Bi gf wants to go poly

[Keke]

We have been together for 3 years. At the beginning, we were completely monogamous. For the last year she has been having casual sex with girls, with my permission. I did not like it, but it was not that bad.

Now she has her first weekend with a girl, which was nerve wrecking for me. After the weekend, she came up to me asking about if I were ok in changing our relationship "status" as poly. She wants to have emotional relationship(s?) with at least that one girl.

I don't feel very good about that, as I haven't been allowed to have sex outside of our relationship and I can only assume that if we go through with this, I will be spending a lot more time by myself. I think that I would like to have something to do when she is away with the girl. It feels bad to sit all alone when she is with someone else. As I am heterosexual, I would not be interested in having something (sexual) to do with guys and it feels just unfair that she would have another relationship and I would only have her. I think that if we go with this, I would need to be able to have at least fwb with a girl for it to be fair.

I have been reading about polyamory and it frightens me a lot. I think that I might be able to cope with her being with a girl, maybe. But from what I have read, agreeing to a poly relationship would mean that I would have to be ok with her being with other guys and that is something which I can't even consider. Nono. She has not expressed any interest to be with other guys but I am scared that if something like that would happen one day, I would be supposed to deal with it. I am 100% certain that it would lead to us breaking up if that were to happen. I don't want that to happen and I do want it to be only girls for her.

I am also not interested in threesomes in any way.


TL;DR,

I am not a poly person myself, by any means. I am quite sure that I will not ever be one. Is there any chance of making this work?

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Keke,

While an OPP is usually discouraged in poly circles, there's nothing in the definition of poly that forbids it. The bottom line is that you should do whatever works for you and your girlfriend. However, it sounds like she does not want you to date anyone else, and that does not work for you, especially if she is going to be out getting emotionally involved with another girl. I don't know if this all adds up to a deal breaker between you and her, but the two of you need to sit down and talk about it.

It kind of sounds like the whole thing with nonmonogamy makes you uncomfortable, polyamory even more so. You are mostly just thinking about what you would require just in order to be able to stand polyamory. Not so much that poly would be your first choice. I'm not sure what to suggest, your girlfriend seems to prefer nonmonogamy and poly, and this is a point on which you and she are not compatible. You have to decide if you want to keep dating each other with that in mind.

It's not that either of you is right or wrong, it's just that you have to find a path that works for both of you ... if such a path exists. You have to decide whether you can stand to have a polyamorous relationship. You're already out of your comfort zone with these shorter casual outings. Don't be inclined to save the relationship at all costs; rather, seek to save the individuals within the relationship; that is, you and her.

I hope you can work something out, and that Polyamory.com can help.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[KC43]

What is it about her having sex/relationships with other guys that you find more threatening than her having sex/relationships with other girls? How would her sexually interacting with a penis be any different than her sexually interacting with a vagina, as far as emotions and the fact that it's all sex? For that matter, how is her sexually interacting with a penis any different than *you* sexually interacting with a vagina? It might also be important to remember that not all men have penises, and not all women have vaginas.

You could certainly tell her that she can be poly but only date women (the "OPP" Kevin mentioned; it stands for "one penis policy"), but then in order for things to be fair and equal, you could only date men. Since you say you're straight, that clearly isn't going to happen, so you have some thinking to do. Are you going to accept your partner being poly only if she only fucks other women but not if she becomes interested in other men, and then be a hypocrite by having sex and relationships with other women yourself? Are you going to accept that being poly means each of you has the right to have sex and relationships with whomever you choose regardless of their gender and dangly bits? Or are you going to deny your partner the option of expressing and engaging in her sexual and relationship style of preference?

 

[SlowPoly]

We have been together for 3 years. At the beginning, we were completely monogamous. For the last year she has been having casual sex with girls, with my permission. I did not like it, but it was not that bad.

Now she has her first weekend with a girl, which was nerve wrecking for me. After the weekend, she came up to me asking about if I were ok in changing our relationship "status" as poly. She wants to have emotional relationship(s?) with at least that one girl.

I don't feel very good about that. . .

So you are *not* okay with that. Could ask for things to slow down while you work, on your own and together, to learn what "poly" means to both of you, and if there are agreements that can get you both what you need.

. . . I haven't been allowed to have sex outside of our relationship and I can only assume that if we go through with this, I will be spending a lot more time by myself. I think that I would like to have something to do when she is away with the girl. It feels bad to sit all alone when she is with someone else.

Is sex outside the relationship something you actually want, or are you just assuming that if you were allowed to have sex outside the relationship you would spend less time alone?

If you want to have sex outside the relationship, you could say that's what you want. But if you only want it for "fairness" or because you need something to do with your time, then asking for that may not address your needs.

If you want your girlfriend to commit to spending a certain amount of time with you, you could say that's what you want. "I'm afraid polyamory would mean i don't get to spend as much time with you as I like to. Would you be willing to set aside [x] nights a week for our time together?"

She doesn't have to agree to anything you ask for. But you can't forge agreements that satisfy everyone without asking for what you want. And if you can't forge agreements that satisfy everyone, it's probably better to part ways.

If you do nothing but sit alone when you're not with your girlfriend, you could find some activities that you enjoy, either socially or alone. If your idea of being partnered is monogamous and sort of "full-time co-entertainers" then, no, none of this will work.

I think that if we go with this, I would need to be able to have at least fwb with a girl for it to be fair.

Fairness isn't always tit for tat, and it *is* always debatable. You are only attracted to one sex. She is attracted to two (for the sake of argument). Maybe it's fair for her to be able to have relationships with every sex she's attracted to, as you get to have a relationship with every sex you're attracted to. [You and she are monogamous, so that covers women for you and men for her. In this kind of fairness, she should still be able to have something with a woman/women to cover that need.] I'm not saying this is a good argument. I'm just saying, "fair" is in the eye of the beholder.

What matters for equity in relationships is whether people are equally free to express their needs and to get their needs met. If you want to have fwb relationships with women, but all this monogamy stuff has been holding you back for all these years? Then you need to tell your girlfriend that.

But if you think being "allowed" to pursue fwb relationships (which you're not particularly interested in) is going to somehow "even the playing field," then prepare to be disappointed. You can certainly ask for it, but you're not getting at your real needs, and eventually you're going to have to face your real needs.

I have been reading about polyamory and it frightens me a lot. I think that I might be able to cope with her being with a girl, maybe. But from what I have read, agreeing to a poly relationship would mean that I would have to be ok with her being with other guys and that is something which I can't even consider. Nono. She has not expressed any interest to be with other guys but I am scared that if something like that would happen one day, I would be supposed to deal with it. I am 100% certain that it would lead to us breaking up if that were to happen. I don't want that to happen and I do want it to be only girls for her.

So, Poly frightens you. Mainly because a thing she hasn't asked for is beyond your personal boundary, and if she ever did ask for it, your relationship with her would be over. But she could ask for that (or many other things) today and end your relationship, too. Don't agree to things you don't want to do. And don't end relationships based on some what-ifs you put together out of fear.

So, to put that with what you wrote above, you don't necessarily want to be with other women, and she doesn't necessarily want to be with other men, and you're actually kind of okay with her being with other women (or is this only if you get to have fwb?), as long as you still get sufficient time with her? And you're really just worried this is a slippery slope to her having relationships with men and women, and you not being allowed to have any additional relationships?

So, you could get her to clarify what relationship structure she desires - what needs she is seeking to fulfill. If she wants to be free to have meaningful relationships with other women, and you want to have a certain amount of her time reserved for you, you may be able to come to some agreements where both of those things are fulfilled.

You should express clearly your hard boundary about not wanting her to have sexual relationships with other men, and that this would end your relationship. She may or may not agree to this constraint. If she does, realize that having this as an agreement does not actually prevent her from developing feelings for a man and breaking up with you.

If you truly want to be able to have fwb or other relationships with other women, tell her you want that. If you just bring that up to complicate negotiations -- you say are, in fact, "not a poly person ... by any means. I am quite sure I will never be one" -- then focus on getting your real needs met, and incorporating your actual boundaries into your shared agreements.


Ultimately, if you want your girlfriend to get her needs met, she may be better able to do that in a polyamorous relationship where her freedom is not seen as a threat to her monogamous partner's happiness.

 

[Keke]

Thank you all for the effort you put in to replying me. All of the posts are excellent in their own way. I have read all of them few times and I will be digesting this for a monent and then replying all of you.

I really appreciate this.

 

[Ravenscroft]

Though it'll likely get me into trouble...

Polyamory is not one-size-fits-all.

Polyamory encompasses a particular grouping of (for lack of a better term) love styles.

If you thought that you had agreed to something like "casual sex with other women," then that is indeed upon YOU for not being clear enough about YOUR expectations.

You certainly have a right to your feelings. You might have gone into "poly" thinking you had a One-Penis Policy, & there's NOTHING wrong with that -- however much people might find it unworkable. (It's sexist. Imagine if she was totally okay with you having sex with other men, & felt satisfied that this somehow made each of you equal.)

If that was the explicit agreement between the two of you, then that agreement has become a problem. But if it was your assumption, then it's clearly a problem that EACH of you have caused, & needs to be remedied by honest & self-aware discussion.

It's on both of you for not being clear what EXACTLY was meant by EACH of you when you used the term "polyamory" at each other. Now, it's on EACH of you to figure out where you are & where you wish to go.

 

[Keke]

Hello Keke,

While an OPP is usually discouraged in poly circles, there's nothing in the definition of poly that forbids it. The bottom line is that you should do whatever works for you and your girlfriend. However, it sounds like she does not want you to date anyone else, and that does not work for you, especially if she is going to be out getting emotionally involved with another girl. I don't know if this all adds up to a deal breaker between you and her, but the two of you need to sit down and talk about it.

It kind of sounds like the whole thing with nonmonogamy makes you uncomfortable, polyamory even more so. You are mostly just thinking about what you would require just in order to be able to stand polyamory. Not so much that poly would be your first choice. I'm not sure what to suggest, your girlfriend seems to prefer nonmonogamy and poly, and this is a point on which you and she are not compatible. You have to decide if you want to keep dating each other with that in mind.

It's not that either of you is right or wrong, it's just that you have to find a path that works for both of you ... if such a path exists. You have to decide whether you can stand to have a polyamorous relationship. You're already out of your comfort zone with these shorter casual outings. Don't be inclined to save the relationship at all costs; rather, seek to save the individuals within the relationship; that is, you and her.

I hope you can work something out, and that Polyamory.com can help.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

Thank you very much for this reply, it makes me feel better about my situation.

I had read of OPP and I kind of thought that it is not "allowed" in polyamory. It is a thing which could make this work, as long as I am getting something in exchange. I am not comfortable in getting something which I personally consider as a "downgrade" on our relationship without having some add to my side of the agreement.

You are absolutely correct on your second paragraph. I am just trying to find a way to make this more palatable for me. I also have considered breaking up with her, it seems to be the easier way for me. However, I really do not want that. Your advice on saving my relationship at any cost is a wise one. If I don't get something which I can be happy about, there is no point in continuing with her.

 

[Keke]

What is it about her having sex/relationships with other guys that you find more threatening than her having sex/relationships with other girls? How would her sexually interacting with a penis be any different than her sexually interacting with a vagina, as far as emotions and the fact that it's all sex? For that matter, how is her sexually interacting with a penis any different than *you* sexually interacting with a vagina? It might also be important to remember that not all men have penises, and not all women have vaginas.

You could certainly tell her that she can be poly but only date women (the "OPP" Kevin mentioned; it stands for "one penis policy"), but then in order for things to be fair and equal, you could only date men. Since you say you're straight, that clearly isn't going to happen, so you have some thinking to do. Are you going to accept your partner being poly only if she only fucks other women but not if she becomes interested in other men, and then be a hypocrite by having sex and relationships with other women yourself? Are you going to accept that being poly means each of you has the right to have sex and relationships with whomever you choose regardless of their gender and dangly bits? Or are you going to deny your partner the option of expressing and engaging in her sexual and relationship style of preference?

Hi and thank you for this reply. This is exactly what I am worried about. It feels that I might be guilted in to accepting her doing stuff with guys.

For me, the biggest reason for not wanting her to go out with guys is that I would feel less for her if she were to do that. This has happened me on two different occasions. Once when I was quite young, my girlfriend kissed a guy on my idea. I never kissed her again. I just did not want to. Another occasion was when my previous gf wanted us to have a foursome with a couple. Well, we had one. Even though I was completely up for it, afterwards I did not feel the same with her. We had sex couple of times after that and I did not feel love for her anymore. We broke up because of that.

The other big reason for me is that she is the one asking for this arrangement, with the reasoning of her being bisexual. I can see that there might be a thing that she really needs which I can in any way provide. When it comes to other guys, I just don't feel that there is any reason for me to go through with those bad feelings. Not for me.

When it comes to fairness, she is the one who is asking for something to be changed. I am not interested in pursuing other romantic relationships. It does not work that way for me, I am a one woman type of a guy and I want that from my partner. I am however willing to compromise, if there is something coming my way too. Otherwise it would not be a compromise for her and it would most likely lead to me resenting her. I think that it is as close as fair as it could get when she gets to be romantically involved with a woman and I get to have some fun with other women. I am not even thinking that I need to do that, just that it would be an option for me. There is no risk for her there, I am going to end any fwb thing if there will be feelings involved. I have had only 2 fwb ever and both of them were ended by me when I started to get feelings for the girls.

I am not going to accept that. That is not for me.

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

While a OPP is generally frowned upon in poly circles, that is YOUR personal boundary. You are right; she changed the construct of the relationship after it had already started, and you are well within your rights to say that her having a relationship of any type with another man is a boundary you cannot live with. I am seeing (and have seen previously) all sorts of responses regarding how you "need" to accept that she should be able to have relationships with men and/or with women and that YOUR jealousy is YOUR problem that YOU need to work on. No, you don't "need" to accept anything. Your girlfriend wanted to open a relationship that had been constructed as monogamous; was that "fair?"

My husband was willing to consent to me having relationships with other women, but not with men. Unfair? Maybe; but that's what we agreed on and what I accepted. As it turned out, I am unable to give more than one relationship its necessary attention and my (mis)adventure wound up going sideways and I have accepted monogamy. As far as I can tell, no lasting damage was done to the relationship with my husband and I, and this was over seven years ago.

It is better for you to be able to articulate your boundaries at this point, before things go too far. Maybe this relationship has just reached its natural conclusion.

 

[Keke]

Thank you for the reply, the effort you put on this is amazing.

So you are *not* okay with that. Could ask for things to slow down while you work, on your own and together, to learn what "poly" means to both of you, and if there are agreements that can get you both what you need.

That is a very reasonable suggestion. I will tell her that I am not ready for anything unless everything is crystal clear for me.

Is sex outside the relationship something you actually want, or are you just assuming that if you were allowed to have sex outside the relationship you would spend less time alone?

If you want to have sex outside the relationship, you could say that's what you want. But if you only want it for "fairness" or because you need something to do with your time, then asking for that may not address your needs.

If you want your girlfriend to commit to spending a certain amount of time with you, you could say that's what you want. "I'm afraid polyamory would mean i don't get to spend as much time with you as I like to. Would you be willing to set aside [x] nights a week for our time together?"

It is not what I really want. It is because of fairness and the inevitable fact that I will have less time with her if this goes on. I feel that it suits my needs to a tee.

However, I don't see how making an agreement that we would spend "X nights per week" together would help that. There would still even long times when she is with a woman and not there for me. I can only guess that it would be during the weekends, which has always been our time.

She doesn't have to agree to anything you ask for. But you can't forge agreements that satisfy everyone without asking for what you want. And if you can't forge agreements that satisfy everyone, it's probably better to part ways.

Absolutely correct.

If you do nothing but sit alone when you're not with your girlfriend, you could find some activities that you enjoy, either socially or alone. If your idea of being partnered is monogamous and sort of "full-time co-entertainers" then, no, none of this will work.

I don't feel that going bowling for example would be the same as she going out with romantic interests. No. Maybe if I were to go bowling with a cute girl and after that, maybe some sex. That would be as close to same as I can even think of.

Fairness isn't always tit for tat, and it *is* always debatable. You are only attracted to one sex. She is attracted to two (for the sake of argument). Maybe it's fair for her to be able to have relationships with every sex she's attracted to, as you get to have a relationship with every sex you're attracted to. [You and she are monogamous, so that covers women for you and men for her. In this kind of fairness, she should still be able to have something with a woman/women to cover that need.] I'm not saying this is a good argument. I'm just saying, "fair" is in the eye of the beholder.

What matters for equity in relationships is whether people are equally free to express their needs and to get their needs met. If you want to have fwb relationships with women, but all this monogamy stuff has been holding you back for all these years? Then you need to tell your girlfriend that.

I am going with logic here and disagree strongly with your first paragraph. Fair is fair. If one has the right to have outside relationships, only fair thing would be to have the other partner also have his fun.

I am perfectly happy with monogamous relationship and when I am in one, I will not have a need to have FWB relationships with other woman. Now if our relationship would slide to polyamory, I would like to have some benefits of my own too. Otherwise, I would definitely start resenting her.

But if you think being "allowed" to pursue fwb relationships (which you're not particularly interested in) is going to somehow "even the playing field," then prepare to be disappointed. You can certainly ask for it, but you're not getting at your real needs, and eventually you're going to have to face your real needs.

It would even the playing field. How would I be more disappointed in that than when I would not have the right to do so? My real need is to be in a fair situation.

So, Poly frightens you. Mainly because a thing she hasn't asked for is beyond your personal boundary, and if she ever did ask for it, your relationship with her would be over. But she could ask for that (or many other things) today and end your relationship, too. Don't agree to things you don't want to do. And don't end relationships based on some what-ifs you put together out of fear.

So, to put that with what you wrote above, you don't necessarily want to be with other women, and she doesn't necessarily want to be with other men, and you're actually kind of okay with her being with other women (or is this only if you get to have fwb?), as long as you still get sufficient time with her? And you're really just worried this is a slippery slope to her having relationships with men and women, and you not being allowed to have any additional relationships?

This is the best part of your reply.

She could do that. That would most likely mean that our relationship would be over. I have no problems with that, if we are too incompatible to be in a relationship which satisfies both of us.

However, if there is no clear boundaries established then there is a chance that she ends up doing something which would be very bad just because she might think that it would "not be a big deal". I don't want to be in that situation.

After reading some posts on reddit/whatnot I am really worried that I would be guilted in accepting that she should be able to see other guys too. If I accept her being with a woman and not a man, I will be called hypocrite when my own condition is that I want to have the right for something "extramarital" of my own. Also I am afraid that she thinks that I will not do anything and if I eventually want to do something with another woman, it could be the end of the relationship.

So yes, it could be ok if she has romantic relationships with women as long as I get enough time with her and the right to have casual stuff with women.

So, you could get her to clarify what relationship structure she desires - what needs she is seeking to fulfill. If she wants to be free to have meaningful relationships with other women, and you want to have a certain amount of her time reserved for you, you may be able to come to some agreements where both of those things are fulfilled.

You should express clearly your hard boundary about not wanting her to have sexual relationships with other men, and that this would end your relationship. She may or may not agree to this constraint. If she does, realize that having this as an agreement does not actually prevent her from developing feelings for a man and breaking up with you.

Yes, that is a very good idea. I do want to see a clear picture of what this all means for me. I kind of have the idea of what kind of agreement could potentially work for me.

I will do that. I was not sure if it was "ok" for me to do that but yes, I definitely will.

Our current agreement and monogamous relationship agreements does not prevent that from happening either. It just does not give her the chance to pursue the thing which would ultimately lead to our brakeup. If she develops feelings for another man, she has 2 choices (from my perspective). Either break up with me and pursue whatever she wants or ignore those feelings.

If you truly want to be able to have fwb or other relationships with other women, tell her you want that. If you just bring that up to complicate negotiations -- you say are, in fact, "not a poly person ... by any means. I am quite sure I will never be one" -- then focus on getting your real needs met, and incorporating your actual boundaries into your shared agreements.


Ultimately, if you want your girlfriend to get her needs met, she may be better able to do that in a polyamorous relationship where her freedom is not seen as a threat to her monogamous partner's happiness.

I don't get it. How is that complicating negotiations? If I don't bring that up, there is nothing for me to negotiate. I would just be accepting her terms and get nothing in return.

I don't know what you are suggesting with your second paragraph. Breaking up? That is a viable option. If you are suggesting that I should be happy with her being with other people, I would need something in return to make it more palatable. Who knows, maybe it would work out.



Again, thank you for the effort you put in. I kind of liked your message when I first read it but after reading it again I kind of did not like your "tone". I do not want to argue with you but my replies might sound like that because I disagree with you in many things.

 

[Keke]

Though it'll likely get me into trouble...

Polyamory is not one-size-fits-all.

Polyamory encompasses a particular grouping of (for lack of a better term) love styles.

If you thought that you had agreed to something like "casual sex with other women," then that is indeed upon YOU for not being clear enough about YOUR expectations.

You certainly have a right to your feelings. You might have gone into "poly" thinking you had a One-Penis Policy, & there's NOTHING wrong with that -- however much people might find it unworkable. (It's sexist. Imagine if she was totally okay with you having sex with other men, & felt satisfied that this somehow made each of you equal.)

If that was the explicit agreement between the two of you, then that agreement has become a problem. But if it was your assumption, then it's clearly a problem that EACH of you have caused, & needs to be remedied by honest & self-aware discussion.

It's on both of you for not being clear what EXACTLY was meant by EACH of you when you used the term "polyamory" at each other. Now, it's on EACH of you to figure out where you are & where you wish to go.

I think you might have misunderstood something.

There is no poly relationship yet. I have agreed that she could have casual sex with girls.

I don't know if being a "sexist" when it comes to your own private life and preferences is a bad thing. Sorry.

If I were a bi guy and I would be the one wanting to have romantic relationships outside of our own, I would recognize that it would be unfair for me not to allow her to do the same. Assuming that she would be heterosexual, the price for my freedom would be that she gets the same freedom.

 

[Keke]

While a OPP is generally frowned upon in poly circles, that is YOUR personal boundary. You are right; she changed the construct of the relationship after it had already started, and you are well within your rights to say that her having a relationship of any type with another man is a boundary you cannot live with. I am seeing (and have seen previously) all sorts of responses regarding how you "need" to accept that she should be able to have relationships with men and/or with women and that YOUR jealousy is YOUR problem that YOU need to work on. No, you don't "need" to accept anything. Your girlfriend wanted to open a relationship that had been constructed as monogamous; was that "fair?"

My husband was willing to consent to me relationships with other women, but not with men. Unfair? Maybe; but that's what we agreed on and what I accepted. As it turned out, I am unable to give more than one relationship its necessary attention and my (mis)adventure wound up going sideways and I have accepted monogamy. As far as I can tell, no lasting damage was done to the relationship with my husband and I, and this was over seven years ago.

It is better for you to be able to articulate your boundaries at this point, before things go too far. Maybe this relationship has just reached its natural conclusion.

Hi. Thank you very much for this reply. It makes me feel good.

I agree completely on everything you said. I am just happy to have someone agreeing with me.

I really don't have to accept anything I know would be very bad for me and our relationship. I don't think that it is reasonable to put the blame on me for my assumed insecurities and lack of effort on not being jealous.

 

[Ravenscroft]

You seem to be getting peevish with the very people who are trying to support you. If you hang around a little longer, you'll likely come to understand that the dynamic in these forums can be very "cut to the bone" direct. Meantime, I offer what I hope is clarification --

I really don't have to accept anything I know would be very bad for me and our relationship. I don't think that it is reasonable to put the blame on me for my assumed insecurities and lack of effort on not being jealous.

Yes, that is exactly what powerpuffgrl is saying:

• an agreement is an agreement, period
• you are not "the bad guy" for expecting agreements to be properly honored
• any changes to an agreement MUST be negotiated first

 

[Keke]

You seem to be getting peevish with the very people who are trying to support you. If you hang around a little longer, you'll likely come to understand that the dynamic in these forums can be very "cut to the bone" direct. Meantime, I offer what I hope is clarification --

Yes, that is exactly what powerpuffgrl is saying:

• an agreement is an agreement, period
• you are not "the bad guy" for expecting agreements to be properly honored
• any changes to an agreement MUST be negotiated first

I don't really know what you think you are reading. I literally agreed with everything she said.

 

[KC43]

Hi and thank you for this reply. This is exactly what I am worried about. It feels that I might be guilted in to accepting her doing stuff with guys.

For me, the biggest reason for not wanting her to go out with guys is that I would feel less for her if she were to do that. This has happened me on two different occasions. Once when I was quite young, my girlfriend kissed a guy on my idea. I never kissed her again. I just did not want to. Another occasion was when my previous gf wanted us to have a foursome with a couple. Well, we had one. Even though I was completely up for it, afterwards I did not feel the same with her. We had sex couple of times after that and I did not feel love for her anymore. We broke up because of that.

The other big reason for me is that she is the one asking for this arrangement, with the reasoning of her being bisexual. I can see that there might be a thing that she really needs which I can in any way provide. When it comes to other guys, I just don't feel that there is any reason for me to go through with those bad feelings. Not for me.

When it comes to fairness, she is the one who is asking for something to be changed. I am not interested in pursuing other romantic relationships. It does not work that way for me, I am a one woman type of a guy and I want that from my partner. I am however willing to compromise, if there is something coming my way too. Otherwise it would not be a compromise for her and it would most likely lead to me resenting her. I think that it is as close as fair as it could get when she gets to be romantically involved with a woman and I get to have some fun with other women. I am not even thinking that I need to do that, just that it would be an option for me. There is no risk for her there, I am going to end any fwb thing if there will be feelings involved. I have had only 2 fwb ever and both of them were ended by me when I started to get feelings for the girls.

I am not going to accept that. That is not for me.

Wow... Okay, I'm not sure exactly how to respond to this, so apologies in advance if I come across harshly.

It sounds like as far as you're concerned, if "your" woman has anything to do with another guy physically/sexually, she's damaged goods and you want nothing further to do with her. That seems particularly hypocritical with the situation where YOU TOLD YOUR PARTNER to kiss another guy. She did what you wanted, and that made her less in your eyes? Dude... seriously, this is an issue you might consider exploring in therapy. Why does a woman kissing--or whatever--another guy mean she's "less" to you?

And it's also hypocritical because if a woman doing something sexual with another guy makes her damaged goods in your book, what the hell does that mean about you doing sexual things with another woman? It is the same exact situation. So by your logic, if you fuck another woman, your girlfriend should leave you because it makes you "less."

I put "your" in quotation marks in that last paragraph because no human being belongs to another. She's your girlfriend, but she doesn't belong to you. Realistically, you don't actually have a say in what she chooses to do with her body; it's her body, and she's (presumably) a competent adult.

"Fair" is not "you get to fuck other women but not men, and I also get to fuck other women." That is not fair. By your own logic, she can give you everything you want from a woman so you shouldn't get to have sex with other women, just as, like you say, you can give her everything she needs from a man so she doesn't get to have sex with other men. It doesn't matter that she's bi and you're straight. If she only gets to fuck people of the same gender, then to be fair, you also only get to fuck people of the same gender. To say otherwise is to be a class A hypocrite, in my opinion.

Honestly, I think she would be far better off if she ended her relationship with you, because then she would have the freedom to get what she wants and needs without being judged and considered virtually worthless for doing so.

 

[KC43]

Oh.. and not "blame," but you ARE responsible for your emotions. You ARE responsible for viewing a partner as "less" if she has sexual interactions with another guy. You ARE responsible for refusing to consider other alternatives and for refusing to do any work on *yourself* around this situation, your jealousy, and your views on what it means about a woman if she has sex with more than one man.

And with that, I'm going to stop responding in this thread, because clearly the inherent misogyny and mental rigidity of the OP is making me more ragey than is appropriate.

 

[Keke]

Wow... Okay, I'm not sure exactly how to respond to this, so apologies in advance if I come across harshly.

Well, I try to be nice towards you even though you are not nice to me.

It sounds like as far as you're concerned, if "your" woman has anything to do with another guy physically/sexually, she's damaged goods and you want nothing further to do with her. That seems particularly hypocritical with the situation where YOU TOLD YOUR PARTNER to kiss another guy. She did what you wanted, and that made her less in your eyes? Dude... seriously, this is an issue you might consider exploring in therapy. Why does a woman kissing--or whatever--another guy mean she's "less" to you?

How I was supposed to know that it makes me feel less? Even for the second time, I was not sure of what that was all about. Now I know that it will happen.

Why would I need therapy for that? It can be avoided by not doing stuff like that, right? I don't have to tolerate something which I really dislike.

And it's also hypocritical because if a woman doing something sexual with another guy makes her damaged goods in your book, what the hell does that mean about you doing sexual things with another woman? It is the same exact situation. So by your logic, if you fuck another woman, your girlfriend should leave you because it makes you "less."

I don't think that she is actually me so her logic would be the one which counts in her case. If she is ok with it, I might consider allowing her to explore romantic relationships with women.

I put "your" in quotation marks in that last paragraph because no human being belongs to another. She's your girlfriend, but she doesn't belong to you. Realistically, you don't actually have a say in what she chooses to do with her body; it's her body, and she's (presumably) a competent adult.

Of course not. I do have the right to tell her what I can approve and what I can't approve as a part of our relationship.

"Fair" is not "you get to fuck other women but not men, and I also get to fuck other women." That is not fair. By your own logic, she can give you everything you want from a woman so you shouldn't get to have sex with other women, just as, like you say, you can give her everything she needs from a man so she doesn't get to have sex with other men. It doesn't matter that she's bi and you're straight. If she only gets to fuck people of the same gender, then to be fair, you also only get to fuck people of the same gender. To say otherwise is to be a class A hypocrite, in my opinion.

We disagree here. She wants freedom, she has to give some freedom to me too. As I am heterosexual, it is not a freedom to "fuck guys".

Honestly, I think she would be far better off if she ended her relationship with you, because then she would have the freedom to get what she wants and needs without being judged and considered virtually worthless for doing so.

She has not expressed any interest in being with other guys so why on earth are you assuming that it is something she wants? I am just making sure that it won't be a "freebie thing" for her if I happen to agree on her dating girls.

 

[Keke]

Oh.. and not "blame," but you ARE responsible for your emotions. You ARE responsible for viewing a partner as "less" if she has sexual interactions with another guy. You ARE responsible for refusing to consider other alternatives and for refusing to do any work on *yourself* around this situation, your jealousy, and your views on what it means about a woman if she has sex with more than one man.

And with that, I'm going to stop responding in this thread, because clearly the inherent misogyny and mental rigidity of the OP is making me more ragey than is appropriate.

Oh wow. I am responsible for my emotions, yes. I am however not forced to "deal" with stuff I am not going to accept. I don't have to "work" on accepting anything. I either accept or not and in this case, her being with other guys is something I won't accept.

If that is something which comes with the "poly package" I will just reject the idea of her being romantically dating women. Would that be better?

Misogyny? Please.

 

[SlowPoly]

People are suggesting things you might consider in working toward solving your problem. You seem quite pleased when the suggestions fit your view of yourself and relationships, and quite annoyed when they don't. If you already know what you want and need, I'm not sure what you're doing here. If you're interested in learning and growing, maybe do the tiny bit of work of taking in other people's ideas and actually considering them.

She wants freedom, she has to give some freedom to me too. As I am heterosexual, it is not a freedom to "fuck guys".

So if she gets a new sweater, do you get one too? If she gets a raise, does she have to wait to accept until you get one, too? If she goes out to happy hour with friends from work, does she owe you something?

She needs something that you don't need -- why do you have to get something that you don't need as some kind of balance?

Are you interested in punishing her by requiring that you get freedom to have fwb, or just testing whether she sees "fairness" the same way you do? Or are you interested in non-monogamy for your own sake (which again, you seem to say above you are not)?

None of this is me attacking you. These are the things you can ask yourself to interrogate your motives and your feelings about her seeing other people. IF it's all about "If she gets some, I want some, too" then think about whether your relationship economics are in the currency of love. I'm not saying don't ask for the freedom to seek fwb. I'm saying know what values you think are being served by doing so. The "fairness" and "freedom" you keep banging on imply that she owes you something for having freedom to her own body and emotional connections. Why does she? Do you need to have more freedom to your own body? Do you only acquire that need when she expresses hers?

She has not expressed any interest in being with other guys so why on earth are you assuming that it is something she wants? I am just making sure that it won't be a "freebie thing" for her if I happen to agree on her dating girls.

All this requires is asking her if she intends to be with other men, and letting her know you don't want that, and won't hang around if she later decides she needs it.

However, if you want to start seeing women as a condition of her developing relationships with women, realize that most will see the OPP as confining her to the limitations of your own sexual orientation. *Many* people see "We can both see only women" as sexist, coming from someone who has no interest in men. She may not see it as unfair, so yay, you if she doesn't.


I hope you've found enough advice here to have an honest and fruitful conversation with your girlfriend, and that the two of you come to agreements that serve both of your needs. I hope you both realize that there are many potential partners in the world whose needs will complement yours.

 

[Keke]

People are suggesting things you might consider in working toward solving your problem. You seem quite pleased when the suggestions fit your view of yourself and relationships, and quite annoyed when they don't. If you already know what you want and need, I'm not sure what you're doing here. If you're interested in learning and growing, maybe do the tiny bit of work of taking in other people's ideas and actually considering them.

I came here to get some help on understanding on what I am considering agreeing to. Best example of this would be that if I agree on "poly" relationship because of her wanting to having a romantic relationship with a woman, do I at the same time agree on her having the same thing with a guy.

I do know what I want and need. I am mostly replying to the replies I have received, as I feel most of them are made with good intentions. Some of them, not so much.

So if she gets a new sweater, do you get one too? If she gets a raise, does she have to wait to accept until you get one, too? If she goes out to happy hour with friends from work, does she owe you something?

She needs something that you don't need -- why do you have to get something that you don't need as some kind of balance?

Are you interested in punishing her by requiring that you get freedom to have fwb, or just testing whether she sees "fairness" the same way you do? Or are you interested in non-monogamy for your own sake (which again, you seem to say above you are not)?

A sweater and friends are different from having romantic relationship with some other people. You do know that. So are the friends from work.

I think this is the best way to explain my view on this:

My ideal thing is a monogamous relationship. She wants to change it. For me (and just personally me) that change is a negative thing. With a woman, a bit less negative than with a man.

Compared to finding another partner who shares my ideal relationship model, there has to be something to make it worthwhile for me. That could be right to some casual fwb thing which I might not even pursue. Or maybe I will, they have been fun when I have been single.

If she were to have relationships with guys, there is nothing on this planet which would make me want to be in that kind of relationship.

None of this is me attacking you. These are the things you can ask yourself to interrogate your motives and your feelings about her seeing other people.

I can see that, you are being nice to me.

IF it's all about "If she gets some, I want some, too" then think about whether your relationship economics are in the currency of love. I'm not saying don't ask for the freedom to seek fwb. I'm saying know what values you think are being served by doing so. The "fairness" and "freedom" you keep banging on imply that she owes you something for having freedom to her own body and emotional connections. Why does she? Do you need to have more freedom to your own body? Do you only acquire that need when she expresses hers?

The value would be the fairness. I can easily see myself starting to resent her if this is something which I just have to agree without getting anything for me in return.

She has freedom to her own body. She is totally free to leave me and do whatever she pleases. It is her personal choice if she wants to be in a meaningful relationship with me. When we are in a relationship, I don't want to share her.

Yes, I only acquire that need if she "expresses her freedom". Fair is fair.

All this requires is asking her if she intends to be with other men, and letting her know you don't want that, and won't hang around if she later decides she needs it.

However, if you want to start seeing women as a condition of her developing relationships with women, realize that most will see the OPP as confining her to the limitations of your own sexual orientation. *Many* people see "We can both see only women" as sexist, coming from someone who has no interest in men. She may not see it as unfair, so yay, you if she doesn't.


I hope you've found enough advice here to have an honest and fruitful conversation with your girlfriend, and that the two of you come to agreements that serve both of your needs. I hope you both realize that there are many potential partners in the world whose needs will complement yours.

I will do exactly that. If she has that kind of intentions, our relationship is over.

Well, I am not the one asking for this. I could maybe be able to cope with her being with another woman but absolutely not with another man. If she wants to pursue relationships with women as much as it needs our relationship to change, I feel that she should be also making some kind of compromise.

I have heard plenty and I do hope we get everything agreed in a way that both of us are comfortable with our relationship.