hellokitty
New member
Agreed. Thank you. I'm glad to know I'm not crazy.
Differences in what people need in relationships
- Thread starter hellokitty
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IndieSolo
Active member
This is unacceptable. Only you, and you alone, have a right to control what you do with your body.
I am sure I said the same thing to you last year!
Furthermore, it is absolutely ridiculous and demeaning for her to think she can insist on being involved with anyone else you want to be with. That person has a choice, too! Why should she dictate not only your sex life, but the sex life of whoever you get involved with, as well? Who does she think she is? Do not accept her terms. Is she a girlfriend or the boss of you? Come on now, really!
I don't see how you can "LOL" about it. This is some serious shit. She has issues and wants to control you!
That was my first thought upon reading this-- she is all about her happiness, not yours. You are being manipulated.
Why second-guess yourself? You are seeing the obvious red flags, but putting blinders on and telling yourself that because you love her and have some good times with her, you should put up with her nonsense. Love is not enough for a relationship to be healthy and satisfying! Sometimes the most loving thing we can do, for ourselves and others, is to let someone go. There has to be respect, too. I don't see much respect for who you are coming from her.
If I were you, I'd run without looking back!
Hi hellokitty,
I think you'll find that opinions will vary here as to how long you should give your girlfriend (to ease off on the rules) before cutting the ties. Some will say don't ever do it (since polyamory is the only fly in the ointment -- is it really such a little thing?); some will say give her a year? (based on that being the longest amount of time you can stand to wait); some will say don't give her any time, cut the ties now. You have to take some responsibility for your own course in life, and not depend too much on others to have a unanimous consensus about what you should do. We can't read your mind. We don't know how much of a toll this poly disagreement is taking on you. Maybe it's only a minor annoyance and venting about it sometimes suffices to let you smile the rest of the while.
I'll tentatively vote for giving it a year, but I doubt you'll find that vote to be satisfactory, especially since others are saying zero is the right amount of time. You have your self-respect to think of. Are you respecting yourself by allowing your girlfriend to control your love life? This is a question that you alone can, and must, answer.
An alternative approach would be to only talk about the positives that you enjoy in your relationship with your girlfriend. Perhaps doing so would make the poly thing seem like less of a big deal. Sort of a fake-it-til-you-make-it type of a thing. What do you need in order to be happy? is the key question here. If you can't be happy, then everyone involved isn't happy by definition since that includes you. Is it just a bad attitude? Would talking more about the positives help you to forget about the negatives? again a question to which only you could know the right answer.
I've spent well over five years participating a lot on various poly forums, and have seen everything from relationship anarchists to people who find out they can't do poly (or any other kind of non-monogamy) at all. A one-size-fits-all answer doesn't exist when it comes to how many rules one can and should tolerate in one's life. I myself live in a poly-fi unit and as such there are many rules. I have found (over time) that the rules suit me well enough. But someone else in my position might find the rules to be quite suffocating.
So -- are you suffocating, or just twitching a little over the rules? If you're just twitching, then I'd stick to venting now and then and give your girlfriend as much time as she needs. If you're suffocating, then I'd get out now.
I'm assuming you're somewhere in between those two extremes, which is why I suggest giving your girlfriend a finite length of time (I say a year because you felt you couldn't take it for more than that), and if the rules are as tight as ever by then, then you'll have your answer. But all the advice in the world isn't going to supply you with the perfect answer that meets your every need. No answer is perfect in a situation like this. At some point you're likely to have to choose between your girlfriend and your freedom. Which will it be?
But, hopefully she'll come around soon and you won't have to worry about that. We can, of course, hold out for that hope indefinitely ...
Maybe with more information I'll have a better idea of what to suggest? For now I'm just going by what is presented.
Regards,
Kevin T.
I think you'll find that opinions will vary here as to how long you should give your girlfriend (to ease off on the rules) before cutting the ties. Some will say don't ever do it (since polyamory is the only fly in the ointment -- is it really such a little thing?); some will say give her a year? (based on that being the longest amount of time you can stand to wait); some will say don't give her any time, cut the ties now. You have to take some responsibility for your own course in life, and not depend too much on others to have a unanimous consensus about what you should do. We can't read your mind. We don't know how much of a toll this poly disagreement is taking on you. Maybe it's only a minor annoyance and venting about it sometimes suffices to let you smile the rest of the while.
I'll tentatively vote for giving it a year, but I doubt you'll find that vote to be satisfactory, especially since others are saying zero is the right amount of time. You have your self-respect to think of. Are you respecting yourself by allowing your girlfriend to control your love life? This is a question that you alone can, and must, answer.
An alternative approach would be to only talk about the positives that you enjoy in your relationship with your girlfriend. Perhaps doing so would make the poly thing seem like less of a big deal. Sort of a fake-it-til-you-make-it type of a thing. What do you need in order to be happy? is the key question here. If you can't be happy, then everyone involved isn't happy by definition since that includes you. Is it just a bad attitude? Would talking more about the positives help you to forget about the negatives? again a question to which only you could know the right answer.
I've spent well over five years participating a lot on various poly forums, and have seen everything from relationship anarchists to people who find out they can't do poly (or any other kind of non-monogamy) at all. A one-size-fits-all answer doesn't exist when it comes to how many rules one can and should tolerate in one's life. I myself live in a poly-fi unit and as such there are many rules. I have found (over time) that the rules suit me well enough. But someone else in my position might find the rules to be quite suffocating.
So -- are you suffocating, or just twitching a little over the rules? If you're just twitching, then I'd stick to venting now and then and give your girlfriend as much time as she needs. If you're suffocating, then I'd get out now.
I'm assuming you're somewhere in between those two extremes, which is why I suggest giving your girlfriend a finite length of time (I say a year because you felt you couldn't take it for more than that), and if the rules are as tight as ever by then, then you'll have your answer. But all the advice in the world isn't going to supply you with the perfect answer that meets your every need. No answer is perfect in a situation like this. At some point you're likely to have to choose between your girlfriend and your freedom. Which will it be?
But, hopefully she'll come around soon and you won't have to worry about that. We can, of course, hold out for that hope indefinitely ...
Maybe with more information I'll have a better idea of what to suggest? For now I'm just going by what is presented.
Regards,
Kevin T.
This is what Aimee proposes at this time:
It is less than clear.
Did you agree to uphold this already? Or are you only considering her proposal at this point in time, and considering it is wigging you out? That part isn't clear to me, either.
Play ball. Actually ask for the details you need to feel secure.
If you need more details from her for YOU to know/be reassured she isn't foot dragging or stringing you along, could you ASK for details.
Deal with whatever you feel about the answer after you HAVE the answer, rather than "pre-feeling/what-iffing" stuff. That's a good way to make yourself nuts. Stop doing that.
Dragging it out is not serving either of you. Play ball or don't play ball. But move it forward.
Lay out your thoughts and get some feedback.
You have a bf and you have a gf. You seem to want to date more people.
Jules seems fine with it. How did you tell him that is different than how you tell Aimee?
It seems very simple, to me. Hard to feel, but pretty straight-up to ask.
- She accepts me having sex with Jules.
- She says no interactions with other guys without her being involved
It is less than clear.
- For HOW LONG is this next time frame where those points are the guiding boundaries? Maybe you are okay with this if it is "For the next month," maybe you are not okay with it if it is for the next decade.
- "Involve" her in WHAT WAY in the process? Like threesomes only, with her there? Or you give her the heads-up before you proceed to date a person? Or you date them, but give her a heads-up and lab results before it goes to sex? Some of that you may find reasonable, and some you may not.
Did you agree to uphold this already? Or are you only considering her proposal at this point in time, and considering it is wigging you out? That part isn't clear to me, either.
Play ball. Actually ask for the details you need to feel secure.
- How is you asking for more information hurting anyone? Who does it hurt?
- Who is uncomfortable if you ask for more information? You? Her? Are you experiencing great comfort NOW when you do NOT ask?
- What are you afraid of hearing? How does this prevent you from asking for the info you need to feel reassured?
If you need more details from her for YOU to know/be reassured she isn't foot dragging or stringing you along, could you ASK for details.
Deal with whatever you feel about the answer after you HAVE the answer, rather than "pre-feeling/what-iffing" stuff. That's a good way to make yourself nuts. Stop doing that.
- Relate, negotiate, communicate, and get what you need. Then you can move on to the next thing.
- Or don't relate. Call it a day, no matter how disappointing. Then you can move on to the next thing.
Dragging it out is not serving either of you. Play ball or don't play ball. But move it forward.
Lay out your thoughts and get some feedback.
- What do you MEAN you don't know what you are doing?
- What do you need validated?
- What do you need clarified?
You have a bf and you have a gf. You seem to want to date more people.
Jules seems fine with it. How did you tell him that is different than how you tell Aimee?
It seems very simple, to me. Hard to feel, but pretty straight-up to ask.
"Aimee, I have a bf (Jules) and I have a gf (you). At this time, I would like to date other people as well, and still maintain the concurrent relationships with you and Jules.
What needs do I need to meet for you in order for you to be willing/able to participate in that sort of arrangement? Could you be up for that? Or just not up for it, at all, ever? Where do you stand so that I can know?"
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hellokitty
New member
I told her how I feel, how important my autonomy is and having control over my experiences with others. She said she knows. She wants me to have that, but she isn't comfortable with it, and can't/won't promise she ever will be. She said, "I know you're going to do what you want, but it doesn't mean I agree or support it. I can't control you, all I can control is how I feel about things and I don't think I'll know until it happens."
I told her leaving it all open-ended without resolution scares me. I don't want it to end up like the last agreement, dragging on forever. She said she just doesn't want to fight about it anymore, that it hurts most to fight, that she knows I'm going to do what I'm going to do, but she can't predict how she'll feel or react, and doesn't want to make any agreements on it, either.
We kinda sat in silence for a while, both just stumped on what to do. I said I'm afraid of having this same convo over and over. I know how I feel and it's not going to change. Whether we deal with it today, in a month, 6 months, or a year, I know that's the kind of relationship I want (more open, more free) and she doesn't know if she can handle it.
She said, "But if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. It won't be the end of the world. Let's just have fun together while we can. We will deal with things as they happen. You can kiss who you want, but I'm not comfy with more than that."
I think it's the best I can hope for right now, if I don't want to lose her. She's pretty much saying, "Do what you will." My response is, "Yes, I will be myself, but I'm offering you a chance to discuss options."
We're not really seeing a compromise in sight for either of us. It's been discussed. We'll move on for now. I am trying to let go of needing to have control over every aspect of the situation, and predict the future, because I can't. I want to be happy with her and experience life together. I just need some space to be me.
I'm hoping things smooth themselves out, like they have with Jules. It's kinda how it went with him, too.
I will admit I'm stubborn. I analyze and go over every detail obsessively, and think deeply into every situation, so when I come to a conclusion, it's usually pretty final, or at least what I know I need in that moment of time or situation. It's very thought-out, so I'm hard to persuade otherwise.
I had come to the conclusion that all the issues I had that were distancing me from Jules stemmed from feeling too dependent on him, in turn closing off my independence, and not feeling in total control of myself. I needed space, independence and the freedom to be myself with others. We discussed it a few times before I said, "Look, it's a need, not a want. I don't wanna fuck up or 'cheat,' so I'm telling you now it's what I need, and you have the option to stay or go. I don't want to constantly feel guilty or hurt or disappoint you." He stayed, and things have never been better.
Tbh, I think sometimes when dealing with jealousy, "ignorance can be bliss." He knows I have his "blessing" to do what I will, but I don't offer up details, so he's not hurting himself by creating scenarios, and nothing bad has happened. It has only enhanced every aspect of our relationship. Not taken anything away. He gave me freedom to grow, and challenged himself to grow also, while having the time+space needed to learn about what caused his jealousy.
I can only hope that will happen with Aimee. I hope the more we try to grow together, and as individuals, these "problems" will melt away into history. I think I can do and get what I need, to a point, and like I said .,deal with the rest as it comes along.
I told her leaving it all open-ended without resolution scares me. I don't want it to end up like the last agreement, dragging on forever. She said she just doesn't want to fight about it anymore, that it hurts most to fight, that she knows I'm going to do what I'm going to do, but she can't predict how she'll feel or react, and doesn't want to make any agreements on it, either.
We kinda sat in silence for a while, both just stumped on what to do. I said I'm afraid of having this same convo over and over. I know how I feel and it's not going to change. Whether we deal with it today, in a month, 6 months, or a year, I know that's the kind of relationship I want (more open, more free) and she doesn't know if she can handle it.
She said, "But if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. It won't be the end of the world. Let's just have fun together while we can. We will deal with things as they happen. You can kiss who you want, but I'm not comfy with more than that."
I think it's the best I can hope for right now, if I don't want to lose her. She's pretty much saying, "Do what you will." My response is, "Yes, I will be myself, but I'm offering you a chance to discuss options."
We're not really seeing a compromise in sight for either of us. It's been discussed. We'll move on for now. I am trying to let go of needing to have control over every aspect of the situation, and predict the future, because I can't. I want to be happy with her and experience life together. I just need some space to be me.
I'm hoping things smooth themselves out, like they have with Jules. It's kinda how it went with him, too.
I will admit I'm stubborn. I analyze and go over every detail obsessively, and think deeply into every situation, so when I come to a conclusion, it's usually pretty final, or at least what I know I need in that moment of time or situation. It's very thought-out, so I'm hard to persuade otherwise.
I had come to the conclusion that all the issues I had that were distancing me from Jules stemmed from feeling too dependent on him, in turn closing off my independence, and not feeling in total control of myself. I needed space, independence and the freedom to be myself with others. We discussed it a few times before I said, "Look, it's a need, not a want. I don't wanna fuck up or 'cheat,' so I'm telling you now it's what I need, and you have the option to stay or go. I don't want to constantly feel guilty or hurt or disappoint you." He stayed, and things have never been better.
Tbh, I think sometimes when dealing with jealousy, "ignorance can be bliss." He knows I have his "blessing" to do what I will, but I don't offer up details, so he's not hurting himself by creating scenarios, and nothing bad has happened. It has only enhanced every aspect of our relationship. Not taken anything away. He gave me freedom to grow, and challenged himself to grow also, while having the time+space needed to learn about what caused his jealousy.
I can only hope that will happen with Aimee. I hope the more we try to grow together, and as individuals, these "problems" will melt away into history. I think I can do and get what I need, to a point, and like I said .,deal with the rest as it comes along.
DADT (Don't Ask Don't Tell) doesn't often work, but it does for some people at least up to a point and I think you have seen a bit of that. Perhaps if your girlfriend isn't overly aware of the details of what you're doing, she won't be so upset? You could ask her about that. Some people imagine the worst if they don't hear the details straight up.
I think it's good that you and she had a heart-to-heart about it all and decided to just negotiate things a day at a time as you are able. And it sounds like you and your boyfriend have already got things figured out pretty well.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Regards,
Kevin T.
I think it's good that you and she had a heart-to-heart about it all and decided to just negotiate things a day at a time as you are able. And it sounds like you and your boyfriend have already got things figured out pretty well.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Regards,
Kevin T.
It seems like she is basically saying:
That is and has always been her bag to hold. Her willingness to participate initially and her willingness to continue to participate is her decision, not yours.
It sounds pretty reasonable and realistic.
You cannot predict or control every little thing. You yourself recognize that.
So go date whom you want, kiss whom you want, and before it gets to sex time with a new person, give her a heads-up so she's included and respected in the information loop, so she can make her own sex health decisions.
She can decide if she's still in, or if she wants to step off the polyship at that point. If she wants to step off, you pause so she can step off with dignity and grace. Then you carry forward with Jules and the new person.
This might be hard to feel. That seems to be your trouble right now, handling your own emotional management on this. You seem to be over the hump, though. Are you?
At this point, it seems pretty straightforward in behavior management, so that everyone feels respected during the transition process.
I'm glad you guys have arrived at some sort of work-in-progress agreement.
"Go ahead and date. I'm willing to go there. I will deal with whatever I feel once there, including whether or not I feel like continuing to participate in this polyship with you. That's on me. I won't block you. If it works out, okay. If it doesn't, not the end of the world."
That is and has always been her bag to hold. Her willingness to participate initially and her willingness to continue to participate is her decision, not yours.
It sounds pretty reasonable and realistic.
You cannot predict or control every little thing. You yourself recognize that.
So go date whom you want, kiss whom you want, and before it gets to sex time with a new person, give her a heads-up so she's included and respected in the information loop, so she can make her own sex health decisions.
She can decide if she's still in, or if she wants to step off the polyship at that point. If she wants to step off, you pause so she can step off with dignity and grace. Then you carry forward with Jules and the new person.
This might be hard to feel. That seems to be your trouble right now, handling your own emotional management on this. You seem to be over the hump, though. Are you?
At this point, it seems pretty straightforward in behavior management, so that everyone feels respected during the transition process.
I'm glad you guys have arrived at some sort of work-in-progress agreement.
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I agree, but I can also understand if HK feels unable to develop relationships with other people whilst Aimee might object to something she does and end their relationship. I can empathize with that need for some certainty before they take that leap with someone else.It seems like she is basically saying:
"Go ahead and date. I'm willing to go there. I will deal with whatever I feel once there, including whether or not I feel like continuing to participate in this polyship with you. That's on me. I won't block you. If it works out, okay. If it doesn't, not the end of the world."
That is and has always been her bag to hold. Her willingness to participate initially and her willingness to continue to participate is her decision, not yours.
This sounds pretty reasonable and realistic.
You cannot predict/control every little thing. You yourself recognize that.
So go date whom you want, kiss whom you want, and before it gets to sex time with the new person, give her a heads-up so she's included and respected in the information loop, and can make her own sex health decisions.
She can decide if she's still in, or if she wants to step off the polyship at that point. If she wants to step off, you pause, so she can step off with dignity and grace. Then you carry forward with Jules and the new person.
This might be hard to feel. That seems to be your trouble right now, handling your own emotional management on this. You seem to be over the hump though. Are you?
At this point it seems pretty straightforward in behavior management so that all people are respected in the transition process.
I'm glad you guys have arrived at some sort of work-in-progress agreement.
But if you can manage that reality and still have other relations, do it. There is a chance that Aimee might be able to deal with it as it happens.
The only option you have, if you really can't take the leap with the knowledge this might be the proverbial straw, is to end it.
LovingRadiance
Active member
I have found that it helps to have a set time to come back to the table. For us, we have agreed that every 3 months we will look at our agreements and see if they are still working for us. That way, if one of us feels a need for a change, we know it's possible at that 3-month mark to address it.
But we don't discuss it at any other time unless it's AN EMERGENCY situation, and frankly, there hasn't been such a thing, because most poly situations aren't emergencies.
It also forces us to follow through on our commitments, regardless of NRE. So for example, if one of us meets someone, and we want to change our agreement for the benefit of this new relationship, we can tell them our negotiation timeframes (Jan, Mar, June, Sept). (We intentionally made the first timeframe awkward to avoid Christmas season and our anniversaries (mine with GG is in April, and with Maca in July). That doesn't mean that the change can't happen. But it does mean we aren't going to just start demanding changes because we are caught up in NRE.
It's important to understand that Aimee doesn't have to accept being in a relationship as open as you would like. That's her right. You don't have to accept being in a relationship as closed as she would like. That's your right.
But if you want to be together, there needs to be compromise. Compromise, by its nature, means you both get SOME of what you want, but not all. It sounds like she's offered a compromise. Whether it's reasonable enough for you, only you can decide. But it's certainly not what she wants, and it's more towards what you want, even though it's not everything you want. That makes it a reasonable offer AS A COMPROMISE.
If your highest priority at the moment is not losing her, it might be reasonable to agree with the caveat of wanting to reassess if it is still working for both of you at some specified time in the future. That stops the fight and allows time to "see how it goes," but also keeps it clear that this isn't necessarily going to be feasible forever.
But we don't discuss it at any other time unless it's AN EMERGENCY situation, and frankly, there hasn't been such a thing, because most poly situations aren't emergencies.
It also forces us to follow through on our commitments, regardless of NRE. So for example, if one of us meets someone, and we want to change our agreement for the benefit of this new relationship, we can tell them our negotiation timeframes (Jan, Mar, June, Sept). (We intentionally made the first timeframe awkward to avoid Christmas season and our anniversaries (mine with GG is in April, and with Maca in July). That doesn't mean that the change can't happen. But it does mean we aren't going to just start demanding changes because we are caught up in NRE.
It's important to understand that Aimee doesn't have to accept being in a relationship as open as you would like. That's her right. You don't have to accept being in a relationship as closed as she would like. That's your right.
But if you want to be together, there needs to be compromise. Compromise, by its nature, means you both get SOME of what you want, but not all. It sounds like she's offered a compromise. Whether it's reasonable enough for you, only you can decide. But it's certainly not what she wants, and it's more towards what you want, even though it's not everything you want. That makes it a reasonable offer AS A COMPROMISE.
If your highest priority at the moment is not losing her, it might be reasonable to agree with the caveat of wanting to reassess if it is still working for both of you at some specified time in the future. That stops the fight and allows time to "see how it goes," but also keeps it clear that this isn't necessarily going to be feasible forever.
hellokitty
New member
This DADT thing is hard to manage, especially living together. And tbh, I'm starting to think that was never even truly on the table to begin with. Aimee made it very clear she didn't want to argue about this stuff anymore. She told me she knows what I need, and that I'm going to do what I want. But, just as my therapist warned me, it's just a cop-out to avoid truly dealing with things, because then, when I DO go and do what I want, there are arguments, accusations, passive aggressiveness, and icky drama that makes me feel bad.
I love her so much. Everything else in our relationship is wonderful, happy, perfect. But I want to date other people, and I don't think she will ever be able to accept that. I feel so selfish and stupid even considering giving up this amazing love I've found for the freedom to be with other people. But I can't help but feel so strongly about it. Idk what to do.
I know I sound like a goddamn broken record, going around in circles with this, but it's just not easy.
This DADT stuff makes me feel like shit. I feel like a liar and a cheater, which I DESPISE. That's not me. That's not who I am or what I believe in. Wtf??? How did I get here??? What am I doing??? I feel so fucked!!!!
I love her so much. Everything else in our relationship is wonderful, happy, perfect. But I want to date other people, and I don't think she will ever be able to accept that. I feel so selfish and stupid even considering giving up this amazing love I've found for the freedom to be with other people. But I can't help but feel so strongly about it. Idk what to do.
I know I sound like a goddamn broken record, going around in circles with this, but it's just not easy.
This DADT stuff makes me feel like shit. I feel like a liar and a cheater, which I DESPISE. That's not me. That's not who I am or what I believe in. Wtf??? How did I get here??? What am I doing??? I feel so fucked!!!!
She probably isn't being honest because she doesn't want to deal with it.
To be fair to her, if she really is monoamorous, then she shouldn't be dealing with it.
I think she should be treating your excursions as if you were hanging out with friends. Technically, you are, right?
Everything else in our relationship is wonderful, happy, perfect. But I want to date other people and I don't think she will ever be able to accept that. I feel so selfish and stupid even considering giving up this amazing love I've found for the freedom to be with other people. But I can't help but feel so strongly about it. Idk what to do. And I know I sound like a goddamn broken record going around in circles, but it's just not easy.
This DADT stuff makes me feel like shit. I feel like a liar and a cheater, which I DESPISE. That's not me. That's not who I am or what I believe in. Wtf??? How did I get here???? What am I doing??? I feel so fucked...!!!!
You have to decide what you need.
I'm pretty monoamorous. I'm not really against polyamory, but I've never cultivated it, so I don't really have that aspect in my life.
The way I handle my wife's intent (she is being very gradual, for which I am grateful) is to think of my wife as having friends she deserves to be with and hang out with. The hard part is to imagine sex as one of those hobbies she does with her friends, given that I've been trained my whole life to be a monogamist.
It doesn't help that even a couple years ago my wife explicitly said she wouldn't tolerate infidelity, so this is still something we are working out.
So maybe the way to go about this gently is to just have friendships and build up her sense of trust in you. Just hanging out with friends, just having coffee, just whatever that you do with people you love that doesn't require crossing the sex boundary.
Of course the question is, "Why is sex out of bounds?"
The answer is, "Why are you staying with a gf who can't handle your extra-curricular activities?"
There's no real hard and fast rule here other than being compassionate, on both sides.
Look, you are working yourself up. It's not fun to feel, but take all evaluations and feelings out of it. Focus on behaviors. Try it on in your head.
HYPOTHETICAL BEHAVIOR: YOU BREAK UP WITH HER.
Test 1:
Yep, breaking up solves that.
Test 2:
Yep, breaking up solves that.
Test 3:
You want to be free of DADT.
Yep, breaking up solves that.
Test 4:
Breaking up does not affect that. You can keep on loving her as an ex, not in the same way as her gf, but you can love her. Nothing and nobody is stopping you from carrying love in your heart for her.
CONCLUSION:
As hard as it is, so the suckage can end for all of you, break up. Do what needs doing to free all of you from circles.
Step off the merry-go-round. The price of admission? Emotional courage. "Man up" and go for it. Be willing to be sad, be willing to heal, and then be willing to feel better.
You will all be okay in the end, I promise.
You got here because feelings ensue after behavior. You chose behavior that did not agree with maintaining your spiritual health. Keep choosing it. When people do that, it is hard for them to feel proud of themselves for dinging their own spirit.
You could choose to re-align your behavior with what you do believe in -- so you can return to right relationship with yourself. Then you can feel better in spirit over time.
No judgement here. I mean that kindly. But I see you continuing this way round and round when you could just... STOP. Even you see it and seem tired of going in circles. It really is that easy to not be eroding your spirit. STOP. Surrender, no more effort made. Just... stopping.
Tell her you love her, you always will, but this going in circles is grinding people down. So let's just stop. Let go of all the arguing and fighting and all that. Just stop. Then you both can move on to the business of healing. That is my suggestion to you. Just stop.
What might you need from yourself or her to become okay with the idea of stopping?
HYPOTHETICAL BEHAVIOR: YOU BREAK UP WITH HER.
Test 1:
- She wants to stop fighting.
- You want to stop fighting.
Yep, breaking up solves that.
Test 2:
- She is willing for you to date and deal with it as it comes.
- You tried that approach, did not like it, are not willing to continue taking that approach.
Yep, breaking up solves that.
Test 3:
You want to be free of DADT.
Yep, breaking up solves that.
Test 4:
- You don't want to give up loving her at this time.
Breaking up does not affect that. You can keep on loving her as an ex, not in the same way as her gf, but you can love her. Nothing and nobody is stopping you from carrying love in your heart for her.
CONCLUSION:
As hard as it is, so the suckage can end for all of you, break up. Do what needs doing to free all of you from circles.
Step off the merry-go-round. The price of admission? Emotional courage. "Man up" and go for it. Be willing to be sad, be willing to heal, and then be willing to feel better.
You will all be okay in the end, I promise.
You got here because feelings ensue after behavior. You chose behavior that did not agree with maintaining your spiritual health. Keep choosing it. When people do that, it is hard for them to feel proud of themselves for dinging their own spirit.
You could choose to re-align your behavior with what you do believe in -- so you can return to right relationship with yourself. Then you can feel better in spirit over time.
No judgement here. I mean that kindly. But I see you continuing this way round and round when you could just... STOP. Even you see it and seem tired of going in circles. It really is that easy to not be eroding your spirit. STOP. Surrender, no more effort made. Just... stopping.
Tell her you love her, you always will, but this going in circles is grinding people down. So let's just stop. Let go of all the arguing and fighting and all that. Just stop. Then you both can move on to the business of healing. That is my suggestion to you. Just stop.
What might you need from yourself or her to become okay with the idea of stopping?
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I love her so much and everything else in our relationship is wonderful, happy, perfect. But I want to date other people and I don't think she will ever be able to accept that. I feel so selfish and stupid even considering giving up this amazing love I've found for the freedom to be with other people. But I can't help but feel so strongly about it. Idk what to do. And I know I sound like a god damn broken record going around in circles with this but it's just not easyOh, boy, do I relate! My husband and I have been having this battle for a year. My current arrangement with my husband is DADT. If someone comes along in my life for whom I grow strong feelings for, I am to tell him "There's someone I want to spend more time with," and we'll work out some guidelines. If it's another woman, he thinks he'll be able to handle it. If it's a man, he says he can't promise he won't freak. Either way, I'm supposed to be discreet in public (small town,) people I date are not to come around me when he's around (he works a lot so its doable,) and he doesn't want to know who they are, they aren't to interfere in his life in any way.
I have told him that I feel he's setting me up to fail. A casual fling or friends-with-benefits can survive those rules, but how can I expect a loving relationship with someone I have to keep a secret? Of course, my husband wants me to happy, but on the other hand, he doesn't REALLY want me to get serious about anyone else.
So I understand your dilemma. Do you leave this person you love over this one thing? Whose to say you'll be happier dating whoever you want once the person you loved most is gone? So you make compromises, and so do they. But will they ever really be comfortable with this? Will we?
I made the decision recently to stop trying to solve this all at once, otherwise both me and hubby will lose our minds. I'm just going to see how it all evolves, I'm going to be grateful for the love and freedom I've already got, and when the time comes that I need to ask for more, I will. This has stopped the struggle between us, calmed me immensely, and let me stay in touch with my feelings of love for my husband while still leaving me open to any attractions floating around me.
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It's pretty easy. He wants to monopolize you. I know that's how I feel about my own wife. It's really not easy to go from the assumption that your life is monopolized to one where it isn't.
I'm not judging here, and don't wish to be judged either. Our culture and upbringing assumes monopolization as the norm.
Serious question: do you have strong, good friendships outside of your husband, people he doesn't normally associate with? How much time do you dedicate to them? What kind of allowances do you have for that?
Hi hellokitty,
It is paramount at this time that you decide whether you are venting, or giving voice to the cry of every part of your heart, body, mind, and soul. If venting, then acknowledge that this is a difficult time for you and your girlfriend, but that it's worth enduring the ick so that the two of you can find some common ground and live in peace on that ground. But if it's more than venting, then it looks like you're preparing to ride this runaway train until it crashes. I'm not sure I'd recommend that.
Re (from hellokitty):
Is this the truth, and if it is, then why are you focusing so much on the negative? If it's not the truth, then why are you trying to defend an excuse for riding along with the status quo? Either way, I am hearing a cognitive dissonance in the quoted statement.
Perhaps a pro/con sheet would help, describing what you get out of staying with your girlfriend and trying to get along with her, as well as what doing so costs you, and then another pro/con sheet describing what breaking up with her would cost you, what benefits it would make possible, and whether that's worth it?
It seems to me that you're probably still venting and not at all ready to break up with this woman whom you love. But it is hard for me to hear the venting, and know that what you really want me to hear is that, "But this is such a wonderful relationship she and I have; please help me feel better about staying with her!"
The best I can do along those lines is to point out that she does have respect for your autonomy. By the way, does she want to break up?
Honestly? What I'm seeing is that you and she both want to stay together -- but also that each of you also wants (and believes that) the other to/will change. And I kind of doubt either of you is going to change. So what lies in your future? Let's say you two stay together. What will your life together look like in ten years? in fifty? Since you are closer than any of us to the situation, only you can possibly hope to objectively answer that question.
It is paramount at this time that you decide whether you are venting, or giving voice to the cry of every part of your heart, body, mind, and soul. If venting, then acknowledge that this is a difficult time for you and your girlfriend, but that it's worth enduring the ick so that the two of you can find some common ground and live in peace on that ground. But if it's more than venting, then it looks like you're preparing to ride this runaway train until it crashes. I'm not sure I'd recommend that.
Re (from hellokitty):
Is this the truth, and if it is, then why are you focusing so much on the negative? If it's not the truth, then why are you trying to defend an excuse for riding along with the status quo? Either way, I am hearing a cognitive dissonance in the quoted statement.
Perhaps a pro/con sheet would help, describing what you get out of staying with your girlfriend and trying to get along with her, as well as what doing so costs you, and then another pro/con sheet describing what breaking up with her would cost you, what benefits it would make possible, and whether that's worth it?
It seems to me that you're probably still venting and not at all ready to break up with this woman whom you love. But it is hard for me to hear the venting, and know that what you really want me to hear is that, "But this is such a wonderful relationship she and I have; please help me feel better about staying with her!"
The best I can do along those lines is to point out that she does have respect for your autonomy. By the way, does she want to break up?
Honestly? What I'm seeing is that you and she both want to stay together -- but also that each of you also wants (and believes that) the other to/will change. And I kind of doubt either of you is going to change. So what lies in your future? Let's say you two stay together. What will your life together look like in ten years? in fifty? Since you are closer than any of us to the situation, only you can possibly hope to objectively answer that question.
Exactly, Spock! So I applaud that's he's come so far out of his comfort zone out of love for and understanding of me. I knew he was a "Regular Joe" when I fell in love with him, and he knew I was a wild card. We both took our chances.
He works crazy hours, so I have a lot of time where he's out of the picture. Our social life is only sometimes intertwined. We go out a lot separately. We aren't one of those couples that are always together, or who only hangs with other couples. My good friends know when I'm seeing someone, and they're discreet. So far, I've mostly managed to keep worlds from colliding (except in the very beginning when it was a bit of a mess.) But inevitably, at some point, he's going to go from not exactly knowing if I am, to KNOWING I AM. He says he's preparing himself for that inevitability too. I've got to trust him. I have no reason not to.
I don't want to derail HELLOKITTY's post! But it is a very similar situation. Whether DADT is doable for HK depends on many factors, internal and external.
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