Deep wounds and healing issues

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rosephase

New member
My relationship structure just changed shape. I had been living in a triad for six years, we started calling ourselves a triad about a year before that when my girlfriend (let’s call her Day) moved for grad school. Day had been dating my other partner (let’s call him Evening) for about two years before setting off for grad school. Evening and I had been together for a year when he started dating Day. Day was a close friend and artist partner so when she asked that we become a triad and try to live together once she was done with her masters I thought it was a scary but great idea. I am sexually straight but I loved Day and I thought the three of us could work beautifully together.

We lived together for six years in a really expensive city while Day finished her PhD and I finished my MFA. Evening picked up his life and moved with us but struggled to find work in the new city.

Things started heading south before Day finished her year away. She hid a couple of sexual and romantic relationships. When she came back to move with us Day and Evening were already fighting. The fights seems explosive and scary to me. I tended to blame them both equally for stuff being so difficult. I got annoyed at Evening because I could see how he could make it emotionally easier on Day but he wouldn’t. I was often in-between them. I felt like an emotional referee and was often used as a translator. When Day was getting angry at everything Evening was saying I would sit next to them and re-explain what Evening was saying in a way Day could hear better. This went on for a few years… Day’s anger got bigger and bigger. She felt controlled. And like the relationship wasn’t working out the way she wanted it to. She often said she was ashamed of how we were living and that we were lying to people because they all thought that she and I were in a sexual relationship but we weren’t. (this never bothered me, I didn’t mind if people made assumptions about our sex life… if I was close friends I would explain but their assumptions didn’t make my relationship with her feel invalided)

Day would get into major rages. She would throw things, drive recklessly, say and do hurtful things on purpose and threaten to hurt herself or commit suicide. She could go to her room and scream. She would bang her head against walls. It was terrifying. For awhile Evening and I would jump in fear when we thought we heard the front door opening. While this was going on Evening had stopped fighting and just retreated into himself. He would be so paralyzed by sadness that he couldn’t function. He couldn’t look for work and he rarely got out of the house. During this time Day would travel for school and hook up with people. We had learned through hard knocks that Day wouldn’t tolerate relationship rules or boundaries. The way Evening and my relationship worked was that we would tell each other when we were interested in someone. We would try to let each other know when we thought it would turn sexual and that we would use protection until otherwise stated. These rules were to much for Day and so we dropped them… if hurt was shown about her choices she would blow up, tell us our relationship was fake and that she was being used.

About two years in we started seeing a therapist. With his help things got better. But it felt like we spent most of our time addressing Day’s hurt. Evening and I got a lot better at listening to and defusing Day’s anger. And Day put a lot of work into not taking out her overwhelming emotions on us. Things got a lot better but they never got good. Up until two months before she left she was still having explosive outbursts and suicide threats. They happened a lot less frequently but they still happened. She finished her degree and got a great job in a new city, we were not invited to come with her and we didn’t want to go.

So that’s all back story.

So yeah… Day left about four months ago. We had planned to stay together. Or rather they had planned to stay together. I was done. Had been of a year. I had come to the term abuse and I was waiting for Day to leave. I still showed up for therapy. I still listened and tried to be giving but I was counting the days. Day and Evening wanted to talk about staying together in this new shape.

Once Day left Evening was finally able to see her treatment as abuse. He has since asked for little contact from her as he heals and figure out what he wants. I am working on a project with her but other than work stuff I have asked for the same. She has been rational, understanding and supportive. (Which for some reason makes us both angry… like where the fuck was this response for years?!?!) She says the last thing she wants to do is hurt us more.

So now the issue. I am angry. I rarely expressed anger during our relationship. I found that bring my feelings into the room often made things worse. I was able to express some of it in therapy but mostly I have put my feelings aside to try and make the relationship work. I’m angry at Day but I’m also really angry at Evening. And I’m angry at myself for staying so long in such dysfunctional relationship. I’m angry at Evening for disappearing emotionally for years… even though that was now years ago.

Evening wants to fix our relationship. He wants sexual and romantic intimacy. I have been making time to spend with him (we live together as well) we have been talking a lot and processing a lot. He is just starting to realize what a negative impact Day had on him. And while I thought I saw it clearly I am finding that I didn’t know how deeply in crushed his since of self worth. I find that I’m constantly irritated at him. I can mostly put this aside and it fades when we spend quality time together. He wants to start dating (something that wasn’t on the table with Day… while she slept with whoever she wanted she was extremely controlling of Evening) and I want him to start dating. I have two other partners that have help support me through this rough stuff.

Argh… sorry this is getting so long….

But this is the actual issue:

All of a sudden Evening is having feelings (anger? Hurt? Fear?) at me about things that seems acceptable to him before Day left. Things around my other partners. Stuff that I didn’t think I had to inform him of (like when we are having sex and where we are having sex) all of a sudden are upsetting him.

I understand that we are both healing. But I feel so frustrated by this development. And the fact that I’m holding all this anger about the last six years doesn’t help. I don’t mean to be upset at him. I want to figure out what our relationship is like without Day in it. I want to fix our sexual intimacy and I think we have the skills to do that… but it’s going to take time… and I don’t think I can handle him putting limitations of my other relationships….

And that’s another thing. They aren’t limitations or clear boundaries. He just needs me to hold space for his feelings. He wants me to hear his feelings but he isn’t asking for anything. It ends up with me feeling like I’m walking on egg shells again. I feel like I’ve spent the last six years taking far to much responsibility for other people’s feelings and I feel like he is asking me to do that more. He tells me I’m not doing anything wrong. He won’t just ask for what he needs and when I ask him to be clear he says that that puts all the pressure on him to fix the situation. And he doesn’t want rules but he wants me to be considerate of his feelings… and that feels like a trap to me. I have to constantly be worried about his reaction (he’s not mean or explosive like Day he just gets down and/or frustrated and I find his feelings hard to be around because they affect me a lot, I’m scared to death of him slipping into another deep depression… it was like he was just gone for years) but I don’t have any guidelines to lean on. But every time I see my other partner he gets upset. I try to make times and places to talk about it… but we have so much to talk through.

I just feel stuck. I don’t know what direction to move in. I am hurt and angry and I know we need time. I love him but I’m also deeply (and not rationally) angry at him. Intellectually I know he isn’t way we were in a abusive relationship for so long… we are all equal players in that. But I still have all this anger. At myself, at Day and at Evening. And when Evening starts picking at the relationships that have held me together during all this darkness I just want to run away from him… I’m not. But I want to.

What do I do? Where do I even start? How do I make this less painful on Evening? How do I let go of all this unaddressed anger?
 
Hi rosephase,

Are you and Evening still seeing a therapist? I would recommend that.

Sorry Day treated you so badly. It sounds like you and Evening were both damaged by that treatment.

Sympathetically,
Kevin T.
 
Our therapist retired a few years ago. Evening has a personal therapist and we've spoken about seeing someone to help with healing our sex life. Therapy was very helpful but super draining. I should probably start looking for someone for both of us but it's hard to want. while therapy helped tremendously it felt like torture to me often. Big picture it helped but small picture it left me hurt and anxious and would screw with my day. That probably will feel different without Day there but it's scary.
 
I am sorry you struggle. Let me repeat back what I understand in my own words so I know I got it right. You correct time if I get anything wrong, ok? Perhaps it helps to see the info arranged in a different way.

BACKGROUND
  • You and Evening used to be in a triad with Day.
  • Day was erratic and abusive.
  • You both broke up with Day and she is out of the picture. (Except you still talk to her for a work project. The plan when the work project is done is what? To stop talking to her?)
  • You and Evening are now healing from abuse aftermath.
  • You live together.

WANT

You both want to date each other.

Evening wants to fix the (you + Evening) relationship.
  • Evening thinks the relationship will be a romantic one.
  • Evening wants sexual and romantic intimacy with you.

You want to figure out what "our relationship is like without Day in it."
You think the new relationship with Evening will be...
  • Roomies?
  • Friends?
  • Exes?
  • A romantic relationship?
  • A combo of the above?

AGREEMENTS

At this time, you both do not agree on how to practice this "new version" of dating other.

  • Evening wants new agreements. He wants to know sex details like when and where you share sex with your other partners. You do not agree to this.

  • You prefer to stick with previous agreements: "We would try to let each other know when we thought it would turn sexual and that we would use protection until otherwise stated." He does/does not agree to this.

WHEN

  • You both want to start this new relationship with each other right now. This is the best time because(....why? Just because Day is gone? That is the only criteria?)

ABILITY

Both of you are/are not fit and healthy people at this time.

You can / cannot offer yourself to the other one as a healthy dating partner without too many hang ups or problems.

  • Evening gets weird and shuts down when you go out with your other partners.
  • He will not communicate clearly and assert himself or state his needs. He wants you to mind reader him.

  • You are full of anger you have not processed yet.
  • You cannot bear it when he "shuts down" and disappears emotionally.
  • You get irritated with him often and dislike walking on egg shells.


SUGGESTION

If I summarized above more or less right? To me? That sounds like you are both willing but NOT YET ACTUALLY ABLE to date each other in a healthy way.

  • Is he offering himself as a healthy dating partner at this time? Nope.
  • Are you offering yourself as a healthy dating partner? Nope.

So trying to start a new romantic relationship with each other at this point in time may be jumping the gun. You guys could shelve the idea for a later time and use the present time to work on yourselves and heal from abuse first.

I think you could be friends for a while. Maybe even rethink the roomie bit if it helps being friends better.

He just needs me to hold space for his feelings. He wants me to hear his feelings but he isn’t asking for anything. It ends up with me feeling like I’m walking on egg shells again. I feel like I’ve spent the last six years taking far to much responsibility for other people’s feelings and I feel like he is asking me to do that more.

He tells me I’m not doing anything wrong. He won’t just ask for what he needs and when I ask him to be clear he says that that puts all the pressure on him to fix the situation. And he doesn’t want rules but he wants me to be considerate of his feelings… and that feels like a trap to me.

I have to constantly be worried about his reaction (he’s not mean or explosive like Day he just gets down and/or frustrated and I find his feelings hard to be around because they affect me a lot, I’m scared to death of him slipping into another deep depression… it was like he was just gone for years) but I don’t have any guidelines to lean on. But every time I see my other partner he gets upset. I try to make times and places to talk about it… but we have so much to talk through.
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All this? Sounds like "too much togetherness" at a particularly rough time for each. If you are burned out from Day? And Evening's seeking you to help prop him up because you are handy and live there? That's not him seeking to stand on his own feet. And that drags you down further when you are already bone dry.

Perhaps that pressure can be relieved by NOT sharing space at this time. Spend time together, sleepover if you want. But each have your OWN space.

Then he HAS to figure out another way to cope other than asking you to prop him up because you are not as "handy."

And you can be free of being drained and you HAVE to focus on your own healing business first rather than being tempted to caretake other people. You say you are tired of taking emotional responsibility for others -- so you could remove the temptation to if this an old habit you are now trying to break.

Don't move in with one of your other partners. Move into space of your own, and a "neutral" roomie if you need one to share costs.

I also think you could NOT DATE each other at this time. Could set an appointment a year out from now to talk about putting that back on the table and figure out at THAT point in time if you still want to date each other and are more able to do so from a healthy place.

In the meanwhile? Have some room to breathe free of all the Day abuse. Which includes "Day aftermath" if you cannot bear to be witnessing each other's healing process up close because it triggers you and holds you back in your own healing process.

Spend this next year healing yourselves as individuals.

  • You work on processing you anger with your therapist and letting all that stuff go.
  • He works on his depression and stuff with his therapist and work on communicating better.

Become fit and healthy people first. You seem to recognize it takes time to heal from abuse. Don't skimp on the healing time.

At this time what do you share?

  • Willing? Yes.
  • Able? Nope. Not yet.
    • Healed from Day abuse? Nope. You have lot of anger to sort and he has depression/shutting down things. (Possibly anger turned inward rather than outward)
    • Agree on how to practice this new model together? Nope.
    • Best time to start a new thing together? Nope.

If you want this to work out? I suggest REST first. This is a long term project. You cannot approach it all go-go-go and risk even more burn out. You don't have so much to spare that you can risk that. After some rest, sort out separate therapists first. Your pace of healing may be different than Evening's pace. It is not a "race" to see who heals fastest. But you each need to be properly supported and asking each other to be that support is inappropriate because you are both in the healing zone.

So focus on healing selves, rather than helping others. You cannot help other people from an empty gas tank. Fill your gas tank first. It is not being selfish. It is NECESSARY.

Trying to date again right now seems premature. It would be ADDING to the stresses and the loads to process rather than lightening the stresses and loads. Why do this to yourselves? :(

Galagirl
 
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Mobil ATLANTA

Thank you Galagirl for your thoughtful response. That is hard to hear. To answer your questions in a rambly out of order kind of way:

I honestly don’t know what I’m going to do about being in contact with Day after our project is over. I think I’m going to need and want more space. At least a year. I don’t know how that will play out for Evening, although he was upset when I told him that I couldn’t be in a relationship with him if he was going to be in an abusive relationship.

I would love to be partnered with Evening into the future, both romantically and sexually. I hope for a future where we can have easier connection. He is a kind loving and hard working individual. I think we have a lot of hard won communication skills… meaning we are good at trying to keep understanding each other and ourselves, and we can manage to do it with love and respect.

• You both want to start this new relationship with each other right now. This is the best time because(....why? Just because Day is gone? That is the only criteria?)

That is such a good question. I guess it hadn’t occurred to me that this was starting a new relationship. Evening and I have been together for 11 years. 9 of those years have been with Day in one way or another and the last 7 have been a triad.

So I think the reason we want it now is because we’ve been waiting for a chance to be stable again… or at least I was. For the first time since we moved here things are working Evening is doing a job he is good at and he enjoys. We are both making a living in a city that we love doing things that feel worthwhile. It feels like we should be able to figure it out. We made it through so much garbage. We were constantly broke and I was overworked and Day was losing her mind doing her PhD and Evening was crushed with depression and now? Everything is working… other than us… and that just sucks.

And I find the answer of not being able to be together so disappointing but true feeling. We can’t figure out how to support each other. We’ve got to much tangled shit.

As for dating… well he seems excited to try and date. And it had been off the table for so long and it’s pro-social to date… for awhile he couldn’t really handle being around people or have anything close to enough self esteem to understand if anyone liked him. The fact that he WANTS to is exciting to me and a sign of him healing. And I want him to date so he has other systems of support, esteem and understanding. I don’t have the bandwidth to give him what he needs and he tells me when I come up sort and I find it frustrating. But I can be their and listen a lot… just not with everything or as often as he seems to want/need it at the moment. I also want to feel less sexually pressured. I don’t think our sex life is going to heal when I feel like he is resentful every time I have sex with another partner. I think (rightly or wrongly) that if he had another sexual partner that we could look at our sex life with less pressing.
 
Glad it helped some. FWIW? You seem pretty clear to me.

  • Sounds like when the project is over, you want at least a year break from dealing with Day. Maybe even a permanent break.
  • Sounds like you do not want to be part of Evening's dating network if that network comes to include Day again.
    • If he chooses to be in an abusive relationship again? That is his business.
    • You can choose not to be in a relationship with him if he's doing damaging things like that. Who you choose to relate with is your business.
  • You could be open to a relationship with Evening in the future if Day is not in his network. Romantically and sexually.

Right now?
  • You want him to date other people, and develop other systems of support, esteem and understanding.
  • You don’t have the bandwidth to give him what he needs. You sound worn out and kinda fried. You don't want to hear him complain that you "come up short." Sounds easier for both to accept that you don't have the spoons right now and let it go for now.
  • You also don't want to be pressured sexually.

To me it sounds like (not dating him right now) could solve a lot of that for you. But maybe you hadn't considered that yet til now.

And I find the answer of not being able to be together so disappointing but true feeling. We can’t figure out how to support each other. We’ve got to much tangled shit.
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I know it is a bummer. But sometimes in order to try to come together in the future, you have to be willing to let go a bit in the short term so both people can heal, grow, and stand on their own.


That is such a good question. I guess it hadn’t occurred to me that this was starting a new relationship. Evening and I have been together for 11 years. 9 of those years have been with Day in one way or another and the last 7 have been a triad.
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I guess it did not occur to you that each and every time over the 11 years, it was a new relationship dynamic. Just with the same players.

My husband and I have been married for decades. I've been the hinge in a V before. DH (then BF) was one of the V arms. We will never get back "days before the V." That ship sailed. We will NEVER get back "dating couple." Because that had to end so "married couple" could begin.
We will also never get back "child free couple." Because we had kids and even though they grow up? "Empty nest couple with adult children" is not the same thing as "child free couple with no kids at all." Perimenopause is making me a crazy person. We will not get back "couple in our 20's without hormone haywire crap." That ship long sailed too.

Each time, we have to adjust to these new Life changes and figure out how to cope in a new relationship dynamic with each other. It's a new way that we have to relate to each other. The old way won't work here. Have to forge a new path.

You guys have changed since the Day abuse. Deeply. You can never get back to who you were "Before Day abuse" time. You are THESE people now, in this NEW time.

And it may very well mean taking a break from dating each other. Be friends. You could take time out to heal from the abuse, and enjoy what IS going well rather than trying to keep flying a kite that won't fly right now and risk damaging it further. Like hearing the clunking in the engine and not taking it for repairs but driving the car anyway. Making the damage even worse.

You guys could think about taking time to make repairs on your own selves first before trying to fly together again.

Talk it out. If you are good at trying to keep understanding each other and yourselves, and can manage to do it with love and respect.... this is a good time to draw on those skills.

And I find the answer of not being able to be together so disappointing but true feeling. We can’t figure out how to support each other. We’ve got to much tangled shit.
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So you cannot be together well right now. That doesn't have to mean you cannot be together again later.

I know this is not easy at all. Abuse tends to have "ripple effects" and you are still figuring out just how far out the "ripples" go.

Hang in there.

Galagirl
 
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Thank you so much for your insight GalaGirl I feel like I should be paying you.

Evening and I sat down and talked today. It went really well. He told me if I wanted or needed to leave that we wouldn’t fight me. Which I found incredibly reassuring… to feel like whatever I need, I am safe.

Ha. Writing that reminds me just how unsafe I had been feeling for years. How I’ve built up this constant feeling of unsafe.

Talking made me feel less stuck. We see that we are in an emotional tangle. I am low on emotional resources and he is slowly building his up after being utterly depleted. I think if we can be kind and slow that we can work through this. We talked through some of his hurt around intimacy and I feel safe that we are still on the same page about love, non-monogamy and relationship structure… even if it’s harder on him right now. And I don’t think I had fully realized my fears around that… his sudden issues around another partner was deeply distressing to me.

I think we are both still in fucked up mind sets. I am actively scared of his feelings and I don’t have to be. I was terrified of Day’s feelings and would do anything to keep her feeling okay (not that it worked) and resenting it all the while… not knowing I was doing that… just… being a person is hard. He is in a hard place, but it’s actually better than he’s been in years. I am just scared and when I see signs of depression I get –freaked the fuck out- and that is just past fear. He isn’t their and isn’t about to slip back there. Even while talking about breaking up he is present and connected.

So okay. For once in our life we have enough money to pay rent AND bills AND be able to eat… And I have some money and could probably start therapy. Evening already has a personal therapist. Should I look for a couples councilor or a personal therapist? I don’t think we can swing both.

I can’t express enough how helpful this is. I spend a lot of time of relationship type forums… I’m a writer (not that you can tell from all the gramer errors and mis-spellings but I’m a playwright so I can get away with it) and I’m fascinated by how people express their relationships. The contours of the way our culture shapes our deepest selves and most intimate relationships. And you are amazing. You spell things out so clearly. You help people understand what they are feeling, saying and thinking… which is oddly hard… stupidly hard, when you are on the inside of it.
 
Re:
"Should I look for a couples counselor or a personal therapist? I don't think we can swing both."
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This is something of a wild guess, but I am thinking start with a personal therapist. Switch to a couples counselor later on.
 
Glad it helped you some. Sometimes other perspectives can help.

I am going to guess individual therapist first. Goes with that whole idea of putting your own oxygen mask on first before assisting others.

I am glad you could talk and feel safer.

IME? The surprising thing about coming together to realistically discuss if a separation or break up is in order? It creates connection. I notice that people who can talk about it and not wig out, usually end up having the skills to either break up with some grace (which is a relief because in the midst of sadness, who wants bonus drama and burned bridges?) or they manage to work something out and get through the rough patch and come out the other end with a greater understanding of each other.

If you spent all your time walking on eggshells around Day, trying to "keep her in a good mood" to avoid abuse explosions rained at your head? You may find some of the abuse "ripple effect" leaking over on to your relationship with Evening. You might walk on eggshells around him from a self protection habit which is understandable. But it might not be necessary to be THAT on guard. Because Evening is NOT Day. Sometimes someone can just be upset and express that WITHOUT blaming you or abusing you or whatever Day used to do.

Again, I am glad you feel safer now that you guys talked some.

I hope you continue to feel safer as you both sort through all this stuff one thing at a time and see how far the ripple effects actually go. Maybe you can take comfort in that during that process -- he is NOT Day and he is NOT going to wig out at you or abuse you.

I hope you guys can sort out what to do about your situation so both of you can heal. And I hope in the end you can heal and heal toward each other.

GL!
Galagirl
 
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