Dating safety

And calling back to how can anyone imagine what it's like to be a slave? How did whites abolish slavery never having been slaves? Wow. The Irish were enslaved in the US in the 20th century. Ever heard the word indentured servant? It's a euphemism for slave.

The majority of humans in the ancient Roman world, black, white and brown, were slaves.

The majority of humans in feudal times were "serfs," aka slaves, with no property, tiny incomes, and no way of bettering themselves.

Slaves still make our Chinese sneakers and enslaved Indonesians make our Levis. Children make our soccer balls in 14 hour days, 7 days a week.
 
Magdlyn said:
.... Vanilla guys have a lot of shit buried under the vanilla, and are less respectful, I feel. They understand LESS about consent, not more than a kinky person who knows full well what they are getting into.
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Leaving aside complex ambiguities as to who is "kinky" and who is not -- see for example http://www.blogher.com/kinky-or-vanilla-which-one-are-you -- I find the above generalization both weird and a little offensive. Here, Maglyn is basically (aparently) stereotyping those not in some kind of BDSM "Lifestyle" as a person ignorant of matters of consent in sexual life. That's a very broad brush to tar all "vanilla" people with.

It's funny how so many (not all!) people need to establish such divisions and rankings and stereotypes. It's also insensitive and unkind.

Anyway, artificial vanilla tastes like crap, but the real thing is AMAZING! I'll always remember the day as a kid where I and some friends made real vanilla ice cream by hand with a hand cranking ice cream machine. We put real vanilla beans in it. It was quite an exotic flavor.

Vanilla is not plain. It's spicy and exotic. :)
 
Oh River, give me a break! You don't need to go defending "vanilla" sex in general. I was referring to the idea of needing all kinds of "references" to get involved with a kinky guy, as if they are inherently more abusive/rapey than vanilla men. It's just a side conversation brought up by Spork. I've dated lots of kinky men, my gf is kinky. I've only ever gone to one sex club one time. I am just not much of a voyeur or exhibitionist. I am not involved in the "scene," though I know many who are. I assess the safety of a kinky guy the same way I assess the safety of any other man. I've dated lots of vanilla men... I love the flavor of vanilla. (Although I do tend to uncover kinks so-called vanillas have just under the surface...)

I do think many vanillas are unaware of many layers of their personalities, desires and how to negotiate sharing intimacies. This is from personal experience. They live on the surface and just haven't felt motivated to explore their shadow sides the way that many kinksters do as a matter of course. IN MY EXPERIENCE, while there are fucked up kinksters, in general I find them kinder, friendlier, and more respectful than your average Joe, not less.
 
Magdlyn said:
Oh River, give me a break! You don't need to go defending "vanilla" sex in general. I was referring to the idea of needing all kinds of "references" to get involved with a kinky guy, as if they are inherently more abusive/rapey than vanilla men.
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Personally, I never suggested or thought that "vanilla" versus "kinky" involved any kind of generality about how safe a person was. I take people one by one, not in groups as far as safety (physical, emotional, etc.) goes. What bugged me is your apparent suggestion that kinky men are safer than "vanilla" men.

Magdlyn said:
"I assess the safety of a kinky guy the same way I assess the safety of any other man. I've dated lots of vanilla men... I love the flavor of vanilla. (Although I do tend to uncover kinks so-called vanillas have just under the surface...)

I do think many [emphasis added by River] vanillas are unaware of many layers of their personalities, desires and how to negotiate sharing intimacies. This is from personal experience. They live on the surface [emphasis added by River] and just haven't felt motivated to explore their shadow sides the way that many kinksters do as a matter of course. IN MY EXPERIENCE, while there are fucked up kinksters, in general I find them kinder, friendlier, and more respectful than your average Joe, not less.
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I resent the generalization about us "vanilla" people -- the presumption that we're more statistically likely to disrespect boundaries / consent than "kinky" folks.

I don't buy it. It seems both insensitive and rude to lump all "vanilla" people together in such a way. It would be equally rude and insensitive to lump all "kinky" people together into the same batch. Let's please get past stereotypes and generalizations?
 
I am not stereotyping and generalizing. I have had many years experience with vanilla people (as we all have) and kinky people (which very few have). I am speaking from my experience, although, anecdotally, I have talked with quite a few kinky people who agree with me.

So, when I am trying to be safe on a date, whether I date a vanilla guy or a guy who has been upfront about being involved in BDSM, I have found there is a better understanding already in place, about boundaries, safety, sobriety, (even condoms and testing) and mutual consent with the kinkier guys than with the others. Because their sexual choices carry more risk, there is more need to place emphasis on safety and consent in the first place. At least with people who know what they are doing.

JME, YMMV, etc. I'd rather chat with Spork about this, since she has experience dating kinky people, than belabor the point and turn it into some kind of pissing match. :cool:
 
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