a role, or a distraction. Does that make sense?

Absolutely. I completely agree.

Different strokes for different folks. "Role" dating can work for some people, usually Solo Polys who are more interested in meeting different needs with different people and not having any kind of serious committed type relationship. These people often see themselves or their jobs or their kids as their "primary" relationship, and just allow other people to fill in the gaps. Nothing wrong with that approach, but obviously it doesn't work for everyone.

Also, are these questions and concerns something that I have the right to voice, as the hypothetical person dating someone in an existing relationship?

Damn right! I think people always have the right to voice pertinent questions and concerns.

Where does one draw the line between communicating issues and butting into somebody else's business, in particular somebody else's relationship?

It's not an absolute. Potential partners can tell you when you're getting too nosy. Some people are open and will tell you anything, like Auto and I. Others are a little more private and might get uncomfortable if you pry. It never hurts to throw in a disclaimer that you won't offended if someone tells you you're getting too nosy too soon. That being said, if you've been with someone for a while and you're getting more committed, I would be concerned if they kept up the privacy shield so strongly. Personally, I would start to worry that they're hiding something deliberately.

 

[paxtonaddleman]

Re

To be honest, I think there are as many answers to your question as there are poly relationships, but I have to say, I have never met anyone who was happy & fulfilled in a poly situation who wasn't happy & fulfilled in all of the one-to-one relationships within the group, and happy & fulfilled with herself alone.

For myself and my own relationship, I am not a people person. I love my work and I love being immersed in my research. Building even casual friendships with other people takes effort for me, and that is effort I almost always feel could be better spent on my work, my partner, or the small group of people I consider to be very good friends. Even spending too much time with my partner feels like a waste, as he is not interested in discussing all of the things that I'm into, and he gets too fidgety after a few hours at home and needs to be out where the people are.

My partner thrives on interaction with people. For him, to sit in his office or at home all day is torture. He needs daily conversations and feedback from a lot of people, and there is no way I could provide all of the intimate & romantic contact that he craves. In our version of poly, he has the freedom to build relationships with other people, whether those relationships are networking for business, casual friendships with people he can hang out with at the bar, or romantic relationships with other women - and I have the freedom to stay home and do all of the things I love to do on my own.

 

[NorthCoastLady]

Thank you for all the thoughtful, articulate replies. The more I read and research about poly, the more I realize that I need to do a lot more work on myself before even attempting to dip my toes in. Communication skills, self-awareness, and most importantly, getting a firm grip on my MDD.

The biggest lesson I'm getting just by reading through this forum so far is that it's vitally important to treat each potential partner as feeling human beings with needs of their own. Looking back at the Mess (yes, capitalized..it was that big for me), I realize that I was seeing this couple as an ideal, a concept, and not two people with personalities of their own, with 20 years of past. It seems like all three of us were trying to push a relationship and make it fit before we all knew each other.

As badly as it went though, it still opened up a whole new world for me. Am I ready? Not in the least!

~Mer~

 

[WhatHappened]

If you start a new relationship with somebody who is already in a commitment, do you wonder if you're just "filling a role" for that new person who isn't completely happy in their existing relationship?

For myself ...Even spending too much time with my partner feels like a waste....

My partner thrives on interaction with people....he has the freedom to [have]romantic relationships with other women - and I have the freedom to stay home and do all of the things I love to do on my own.

I'd be curious to know how the women he builds romantic relationships with would feel about the original question. Has he had a long-term OSO? Do any of them come to feel that they're filling a role for him?

 

[CattivaGattina]

First question: If you were or are in an already committed relationship and wanted to explore polyamory, was it because you weren't receiving certain things from your partner, or was it because you discovered that you wanted to really have more then one relationship? Or was it something else? I know there's different "types" and configurations of non-monogamy, so in this case I'm stressing relationships with emotional connection and not casual sex, swinging, etc. At some point, where is the distinction between "I love you, and I feel like I want to love others" and "I love you, but this partnership is no longer working because we aren't right for each other"?

I was always a serial monogamist growing up (hadn't heard of open relationships or poly until I was about 23). When I would start having feelings for multiple people I would always end up choosing one and cutting ties from all others because that's what I thought you were supposed to do. After getting with my now husband Woodsmith and I started having these feelings since I had met people in both open and/or poly relationships I knew that there was another option for me that would allow me to stay with him but also be able to be with others I found myself wanting to be with.

Second question: If you start a new relationship with somebody who is already in a commitment, do you wonder if you're just "filling a role" for that new person who isn't completely happy in their existing relationship? If that's the case and it is indeed set up like that, would or does it bother you? Again, I know that there are different emotional connections, different situations, and everybody is unique in how they relate to each other. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that it would bother me a great deal if I wasn't loved as a complete human being but rather seen as a role, or a distraction. Does that make sense?

All of my other relationships (my first foray with Lamain and Darkeyes, my 18 month one with Seven and now my relationship with Tighearn) have all been with someone else who is already in a commitment. With Lamain and Darkeyes I never felt like I was filling a role, more that the three of us were seeing if this was something we wanted. Taught us we were better as friends. With Seven I did always feel like I was filling a role (or more exactly time when his wife wasn't with him) instead of him wanting me because he wanted me. That one hurt a lot but because I was in love with him I didn't stand up for myself and leave the relationship when it was clear nothing was going to change. With Tighearn even though we have only been together a short period of time, he (and his wife/poly family) have already made it clear that myself (and Woodsmith) are a part of his family and that my relationship with him is just as important as anything else in his life.

 

[LovingRadiance]

To be honest, I think there are as many answers to your question as there are poly relationships, but I have to say, I have never met anyone who was happy & fulfilled in a poly situation who wasn't happy & fulfilled in all of the one-to-one relationships within the group, and happy & fulfilled with herself alone.

I completely agree with this.
BUT-sometimes people struggle through unhappy and unfulfilled times on their path to fulfillment and poly can enter AT ANY POINT.

I learned of poly-in a time when I was unfulfilled.
However-I was always poly, I just wasn't always living it. I always loved multiple people. Prior to marriage I was in open relationships. However-I thought I had to be mono if I was married, so I tried (and failed).
I did NOT start new relationships from that standpoint, I already HAD two relationships (I had an affair with my best friend).
But-it was a holy nightmare to clean up (certainly not advisable).

On the other hand, I think it's possible for people to find poly in a time of dissatisfaction, meet other polys, socialize and get to know them and in the process-get to know themselves, find better (healthier) strategies in their existing relationship(s) and create something satisfying and healthy all of the way around.

There is NOTHING wrong with wanting to ensure that you aren't just filling a gap in an existing relationship for a moment.

But-be careful of how you express AND how you interpret it.

For example; My husband (Maca) doesn't have any interest in reading or libraries. But my bf (GG) and I both LOVE going to the bookstores and libraries and hanging out. That doesn't mean that GG is "filling a gap" in the sense of not being a full partner to me. But-it does mean that I am filling a gap in my life that Maca isn't interested in being a part of. Does that make sense?
Similarly-I love to play pool and so does Maca. But GG doesn't care one way or another. That I do those things with Maca doesn't mean that he is "filling a missing gap" in my relationship with GG. It does mean that I am filling the gap in my life-of having someone to enjoy with me, an activity that I enjoy.
Additionally; my best friend and I talk all of the time about education, mathematics, statistics and psychology... NEITHER Maca or GG is interested OR educated enough to keep up with the conversation. But that doesn't mean that my best friend is a "fill in". It means that we've found OUR common ground for building OUR relationship and that we have each filled a gap in our lives for needing someone who enjoys discussions about these things which are meaningful for us.

 

[kdt26417]

Re (from OP):

"If you were or are in an already committed relationship and wanted to explore polyamory, was it because you weren't receiving certain things from your partner, or was it because you discovered that you wanted to really have more then one relationship?"

While I can't pretend nothing was amiss in my monogamous marriage, I am still inclined to say that my main thought was that I wanted to really have more than one relationship. That's just me, one case out of millions.

Re:

"Or was it something else?"

Oh, well, we could say that I had fallen in love with someone outside my marriage, so that is more specifically the reason I decided I wanted to start living polyamorously. Major changes in my perspective about life (and its various issues) had already set the stage though by then.

Re:

"At some point, where is the distinction between, 'I love you, and I feel like I want to love others,' and, 'I love you, but this partnership is no longer working because we aren't right for each other?'"

I don't know that there's a point that separates those two. They overlap. One can say both in various situations and mean both. One can say neither in various other situations and mean neither. It's not like "increasingly poly = will no longer want to be in original relationship." Unless: One's original partner says, "No, you can't be poly," when one persistently wants to be poly. Then I guess at some point you're forced to choose between your original partner's "monogamous wishes" and your own "polyamorous wishes."

Re:

"If you start a new relationship with somebody who is already in a commitment, do you wonder if you're just 'filling a role' for that new person who isn't completely happy in their existing relationship?"

Depends. In my case I probably was "filling a role" to a certain extent. But I didn't mind. I was happy to provide that, especially since I feel that it helped save that person's marriage with her then- (and now-) husband.

Re:

"If that's the case and it is indeed set up like that, would or does it bother you?"

Depends. In my case no, didn't really bother me. Heck isn't that one of poly's best features anyhow? Different people bring different things to the same table?

Re:

"I guess what I'm trying to get at is that it would bother me a great deal if I wasn't loved as a complete human being but rather seen as a role, or a distraction. Does that make sense?"

Oh sure, if you thought you were being objectified, that would probably bother you. I'm just saying that it's possible to be loved as a complete human being while also being particularly valued for something unique that you offer.

Re:

"Also, are these questions and concerns something that I have the right to voice, as the hypothetical person dating someone in an existing relationship?"

Well of course. You have every right to ask those questions.

Re:

"Where does one draw the line between communicating issues and butting into somebody else's business, in particular somebody else's relationship?"

Dunno; would need to know more details of a specific situation to make that kind of a judgment call.

So much for general theory. Now let's get on with discussing your particular situation. It sounds like you had a rough go of poly the first go-around, and need some time to study and learn and re-center yourself before tackling poly again. Then when you do start again, make sure you take it slow, and really get to know the people *as people,* before coming to romantic agreements with them.

Hope that helps,
Kevin T.

 

[NorthCoastLady]

"So much for general theory. Now let's get on with discussing your particular situation. It sounds like you had a rough go of poly the first go-around, and need some time to study and learn and re-center yourself before tackling poly again. Then when you do start again, make sure you take it slow, and really get to know the people *as people,* before coming to romantic agreements with them."


You're correct in that assessment, my first attempt was a huge failure, and while I can't speak for the couple involved, I can certainly take a look at my own mistakes, lol.

The good news is that the whole experience was quite an eye-opener on many levels. Even though it didn't last.. there were moments that felt very right to me. There were concepts that just made sense and weren't just a product of the situation. So I'm taking the advice offered, putting the practice of poly on the shelf, and focusing on myself, my marriage, etc. This forum is a godsend.

~Mer~

 

[vanquish]

I read this thread when it was first posted and held off on responding. I think you've gotten a lot better answers than I could have given.

I did pop back in to ask a similar question to yours...hopefully tangental...and it's this:

How much of being poly is the need for more stimulation?

I say that because it seems to me that (and I have to choose my words carefully) if all of your time was filled up with your first partner, there wouldn't be time for a second partner.

Now I'm a realist. No person in the world has zero down time. If your entire schedule is filled with work, sleep, errands, and family duties...what's left is entertainment/relationship/hobby time. If one person filled all that up, then having a second or third relationship would be untenable.

So you're there with your significant poly other...and you're watching tv or reading a book and you're bored. Sure, you do things with your s.o. and you love them, but you both can't be going wide open, having 10 tons of fun every single moment. Which opens up some down time that could be filled by a new relationship - be it friendship or amorous in some way.

Is being poly in some part about getting the most you can out of all the time you have by filling it with more people?

Don't want to hijack the thread and don't want to offend anyone by simply playing Devil's Advocate. What do y'all think?

 

[kdt26417]

Re:

"How much of being poly is the need for more stimulation?"

I think that varies from one person to the next. Your question seems somewhat rhetorical, as if to imply that "100%" or perhaps "any percentage is too high" is the answer. I think a modest percentage could be harmless, but I hold off on appraising any particular situation until I know the details.

Re:

"I say that because it seems to me that (and I have to choose my words carefully) if all of your time was filled up with your first partner, there wouldn't be time for a second partner."

I have no arguments with that. Polyamory is starkly different from monogamy in that one's time (and attention) is (by definition) divided between at least two partners. I guess that's one of the disadvantages of poly, unless each of those partners values the extra "me time," and/or being depended on for fewer things.

Re:

"Is being poly in some part about getting the most you can out of all the time you have by filling it with more people?"

I guess in some cases it could be -- in some part. But I think that in many cases it's more a matter of simply falling in love with more than one person, without having planned to do so.

Just my perspective.
Kevin T.

 

[NorthCoastLady]

I read this thread when it was first posted and held off on responding. I think you've gotten a lot better answers than I could have given.

I did pop back in to ask a similar question to yours...hopefully tangental...and it's this:

How much of being poly is the need for more stimulation?

I say that because it seems to me that (and I have to choose my words carefully) if all of your time was filled up with your first partner, there wouldn't be time for a second partner.

Now I'm a realist. No person in the world has zero down time. If your entire schedule is filled with work, sleep, errands, and family duties...what's left is entertainment/relationship/hobby time. If one person filled all that up, then having a second or third relationship would be untenable.

So you're there with your significant poly other...and you're watching tv or reading a book and you're bored. Sure, you do things with your s.o. and you love them, but you both can't be going wide open, having 10 tons of fun every single moment. Which opens up some down time that could be filled by a new relationship - be it friendship or amorous in some way.

Is being poly in some part about getting the most you can out of all the time you have by filling it with more people?

Don't want to hijack the thread and don't want to offend anyone by simply playing Devil's Advocate. What do y'all think?

Hi. Not offended, it's an interesting question. I've thought about that, too. I'm a bit of an introvert, so the thought of filling up my all my down time with people sounds exhausting. There are plenty of evenings when I'm just sitting around with my SO reading and watching TV. Sure, it gets boring sometimes, but that's just life, imo. There's no guarantee that any new relationship won't end up exactly the same way, in time. I can see where you're coming from, but in my case, I don't feel that's the reason I'd like to explore poly. I enjoy my alone time way too much.

 

[Tonberry]

Before I met my ex-husband, I was already poly, but didn't know about polyamory. I just knew that liking someone never stopped me from liking another, and was very worried about the idea of monogamy.
But I got convinced that when I found "the one", things would be different.

They were not. I felt the same way. I was happy to have a committed relationship, but I wasn't sure why I couldn't have more than one of them. We talked about it and he initially said he didn't know if he could do that, then decided to give it a go, then later said he was poly too and always thought he was just being indecisive... then after we broke up, said he was never poly in the first place.

So, kind of a roller coaster. When we opened up I had nobody in mind, and I waited about a year and a half, talking about it every 6 months or so to make sure we were still on the same page. After a year and a half he met someone and I took it as a green light for me to pursue other relationships (we did talk about it, and he did say it was fine for both of us to pursue someone).

Long story short, we both got rejected but I met someone else, Seamus, and started a relationship with him. He was already poly, and while he had a girlfriend, it was so casual he didn't even call her that. They broke up so early in Seamus and my relationship that she had pretty much no impact at all on it.

Since then, I have not had another partner. I have pursued one and got rejected, and I'm interested in someone right now, but he's not currently my partner (I like going slowly and seeing where things go. We expressed interest in each other about 6 months ago but both wanted more time to get to know each other better as friends first before anything happened).

The other guy currently does not have any committed partner, so I can't tell you what it's like to start a relationship with someone who has partners. I talked for a few months with a guy who had 2 long-term girlfriends but it didn't end up going anywhere. Still, I didn't get the feeling that he was trying to fill a gap that his other girlfriends had failed to fill. Each relationship is unique, and I don't think they're meant to "make up" for one another.