Cheating

[FallenAngelina]

This forum used to be about honesty and communication.

It still is.

This forum has hundreds of members, we're just a very few talking in this thread. Your position is clear, based on your experience. My position is that demonizing people and calling names is never helpful if honesty and communication are our ultimate values. That "skank" is a person, as full of complexities and contradictions as any of us. The dramatic stories are the ones that make the headlines, that get talked about online, etc., but for the most part, cheating goes on quietly and frequently - everywhere - in all socioeconomic strata and in all neighborhoods. It's better to live life trying to understand people rather than calling them dehumanizing names, especially when those people are our friends, neighbors, sisters, mothers.

This is a discussion forum, not a poly policy forum. We don't speak as a blok, we talk about things from our individual points of view. That this forum attracts individuals who think and articulately speak for themselves, which includes you, WhatHappened, is what I value most about this place. That we're even having a very interesting discussion such as this is why I'm here.

 

[vinsanity0]

God forbid we 'demonize' people who lie to their spouse, potentially expose their spouse to diseases that can affect not only that person's health but the health of any future children, take time and money from the family, and break trust. Yep, they should really be given a gold medal of some sort.

I don't see anyone suggesting that at all. I realize you are being sarcastic, but that makes it difficult to have a conversation.

If something is lacking in their relationship MAN UP. Deal with it with the spouse and either fix it or be honest about moving on.

In an idyllic mononormative world, maybe. One thing nobody is mentioning is how the one who was cheated on should "man up" (interesting choice of phrasing) and face their part in what happened. When my first wife had an affair that was probably the hardest thing for me to do. It's much easier to put all the blame on the cheater.

I still cannot believe I'm hearing a defense of deception and lying on a forum that, when I joined, held HONESTY and COMMUNICATION as the highest values.

Nobody is defending anything.

Now many here are defending...excuse me 'explaining'... dishonesty and refusal to communicate even important facts like, 'hey, honey, I just had sex without protection and maybe we should both get tested.'

I can't speak for anyone. Personally, I have not reached that level of paranoia.

Okay, so if only 5% of betrayed spouses get STIs, that makes it okay?

If the spouse is one of the lucky ones who doesn't get an STI, it makes the cheating okay??? Are YOU okay with someone having bareback sex and coming home to sleep with you and not mentioning it?

It makes it less of an epidemic than you and others are making it out to be.

Yes, I'm fine with my partners being fluid bonded with others. As I stated previously, I have always trusted their judgement. However, I'm not sure why you are assuming that everyone who cheats does not use a condom.

Thank God I got no STI from my cheating XH. His cheating is part of what led to divorce. But I guess my kids shouldn't be affected by divorce as long as I didn't get an actual STI? I guess that's all that should matter to them, not their family being broken up?

You are making contradictory arguments. On one hand you are saying that cheating leads to divorce, which is bad for the children. On the other hand, you are saying the partner should "man up" and move on, which also leads to divorce. As other people have stated, most cheaters have no interest in ending their relationship. I wonder how many people go through life blissfully unaware that they have been cheated on.

His cheating did lead to a nasty recurring series of bacterial vaginitis, that cost a lot of money and a lot of pain, but hey, as long as I'm not actually dead from an STI, it's okay? Sorry, but I don't appreciate being put through that.

It's unlikely his cheating caused your vaginitis.

His cheating also led to his 24 year old skank GF doing actual damage to our car which could have killed him. (Funny how emotions get involved with sex and affairs.)

I guess as long as he died from a car spinning out on the highway but I didn't get an STI, cheating somehow doesn't matter and the kids should have been okay with that? HEY, Dad's dead, but mom never got an STI!!!

An extreme example to be sure.

You seem to be highly focused on the STI thing. Any particular reason why?

What if the bunny boiler had found our home and done the same damage and I'd been driving the car with my young children in it? Hey, my kid's now dead, but I didn't get an STI, so what they hey, I guess cheating isn't that big a deal...

What if? LOL. What if she hijacked an airplane and flew it into your house? There are a million scenarios. What if he never cheated and some random stranger shot you in a driveby? Would you blame that on the non-cheating?

I'm glad at least we're now talking about the potential physical ramifications of STIs. They happen and they matter, whether it's 10% or 80% or more.

But I'm still shocked at how cheating and all its destruction to a marriage is being dismissed as not that big a deal and 'poor cheaters being given a bad rap.'

Yeah...HONESTY, COMMUNICATION. If they don't solve the problem, end the marriage, but there is no justification for lying to a trusting partner and cheating.

This forum used to be about honesty and communication.

It still is. Yet, when people are having an honest discussion, you feel the need to be sarcastic and offensive.

I get it. You were cheated on. You don't seem to have resolved that. You still carry around a lot of anger about it. A LOT, whether you see it or not. I hope you can find some happiness at some point. I was cheated on as well. I choose to not let it consume me.

 

[vinsanity0]

Bully for them. ONLY ONE PERSON. What if that one person passes on a disease? What if that one person is a crazy bunny boiler whose actions cause real harm?

If something is missing in a relationship:

WORK ON THE PROBLEM HONESTLY.
IF you can't solve it...be honest and leave.

"Something is lacking" does NOT justify lying to your trusting spouse, let alone sleeping with someone else, breaking trust, and exposing them and your children to all the potential fallout of an affair (not just STIs, but the things I mentioned above).

I think you feel this is a "gotcha" moment, but you are posting that in a poly forum. Most of us face all that without any cheating involved. The world is full of "what ifs".

Still, I agree that honesty and communication should be the goal.

 

[Magdlyn]

God forbid we 'demonize' people who lie to their spouse, potentially expose their spouse to diseases that can affect not only that person's health, but the health of any future children, take time and money from the family, and break trust. Yep, they should really be given a gold medal of some sort.

If something is lacking in their relationship, MAN UP. Deal with it with the spouse, and either fix it or be honest about moving on.

I still cannot believe I'm hearing a defense of deception and lying on a forum that, when I joined, held HONESTY and COMMUNICATION as the highest values.

Now many here are defending... excuse me, 'explaining'... dishonesty and refusal to communicate even important facts like, 'Hey, honey, I just had sex without protection and maybe we should both get tested.'

Okay, so if only 5% of betrayed spouses get STIs, that makes it okay?

If the spouse is one of the lucky ones who doesn't get an STI, it makes the cheating okay??? Are YOU okay with someone having bareback sex and coming home to sleep with you and not mentioning it?

Thank God I got no STI from my cheating XH. His cheating is part of what led to divorce. But I guess my kids shouldn't be affected by divorce as long as I didn't get an actual STI? I guess that's all that should matter to them, not their family being broken up?

His cheating did lead to a nasty recurring series of bacterial vaginitis, that cost a lot of money and a lot of pain, but hey, as long as I'm not actually dead from an STI, it's okay? Sorry, but I don't appreciate being put through that.

His cheating also led to his 24 year old skank GF doing actual damage to our car, which could have killed him. (Funny how emotions get involved with sex and affairs.)

I guess as long as he died from a car spinning out on the highway, but I didn't get an STI, cheating somehow doesn't matter, and the kids should have been okay with that? HEY, Dad's dead, but mom never got an STI!!!

What if the bunny boiler had found our home and done the same damage and I'd been driving the car with my young children in it? Hey, my kid's now dead, but I didn't get an STI, so what the hey, I guess cheating isn't that big a deal...

I'm glad at least we're now talking about the potential physical ramifications of STIs. They happen and they matter, whether it's 10% or 80% or more.

But I'm still shocked at how cheating and all its destruction to a marriage is being dismissed as not that big a deal and 'poor cheaters being given a bad rap.'

Yeah...HONESTY, COMMUNICATION. If they don't solve the problem, end the marriage, but there is no justification for lying to a trusting partner and cheating.

This forum used to be about honesty and communication.

Bully for them. ONLY ONE PERSON. What if that one person passes on a disease? What if that one person is a crazy bunny boiler whose actions cause real harm?

If something is missing in a relationship:

WORK ON THE PROBLEM HONESTLY.
IF you can't solve it...be honest and leave.

"Something is lacking" does NOT justify lying to your trusting spouse, let alone sleeping with someone else, breaking trust, and exposing them and your children to all the potential fallout of an affair (not just STIs, but the things I mentioned above).

Hi WhatHappened, I thought you'd said your piece and moved on, but I see you're just more upset than ever.

As anyone who has been here a while knows, and as can be easily searched under threads you've started, your history has been rugged.

You've shared you had a very rough dysfunctional childhood; you didn't learn about healthy boundaries. You became married and had 4 kids. Then your husband cheated on you. You divorced. You now have custody of 4 kids, (although maybe they're grown by now), you carry (or carried) 2 jobs, and your "house is falling down around your heads."

You obviously carry a deep grudge against your ex h even though it's been at least 8 years since the divorce.

Soon after the divorce, you hooked up with a married "poly" man of whom you became very fond. However, his wife was very possessive and used to walk in on you and him while you were having sex, and other invasive things besides. You still feel great anger at your perception that you were a "chew toy thrown to the dog," the dog being your bf Byron, to keep him busy, while his wife was off with her BFs. You feel second class.

You joined here in 2012 when you'd been with this guy a few months. You broke up with him... kinda... at some point, but according to your blog he's still "in love" with you (however much of a narcissist he is). You know all about his current gf. He writes you long complaining emails about his hard life under the guise of "business."

His current gf wrote you a very nasty note, and you think it's because she's jealous that Byron still writes you "warm" letters.

You've only recently cut him, his wife, and his gf off from your social media.

You probably felt like this board is one sane place to come and learn about healthy relationshipping. And now you feel betrayed that some of us who have learned from our mistakes, and healed from betrayals, and aren't speaking from bitterness and undealt-with anger, can have a broad perspective about the entire history of cheating in the last, say, 3000 years of patriarchally imposed monogamy.

 

[dingedheart]

The CDC doesn't seem to stick its nose so far up the public's ass as to pry into whether cheating was involved in transmission. I think one thing we all can agree on is that contracting any STI via a cheating situation is a severely raw deal. As you say, HIV isn't as fatal as it used to be, but it's still one of many infections. Chlamydia is actually now the most commonly reported STI and carries the most serious consequences for women who are unaware of its presence.

Oh I bet they did back in the early days of the disease. I’m sure they wanted to know everything about everyone that said infected person came in contact.

 

[FallenAngelina]

Oh I bet they did back in the early days of the disease.

OK, so that was 30+ years ago. To jump on "the threat of AIDS" is kinda passé.

 

[dingedheart]

Vinesanity had made the comment that cheating doesn’t have physically ramifications. That nobody dies from cheating and I think that’s not completely true. There are physical ramifications and there has been deaths. I’m sure the right person ( probably as you point out no longer working at the CDC / retired or dead ) could tell us how many cases of transmission and death occurred from cheating spouses. Very much the same as they could rattle off the rate of transmission from blood transfusions or any other break down.
And yes it could be incredibly small in numbers or percentages but if you knew of someone who lost their parents this way? “SURE you had to suffer lots of pain and torment but statistically this doesn’t really happen “



Also there’s one other physical ramification that I don’t think has been talked about and that’s PREGNANCY. The son or daughter that doesn’t look like the rest.


I was at a wedding last weekend and and I came upon an older woman ( relative by marriage ) who was crying ..pre service ...I thought it was because of the wedding... tears of joy and all blah blah she made some excuse and I didn’t think much of it on with the show.

Later in the night she came up to me and wanted to explain what she was crying about.....oh ok. She had been talking to her brothers wife and she told her how it’s pretty much consensus (3 older) brothers ..that the youngest son rick was not from “ their “ dad. Their dad has been dead for 15 yrs at least I went to the funeral ...he was 82 when he died. The alleged “cheating wife and mother “ was at this wedding... As she’s telling me this I was trying to figure out why would you care about that now??? So I say what difference does this make to you now? She looked at me like I was on another planet ...what if I’m not my fathers daughter ?? What if my whole life was a lie. Wait I thought we were talking about Rick. Yes we were but what about me and Kathy ? Then someone else came up and the subject quickly changed and I ran to the bar to get away.

I think those are big ramifications if they’re still haunting people 40 yrs after the fact.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

Personally I've felt increasing rage and instability from that direction for a while. I wonder where one intervenes in some fashion.

 

[Magdlyn]

Vinsanity had made the comment that cheating doesn’t have physical ramifications, that nobody dies from cheating. However, I think that’s not completely true. There are physical ramifications, and there have been deaths. I’m sure the right person (probably, as you point out, no longer working at the CDC, or retired or dead) could tell us how many cases of transmission and death occurred from cheating spouses. Very much the same as they could rattle off the rate of transmission from blood transfusions or any other breakdown.

How can you be so "sure"? History tell us, much of early HIV/AIDS in the US was spread by the unprotected casual sex in clubs and bathhouses and elsewhere, which the gay community was taking part in. As we all know, early AIDS first hit the male gay community in the US. It wasn't "cheating." Many gay men were solo, or in open relationships where casual sex was agreed upon.

Doctors were asking (and still ask, at clinics in reference to AIDS research), have you been having unprotected sex with other men (or penis bearing people)? As far as I know, they weren't asking, are you cheating? I go to a clinic which specializes in the queer community. You have the option of telling your doctor whether you participate in promiscuous relations, either ethical or non-ethical (and you won't be judged). It's not the right of the doctor to be told this.

And yes, it could be incredibly small in numbers or percentages, but if you knew of someone who lost their parents this way? "Sure, you had to suffer lots of pain and torment, but statistically this doesn’t really happen."

OK, we can all agree unprotected sex of any kind can lead to disease. The unsubstantiated assumption is that cheaters (in this day and age especially) are less likely to use condoms than non-cheaters, singles, swingers, polyamorists, etc.

Also there’s one other physical ramification that I don’t think has been talked about, pregnancy. The son or daughter that doesn’t look like the rest.

I was at a wedding last weekend and I came upon an older woman (a relative by marriage), who was crying pre-service. I thought it was because of the wedding, tears of joy and all. She made some excuse, and I didn’t think much of it. On with the show.

Later in the evening, she came up to me and wanted to explain what she was crying about. She had been talking to her brother's wife, and she told her how it’s pretty much the consensus of the 3 older brothers, that the youngest son Rick was not from their dad.

Their dad has been dead for 15 years at least. I went to the funeral. He was 82 when he died. The alleged "cheating wife and mother" was at this wedding.

As she’s telling me this, I was trying to figure out, "Why would you care about that now?" So I said, "What difference does this make to you now?" She looked at me like I was from another planet, and said, "What if I’m not my father's daughter? What if my whole life was a lie?"

"Wait," I said, "I thought we were talking about Rick."

"Yes, we were, but what about Kathy and me?"

Then someone else came up and the subject quickly changed, and I ran to the bar to get away.

I think those are big ramifications if they’re still haunting people 40 yrs after the fact.

These are big ramifications, no doubt. That is why feminism and modern polyamory and the entire sexual revolution is so important.

I bet if you checked the DNA of everyone on the planet, there would be millions of siblings who would find out they only share the DNA of one parent, not both. Humans are meant to be in multi-partner relationships. Monogamy is imposed by the patriarchy. If we work hard at raising the awareness of ethical non-monogamy, modern people will no longer need to cheat. And then, ideally, all offspring could know who their biological father is, whether their mother's long term mate (if she has one), or someone else.

In the old days, monogamy was an ownership-based patriarchal imposition. Now, we can all admit people like variety. Polygyny was allowed for men in many areas all along. Polyandry was and is much rarer. We polyamorists can admit, and live with that fact, that people can fall in love with, and be sexually attracted to, more than one person in their lives.

DNA awareness can be important when predicting congenital disease transmission. So, openness about one's partners can aid in preventing disease, and maybe even deaths caused by them.

 

[MeeraReed]

I think those are big ramifications if they’re still haunting people 40 yrs after the fact.

dingedheart, you seem to be missing the point of your own story! The husband of the cheating wife apparently forgave her long ago. Or at least, he remained married to her until dying at age 82 and never let on that his youngest son wasn't really his.

If it was obvious to the three brothers, the father probably knew too. Maybe he chose to overlook it and pretend he didn't know. Maybe he and his wife discussed it openly and he forgave her. Either way he seemed to have moved on and continued to live his life and raise his three sons as if they were all his.

Which is kind of the point of what we are saying--cheating is very common, and a lot of couples are actually able to work it out, or pretend it didn't happen, or whatever they decide privately. Because a lot of people actually find cheating forgivable or understandable.

As for the older lady who was crying--that sounds like HER problem that has nothing to do with whether her husband (or other relative??) & his brothers might have a different father. She was crying because she was contemplating whether she wasn't her father's daughter??? This lady has issues. Whatever happened in the brothers' parents marriage was none of her business.

The problem isn't cheating, it's that people still gossip about what goes on in other people's marriages 50 years after the fact!

My dad has an aunt who raised 5 kids on a farm in rural New Hampshire in the 1960s & 1970s. It was an open secret that the youngest two kids had a different father. Her husband had actually left her in the early 1970s to run away to be gay in the "big" city of Nashua, NH. Her last two kids were born after that...and everyone in town knew their father was the married farmer who lived down the hill (although the kids had the same last name as their older siblings).

The married farmer remained married and had other kids with his legal wife. Strangely enough (so went the gossip in town), the wife seemed to get along just fine with the other woman. They did neighborly farm stuff like loan each other cows or whatever. Their kids were all friends.

Many years later, the married farmer is long dead (as is my great-aunt's original husband), and all the kids grew up (and some of them even passed away by now). Then my great-aunt herself passed away (the mother of the 5 kids). My dad's youngest cousin (one of the two fathered out of wedlock by the married farmer) still lives in town and has a daughter. The daughter was getting married last year. To everyone's surprise, the farmer's widow loaned the daughter her farm field so she could have an inexpensive outdoor wedding in her hometown. The widow clearly knew that the bride was her husband's secret granddaughter, but no one ever openly said this. And it was a beautiful wedding!

In an even bigger surprise, this year the widow moved into assisted living and divided up her husband's farmland among ALL his children--including the two borne by the other women. It's the talk of the town

But clearly, cheating happens and sometimes people just handle it.

 

[ref2018]

My husband's uncle has a different biological father from all the other kids in my MIL's family, and everyone has known about it since they were little, and they all accept each other as full siblings, and no one cares that the mother fucked another man once upon a time.

 

[dingedheart]

dingedheart, you seem to be missing the point of your own story! The husband of the cheating wife apparently forgave her long ago. Or at least, he remained married to her until dying at age 82 and never let on that his youngest son wasn't really his.

I’m not sure where you got those ideas. They divorced when the women in question was 12 or 13...I never had a conversation with him as to why they got divorced and if there was affairs and if he forgave her. BUT a I doubt it. She went on to marry 3 other men after him. I met one of those individuals because she brought the guy to my wedding.

If it was obvious to the three brothers, the father probably knew too. Maybe he chose to overlook it and pretend he didn't know. Maybe he and his wife discussed it openly and he forgave her. Either way he seemed to have moved on and continued to live his life and raise his three sons as if they were all his.

I think he knew and they were directly told BY HIM ...not exactly the class act in your little story but whatever. Yes he did raise his three sons but we are talking about the rick ...the 4th son. Rick went off with mommy. Not sure but rick had all sorts of issues and problems as a child. Who’s to say if it was genetics or neglect or just being treated differently the break up of the family, etc etc etc. Sadly at age 16 he ran away ( living with his mother at the time ) and wasn’t heard from for several yrs. I’ve been told he had numerous scrapes with the law and incarceration and has been in rehab several / many times the last for heroin. By contrast the other brothers ended up in the family plastics business and are all millionaires.

Which is kind of the point of what we are saying--cheating is very common, and a lot of couples are actually able to work it out, or pretend it didn't happen, or whatever they decide privately. Because a lot of people actually find cheating forgivable or understandable.

Yeah maybe. Not in the case that I presented and I haven’t seen much of that in my world but then again you’re only going to see the ones that didn’t work out vs the ones that did.

As for the older lady who was crying--that sounds like HER problem that has nothing to do with whether her husband (or other relative??) & his brothers might have a different father. She was crying because she was contemplating whether she wasn't her father's daughter??? This lady has issues. Whatever happened in the brothers' parents marriage was none of her business.

Sorry wrong again. Everyone in question was her sibling the older brothers and her younger brother rick. I think she was wondering if they thought she was from another father too...yrs apart. I think that was implied and I didn’t get it at first.

The problem isn't cheating, it's that people still gossip about what goes on in other people's marriages 50 years after the fact!

Is it gossip to talk about what happened in your own family...your own mother and father ? I think it might have been bad timing to do it at the granddaughters wedding but knowing who she was talking with I’m sure it wasn’t meant in a mean or hostile way.

My dad has an aunt who raised 5 kids on a farm in rural New Hampshire in the 1960s & 1970s. It was an open secret that the youngest two kids had a different father. Her husband had actually left her in the early 1970s to run away to be gay in the "big" city of Nashua, NH. Her last two kids were born after that...and everyone in town knew their father was the married farmer who lived down the hill (although the kids had the same last name as their older siblings).

The married farmer remained married and had other kids with his legal wife. Strangely enough (so went the gossip in town), the wife seemed to get along just fine with the other woman. They did neighborly farm stuff like loan each other cows or whatever. Their kids were all friends.

Many years later, the married farmer is long dead (as is my great-aunt's original husband), and all the kids grew up (and some of them even passed away by now). Then my great-aunt herself passed away (the mother of the 5 kids). My dad's youngest cousin (one of the two fathered out of wedlock by the married farmer) still lives in town and has a daughter. The daughter was getting married last year. To everyone's surprise, the farmer's widow loaned the daughter her farm field so she could have an inexpensive outdoor wedding in her hometown. The widow clearly knew that the bride was her husband's secret granddaughter, but no one ever openly said this. And it was a beautiful wedding!

In an even bigger surprise, this year the widow moved into assisted living and divided up her husband's farmland among ALL his children--including the two borne by the other women. It's the talk of the town

But clearly, cheating happens and sometimes people just handle it.

I think we can all learn a lot from farm folk

 

[dingedheart]

How can you be so "sure"? History tell us, much of early HIV/AIDS in the US was spread by the unprotected casual sex in clubs and bathhouses and elsewhere, which the gay community was taking part in. As we all know, early AIDS first hit the male gay community in the US. It wasn't "cheating." Many gay men were solo, or in open relationships where casual sex was agreed upon.

.

I’m surprised that you of all people never heard of bisexual men or gay men pretending to be straight with wife and kids slipping off to have sex with other men. I believe a blogging member here on the forum had it happen recently with her husband’s step dad. I don’t remember all the details of that incident so maybe he wasn’t actually pretending to be straight when she married him but you get the point.

I did a quick office poll and my office manager said she thought Oprah did a show on it...back when Oprah had a daytime show.

Doctors were asking (and still ask, at clinics in reference to AIDS research), have you been having unprotected sex with other men (or penis bearing people)? As far as I know, they weren't asking, are you cheating? I go to a clinic which specializes in the queer community. You have the option of telling your doctor whether you participate in promiscuous relations, either ethical or non-ethical (and you won't be judged). It's not the right of the doctor to be told this.

Yes penis bearing people :

I think you’re thinking of this backwards. If person went in any clinic specialized or not and had a positive test for HIV the questions would be the same...who/ list all the penis being people are you having unprotected sex or any sex with. If the answer is one my BF or husband / or they the penis bearer.....the penis bearer has some splaining to do.

These are big ramifications, no doubt. That is why feminism and modern polyamory and the entire sexual revolution is so important.

It feels weird when you agree with me

I bet if you checked the DNA of everyone on the planet, there would be millions of siblings who would find out they only share the DNA of one parent, not both. Humans are meant to be in multi-partner relationships. Monogamy is imposed by the patriarchy. If we work hard at raising the awareness of ethical non-monogamy, modern people will no longer need to cheat. And then, ideally, all offspring could know who their biological father is, whether their mother's long term mate (if she has one), or someone else.

In the old days, monogamy was an ownership-based patriarchal imposition. Now, we can all admit people like variety. Polygyny was allowed for men in many areas all along. Polyandry was and is much rarer. We polyamorists can admit, and live with that fact, that people can fall in love with, and be sexually attracted to, more than one person in their lives.

DNA awareness can be important when predicting congenital disease transmission. So, openness about one's partners can aid in preventing disease, and maybe even deaths caused by them.

I think some of the interest in the DNA ancestry mapping is to verify these things. I know kids given up in closed adoption use such services to locate birth parents and or siblings.

 

[FallenAngelina]

I know kids given up in closed adoption use such services to locate birth parents and or siblings.

I'm such a kid and I had my DNA tested in the National Geographic Genome Project (so it was legit.) 30 years ago, I found my birth parents who told me of long Jewish family histories, but much to all of our surprise, my genetics has not only Jewish markers (which we all predicted) but a huge non-Jewish Tuscan influence of which there was absolutely no awareness of anyone in either of my birth families. Dramatic wedding story families and closed adoption kids are the tips of the iceberg when it comes to family baby secrets. History is jam packed with secret affairs and resulting babies. To greater or lesser degrees, everyone would have surprises in store if they got their DNA tested because family records are very different than actual family goings-on. I wouldn't call secret baby origins a casualty of affairs, it's so common that I'd call it a normal aspect of human history - including the history that is happening this very day.

To be all pearl clutchy about affairs is to completely misunderstand humanity.

 

[ElMango]

As far as I know, they weren't asking, are you cheating?

Every doctor I've seen for any sexually or "feminine" issues asks me, in private and make anyone else leave the room, if I am engaging in non-mono sex. The leaving the room of my partner is very obviously to ensure he doesn't know the answer or even the question. Not in a judgmental way, but to protect the person from any ramifications to their choices.

I bet if you checked the DNA of everyone on the planet, there would be millions of siblings who would find out they only share the DNA of one parent, not both.

I took the 23 and me thing, I have looots of minorly related people. Including some that are substantiated that they're probably not 'fully' related to me.

Humans are meant to be in multi-partner relationships.

No disagreement here. But the point if this not that, but the breaching of trust and not ethically handling a situation. That is wrong, the person doing it is making an active choice that affects more than themselves.

If we work hard at raising the awareness of ethical non-monogamy, modern people will no longer need to cheat.

There is no need to break your contract with a partner. Divorce is legally an option for people and accepted with society. Hell, it's allowed now even within the royal family.

DNA awareness can be important when predicting congenital disease transmission. So, openness about one's partners can aid in preventing disease, and maybe even deaths caused by them.

Personally, I believe that if you /knowingly/ will pass on a genetic condition to someone that will severely impact their lives in a negative way and kill them, you're not in the right.

Maybe he and his wife discussed it openly and he forgave her. Either way he seemed to have moved on and continued to live his life and raise his three sons as if they were all his.

That fact doesn't change the ethics of the cheating. He forgave her (which implies they were in the wrong).


The lack of ethics of the situation is what we are saying. That breaking that contract is wrong, and something they shouldn't have done. That, the cheater is not a victim of anything more than their own issues that they should handle rather than create a situation that negatively affects others, potentially in severe ways.

 

[MeeraReed]

Okay, dingedheart, I still don't understand your wedding story. You are saying that a sister (already an older woman at the time) learned from her own brother's wife at a wedding that her youngest sibling didn't have the same father as her? And this was new information to her (causing her to cry and wonder if her own father is also someone else)? But the fact that her parents had divorced and her youngest brother had gone with the mom who married multiple times, hadn't been a clue that her brother had another father? It was still some deep family secret that was only revealed by a brother's wife at a wedding many years later?

Your writing style is very difficult to understand!

 

[ref2018]

Every doctor I've seen for any sexually or "feminine" issues asks me, in private and make anyone else leave the room, if I am engaging in non-mono sex. The leaving the room of my partner is very obviously to ensure he doesn't know the answer or even the question. Not in a judgmental way, but to protect the person from any ramifications to their choices.

Really? In my 30+ years of "feminine" issues and going to the GYN, I've never even been asked about my sex life or number of partners by *any* doctor (I have volunteered certain information myself though), except whether or not I was using birth control and/or could be pregnant. I have also never brought any of my partners into the exam room to begin with, so there has never been a "leaving of the room" needed.

 

[MeeraReed]

Really? In my 30+ years of "feminine" issues and going to the GYN, I've never even been asked about my sex life or number of partners by *any* doctor (I have volunteered certain information myself though), except whether or not I was using birth control and/or could be pregnant. I have also never brought any of my partners into the exam room to begin with, so there has never been a "leaving of the room" needed.

I've had the same experience. Since exiting my 20s, my GYNs just seem to assume I must be monogamous. I have to explain that I'm not, and explicitly request STI testing.

ElMango, I wonder if your doctor makes a special effort to get your partner out of the room because it's unusual to bring a partner to a GYN exam (unless for pregnancy)? Maybe from the doctor's point of view, they are trying to assess if your partner is controlling and you can't speak freely.

 

[Magdlyn]

Okay, dingedheart, I still don't understand your wedding story. You are saying that a sister (already an older woman at the time) learned from her own brother's wife at a wedding that her youngest sibling didn't have the same father as her? And this was new information to her (causing her to cry and wonder if her own father is also someone else)? But the fact that her parents had divorced and her youngest brother had gone with the mom who married multiple times, hadn't been a clue that her brother had another father? It was still some deep family secret that was only revealed by a brother's wife at a wedding many years later?

Your writing style is very difficult to understand!

It is. That's why I almost always edit his text when I respond to him. Not to be a jerk but to figure out what he's saying in between ellipses and lower case ramblings. But I still like the guy.

Really? In my 30+ years of "feminine" issues and going to the GYN, I've never even been asked about my sex life or number of partners by *any* doctor (I have volunteered certain information myself though), except whether or not I was using birth control and/or could be pregnant. I have also never brought any of my partners into the exam room to begin with, so there has never been a "leaving of the room" needed.

I never brought my ex husband in. I did bring Pixi to a new gynecologist after my PCP told me she suspected cancer in my endometrium and sent me to this guy. And this guy didn't ask me if I had multiple partners, or was cheating, or whatever the heck. (And I did have cancer, btw.)

I've had the same experience. Since exiting my 20s, my GYNs just seem to assume I must be monogamous. I have to explain that I'm not, and explicitly request STI testing.

ElMango, I wonder if your doctor makes a special effort to get your partner out of the room because it's unusual to bring a partner to a GYN exam (unless for pregnancy)? Maybe from the doctor's point of view, they are trying to assess if your partner is controlling and you can't speak freely.

Hmm!

 

[ElMango]

I

ElMango, I wonder if your doctor makes a special effort to get your partner out of the room because it's unusual to bring a partner to a GYN exam (unless for pregnancy)? Maybe from the doctor's point of view, they are trying to assess if your partner is controlling and you can't speak freely.

I mean I literally told them the reasons I wanted him in (super long wait and I wanted company and I felt really gross and nervous because I was having idiopathic uterine pain and was nervous). I literally said I wanted him there multiple times.

I have preexisting conditions and don't like going in alone. I'd honestly bring B and Z if I could (only one has been available). I've spent too much time in hospitals and doctors offices. They refused to let him in when I had my IUD put in even though I explained why I wanted to and it made the experience so much worse. The abortion clinic has been the only one to make it so I felt okay enough to not feel nervous.

Tbh, they basically never respect what I want.
I don't bring him in for routine things because they'rewell, routine. And I'm still asked about partners. Canada can be weird. Or maybe just the fact my city is hella conservative.

If any hormonal or uterine things are being discussed I'm asked if I'm pregnant.

My current GP doesn't ask about anbut wanting a std screening because he's made notes about my poly status.