Dealing with Jealousy with new metamour

Also have been reading people saying they prefer names to just initials so have included some names (a little chemistry joke) if you'd prefer to use.
 
Small dating tip that while it should be obvious, will hopefully be remembered if you see it in black and white: Don't spend your date with O talking about T and V. Be curious about O.
 
Good advice, I guess I'm not quite sure what the convention is regarding that. I mean when a lot of your life/best stories to tell have been spent with T, do I just erase her from those or just focus on the parts that I experienced?
 
Good advice, I guess I'm not quite sure what the convention is regarding that. I mean when a lot of your life/best stories to tell have been spent with T, do I just erase her from those or just focus on the parts that I experienced?

I mean it’s totally possible to tell these stories while focusing on how they affected you. The “don’t use we too much” advice, I think, is more important when you’re talking about how those experiences affected you or your opinions about things - so for instance “T and I went to Paris and now I want to go back and see more of France. My favorite part was the food” rather than “We went to France and want to go back, our favorite part was the food”. The former is two whole people having an experience together, the latter is a bit of a Borg-like couple brain?

Although one can overcorrect - this is a vocal pattern I’ve had to work on a lot because Knight and I have been together since we were 16, share (what was) a pretty intense hobby, even worked at the same place for years. So I definitely had to train myself not to just use we for everything I apparently did this so well that at one point Artist and I were talking and I mentioned a particular thing Knight and I had done in the hobby, and apparently I had talked about myself in it so much that Artist didn’t realize Knight was part of that bit too. Ooops!
 
I'm going to take the liberty of giving your people nicknames, to make the situations clearer for our members.

There seems to be some big philosophical discussions going on here. All this discussion of NRE lalas... I don't know, to be honest. I know Trish has some perfect vision of poly, in which Viggo and I will be best buds, and we will all live together as one big happy family. I don't see this happening. I like being in a place where I live with my family, which I love. I don't want to live with, basically, a roommate, who happens to be Trish's other boyfriend.

Have you told her this, clearly?

I don't know how it would work, if she decides she wants to live with Viggo at some point. She's a big believer in relationship equality, whilst I would prefer to be her primary. That's tough to think about, that one day she may want to live with Viggo, instead of me.

In poly, you really don't need to choose. If one or the other, or both partners don't want to live together (as is extremely common) the hinge can go back and forth between the homes, more or less equally.

However, you really need to work out if you're going to be able to do non-hierarchical poly. It's common to want to cling to the primary/secondary model, as newbies, but both members of a couple need to agree on this. Of course, terms can always be renegotiated, as you move from being beginners to intermediate practitioners.

Also, we are trying to keep the poly thing a secret, as we live in a very judgmental society.

That makes things more complicated! Is Trish aware that the poly arrangements need to be kept a secret? Generally it's much easier to live poly in liberal big cities or suburbs. You could lose jobs, family and friends. This needs to be worked out.

I screwed up this week! I got really down, and read through Trish's messages to Viggo. It was stupid, and a massive invasion of their privacy. She found out, and its been hard to deal with. I normally would never do something like that, and I'm really annoyed with myself. I should be better than that. It hurts even more, because it feels like that pushed Trish away, at a time when I need her to be as close as possible. I really hope we can work past it. She thinks we can, but will need some time to rebuild trust.

That's too bad. She can make her phone password protected, so you won't be tempted again, when you're in freak-out mode.

On a more positive note, I took a big step last night and actually went out for a drink with Viggo, just the two of us, to clear the air, and release some elephants in the room. I referred to him as Trish's boyfriend, which is a label that seems really tough to deal with, so I think it was good to use it and release some fear. It was an awkward night at times, but it generally went well, I think.

That wasn't necessary, but it was a nice gesture. Was this the first time you met Viggo?

You guys seemed curious about our background. Trish initiated the poly talk, and I've been very apprehensively moving slowly forward with it.

So, she "dropped the poly bomb," just as dingedheart feared. (That's what happened to him.)

Modern feminism and the fall of the patriarchy has been leading society to focus less on monogamous marriage, where the woman's sexuality is controlled, as the property of one man. It's been a long time coming. It's even in the Bible. Women may only have one male husband, so he can own her and her children. He, however (in the Hebrew Testament) may have as many wives as he can afford and satisfy. It's not fair, of course, and it's not natural. It's a form of enslavement, clearly.

She had a couple of short things with people, where rules were imposed about how far things could go, etc., until maybe a year ago, when it changed to "no limits."

Because you don't, and should not, control her sexuality, and her right to choose how to share it.

I actually experienced a two-week thing at the end of last year. It was nice to see the positives for myself, rather than just coping with it for Trish. I guess I can see that I could be poly. I certainly really liked this other girl.

But I guess for me it feels like "Take it or leave it."

Sure. You can agree to an Open relationship, or leave. That is your human right, as well.

If Trish wanted to be mono, I'd be happy with that. Equally, I can totally understand the theory and motives for poly, and agree with them, somewhat. It's just handling my feelings about Trish seeing other people that feels torturous right now. I'm still reeling from the official bf/gf announcement, and I'm terrified of when they will have sex.

This will be happening soon, and it will be the first time she'll have been with someone else since we got together. I myself have only ever slept with her in my life, so she would've been with more people since we've been together than I've ever been.

It sounds like you could use more sexual experience yourself! :) Is it common to "save yourself for marriage" in your area? Was this a religious family value for you?

I don't know how to tell if you are suited to poly, but I'm really scared that I'm not, and that would mean the end of us.

In other news, I have a date this week. I'm looking forward to it, but I'm also worried that I've only sought someone else out, at this time, as a crutch. I really don't want to go to that date thinking that I need it to go well, just so that I'm not just one of two boyfriends, but an actively engaging poly person in relationships. But that's my worry. I want to see how the chemistry goes with this new person, Olivia (who advertises herself as poly), for it's own sake. But I'm scared that I'll just bring all my recent emotional baggage with me.

You might want to hold off on engaging with others, and hurting them, right now. You could take more time to sort out some of the issues with Trish: her having sex, you having invaded her privacy, etc. You can experience the fun of dating when you're in a fun, happy place, and not a scared, sick-at-heart place. You want to be a good partner to new people, with nice things to offer, not cling to them like a life raft.

I've dated newbies, both male and female, and invariably it went badly and I was hurt in the process. Even people that claim some poly experience can do it badly though. No one seems to do enough prep work. So it's good that you are trying to do the work.

I guess that's all for tonight, as I need to sleep. Thanks for all the advice and help you've offered so far. It's lovely to interact with such a helpful community, whilst traversing a brave new world with no standard map.
 
I didn't see you had chosen names. Just ignore mine.
 
That wasn't necessary, but it was a nice gesture. Was this the first time you met Viggo?
No, Vanadium's around ours a lot anyway, they spend the night together downstairs sometimes but I found myself just avoiding him as much as possible, things seem a bit easier with that following our night out.




. You can agree to an Open relationship, or leave. That is your human right, as well.
No I meant more like, I could engage with multiple partners or I could not, I don't have a preference (yet).
sounds like you could use more sexual experience yourself! :) Is it common to "save yourself for marriage" in your area? Was this a religious family value for you?

Oh we're not married, just Titanium was the first partner I had sex with and haven't with anyone else yet, I have no qualms with it (not religious myself), just haven't had the opportunity yet. Got very close with one girl but we wanted to play it safe and get tested before we did anything, and then unfortunately we broke up before the tests came back.

What you say about dating makes sense, I think I'm going to go tomorrow and try and just put this stuff out of my head, honestly if nothing else it would be nice to make a new friend as we moved just before lockdown and feeling quite lonely around here. Thanks for the advice.
 
Thank you for more info.

SHORT VERSION

I hope you feel better for airing out. I think the only one who can really answer if your heart is in this is YOU. So you might want to take a time out to do your soul searching to figure out what you want from your romances before you bring on another person into the mix (the O lady you have a date with soon). Be super honest with yourself and with T. Start talking PLAIN with T.

LONG VERSION

I know T has some perfect vision of poly, that V and I will be best buds and all live together as one big happy family, I don't see this happening, I like being in a place where I live with my family who I love, and I don't want to live with basically a roommate, who happens to be T's other boyfriend.

Is this just her spouting NRE lala goofy talk? Or is this a real conversation?

Because if she's not spouting goofy stuff, and this is areal conversation? And you don't want to live with other people that are her poly partners? Best you just state it flat out. Just a PLAIN and HONEST "No, thanks. I don't want to live with poly partners. That would be a dealbreaker for me. "

No point in beating around the bush on that.

I don't know how that will work if she decides she wants to live with him at some point, she's a big believer in relationship equality, whilst I would prefer to be known as primary so that's tough to think about that one day she may want to live with him over me. Let alone that we are trying to keep the poly thing secret as we live in a very judgey society for parents.

Which is why I think if you are feeling overwhelmed a lot right now? How about dealing with the things front of you?

And whatever daydream stuff... she can daydream on her own and only bring you "real right now" kind of conversations. It's just not possible to solve ALL the things in one go and you are experiencing a different journey than her.

I screwed up this week, I got really down and read through T's messages, it was stupid and a massive invasion of privacy. She found out and its been hard to deal with, I normally would never do something like that and I'm really annoyed with myself, I should be better than that. It hurts even more because it feels like that pushed her away some at a time when I need her as close as possible. I really hope we can work past it, she thinks we can but will need some time to rebuild trust.

It's good she's willing to work past this and rebuild trust. You seem willing to do it too.

Take step back from this episode and look at how it unfolded.

If she's coming at you too strong? Full of big life changing plans like move in her new BF? How does THAT behavior help foster trust or stability on your side? Rather than seeming like "Good grief! She's gone bananas!"

On your side... are you not able to state what's you need? "I feel scared. This might be fun to you, but to me, it's like I don't even know this side of you. I need closeness with you. Could I have a hug? I need reassurance. Can we talk?" or similar? Rather than go peeking in her phone looking for answers. Now you feel double load. The lonely/scared from before plus this ashamed thing for peeking.

I encourage you both to start talking PLAIN and HONEST with each other. If you are not good at articulating your feelings and your needs? Well, that's going to be an area of personal growth for you then.

Maybe you can start by printing out NVC need inventory and feeling inventory and circle the ones that apply. So you can communicate more clearly what's going on with you.



On a more positive note I took a big step last night and actually went out for a drink with V, just us, to clear the air, and release some elephants in the room. I referred to him as T's boyfriend, which is a label that seems really tough to deal with, so I think it was good to use it and release some fear. It was an awkward night at times but generally went well I think.

If that helps you, I guess fine. But if hanging around V just brings you more stress, know you don't HAVE to be trying to KTP just because T wants it to end up that way in her "perfect vision."

I guess I can see that I could be poly, I certainly really liked this other girl but I guess for me it feels like tale it or leave it, if T wanted to be mono, I'd be happy with that.

I could be wrong in my impression... but you write like you just do whatever T decides so you can still keep being with T. Rather than be honest about what it is YOU really want. Is that true?

What do YOU want to be doing in YOUR relationships? What do YOU prefer? Maybe after trying poly out this last year you find you think poly is fine for other people, but not for you and you just want monogamy. There is nothing wrong with wanting whatever you want.

But if T is supposed to be your partner and you are not talking honestly and plain with her? Then what's going on in this relationship that you can't?

Equally the theory and motives behind poly I can totally understand and agree with somewhat. It's just handling my feeling about her seeing other people that feels torturous right now. I'm still reeling from the official bf/gf announcement, and I'm terrified of when they have sex (which is coming soon, and will be the first time she'd have been with someone else since we got together. I myself have only ever slept with her in my life so she would've been with more people since we've been together than I've ever been). I don't know how to tell if you are suited to poly, but I'm really scared I'm not and that would mean the end of us.

How did you guys prepare to do poly? Have you read poly hell?

Yes. It may mean you are not into poly for you. And if T is? And she wants to do poly now? Then that may mean the end of the romance. But you'd still have to co-parent and hopefully find a way to be exes and friends.

Why the big break up fear? Because you've never had to break up before? Something else? What makes it any different than being together monogamously for a time and then one day on partner decides they don't want to do it any more? And the people break up? Are you able to articulate your fears on this?

In other news I have a date this week, I'm looking forward to it but also worried that I've only sought someone else out at this time as a crutch

Well... Are you? Is it a crutch?

I really don't want to go into that date thinking that I need it to go well so I'm not just one of two boyfriends but an actively engaging poly person in relationships, but that's my worry.

Are you saying you are only dating O so you can "count as poly?" somehow?

Do you know it's possible for people to be end points in a V and not date? Like they are monoamorous (want 1 sweetie) and are relationship shape flexible. They can do closed monogamy or be an end point in a V, N, or other poly shape.

You may want to do some soul searching and before this goes deeper. Figure out who YOU are. Then decide if you are doing things that add to your well being or take away from it.
  • Monoamorous (desire for 1 sweetie) and monogamous (wants only those 2 people in a 1:1 relationship)
  • monogamoous (desire for 1 sweetie) and relationship shape flexible (can happily be in a monogamous thing, a poly thing, etc)
  • polyamorous (desire 1 or more sweeties) and relationship shape flexible (can happily be in a monogamous thing, a poly thing, etc)
  • polyamorous (desire 1 or more sweeties) and poly relationships (of whatever poly model, V, N, etc)
The more you write, the more concerned I become that you are just floating along into this to stick with T rather than doing it from a joyful place because this is what YOU want to be doing in YOUR romances. Maybe even bending yourself into pretzels to do it.

I want to see how chemistry goes with this new person, O, (who advertises herself as poly) for it's own sake but scared I'll just bring all my recent emotional baggage with me.

Again, I encourage you to be HONEST. ARE you bringing a bunch of emotional baggage on the date with O? If you are not healthy right now, and not sure you even want to be doing this? What's the point of dating at this time? Just to bring in more people to be damage collateral? Use O for a bandaid or free therapist?

Like if you are not interested in getting to know O for O? Don't waste your time or O's time. Could cancel the date and apologize -- that you thought you were ready but aren't.

I guess that's all for tonight as need to sleep, thanks for all the advice/help offered so far. It's lovely to interact with such a helpful community whilst traversing a brave new world with no standard map.

I think your regular map will do. You stick to the things you really want in relationship. You answer to the things you value and when you cannot have the whole set, you answer to your highest values then. You do not try to bend yourself into pretzels and you only consent to do things from a joyful "yes" kinda place.

Are you doing that here? You may want to do your soul searching and figure out what you want from your romantic relationships. Then see if the ones with T, O, and whoever else actually meet your personal standards or not.

Galagirl
 
Galagirl, that's written really well and gives me a lot to consider. What you say worries me too, and I don't know a lot of the answers to what you ask, I'm not even sure how I could produce an answer. I don't think everything in a relationship is from a joyful place, in my experience they strengthen because you work through hard and painful stuff, but I just don't know how to tell when the hard and painful stuff is just too much, and is not just something to work through but something that you can never be comfortable with. I have changed dramatically in our relationship, so why not a bit more? If it hurts to change then it hurts but when is the hurt too much? I don't want to break up with T over this because whilst it may hurt to share her, I feel it would hurt way more to not have her at all. All the life we have shared and who we have become together makes us click in so many ways, without her I'd be lost and I don't see the benefit in losing that unless it would make me happier. I feel it wouldn't.

Of course that doesn't mean I have to do everything her way, and I'm starting to think I don't want KTP. I think it's useful to have some communication with V, but seeing them together doesn't bring any benefit in my mind. Like earlier I walked into the lounge and T was straddling V (clothes on), I bolted out of the room asap, did not want to see that. We have kids, and at the moment I'm working lots (from home usually) so T is the main caregiver, so has to be with the kids a lot. This means that if she wants to see V lots then it often must be with kids, hence why he's coming round to our house. I don't see a solution to not being around him in this situation.
 
Sorry if that doesn't make too much sense, its middle of night with me and I should be sleeping, having problems with that recently because of this stuff, and that doesn't help either
 
Try and get some sleep.

I don't think everything in a relationship is from a joyful place, in my experience they strengthen because you work through hard and painful stuff, but I just don't know how to tell when the hard and painful stuff is just too much, and is not just something to work through but something that you can never be comfortable with. I have changed dramatically in our relationship, so why not a bit more? If it hurts to change then it hurts but when is the hurt too much? I don't want to break up with T over this because whilst it may hurt to share her, I feel it would hurt way more to not have her at all. All the life we have shared and who we have become together makes us click in so many ways, without her I'd be lost and I don't see the benefit in losing that unless it would make me happier. I feel it wouldn't.

You seem to come at relationships expecting them to bring you pain. I don't. I expect my relationships to bring me joy.

Hard things in life do happen. I'm not thrilled watching my father slowly move along the Alzheimer path. I was not thrilled when my MIL passed away and my spouse went into a funk for several months in his grief. But usually my relationship with spouse is a source of stability and joy for me, like a well to draw from so I can face the difficult things in life a little better.

It is not a source of difficulties. To me? If my relationship with spouse is one of the things I have to keep "working through" and it's not some temporary glitch but like constantly having to "work on things" or me having to change and adapt like bending into pretzels to keep it going? I'm not gonna. I'm going to call it a relationship that is circling the drain, and no longer meant to be. Best to let it go.

I just don't know how to tell when the hard and painful stuff is just too much

YOU decide where you draw the line and what you personal boundaries and personal limits are.

I can love someone a whole lot, but I have to love me too. Not like selfish, but like self-care. So if something becomes too much? I'm gonna say so. "I love you a whole lot. But not even for you will I do stuff or continue in stuff that hurts me. I have to love me too."

Are you able to do that?

Of course that doesn't mean I have to do everything her way, and I'm starting to think I don't want KTP. I think it's useful to have some communication with V, but seeing them together doesn't bring any benefit in my mind.

Not a definitive list, but a list of some open models.

General communication for calendar, safer sex practices/labs -- figure out what communication is essential and what is not.

Like earlier I walked into the lounge and T was straddling V (clothes on), I bolted out of the room asap, did not want to see that. We have kids, and at the moment I'm working lots (from home usually) so T is the main caregiver, so has to be with the kids a lot. This means that if she wants to see V lots then it often must be with kids, hence why he's coming round to our house. I don't see a solution to not being around him in this situation.

To me the solution is you bringing it up to her. "I did not enjoy walking in on that the other day. Could you please be willing to not make out with V in the living room and common areas when me or the kids are home and could just walk in on that? Could you please make out in the bedroom or bathroom where the door can be closed instead? "

What are you all gonna do if a kid sees that, and accidentally outs you all as poly to grandma? Then what?

You and T could also figure out a schedule.
  • The days you are in charge of kids and she can either be home doing her own thing, entertain friends/partners in the home, go out
  • The days she is in charge of kids and you can either be home doing your own thing, entertain friends/partners in the home, go out
  • The time you spend with each other as a couple
  • The time you spend time together as a family
There is nothing especially "poly" about figuring out how to be decent roomies with the people you share a house with and how to share the spaces.

If you were all roomies sharing a house... Would you all be humping people all over the house common areas like kitchen and living room/lounge? Or would you have your dates over, and try to keep any making out/sharing sex to your respective bedrooms with closed doors?

Galagirl
 
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