Confused

[swank]

My wife and I have been married for twenty years. As with most marriages, we've had our ups and downs. Lately we've been stepping up the level of fantasy during love making and somehow starting talking about involving other people we know.

We happen to have good friends that have experienced this in reality but the relationship with the other couple ended badly. Every time we've been hanging out with them, they've dropped hints that they might be interested in trying it again. They are not swingers.

My wife decided to just ask her friend straight up if they would be interested and it turns out they were. A few days later the four of us go out together for dinner, drinks, and whatever. We decided that to ease into things we should pretend we are dating each others spouse.

Honestly the evening was great for the most part. My wife and her friends husband and her friend and myself behaved like we were separate couples. Handholding, flirting but nothing blatently sexual.

We finally make it back to their place and I'm assuming that we will all end up having sex with our "dates". However things went cold. Her friend was supposedly on her cycle so she suggested that my wife and her husband have sex and she would watch. My blood started to boil and it was noticeable. I remained silent and soon after my wife's friend started calling me names and said that I had played them. I still remained silent and a few minutes later my wife and her are curled up on their couch. My wife is exposing her self and her friend says that she wants to take my wife into her bedroom to have sex. At this point I have enough and we leave. I wanted to go but my wife didn't. At this point I was completely sober but my wife and her friend were pretty drunk and on Xanax.

I'm so confused and I'm not sure if I said something wrong or wasn't really invited to participate in the first place. I was under the impression that this involved the four of us but it know feels like they just wanted permission to be with my wife.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[bookbug]

Perhaps a conversation is due with the other couple while sober. It is hard to understand intent with alcohol in the mix. While I get the idea that it's good to relax with a drink to get the ball rolling, once the group reaches the point of drunk, assumptions are made, communication fails (for example, your blood was boiling rather than just having a calm discussion about those assumptions), etc.

Could be your overall reading of the situation is accurate. But there is really no way to know until honest communication ensues all around. If the other couple is not willing to speak honestly, then while you still may not know their true intent, you will know that that are not capable of behaving like responsible adults.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you are upset.

My wife decided to just ask her friend straight up if they would be interested and it turns out they were. A few days later the four of us go out together for dinner, drinks, and whatever.

Does not sound like you talked ahead of time what to expect, and what boundaries would be in place.

Honestly the evening was great for the most part. My wife and her friends husband and her friend and myself behaved like we were separate couples. Handholding, flirting but nothing blatently sexual.

That seemed to be your comfort line for a first date, and that sounded ok.

We finally make it back to their place and I'm assuming that we will all end up having sex with our "dates".

Never assume. Speak up.

However things went cold. Her friend was supposedly on her cycle so she suggested that my wife and her husband have sex and she would watch. My blood started to boil and it was noticeable. I remained silent and soon after my wife's friend started calling me names and said that I had played them.

You remain silent when your blood started to boil? Could have spoken up right then.

Name calling? Not cool.

I wanted to go but my wife didn't. At this point I was completely sober but my wife and her friend were pretty drunk and on Xanax.

You could have left and made arrangements with wife for her to get home. If not with you, a taxi. You are all adults here.

I'm so confused and I'm not sure if I said something wrong or wasn't really invited to participate in the first place. I was under the impression that this involved the four of us but it know feels like they just wanted permission to be with my wife.

Don't start assuming some more NOW. If you must, assume positive intent.

Could own where mistakes happened. Not that you and wife decided to experiment was a mistake but the HOW you went about it -- the lack of clear communication about what to expect before, during, and after along with a safeword to bail if things got too be too much to handle. Which it seems like it did.

You could talk to your wife about how you are feeling after the experiment -- what well well (the comfort line above) and what did not go well and felt like too much too fast. Do you both plan to continue with this couple or back off?

If continuing, could arrange a date to talk with the other couple -- have the conversation you could have had before about boundaries and expectations.

If you have found you do not enjoy sex on a first date... could not do that in future. Give it more time to get to know each other better. You say your blood boiling is "obvious" but if you don't know each other well -- it might not be obvious to others. Speaking up is a must. Nobody is a mind reader.

Galagirl

 

[Dirtclustit]

Xanax

You really need to be careful if you are drinking and dabbling with prescription drugs, esp drugs that are typically known as "downers" which includes drugs like valium and xanax. When you body is also impaired by alcohol consumption, it is not unusual that it is enough anesthesia to stop your hurt. If the auto-pilot portions of your brain (the ancient relics that maintain the functions you don't have a choice in, ie where you do not have freewill, the parts of your brain that will override attempts to go against. Things like stopping your heart from beating or refusing to breathe are not things you can do. While it may make for humorous situations when people attempt to consciously stop the signal sent to their heart which forces contraction, are harmless and there really isn't any damage a person can do trying to will there heart to stop beating. But attempting to will yourself not to breathe becomes problematic because in order to override such a will entails putting the conscious part of your brain "to sleep" or in other words to pass out. But if you try to not breathe by your will alone, your body will have to override)

It's dangerous to mix alcohol with pills as those more ancient parts of your brain are not subject to your freewill for a reason

 

[SchrodingersCat]

Agree with not mixing drugs & alcohol & first time sexual encounters. Recipe for disaster.

So they set up this group date, presumably the other wife knows that she's on her cycle and therefore won't be participating in any sex stuff. And then they accuse YOU of playing THEM?

Obviously there was a lack of clear communication and planning before this started. "And whatever" is not a good plan unless you really are open to virtually any possibility, or at least willing to remain sober enough to deal with "whatever" comes up.

You need to check with your wife and with the other couple about what exactly they had planned for that night. I mean, even if she was on her cycle, if the other couple's intent was to pair off, there are plenty of ways to have fun that don't involve the spilling of menstrual blood. Or, you know, just reschedule.

Hmmm... this couple has a bad track record, and if this is their modus operandi, it's no wonder their previous relationship-thing went south.

Also, what do they mean by "not swingers?" Does that mean they want to form a romantic bond with you and your wife? Then maybe taking things slow, staying out of the booze and drugs, and learning to communicate intentions is a good place to start before getting nekkid.

 

[Dirtclustit]

Swank, I know that this couple was people you had previously known, so what I am about to say doesn't really fit the situation, but perhaps you should think about your safety, both physical/emotional as well as reputational. I know that many subscribe to the theory of "once you open your relationship you cannot close it" and that is a crock of shit, however, what holds true is once damage is done you have to deal with it as there is no turning back the clock.

Some people are extremely careless with their safety, you have to remember that there are people who you think you know, but you only know what they have chosen to show you. For your own safety, there are things you really need to think about before you "play" with another couple. For instance, some people are just down right fucking crazy, and it doesn't matter how much you tell you them the truth, they just don't get it, you'd would be amazed at how little a woman has to say to a man (sometimes nothing at all) and yet in his mind he thinks your wife implied she was in love in him and was going to leave you for him and when you guys decide you don't want to be around this guy anymore he, the crazy asshole believes he was wronged and the next thing you know you've been outed, but typically first they try to manipulate you and eventually out right blackmail you in which case your life as you know it is hell.

So you should consider it a lesson learned, because take a step back and look at your actions, would you want to get involved with someone who in regards to sex, couldn't take no for an answer?

Trust me you do not want to get involved with someone who has a problem when suddenly faced with the fact that there will be no sex.

While there certainly are people who are "no-nonsense" and will pretty much guarantee they will have sex with you -- without having ever met you and only spoken over the phone -- there are many swingers like that, however there is a world of difference between people who will have sex with pretty much anybody anywhere + they can respect a sudden decision not to have sex and someone who is just as promiscuous who cannot respect that decision.

I can certainly understand not wanting to ever make plans with the couple again (although it's fairly standard to always assume sex won't be happening on your first "date") but that is as far as you have the right to deal with a frustrating couple. Don't become one of the people it was a mistake becoming involved with.

If you are not sober for your first encounters, unless you have an extremely liberal outlook regarding sex -- as in you are just as comfortable shaking someone's hand as you are fucking them or seeing your wife fuck them -- being impaired is never a good thing. But in all honesty if you cannot go throw with a "play date" or whatever people are calling them these days, that is a fairly good indication you have at least some underlying problem which you would be wise to deal with before continuing forward.

But please take a minute to think about your actions, because even if his wife guaranteed you sex, even if you got all they way up to the point where you started to penetrate her, you need to be able to in all situations be OK with stopping and doing nothing more about it than losing their phone number. And to be honest even if you had already been having sex for fifteen minutes, even if you were only two pumps away from "finishing"

at any point when a person says stop, you stop and do nothing more about it then losing their phone number. You don't keep harassing them because you are upset, it's not like they owe you large sums of money or anything in which case I would say go ahead and blow up the phone, however when it comes to non-financial/business relationships, you keep your reactions to losing their number and forgetting they ever existed. You will be much happier in the long run

Don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean you won't be frustrated, but the ability to remain an adult in such situations will never be a mistake.

 

[swank]

Great advice

Thanks everyone for listening and offering some really great advice. I've tried on several occasions to speak with the couple regarding that night and all get from them is "it's all good". We've tried to get back together for dinner to discuss things but they continually blow us off.

The odd thing was we had all discussed the evenings plans over dinner while her friend "interviewed" me. They felt that I had condemned them for doing this sort of thing before (which I hadn't). I told them that they might be surprised at what I really thought. In retrospect, the weird thing is that neither one of them would actually come out and say what we planned on doing. Only that I hated them for doing it before. It was really strange and awkward for a bit.

I doubt we'll pursue having this type of relationship with them and hopefully get back to being the type of friends we were before. I just wish someone would tell me what they were planning that night because it a lot different then my expectations. At least a simple "we changed our minds" would suffice.

 

[bookbug]

It's probably wise to just consider this a learning experience - if someone keeps skirting the issue of what the "plan" is, then make no assumptions and do not move forward.

And hell, maybe they were really drunk and are now embarrassed by their behavior. Hard to say since communication apparently is not their strong point.

And don't be too hard on yourself or your wife. When pushing the boundaries, there is always a steep learning curve. Goes with the territory.

 

[Magdlyn]

Congrats on your first foray into poly. It must be a shock that it went so poorly, after all the fantasies you enjoyed with your wife. Fantasies are easy, people are complicated.

Going out with another couple for a "wife swap" is probably one of the hardest ways to do poly. There are too many variables. Especially if, as you're implying, the women are bi and maybe just want to be together.

Also, Xanax and too much booze. Might relax you but later, you're so fucked up you lose all sense of reality and balance.

Next time, if there is a next time, consider dating separately. Doing poly and expecting 4 people to all feel the same amounts of chemistry and desire towards the "correct" person (the other wife for you, and the other husband for your wife) is just unrealistic. I mean, it happens, but it's rare.

If your fantasies always included mind-blowing 4way sex, carry on fantasizing while knowing the chance you find that is slim.

 

[Marcus]

They are not swingers.

That sounds like the exact definition I would attribute to swingers: a couple who has casual sexual encounters with people outside of the relationship, presumably avoiding romantic/love entanglement.

It is non-monogamy but is not remotely related to polyamory. (Google is your friend)

Sorry it got weird for you, but honestly, initial non-traditional encounters like that in which there is a lot of hinting and nudging (as opposed to speaking and understanding) tend to roll that way. There were four people present and at least one of them (you) seemed to have NO IDEA what was going on. This should tell you that explicit conversation would have been better.

*Wink-wink* and *nudge-nudge* are fun, but they are far from informative.

 

[GalaGirl]

In retrospect, the weird thing is that neither one of them would actually come out and say what we planned on doing. Only that I hated them for doing it before. It was really strange and awkward for a bit.

It's a two way street. They do not volunteer info? You could ASK directly.

You could volunteer info. You could STATE directly what you are/are not comfortable with happening when.

Chalk it up to a learning experience -- now you know that for YOU, your being more assertive is more likely to get your wants/needs/and limits known and hopefully a more satisfactory experience for you.

While not ideal sounding, hopefully all can walk away from the experience without too many dings? How are you and wife holding up?

Galagirl

 

[IndieSolo]

I am sorry it was such a bummer of an experience. I am a little confused, though. Didn't I read this story already? This sounds very similar to another thread started by someone else about a month or two ago. Have you posted about it before?