Bad triangle. Advice, experiences?

[Awarita]

Hi,

When I met my boyfriend we were really united by the idea of an open relationship. We do have high libidos, he really likes company of women, I really enjoy company of men. Finally someone to whom I could connect, finally someone intelligent, finally someone with whom I could experience true love, a real deep relationship, and not limit my self with imposed rules by creating our own ones. I am so made for that.

Everything was really rainbows and unicorns in the ambiance of true openness, but very soon he fell in love with another woman (via internet), without us two even having decided our own rules and limits.

I clearly stated I was not happy with being presented with a fait accompli. He was dividing rapidly into two worlds, building a wall between me and her (and him) over a few months.

My idea of respect, cooperation and openness was confronted with a totally different reality. Separation, misunderstandings, defensiveness.

Meanwhile, the other girl was rainbows and unicorns with him, being presented an apparently beautiful view of a polyamoric relationship, with me in the background being torn down emotionally.

I stated many times I am not happy with it but I also know that I cannot and I do not want to limit another human being. He said he wants to see her anyway. So he did.

I know there is nothing that can stop love, not even common sense, I knew I cannot stop them. Fortunately she has some common sense and is aware that this is not going to work.

After a violent confrontation we now are in a beautiful triangle:

1. Me, unhappy and emotionally torn down, in love with him.
2. She, unhappy and emotionally torn down, in love with him.
3. He, emotionally torn down by two women that he loves, that do not tolerate each other.

Something that was supposed to join us together, now separates us.

I suppose she must be a great person (if my bf loves her, she must be a great person, no doubt) but I just see no way in which we could be friendly to each other. I understand the confusion that my partner feels, he's conscious of our pain and he has his own pain, too. I also understand her, she's in love, confused, torn down, as I am.

But in the end, in totally animal terms, she is an intruder in my territory, she didn't ask for permission to enter. He dropped her into my territory.

I just cannot accept her, it's not her fault, it's simply that I can't forgive the fact that things were done against my will. That's not how you do it. Difficult to be undone.

Time passes and things just don't go away themselves, she does not disappear magically. Despite our good will, the pattern stays the same. This is so dysfunctional in the long term, seriously.

Let time pass and we'll get used to it? I'm not very happy with that idea, it's like a stain in the fabric of your life that you can't just pretend is not there.

Leaving? I'm in love, I don't want to.

I'm also angry with him because she is getting all the rainbows and unicorns part now - which was mine before she appeared - in a dreamland internet world full of promises, totally separate from reality, the reality of daily life, frequent bad moods, washing the dishes, farting, hurtful comments, cleaning the toilet and cutting your nails. The part of reality that she does not know yet. Their bubbleland broke my bubbleland... and I miss my bubble as hell.

"I love you but I cannot force you to anything, if you're with me it's because you want it, you are free to go" - kind of something like that is what I hear, and it is true, though sounds ugly and hurts as fuck.

I invite you to sharing your thoughts, experiences and maybe possible solutions, points of view that I cannot see.
How to turn this mess into something that works? There must be a way.
Where's the opportunity that I cannot notice from my emotionally exhausted point of view?

Who the hell invented that polyamory thing anyway, Jaysus

Thanks guys. Love!

 

[graviton]

sounds to me like you were happy with no rules for yourself until you found out that also meant no rules for him. We need more details because I see nothing wrong here except that for some reason you don't like her and want her to go away. Why?

 

[bookbug]

I have no idea why you are hostile toward the other female. She did not break the relationship between you and your bf - that is on the two of you, or possibly just him if it came down the way you described. If so, he was the one who was insensitive to your feelings; he was the one who became distant; he was the one who became secretive; he was the one who created the situation without your full consent. She did none of those things. And if you're trying to tell yourself she deserves your sense of threat (albeit, I know you logically realize she is a victim too) as he did those things because of her, I ask you: is he not an adult responsible for his own behavior? All of that is on him. Yet when we love somebody, it's easy to shift blame away from the one we love toward a bystander.

It seems you are asking the wrong questions here - will she disappear? Should you leave? It would seem that if you love him, and he loves both of you, you might want to look at what behaviors need to occur to fix your relationship - besides hoping the other person will leave. I can guarantee you, she could leave tomorrow, and you might breathe a sigh of relief momentarily, but it will fix nothing. The issues that created the problem in the first place will still exist.

 

[Awarita]

We need more details because I see nothing wrong here except that for some reason you don't like her

Hi.

My rule is "everything is OK with everyone's consent".
There must be consent, reassurance and an understanding, loving atmosphere, from that point everything is possible.

I stated openly I am not happy with that at that moment, he proceeded anyway. Would anyone feel loved and safe if ignored?

The "some reason" is that there was no mutual consent for letting her in our lives. My feelings and my will were not respected.

Also it was really hurtful for me him finding a girl before setting up the rules inside our relationship. I found it very surprising of him, and unfair.

We did not set them because there was no rush, specially in full bloom of fresh, 7-months love.

I said "hey, you have a very unique opportunity to create a great, open relationship and you're not doing it right now at the very beggining", he just said "I have to try it" so I said "ok". He just selectively sticked with my "OK".

I don't know if I like her as a person, I don't know her.

I have a strong need to feel the most important. I have a strong need of consent. I feel betrayed.

 

[Awarita]

8996588 17

My rule is "everything is OK with everyone's consent".

he was the one who became distant; he was the one who became secretive; he was the one who created the situation without your full consent. [...] I can guarantee you, she could leave tomorrow, and you might breathe a sigh of relief momentarily, but it will fix nothing. The issues that created the problem in the first place will still exist.

Of course she's not the one to blame. I've spoken to her and told her so, too. I am angry with my boyfriend, he's the one unfair to me. It's exactly the way you say.

I do know very well that her disappearance would not change the fact that my boyfriend was not fair to me and my bad feelings about it. That's why I'm posting here!

The point is, I don't know how to manage this situation...

you might want to look at what behaviors need to occur to fix your relationship

Exactly. That's what I am asking about. Your experiences, opinions.

 

[Magdlyn]

Well, you are jealous, pure and simple. Yes, you also feel territorial.

You and your bf had an idea of "polysexuality," to satisfy your libidos. This sound fine, on paper. True love between you and bf, casual sexual dalliances with others just for lusty fun.

However, you didn't realize that kissing, making out, petting, intercourse, all that sexy fun often leads to feelings. Bonding, talking, laughing, sharing life stories, this comes from lying around the bed or couch, BEFORE or AFTER the sex is happening. Sharing food and drink while dating also increases bonding. All this can lead to: infatuation, "new relationship energy" (NRE), puppy love, what you call "unicorns and rainbows," which may or may not turn out to be the real thing over time.

I won't lie, I've been actively practicing polyamory for 5 years, and dabbled back in 1999-2000 as well, and I still get twinges of feeling territorial. Our monogamist programming can lead to this awful territorial feeling when our partner falls for someone else. Hearing about how exciting the new partner is can feel quite unsettling! Some poly people claim to never get jealous. That's not my experience.

I get more jealous when my bf finds someone new, than when my gf finds someone new. I think because I have been with her 5 years and we really understand each other. I've only known bf 2 years, and he didn't date anyone new until we'd been together 18 months, so this past half year has been hard on me, getting used to him being in NRE with several people he's dated.

I think much communication is in order so that you 3 can stop making each other miserable. First you need to get that sex and love can sometimes happen separately, but often go hand in hand. It's not unfair, it's not a betrayal, it's just what happens. Then, you need to explore your jealousy (hint: it's usually rooted in a fear of loss). Then, know that you do not need to be good friends with your bf's new gf, you can be separate. If he talks about her too much, or not enough, you figure out your comfort zone around "need to know" and let him know how much you want him to share.

 

[Awarita]

Thank you, Magdlyn, for your post. I like your point of view

Yes, it's the first time in my life I am jealous, quite late I think as for my 29.

Just to clear things out, their relationship is rather about love, not about sex. And to be honest, their casual sex wouldn't bother me that much. It's not really that much about the libidos in this case.

They say that love is not a 100 that is divided in parts, but is infinite.
I do feel that my initial 100 has fallen down dramatically. To stick with this example, I do feel as if I was getting 50 now and her getting a 90.

Fear of loss? yeah, a bit, for sure, but it's rather that love energy that was directed to me that was suddenly switched to someone else and I am left with .. OK, leftovers would be a bad word, but you know what I mean. Somehow - yeah, territorially - I think it was "mine" and it was "stolen from me".

Like a junkie, I admit, I WANT MY 100 BACK. If he has more to share, then share it, by not at my cost.

It seems from your post that you're rather flexible in your rules (eg. "it's just what happens"). If your partner did something against your will or without your consent, is simply putting up with it an option? Respect for another one's feelings seems quite a fundamental rule to me.

I think it demands a lot of faith in the future to keep on communicating when the situation is, as you call it, miserable, with ups and downs and bumps. At the end, we all want peace.

Cheers!

 

[LoveBunny]

What rules did he break? Did you have a "no falling in love" rule?

 

[Awarita]

What rules did he break? Did you have a "no falling in love" rule?

Good point.
Unfortunately we are talking about common sense and non-written rules, since he decided to dive into another relationship without us having the rules set.

And the common sense rule to me is - when your girlfriend needs reassurance and feels insecure, you do as much as you can to make her feel secure, not leave her alone crying on the next room and keep on doing your stuff.

And the common sense rule to me is - first you set the rules that both agree to, and then you try it, not first you try it and then see how it works.

And the common sense rule to me is - if it's not working, you stop doing it, figure out why, solve things and move on.

Right?

 

[vanquish]

I won't lie, I've been actively practicing polyamory for 5 years, and dabbled back in 1999-2000 as well, and I still get twinges of feeling territorial. Our monogamist programming can lead to this awful territorial feeling when our partner falls for someone else. Hearing about how exciting the new partner is can feel quite unsettling! Some poly people claim to never get jealous. That's not my experience.

I get more jealous when my bf finds someone new, than when my gf finds someone new. I think because I have been with her 5 years and we really understand each other. I've only known bf 2 years, and he didn't date anyone new until we'd been together 18 months, so this past half year has been hard on me, getting used to him being in NRE with several people he's dated.

Just as an aside, it is really great to hear that a "vet" still feels this way too. Not that I'm happy for you to be in pain, just good to know that I am in-line with well-adjusted people such as yourself.

 

[BrigidsDaughter]

He started another relationship before they had a chance to make any agreements based on the OP. It's not that he broke any rules, he just jumped off the cliff w/o talking to the OP about her wants and needs and how to ensure that those were still getting met before getting into a new relationship. The OP, I believe, thought that they would have those types of conversations before a third party entered the picture. Also, if his relationship with this other person is LD and only over the internet. It could feel to the OP that even when he's home with her, if he's online, she's not really getting any of his attention.

I would suggest finding out your love languages and clearly explaining to him how he needs to behave towards you, to show you love in a way that you are more naturally inclined to feel loved.

 

[GalaGirl]

I just cannot accept her, it's not her fault, it's simply that I can't forgive the fact that things were done against my will.

WHO did the things against your willingness? You in not laying out your boundaries? Him in jumping the gun? Metamour for not checking in with all players? All maybe co-share this problem then?

So... how did this come about? Y'all in an open model relationship that sounds (polyamorous and polysexual) there? Rather than the (monoamorous and polysexual) thing you seem to want?

No judgement or criticism -- I mean this kindly... but it doesn't sound like you guys talked enough before opening and hit some pitfall snags.

Not the end of the world. But there is no point (to me) in getting upset if you all did not take the time to talk and agree on what open relationship model you were going to joint together to practice. Could talk NOW then. It's ok to move it forward. Don't keep it in the stuck.

If there's is jealousy, more jealousy or poly hell afoot here and you guys want to stick with it and work through it and see what emerges? You guys could try. Try to better get on the same page and figure out the boundaries and shape of this thing you are trying to build together. Construcive conflict resolution.

But if you sit with yourself honestly and it's basically "apples and oranges" here in terms of preferred open model you feel happiest in? Because you want monoamorous (love share with 1 only) and polysexual (sex share with several) kinda of shape?

Best you let everyone know and you bow out than continue. Puts YOU on the healing path faster that way -- whatever it is the other people do.

Hang in there though. It sounds rough while you are doing that sorting.

You can handle this, breathe, take it one thing at a time. Don't get caught up in emotional flooding from the stress and act rashly.

You will be ok. How can people best help you at this time?

Hang in there!
Galagirl

 

[Awarita]

Glad to hear some supportive voices

BrigidsDaughter You have that awesome skill that I always lacked: explaining my 1000 words in your 10 words Thank you for your understanding.

All maybe co-share this problem then?

Probably. I just did not expect that someone could jump the gun, in human terms. It was a WTF.

Rather than the (monoamorous and polysexual) thing you seem to want?

I'm open to anything that might surge in life, anything that I might not even expected. One rule - if we're all happy with it.

No judgement or criticism -- I mean this kindly... but it doesn't sound like you guys talked enough before opening and hit some

Well we definitely did not and that's why I'm angry! Of course we should have talked about it, but when I tried to, several times, there was no connection, he didn't seem to listen, he was too busy chatting with her ... probably about polyamory!

Now it's a bit too late, it's all a mess, she is quitting, he's with a broken heart, believing that it all does not make any sense, considering splitting up with me. Everything as it's not supposed to be.

Could talk NOW then. It's ok to move it forward. Don't keep it in the stuck.

I wish and I agree. He's not been too cooperative since he met her. It's difficult to talk when we're all a bit angry with each other, but I hope we all find strength to get through this. There is still a lot of love around in us, despite everything.

or poly hell afoot here and you guys want to stick with it and work through it and see what emerges? You guys could try.

Well, so what I've been through has a name! Awww ^^
Sometimes I feel I am the only one concerned about the quality of communication and quality of the relationship. These things demand cooperation, I suppose. I don't want to be this bla-bla kind of girl telling my boyfriend how's he supposed to behave, civilizing him.

But if you sit with yourself honestly and it's basically "apples and oranges" here in terms of preferred open model you feel happiest in? Because you want monoamorous (love share with 1 only) and polysexual (sex share with several) kinda of shape?

"Kinda" is a good description. I want to be his primary partner, with him being my primary partner, emotionally and physically. And whatever or whoever emerges along, is OK when everyone's OK with it.

Knowing myself, I'd probably go for having a primary partner, having sexual adventures and emotional friendships along. With his clear primary-ness. Somehow I expect something similar from him. I don't want to be a half-partner.

Best you let everyone know and you bow out than continue. Puts YOU on the healing path faster that way -- whatever it is the other people do.

I still have hope, but feel a bit helpless at the same time. I'd love him to understand how I feel and see him have the desire to fix this stuff, but it does not happen naturally or at least not as fast as I would expect. It's really so easy, in the end I just want to feel understood, cared and loved.

You can handle this, breathe, take it one thing at a time. Don't get caught up in emotional flooding from the stress and act rashly.
You will be ok. How can people best help you at this time?
Hang in there!

Thank you, I needed to hear that.
Supportive voices appreciated.
Yeah, emotional floodings, It's been really tough, now I manage it a bit better. Adrenalin sucks.

I hope to show this thread to my bf later on, so that it moves things on after our storm is gone... if we're still together, hopefully.

It would be of great help - translating my emotional words into male language so that if/when he sees it, he'd get the point. We women tend to do a lot of bla-bla.


And here's a postcard that I prepared for Valentine's Day... Smile, everyone, and I wish you you're never in my shoes!

 

[SNeacail]

Unfortunately we are talking about common sense and non-written rules, since he decided to dive into another relationship without us having the rules set.

And the common sense rule to me is - when your girlfriend needs reassurance and feels insecure, you do as much as you can to make her feel secure, not leave her alone crying on the next room and keep on doing your stuff.

And the common sense rule to me is - first you set the rules that both agree to, and then you try it, not first you try it and then see how it works.

And the common sense rule to me is - if it's not working, you stop doing it, figure out why, solve things and move on.

Right?

Quite a lot of ASSUMPTIONS going on here. Then again, at 29 I too assumed that what was common sense for me was also common sense for my husband. At 45 and 23 years of marriage, I now know better. You may have thought you were telling him what the problem was, but I can almost guarantee he did not hear what you thought you were saying. Not necessarily because he wasn't listening, but his brain was interpreting it differently than your was. Now, trying to talk to him WHILE he is talking/texting/messaging the other gf is a guaranteed way to assure he won't hear or understand anything you say.

Get over the ANGRY and start having discussions about what went wrong and how to better handle it in the future. If you are feeling ignored, you need to say "I'm feeling ignored, I need more attention, etc from you". Discuss what you are expecting from him when you say such things, don't just assume he knows what you expect because it's common sense to you.
Yes, you were hurt and that needs to be addressed. Don't place blame, the both of you made mistakes. When you say _______, what response are you expecting? When he says ______________, what response is he expecting? When you say _________, what does he think it means and vice versa.

Like Mags was trying to say, you may want a "no falling in love rule", but that's not a reasonable expectation and it will only set everyone up for failure. Read around here, see where others struggle and discuss it together while setting up your boundaries. What is reasonable? What do we do when we screw up?

Good Luck to you!

 

[GalaGirl]

Sounds like first is basic triage/first aid for you then if you are emotional flooding. That's alright. Do what you gotta, breathe. Take a break from all this hooha. Later when you are ready to think it out? I would start here:

One rule - if we're all happy with it.

Happy with WHAT? Just in general? "happy" to me is a possible "outcome" but not a "rule" or "code of conduct" or "behavior guideline" or "agreements for expected behavior" or anything close to that.

Maybe learning to be more specific helps this polyship's communication.

Sometimes I feel I am the only one concerned about the quality of communication and quality of the relationship. These things demand cooperation,

Yep. It does. Welcome to the polymath. The health of the overall polyship is made up of all the little "mini relationships" inside it. You cannot hop on a waterbed without sending waves and knocking the other people sitting on it wobbly. To what degree and how deeply it affects you depends on the open relationship model you are practicing.

"Be Happy we have pizza" is not things you can measure if they got done or not like "Get the ingredients, assemble on the crust, bake in the oven, take out before burning, eat it. You are in charge of groceries, you are in charge of cooking, I do the washing up later." When things are clear cut like that? If something does go wrong in the process, if you know the expected "polyship pizza behavior" you can solve what went haywire (forgot cheese, oven too hot, person not pulling their weight, etc.)

"Be happy we have pizza" --- not so much. One guy brings fresh ingredients, one bring a frozen pizza to heat up, one brings a picture of a pizza in a magazine. Things that maybe help the individuals be happy they all have a pizza they like. But does the GROUP have a pizza they all like? Not so much.

People cranky things are not as they expected and maybe setting off chain reaction of grump on all layers of the polymath. I'm glad you can name what you have going on -- polyhell. Maybe show that article to them and talk it over?

Here's this article of stuff we do NOT want again. What would we like instead? What behaviors in a polyship do you expect from yourself? Him? Metamour? How do you all agree to be together? What open model are you all trying to practice? What are the dealbreakers? How do you share your time with hinge person? Money? Living space? Other stuff?

Figure out YOUR polyship's "pizza" ingredients and how y'all like it cooked might be like. Because when you can describe in in terms of what people are doing/not doing, then the others can hold that one accountable. Try it out, expect some bumps, but hopefully less jarring ones. Then you adjust and keep going and hopefully it smooths out in time.

Here is my short version for myself:

PARTNERS HAVE RIGHT TO:

• Clear communication
• Expect support from partner
• Be nurtured
• Get needs met
• Responsiveness
• Constructive feedback
• Constructive conflict resolution

PARTNERS EACH BE RESPONSIBLE FOR:

• Know and state needs, wants and limits
• Follow thru on promises.
• Know the math tiers in this config
• Tending your own first and then your partner's healths: mental, emotional, physical, spiritual. Do not ding healths intentionally or thoughtlessly.
• Emergency preparedness
• Care for own equipment/stuff
• Tell if keeping a confidence is hurting me or someone else or in the secret keeping COULD hurt them later.

MY LIMITS

A) No lying / lies of omission. 1 strike you are out. Just hard truth it to me.

B) Anything else I'll negotiate on 3 strikes you are out. More? You are not a "give serious try" player who gives holds up responsibilities in relationship. Don't play with me. Bye.

Every person has their own -- but its just to give you ideas.

And the common sense rule to me is - when your girlfriend needs reassurance and feels insecure, you do as much as you can to make her feel secure, not leave her alone crying on the next room and keep on doing your stuff.

Under my code? GF is responsible for knowing and articulating her wants, needs, and limits. Nobody can mind reader. Partners are also responsible for checking in periodically (since they supply support and nurture) and ASK wassup even if things seem fine. Gives opportunity to air out if needed. 3 ways to solve it. GF notes it, partners note it, BOTH gf and partners note it. Checks and balances.

Under your rule of "be happy" -- nobody has a clue what to do, nobody is checking. Have 0 ways at this time to nip it in the bud or put out a small fire. Could change this way of going so it doesn't become bigger fires.

And the common sense rule to me is - first you set the rules that both agree to, and then you try it, not first you try it and then see how it works.

Does not make space for people who learn in other ways. I'm visual, my husband is audio. I know people who are kinesthetic learners who have to do the thing to "get" it. The group could talk about each person's prefered learning method so that the group can succeed rather than being upset different people learn differently.

And the common sense rule to me is - if it's not working, you stop doing it, figure out why, solve things and move on.

And do they all know it was not working? Metamour didn't for a long time, but neither did you go to tell her. Do we all have a shared and agreed to conflict resolution method? Nope.

Polyship flying with no shared map. Again, not the end of the world, but having learned this, next time before launching, make your agreements for conduct -- how you agree to be together.

Even if this polyship folds because of lack of preparation? YOU could start figuring out what your own personal code of conduct is so your next experience is better. Or if this polyship pulls a phoenix to rise from the ashes, then you all have a shot at not having another rough start on the reboot.

Sort it out. You can handle this. It will be ok one way or another. BREATHE.

GL!
Galagirl

 

[IndieSolo]

I haven't read all the responses, just the initial post. It reminds me of something two very wise mentors of mine used to say: There are two "houses" we can choose to live in. One is the "Alive" house, where we have passion, energy, satisfying relationships, fulfilling activities, full self-expression, and all the things that make us feel alive. The other is the "Right" house, where we get to be right, righteous, and indignant. We can't have any of the things in the Alive house if we choose to live in the Right house. And we have to let go of the need to be right if we choose to live in the Alive house. Something to think about.

 

[bookbug]

My rule is "everything is OK with everyone's consent".



Of course she's not the one to blame. I've spoken to her and told her so, too. I am angry with my boyfriend, he's the one unfair to me. It's exactly the way you say.

I do know very well that her disappearance would not change the fact that my boyfriend was not fair to me and my bad feelings about it. That's why I'm posting here!

The point is, I don't know how to manage this situation...



Exactly. That's what I am asking about. Your experiences, opinions.

Here is the thing: no one can fix your bf's behavior, but your bf. That said, you could give him specific behaviors that would enable him to meet your expectations. While it may seem that he should know what to do when you say don't neglect me, reassure me, etc., it often is not as obvious as we like to think. For some people reassurance is about the spoken word, for others, it is communicated in touch, and for yet others it may be expressed by bringing small tokens of affection, etc. We are all different. So it is possible he thinks he was doing those things, but he wasn't doing them in the way you would notice.

I know you are angry, but is it possible that he could have thought he was communicating reassurance to you, but failed? In other words, what was his intent? From your description, it sounds like he just blew you off and didn't give a rats about how you felt. If this was truly his intent - "I'm going to do whatever the hell I want and you can suck it up or not" - then why are you still there? However, the fact remains that you are still there, so it makes me think that underneath, you don't believe that was his intent. That might be a place to start.

 

[Awarita]

Thanks everyone for your posts,
I will reply specifically in a few days since I'm going to have busy days now.

I should have come here way earlier.
A lot of wisdom in your words.

Your experience is priceless. Thanks