Being a go-between

[Tinwen]

But I think maybe it's not unreasonable to ask her to expect we might not always be readily available either and not to freak out every time about it?

Hello, I think you did well last week.
I deffinitelly agree with this one. You too deserve to take alone time without appologising.
Being secondary was really hard for me at times, and I am very thankful that my partner usually answered my emails and text messages as soon as he read them (during the NRE period I really got upset if I couldn't hear from him - waiting is hard. I even delayed answering his emails myself as not to get into the waiting-for-an-answer period so soon again ), but I assume it was more him missing me too then feeling the duty to answer.
She should deal with him not being awailable during dinner. If he wishes to let her know, fine. You can handle the same request differently. It also depends what is an extended period of time - certainly not half an hour, but I would want to know for sure if he was unawailable for days.
Is your metamour young and perhaps a little dependent? Judging on my experience, it will not make her any good to focus on waiting and worrying. She should try to destract herself, she doesn't even need to leave everything she is doing to read the answer she receives immediatelly

 

[MrsBrightside]

We've never been unavailable to her for a day or days at a time. Both of us talk to her every day; when he is home with me they often text a lot, which is fine. But usually we do leave our phones upstairs when we have dinner and watch TV together, so this request is really putting me off. Would she ask him to let her know when he won't be able to answer at work? Somehow I don't think so; but if he's with me, THEN she worries if he won't answer (and more if I also don't answer). I feel like she has the most difficulty when she is not involved in what we do. :/ I don't really feel like giving her a play-by-play of what we do is actually going to help her insecurity either...

I am a bit worried at this point that these kinds of requests will become more frequent or more rigid. I already feel a bit suffocated by how much reassurance she needs and how much she requires outside forces (ie - us) to change so she can feel better...

 

[KC43]

To me, one of the purposes of texting instead of calling is so the recipient doesn't feel obligated to answer immediately.

Though that might be a side effect of me consistently finding guys who might not answer a text for two or three DAYS, because if they receive a text and aren't immediately able to answer they tend to forget they've received a text at all. That's been a problem with each of the three guys I've been with since the polyamory thing started for me. With each of them, I told them that while I'll never make demands of them, if a text goes unanswered for more than a day, because of my anxiety I start wondering if I've done something wrong and they're ghosting on me, so I prefer getting a reply at least the day that I send the text. Boots is making a point to check his phone more frequently since I asked him to at least answer *questions* the same day, and he now answers nearly all of my texts within an hour or two. My two previous boyfriends addressed it in other ways.

But on the other hand... when I was seeing Guy, he was still traveling extensively for work, but was going home ("home" being the place he was renting for his second ex-wife and their son; Guy couldn't afford separate housing for himself so stayed with them when he wasn't on the road) for about 5 days every month. His ex didn't deal well with him talking to other people when he was there, so he would tell me when he was going home and I would make sure I *didn't* text him during those days. I knew he probably wouldn't be able to answer, so it was easier to just leave him alone. The only times I texted when he was home was if I was having a severe anxiety attack or a PTSD issue, because Guy was better able to help me through those than Hubby, and he had told me it was okay to text him under those circumstances as long as I understood that he wouldn't be able to answer right away. On those occasions, he would find something he needed to go to the store for so he could get out of the house to call me.

With Boots, because he's also involved with Glow, I've told both of them that I will not text him when I know they're together. They usually have two separate nights a week together; anything I want to say to him can wait until the following day when he's at work. (He is able to answer texts off and on during his work day.) Boots and Glow have both told me they don't have a problem with me texting him while they're together, because they know I won't abuse it; I don't text him every day as it is, and when I do it's usually just a "hi, how's it going" or a "are we still on for (whatever plan)". But to me, because they aren't together all the time, it just feels disrespectful to both of them if I'm texting him at those times.

So... the short version is yes, I think it's completely reasonable for you and Farmer to set the boundary with Red that, while it's okay for her to text you or Farmer when you're together, she needs to accept that she might not get an immediate response. And I think it is *not* reasonable for her to ask to be told when you're away from your phones. She should be able to understand that sometimes you're not going to answer right away. No one answers their texts immediately every single time they get one, as far as I know...

 

[playfulgirl]

I'm the non live in partner in a vee. It is totally reasonable for you and him to not be available all the time. No one needs to be tethers at the hip via a cell phone.

If it helps here are different things we have tried when one member of the vee or another were having a high communication need or high non interruption need.

1.scheduled talk times: for example, he calls lady around 830 the 2 nights he's at my place to check in and say goodnight to the kiddos. I don't like to talk in the phone but we always check in between 10/1030. That said we are secure enough we don't fret the occasional missing.
2. General discussing of routines. For example, Lady Real and the kids make sure to have dinner together and family time. So I know that they are just busy from 5-9 on weeknights. And he know that I have a standing pub date on Thursday and won't be available
3. Mutual agreement that not answering texts was not personql rejection just that the person was otherwise occupied.

I know that when we were first dating I had lots of insecurity that came out in various ways. To me it seems like the texting thing is her insecurities monster running rampant. It's unreasonable to demand always be in immediate communication. And honestly it's just impractical to always say everyday hey I'm not available for the next 2 hrs. A request like that is a mine field of hurts waiting to happen.

 

[JaneQSmythe]

I'll chime in just to agree that I think it is UN-reasonable to ask you guys to let her know every time you are away from your phones for a few hours. That feels HIGHLY intrusive to me.

I think it is reasonable for there to be a flexible schedule of when someone CAN be expected to be available as well as a reasonable time frame for txts to be answered (or calls returned).

 

[MrsBrightside]

Thanks everyone.. it felt intrusive to me, particularly since I already feel like she very subtly pushes boundaries to try and feel included in things Farmer and I do together without her, from weekends with family, to our sex life (if we were away from our phones, 'were you having sex?' is a common question), to just evenings alone, now. Farmer is already very forthright with her, but it just always feels like she thinks we are hiding things from her anyways, when some things are just private, just as she and Farmer have their privacy.

I am the kind of person who deals better Knowing Things but there is a fine line between "open and honest communication makes me more comfortable" and "I need to know everything or I think everything is automatically horrible and you hate me now"

 

[GalaGirl]

Am I being too sensitive due to being overwhelmed earlier this week? These kind of requests feel a tad close to the controlling side of things, and I feel unsure of how to address them because it's under the guise of feeling vulnerable and still processing the whole poly thing.

No. You are not being too sensitive. You are calling the behaviors right. She IS intrusive. She DOES cross boundaries.

From the sound of it? I think that lady is wonky. Borderline waif is my guess.

Even just reading about her behaviors makes me go "ew" and want to keep my distance. She sounds super draining. So I can only imagine how suffocated you must feel with all her "bottomless pit of need" stuff every other moment.

I suggest you keep doing what you are doing. Keep strong boundaries, answer her with short polite answers and don't allow yourself to get sucked into too deep into conversation with her. Be pleasant if you bump into her but don't go out of your way. You can expect her to come on strong to see if you will fold. Boundary testing. But hang in there and she will probably flit off to easier targets when getting attention supply out of you has become too much work.

I came back upstairs to another lengthy text that she feels like things have changed this week between us, and reassured me she is 'fine' with us being platonic, but that it is new and hard for her to communicate with two people rather than one. I reassured her again, and mentioned that she can talk only to Farmer if that makes life easier. She refused and said she likes communicating with me too, and she apologized for being heavy on that this week; as it's been a difficult one for sorting out her emotions. I thought this was fine.

All that? All I see is her wanting to keep BOTH of you as her supply facets to fill her up. I am not surprised she backed off when you suggested she just talk to Farmer. Why would she go for 1 faucet rather than 2? I think she's after attention supply. As many faucets for her as possible to prop her up.

You are the one who is going to have to stop being a reliable faucet for her. YOU get to decide that and execute that. Could tell her yes. Things are different now. She's your ex. You are fine with them dating, but you need some space since breaking up. She can expect polite when you bump into each other, but none of this "friend texting" any more. You are not mad. You just need healing space. Then don't answer her any more when she texts you.

You are not her friend. You are her ex and meta. Be that, and if she's all sad and mopey that she can no longer overuse and abuse this "friend texting" any more because you told her you are her ex and you don't answer texts any more?

Well... she can tell her other friends or Farmer or whoever about her new mopey feelings. I guess til he teaches his limit of tolerance.

But at least YOU are out of the business of propping her up. She doesn't sound healthy to me at all.

Galagirl

 

[MrsBrightside]

Thank you as usual GalaGirl. I feel much better about taking some space, and I have talked to Farmer who is firm that Red's feelings are NOT my responsibility and that I am allowed to have space if I need. He and I are working on having specific 'date nights' in which we can have to focus on each other and let Red know we would like space during those times. I have also offered that Red should have weekly Skype nights as well (she is a LDR) so balance out the date nights (she has them usually once a week already, and I do not bug them during this time, but having a specific time to themselves too makes things a bit more balanced).

I am honestly a bit surprised Farmer is tolerating the neediness and jealousy so well (we were having a party this weekend, and she asked him not to 'forget her' and admitted to being worried he'd have a random threesome; she went out with friends but still texting him often the whole night), as he usually doesn't have much tolerance for it at all (he tells me often he loves how not-jealous I am and that we can talk about crushes together without anyone feeling bad/upset). But I suspect there's a lot of NRE flying around and she is quite the love-bomber, so that can make it easy to not think these are big deals right now.

I hope she can maybe so some self-work and things can get better, because I don't see this as being too sustainable long term if she can't, and I refuse to simply inflate her over and over in hopes it'll change something significant; it's just too much.

 

[GalaGirl]

I have talked to Farmer who is firm that Red's feelings are NOT my responsibility and that I am allowed to have space if I need.

Yup. Keep that boundary and meet your need.

I refuse to simply inflate her over and over in hopes it'll change something significant; it's just too much.

Keep that boundary too.

Galagirl

 

[IndieSolo]

Jeez, she is so fucking needy. I would find it very pushy, rude, invasive, and nervy of a metamour (or anyone for that matter - even a lover!) who wanted to know in advance every time I'll be out of reach. You DO have a right to privacy and to have a private life with your partner. I would think just letting her know you can't always respond right away should be enough.

. . . she worries if he won't answer (and more if I also don't answer). I feel like she has the most difficulty when she is not involved in what we do. :/ I don't really feel like giving her a play-by-play of what we do is actually going to help her insecurity either.

Well, if you two are going to report in to her with your availability (yikes!), you don't have to tell her what you're doing. You can just say something like, "We'll be busy and offline/off our phones for the rest of the evening. Talk to ya tomorrow!" You don't owe her a detailed itinerary!

You can also choose to have specific evening(s) or day(s) just for your partner and you, and let her know it's a no-contact time period. For example, when I was in a LDR with a married poly guy, I knew he and his wife had reserved Sundays as their day together, to connect and so on, so I respected that and never contacted him on Sundays. You and he can have a special day of the week, too.

Edited to add:

. . . she very subtly pushes boundaries to try and feel included in things Farmer and I do together without her, from weekends with family, to our sex life (if we were away from our phones, 'were you having sex?' is a common question) . . .

Are you kidding me?!!?? She actually has the balls to ask that? That isn't subtle, that is obnoxious and nosy. I wouldn't put up with this crap for very long, I tell ya. Do you think it would be helpful to invite farmer to read this thread?

 

[MrsBrightside]

Farmer is aware of some of my concerns, though he thinks I may be reading a little too much into things (he doesn't think she is more needy when he's around me, which just means she's needy all the time I guess; not comforting lol). He is heavy into the NRE and chalks a lot of stuff up to her anxiety and having a bad day/week/month rather than anything to be concerned about. Plus I'm sure the attention and such is welcome during NRE whereas I'm just the meta/friend so I don't have a ton of lovey feels to counter balance this kind of thing.

The sex thing would be weirder to me, but.. initially when Farmer was just talking to her a lot.. she started getting curious about me, thought I was attractive, and asked Farmer to describe our last sex. I was there watching what he typed and I was fine with it, it was apparently a huge turn on for all involved. For a short time we shared some intimate snaps with her until I started feeling uncomfortable with sharing something almost every time. I wasn't sure I was attracted to Red yet so I didn't want to lead her on, especially since I'm asexual, so we scaled it back and then stopped entirely once I was for sure about feeling platonic.

Today was a good day? I'm cautiously realistic. She saw a therapist, and suddenly seems very not-worried about things or at least feels the stress is "worth it" to her to be in our lives. She implied she hopes for a life together still and is happy to hope for that, and that she doesn't think she could do poly with anyone else but us. I guess we'll see how tomorrow goes, but typically this kid of stuff doesn't change/go away over night so I'll be wait and see.

 

[GalaGirl]

Today was a good day? I'm cautiously realistic. She saw a therapist, and suddenly seems very not-worried about things or at least feels the stress is "worth it" to her to be in our lives. She implied she hopes for a life together still and is happy to hope for that, and that she doesn't think she could do poly with anyone else but us. I guess we'll see how tomorrow goes, but typically this kid of stuff doesn't change/go away over night so I'll be wait and see.

How do you know all this stuff? She texting you again? Do not respond to her texts.

You aren't giving her play-by-play of your life. What do you need to know her life play-by-play for? What's with this "worth it" and "so special" love bomb stuff? I think she's trying to get you to turn the attention faucet back on for her by making you feel beholden somehow.

I also think she's hopping tactics trying to figure out which one gets a response out of you. Be flat. Be boring. Be unavailable.

I could be wrong, but I don't trust it.

Farmer will wake up to it when he does. In the meanwhile, you can keep your distance and not be so involved in the details of her life as you wait and see how this unfolds. Stay out of the splash zone.

Galagirl

 

[MrsBrightside]

I respond to casual texts like small talk and such, this is the most we've chatted in a week; I'm polite but not very deep. She just brought it up during small talk stuff. But I don't disagree, I didn't go rushing back with the guilt tripping, so maybe if she seems stable she thinks I will. I won't change what I've been doing, since it's been helping me a lot. It'll have to be pretty consistent for me to start trusting it, but people don't change overnight.

 

[GalaGirl]

She just brought it up during small talk stuff

So... she couldn't keep it on "small talk." Spotlight has to be all on her.

I won't change what I've been doing, since it's been helping me a lot.

Good. Keep that front and center for YOU.

It'll have to be pretty consistent for me to start trusting it, but people don't change overnight.

Yup. They don't.

Galagirl