Coming out

[rory]

Just as parents need to accept that their children are adults making their own choices, part of the growing up process is accepting that our parents are no longer our parents. It is possible to see them as just people. Yes, they are the people who gave us life, instilled their beliefs and values in us, loved us, nurtured us, and raised us, but they aren't parenting us anymore and at some point there has to be a disengagement from the emotional need for their approval. The only way I know how to do that is to stop thinking of them as our parents. Really, to step back a bit and start looking at them as almost strangers you are just getting to know. That doesn't mean we don't honor them and show respect for what they gave us, but it is a letting go of any romantic notions that they still have power over us. It can be done. I know people who have, and they have wonderful friendships with their parents because of it. I was able to do that with my father, which freed me a great deal from unhealthy attachment to him, but I couldn't completely do that with my mother. It's a process, but it starts with proactively choosing to see them differently.

Thank you for this. I think that's an excellent aim. I think there's a lot of baggage with my father, which is making it hard. I haven't been able to forgive him some things, and communicating with him raises a lot of difficult emotions. I really don't want to hold a grudge, and I believe he's sincere in that he admits his responsibility and regrets a lot of the things. I don't know why I can't reach forgiveness, since in my other relationships I don't find it difficult at all. I do think that I've made some progress with the process you're describing, the intense sad feelings I had when writing that post are quite uncommon, and I generally don't care a lot about his opinions. I think there may have been more contributing to that than what I felt the reason was.

 

[Minxxa]

Thank you for this. I think that's an excellent aim. I think there's a lot of baggage with my father, which is making it hard. I haven't been able to forgive him some things, and communicating with him raises a lot of difficult emotions. I really don't want to hold a grudge, and I believe he's sincere in that he admits his responsibility and regrets a lot of the things. I don't know why I can't reach forgiveness, since in my other relationships I don't find it difficult at all. I do think that I've made some progress with the process you're describing, the intense sad feelings I had when writing that post are quite uncommon, and I generally don't care a lot about his opinions. I think there may have been more contributing to that than what I felt the reason was.

I think it can be easier to forgive others, as opposed to our parents, because there can be a great deal of expectations as to what parents are "supposed" to do, give, and be in a child's life. We want them to be certain things for us, but in the end, they are just people like everyone else.

In one of my counseling classes my teacher expressed how it may be helpful to go through a "grieving" process-- to grieve for the mom (or dad) you wanted to have, but didn't. Grieve the fantasy of what you would have preferred... because in a way it IS a loss that you didn't have that.

 

[rory]

I think I have done that, and I've moved past it to anger and hate. I try to let go of that, but it always raises its ugly head. I guess I'm not good at handling it, since those are scarier feelings for me. (This is getting a bit off topic, but I appreciate the responses.)

 

[Laluna]

Well I'm lucky to have been raised in a very open family lifestyle. There have been a few poly family friends. My sister was born following my father's vasectomy, which certainly raised a few eyebrows in the extended, very Christian family.

For me, it's always been natural to love, as much as you can and whomever you wish, and to express that in whatever form suits. I discovered the term poly when I was about 17. Didn't look into it much, but it seemed to fit. I explained the concept to my mother and a few friends at the time.

I still think I'm a bit of a poly virgin, having only been in one relationship which was essentially a monogamous one. My partner of three years and I have now technically split up, but are still living together and exploring the idea of a poly relationship, something I want, and he's still unsure of being able to handle.

So as it hasn't been a practiced lifestyle, I haven't had to *come out* as such. I expect I would receive a similar response to what I already get mentioning my father's boyfriend, which varies from surprise to confusion, but everyone has been quite accepting.

My friends are a very open-minded alternative bunch. My teacher is poly, and I'm an artist, so I don't have any employers to worry about, well, except for my parttime job in a traveling carnival freakshow.

So the only person in my life whose reactions come under serious consideration is my daughter, whose exposure will be limited until her father feel more comfortable. As I am not practicing a poly lifestyle it doesn't matter so much.

I suppose the point is I am confident that all the people in my life are open-minded and accepting. This however does not mean they are comfortable being in a poly relationship themselves.

 

[ChloeJane]

As a LGBT advocate and political activist for a long time, I have seriously been questioning whether to come out as a bisexual polyamorist for some time now. I have collected thousands of signatures for petitions for queer rights to the UN, joined coalitions to keep "gay books" in libraries in the State of Washington, and have my business listed on every gay-friendly site that exists. I am an equal-rights employer, have mentored young queers in business and life, and put advertisements in queer magazines/papers to support their work.

But me? The public knows me as a straight, married businesswoman. Up until last year, I had never actually been with a woman, and it has been a true awakening process in my life. I am now with my third girlfriend, and it's a wonderful relationship that could last a long time. My husband and I see her regularly.

I have told my close friends about all three women in my life and experienced a lot of acceptance and support. I don't have any bigoted friends that I know of. But I know that "the public" can be a different story. I have a high profile in my community. I am on a first-name basis with the mayor, attend a lot of prestigious community events, get invited to sit in boxes for hockey games, have won a lot of awards presented to me by some bigwigs in politics for environmentalism and community involvement.

Some of my friends say that this makes it an even more powerful statement to come out, that because I already have earned respect for what I do, and who I am in my community, it will turn their stereotypes on their heads, and give them a practical example of a "normal person" being into an alternative lifestyle. I also know, given today's political arena, that there is a certain cachet in knowing someone who is GLBT. I am still reluctant, though. I am protective of my private life in general, and don't like the idea of being able to be written off by people who previously respected me. I fear losing my effectiveness as a community member based on bigotry from the Religious Right that also holds a lot of power/influence in our community. I had three people of significance put me forward for a position on City Council this year, and I can see myself doing a good job serving my community down the line. What if my coming out changes their viewpoints in my capability or the appropriateness of serving my community?

When I was in my teens, you could see my politics all over me: shaved head, piercings, always at a rally, march or protest. Now I am in disguise: long blonde hair, snappy dresser... same politics, but camouflaged. And I have discovered that I create MUCH more positive change WITH hair than without, that my outward appearance makes people comfortable, and capable of actualizing my politics in arenas that ripple out and create tangible change for others in my community.

It's an interesting place to be. At first I thought it was just a phase, and that I would experiment and be done with it. But I love women just as much as I have ever loved men; I have even toyed with the idea of having a female primary partner down the line should I ever be single again. (I love my husband, don't get me wrong, but you just never know how life will unfold!) I am in the middle of two worlds right now... Decisions, decisions.

My sister knows and is super accepting. She is trans, poly and heavily into the BDSM scene. My parents? Not yet. But I doubt they'd be overly surprised that they've raised two weirdos, given that they're two weirdos themselves. LOL (I use the term weirdos in a respectful, joking way here, to be clear!)

 

[rory]

Wow, ChloeJane, that's a tough one!

I can see how you can do a lot of good in your position, and that might be threatened if/when you come out. Then again, being out might cause other kinds of good things. And I totally understand your concern for your career. While I really value openness, I find it unlikely that the political community would be ready for public polyamory. Bisexuality, maybe, but poly is just so "out there."

I'm a student now, but some of my dreams for future involve a position not unlike yours, so I've been pondering these kinds of things a bit lately. I'm out now, but I'm not sure if that would be feasible in a political workplace (where you're not supposed to advertise your personal life, and yet it's ok that everybody knows you're married ).

From what you say about your position, I think I would not commit to never coming out, but neither would I do it just yet. I would wait until I'm on a REALLY stable basis with the girlfriend, as in, when I would be ready to get married, were it allowed by law. At that point, I would consider coming out. It's like with public figures in gay/lesbian relationships: they are "role models," they have to show that same-sex-relationships are committed and respectable and all that. If you do go public, you can't have a messy (or even a non-messy) break-up with either of your partners without it being held as evidence about poly being non-committed (because monogamous straight couples never break up, right? ). And I guess you might need to commit to polyfidelity, because I'm sure any outside sexual relationships would attract even more unreasonable amounts of scandal-seeking media attention than they do with the straight/monogamous public figures.

Then, I don't know. Somebody who is in your position, and ethically poly, might be able to have a big impact on public perception of polyamory, if they are careful about how and when to come out, but not without considerable personal risk.

 

[riftara]

I want to be out so bad. I want to explain to my mom what's up. I think she will have more of problem with me having a gf than anything else. She knows I'm with F, and John is coming home soon. Her thoughts have been just "things will be interesting." She doesn't have too much of a problem, but I haven't really explained it.

My boyfriend's dad and stepmom know, and some siblings and cousins.

I don't know if our other parents will ever know.

 

[ChloeJane]

Wow, ChloeJane, that's a tough one!

I can see how you can do a lot of good in your position, and that might be threatened if/when you come out. Then again, being out might cause other kinds of good things.

I too see both sides of this. In some ways, I feel like I am coasting under the radar, while my brothers and sisters in the queer world have fought with their whole beings (including their lives at times) to push forward awareness and demand to be respected, and of that, I feel ashamed. I help them fight for their rights openly, but am now hiding how I live? It's a double standard that bothers me on a fundamental level.

Somebody in your position, and ethically poly, might be able to have a big impact on public perception of polyamory, if they are careful about how and when to come out, but not without a considerable personal risk.

I think that's the important part of it; when and how I come out, should I ever get to that place. And yes, I also agree with knowing that my relationship with my girlfriend is more secure, because being polyamorous AND promiscuous would be the kiss o' death.

 

[Pretzels]

In our situation, the guys have been friends for almost a decade and have been in each other's families to various extents. If anything, I was the complete newcomer.

You can tell there's a bit of puzzling out between some of the parents. Some are more curious than others, but would never ask. Mine? Well, I've put them through enough over the years. My mother has blatantly told me, "There are some things a mom doesn't need to know." That said, she loves the guys and frequently asks how "my family" is doing.

I have more trouble is at work. I work long hours with very traditional people who think nothing of being married several times, or boasting of the threesomes they've had after nights at the bar. However, I get the feeling that if it became common knowledge that I was in a committed relationship with two men, I'd have a big, big headache on my hands.

So, as everyone gets engaged around me, I smile and say that no, nothing like that is going to happen with my boyfriend (they know about one, not the other). It's really hard to bite one's tongue, but I'm getting better at it.

 

[JohnnyDangerously]

It came up in another forum that I am poly. One other member's reaction? "That's handy. If one dies or leaves you, you've got one left!" That was shocking. I can't imagine people saying something similar for friends, or siblings, or kids, or any person you can have several of. And what is that supposed to mean, that if one dies I won't be sad because I have someone left? Then if your mom dies should you be okay because you have your dad left? I got so confused, because that post didn't even read like it was supposed to be aggressive.

OMG -- WTF??? What an ass! That's like saying it's a good thing someone has three kids so they will still have some if one dies!!!

UGH!

 

[trescool]

As a LGBT advocate and political activist for a long time, I have seriously been questioning whether to come out as a bi-sexual polyamorist for some time now.

I understand exactly what you are saying, ChloeJane. I too am a LGBTQ activist. But when the opportunity to bring up polyamory arises in the meetings I attend or participate in, my lips seem to stick shut. I am openly bisexual, but coming out as poly would be questioning one of the most fundamental values of our society, monogamous marriage AND the structure of the family. It's tough.

The way has been paved a bit for us with gay rights. People nowadays do seem to think that "Whatever you chose to do with your life, it's okay as long as everyone is a consenting adult." That is a big change from the past 50 years. But my bf's family completely FREAKED when they found out he was poly. It did NOT go well. So it's hard to know what to do when I want a stable family with my bf and any possible future OSOs, and being out and acknowledging that they're important people in my life. Even living with them is so important to me. but I dearly love my family (parents and siblings and extended family). I don't want to alienate them, and I do NOT think they'd react well.

 

[rory]

Oh yeah, I was thinking about updating that I told my brother. He's a few years younger than me. We don't hang out or have contact that much, but we're still sort of close. So, I'd decided to tell him when I felt like it was a good time. It came up when we met when I was visiting the country I'm from. I'm happy it did. The conversation was far from smooth, something like:

Brother: So, who will you be meeting when you're here?
Rory: Well... [lists a few names, some of which he has heard before]
b: Mya, who's she?
r: Umm, a friend, sort of. Well, umm... she's my girlfriend.
b: ...
r: Well, umm, we are in a relationship, and it's just like 'normal' dating, except that both of us are already married.
b: [continuation of a stunned look and a really long silence]
r: I know this isn't really common stuff, so it's okay if you're all "What the fuck?"
b: Okay, so what the fuck? Is Alec okay with it?
r: Yeah, he is fine with it. I'm not expecting any particular reaction from you, but you can ask me more, or you can ask him, or anything.

We left it at that a month ago (and we didn't really have time to go into it more in the situation), but I exchanged messages with him, because I realised I didn't really give him all the relevant info. So, something like this ensued:

r: (I did write other stuff, too) About the dating others thing, I didn't mention to you that Alec and I are in an open marriage, and he can see other people, as well. I know you didn't ask for more info or anything, but I didn't want you to get the picture that I'm just messing around and he sits there watching or something. It's more balanced than that. We've had this arrangement for several years. It's not because we're not enough to each other, but because we don't see any reason for monogamy. There hasn't really been any reason to talk about it to other people, except now that I'm in a relationship with Mya, and we're serious (together almost a year), so I want to tell people who are close to me.

b: okay, don't really know what to say to that. It's not really any of my business. I was in kind of a shock when you first told me. But you've got to admit it's not the kind of thing you're expecting to hear. I'm not going to say that I understand that kind of thing. It feels sort of twisted, but then again, you're married to Alec and I'm just your conservative brother.

r: Yeah, I'm not really expecting you to understand. I think there's a difference in how conservative we are in general. And it's okay that it was a shock, but I think it's cool that you still approach it with the attitude that it doesn't really matter if you don't understand on a personal level.

Overall, I'm really happy that I felt like telling him, and that he now knows everything relevant. I'm also happy I sent him a follow-up, even though it felt awkward. And I'm glad about his response. I mean I really didn't expect him to understand, since I had a feeling he knows nothing about open/poly relationships, and he's sort of a conservative guy in general. But not in that kind of a judgmental way, just like I can't imagine him ever (or if he doesn't change a lot) doing something so out of the ordinary in his own life. But I feel that even though he doesn't get it, he hasn't let it affect our relationship in any way, and that's cool.

 

[HanaPipers]

 

[learner]

Coming out issue

Hi all,

We've been gradually coming out to people over the last few years, mainly explaining things as an 'open marriage' because more people understand that term, although in our case it is polyamory. About a week ago I came out to my parents. And my husband has since come out to his parents, which went fine.

I have had a rocky relationship with my parents in the past, and although they initially seemed relatively accepting, they have now come back with a load of issues, the main one being that they are 'angry' that I have introduced my boyfriend of six months to my (young) children.

From my point of view, there is no intention that he will ever have any parental responsibility for the children. He has been introduced as a friend, and I don't see this as being any different to any of my other friends meeting the children. He sometimes has dinner with us, but then again, so do my other friends. Their opinion is: 'But you're not sleeping with your other friends.'

I was expecting some form of attack from them. This fits in with our previous issues where nothing I do is ever good enough; I have never think through all the consequences, etc., etc.

However, we are penciled in for some form of 'discussion' at some point. I have stated that I want my husband to be present for this, because otherwise I will be bashed with no support. They've already started on me a few times. We are going to need to resolve this somehow. Does anyone have any advice as to how we can resolve this? I have no problems coming up with counterarguments to their concerns, but they are not people you can reason with. If they believe themselves to be right, then I am automatically wrong, and nothing is going to change that.

Many thanks for listening.

 

[opalescent]

Why discuss this at all with them, at this point? If they're just going to bash you and your spouse thing, don't bother. Tell them you are satisfied with how your boyfriend has been introduced to your kids, that you would be happy to have a real discussion when they can be respectful and actually listen, but for now there is to be no discussion. If they insist, leave, hang up, walk away, go home, block their emails. Do what you need to keep this boundary.

 

[Bunny]

What are you getting out of your relationship with your parents? Is it worth all this aggravation? If not, than remember that you don't have to have a relationship with them just because you are family. What consequences would you face if you terminated communication with them? If you decide to continue the relationship, then why do you need their approval? Can they agree to disagree and remain civil?

 

[KyleKat]

There's a reason why it's called a private life. Did they need to know? Were they getting suspicious? I think if you knew this could be the outcome, and there was nothing to gain by telling them, you probably should have left it unsaid. As someone that is a blabbermouth, I often do what you do and tell people who don't need to know.

Now that it's out, just refuse to talk about the subject. Tell them it was a mistake to bring it up, and that you don't want to strain your relationship any further. Don't cut off communication. Don't run from your problems. Stand up to them and show them you aren't a child anymore.

 

[LusciousLemon]

I operate in a lot of "alternative parenting" circles. In these situations, I've learned to stand up for my point of view without engaging people in discussions or conversations about issues. DO NOT try to defend yourself, because this gives them an opening to argue with you, and makes them feel like they may be able to prove to you that you are wrong. So just don't go there. As we say in my alternative parenting circles, "Bean dip 'em." This is to say, CHANGE THE SUBJECT! "Hey mom/dad, we're poly, I have a boyfriend in addition to my husband. Would you like some bean dip?" When they bring up the "your kids knowing your boyfriend is a problem" thing, just say, "I'm sorry you feel that way. I disagree, and as their parent that is my decision to make. Would you like some bean dip?"

You can use this for any and all issues where people would like to try to convince you that your point of view is wrong. With this in mind, my partner is a male to female transexual. This is not something we could just NOT tell our parents. When my husband disappeared from my family photos, and images, and life in general, to be replaced by an eerily similar wife, that was not going to go unnoticed. So, I wrote an email to my family (I have a HUGE family, I have 7 siblings most married with kids of their own, this is how we all communicate) and in it I said, "S is transitioning to a woman. This is a brief summary as to why. This is happening. If you're curious and you want to know more, please feel free to ask politely. If you have nothing nice to say, please do not respond. If you say anything negative you will be ignored." And that was that. I have not heard one negative thing from ANY of my family, despite the fact that they are Mormon and this is "wrong" to them. In fact I've barely heard from them at all. That is their choice, but I will not take their crap and let it make my life negative.

Stand up for yourself, state what you will not accept from them, and "bean dip 'em"!

 

[IndieSolo]

It sounds like they are mostly concerned about the welfare of the kids. Is it possible that they are thinking of whether or not this issue makes you unfit as parents and may want to challenge your custody of them? (in that case, you could say they never had a problem with it before they know, so how does knowing this suddenly change how well you parent?) You might want to read Redpepper's blog or PM her. Her parents thought that their grandson's home situation was abusive and I believe they took them to court, but now they all get along very well when they proved that her son was not being abused by anyone.

 

[learner]

Thank you for all your replies; you gave some very useful advice for dealing with my parents in general!

In answer to a few of your questions-- yes, they were getting suspicious that 'something' was going on. The kids were mentioning my boyfriend's name a fair bit. I thought it was better to give them the facts than have them invent things in their heads. At the time we had the conversation, it went very well, a few minor objections, but generally no big reaction. I constantly live in hope that my parents have changed, but I was half expecting some kind of backlash.

I'm not really worried about any custody issues. They are constantly criticising how we look after the kids, despite the fact that they are all well behaved, well adjusted and happy, but I don't think they would ever go that far. We would also have the support of my husband's parents if this happened. I suspect that this conversation, if it takes place, will be mainly aimed at making us feel guilty. I don't think they will actually have any action in mind to come out of it.

In general, if I were giving advice to anyone else who wanted to come out to their parents, I would suggest giving the minimal amount of information necessary and not think that the conversation's going well, and hence spill all of it.