Discomfort/confusion: could use some advice and insight

AlexisMM

New member
Hi everyone, thanks for the wonderful platform of support.

This post might be a little long. I will edit as much as possible before posting to shorten where I can.

I'm sort of new here. My husband and I discussed opening our relationship a few years ago and I scoured the forums back then for information and made a post or two. Our exploration ended before it really began because I realized I wasn't comfortable opening our relationship due to some major trust issues. He had violated my trust romantically when we were dating and in small insidious ways over the first five years of our marriage. The idea for polyamory was mine, as I wasn't feeling fulfilled in our marriage, spiritually, emotionally or physically. The act of deciding to open put the spotlight on my unresolved trust issues so we stopped looking outside the relationship. My experience with polyamory is nil, but I know enough about human nature and jealousy to realize open relationships should be built on a solid foundation if they're going to work they way they're supposed to.

In October of 2014 I unilaterally decided to separate from my husband. I left town and lived with my mom for a few months. During this time we talked some and saw each other a handful of times. When the idea of dating other people came up we were both so traumatized that the answer seemed (to me at least) an emphatic "NO!"

While I was gone I worked through many of my own issues and felt like I was in a place to be much less co-dependent and more autonomous. My childhood was traumatic and I suffered from neglect, abandonment and emotional and sexual abuse. This often manifests in general anxiety for me, which was often hard to control. I felt like a healthier person upon my return and had shed many of my trust and jealousy issues.

My husband had his own growth experiences of course and part of that included expanding his social life. We are friends with a couple who have a community living situation. Part of that is dinner five nights a week with 10-12 people and everyone takes turns cooking the evening meal. I joined the group when I came back and really enjoyed having a built-in social life. I only go a couple nights per week because that much socializing is too much for my anxiety right now--taking baby steps.

I was making new friends, sometimes having them in my home, opening up a bit about myself, hugging etc. It all felt very positive and healthy. One of the best parts was that I never felt jealous or uncomfortable that he was interacting with other women, the way I would have in the past. I never thought twice about him going without me and enjoyed having the house to myself.

A few weeks in to all of this I accidentally found out that he had slept with one of the women in the group while I was living away. She is in a primary poly relationship with a man who is also in the group. She is also one of the people I had started opening up to, hugging, etc.

As you can imagine, I felt knocked sideways by this. Because we had talked about being poly in the past and we were separated without clear terms about dating or knowledge of if or when we would get back together, I don't *exactly* feel cheated on. However, I do feel betrayed and violated. I had these folks in my house, I was breaking bread with them and hugging them. They had intimate knowledge of my relationship and my husband's choice that I was not privy to. Some of my feelings are difficult to define and feel somewhat nebulous--like a physical discomfort in my chest.

That was the background info. The advice and insight I'm seeking is really on how to come to terms with this. I don't want to stop going to the dinners and I have no animosity toward the couple; they are unwitting participants. However, I do have a palpable discomfort around the woman. And the man too, a little bit. It's weird thinking back on all of our interactions knowing what I know now. The frustrating thing is now I don't know how I would have interacted with her if I was given this information before I met her. Before, these two were part of the fabric of an enjoyable dinner club experience; but, now I am hyper aware of their presence or lack of presence if they don't attend. Since I was put into this situation without my consent, I missed out on the opportunity to decide whether I wanted to interact with my husband's lover (what term do you use?).

My husband and I are working through this. He is putting all of my needs front and center and has offered to stop going to the dinners for awhile so I can go without the additional emotional pressure his presence adds to the situation.

Honestly, I don't really know what I'm asking for from you all. There's a possibility that we will decide to open our relationship again, which is why I on here asking folks that have been through it. But your experiences and stories that may relate to my situation would be nice. Like a Namaste. Please feel free to ask questions if anything needs clarification.
 
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I am sorry you struggle.

Let me repeat back what I understand so far. You correct me if I am wrong, ok?

BACKGROUND

  • You guys were having problems.
  • You went to live with your mom for a few months this fall/winter and take a time out. There was no changes to agreements between you. The marriage was Closed.
  • You felt better there away from him.
  • He cheated on you in that time with a poly woman at dinner club.
  • You come back and start going to dinner club thinking things are better.
  • You become kinda friends with the cheating partner and her husband, not knowing.
  • Then you find out about the affair.

FEELINGS

  • You feel hurt that he cheated. Betrayed, violated.
  • You feel weird around the couple. You don't think it is their fault, they were unwitting participants.

(Does that mean he lied to her about being Open? Have you been tested for STDs? )


CURRENT WANTS

  • Want advice, insight on how to handle this.
  • Don't want to stop going to the dinners.

So go to the dinners. Advice on the rest below.

DESIRED OUTCOME

You are not sure. (Part of why you want insight, help)

THE COUPLE

I have no animosity toward the couple; they are unwitting participants. However, I do have a palpable discomfort around the woman. And the man too, a little bit.

That is normal to feel under the circumstances.

I missed out on the opportunity to decide whether I wanted to interact with my husband's lover (what term do you use?).

I would use "unaware cheating partner." Using "metamour" implies all parties were consenting. You were not consenting. She may not have been either if he lied.

But the marriage was NOT Open.

Rather than focus on missed opportunities, focus on what you do have now. You get to choose how much to interact with her now.

Could be up front.

"I recently learned my husband had an affair with you/your wife recently without my consent. I don't hold any animosity toward you since you were unwitting participants.

I plan to keep coming to the dinner club and will be polite, but I hope you understand that I don't want to hug right now or hang out extra. I hope you understand that I'm working through some heavy stuff right now and I need some time and space."​

That is clear about your boundaries and they know what to expect from you at dinner club. Basic polite, but no hugs or hanging out extra. Everyone is clear about what to expect here. That helps makes it less awkward.

There's a possibility that we will decide to open our relationship again, which is why I on here asking folks that have been through it.

I do not see why you would agree to Open with him.

There are ongoing still major trust issues.
  • He had violated trust romantically when you were dating
  • He violated trust in small insidious ways over the first five years of marriage.
  • And he violates trust again in the present day by cheating with dinner club woman
  • And maybe some bonus lying to her about being in an Open relationship when he really is not.

What in all that makes him a great partner to poly with? What in all that makes him a great partner in marriage with?:confused:

If this is his character, you could accept it. He is how he is, unchanging for years.

Instead of distracting self with the poly question, could focus instead on the question of "Do I want to stay married to this chronic trust problems person?"

SUGGESTED ORDER

"Healing from cheating" is first on that table to me. Do not jump the gun.

"Rebuilding trust with him" is optional.
  • Because healing from cheating may include leaving permanently, not just another time out at your mom's.
  • I note you were doing well / much improved without him around. Then you go back with him it plummets again.
  • You do not HAVE to choose to rebuild trust here.
  • You could choose to step off the merry-go-round.

"Poly with him" won't happen well without trust foundations being strong. You seem to know that.

I know enough about human nature and jealousy to realize open relationships should be built on a solid foundation if they're going to work they way they're supposed to.

I don't know if this helps you any.

http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/

Because in this case I do not think it is about you two healing and eventually agreeing to poly, just not with cheating partner from dinner club.

I just don't think poly with HIM is a good idea. He is not trustworthy, and his track record shows he has not been for years.

You trying on poly might be better on your own...MUCH later after losing him and healing from all this mess.

I do not think polyamory is the solution to his cheating or his untrustworthiness. It is possible to cheat on poly agreements too.

Again, I am very sorry you deal in this.

Galagirl
 
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Hi Galagirl, Thank you so much for your reply.

Yes, you are understanding most of it correctly. The part I left out and may be difficult for others to comprehend is that this betrayal was a catalyst for a new openness between us that has never been here before. He has since shared with me parts of himself that he has kept hidden from everyone in his life even to the point of denying these parts to himself. It's been a beautiful thing actually and is the reason I'm still working it out.

The break allowed us both to re-familiarize with our own selves. It's not that I was happier without him, I was just able to work on myself in a way that was impossible in our angsty relationship. I hope this helps you understand my choice to stay with him.

Also, it's not actually his encounters with the woman that have me feeling betrayed. I don't really feel cheated on in that sense, but I think you would have to be in my head with my view of the separation to understand that. But yes, there was a violation of trust and an extremely insensitive choice on his part to let me enter into that situation unwittingly.

I am grateful for your advice on how to talk with the couple if I choose to. I've been thinking of talking with them, but haven't really known how. Your words are perfect.

Your step-wise advice for dealing with this is also very sound. I agree that that is a good way to approach this.

The reason poly is still on the table--for the distant future, if at all--is because I am open to exploring the idea. I know there is not one way for doing anything and I don't want to be limited by fear or social construct. I know we both have a lot of work to do before this could ever be possible for us and I will proceed with caution.

One thing nagging at me still is that I feel badly for her because I don't think she would have chosen to be a part of it if she had known I was in the dark. My instinct is for him to apologize to her. In the past I had a dysfunctional tendency to create drama or tension unnecessarily so now I'm erring on the opposite of that spectrum--that is why I/we haven't approached them in any way. I'm worried about creating/adding drama. Possibly I just still need a little time to heal before opening that door and that is why I'm shying away from discussions with them.

Thank you again for your kind and wise reply. I'm very grateful.
 
Glad it helps some and glad to hear you proceed with caution.

One thing nagging at me still is that I feel badly for her because I don't think she would have chosen to be a part of it if she had known I was in the dark. My instinct is for him to apologize to her.

Yes. But you are not him. He can clean up his own messes. He lied to get in her pants. That is user-y.

If he does not apologize to her for lying on his own you could take note that he lacks integrity in that area, uses people, and he prefers what is comfy / handy for him to do or does only what gets him stuff he wants. Then review if that trait is something you want in a partner.

You have enough going on with your own relationship to them without doing his jobs for him.

Tread with caution with this "new openness" thing too. His intent was to keep it hidden. You found out by accident.

So this new fountain of openness could just be "whitewash" so you do not dump him at this time. :(

Galagirl
 
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Thanks again. I do understand and value your perspective. He's not a whitewashing sly guy. I can see how it can come across that way from my limited explanations though. I trust my instincts here. I trusted my instincts in the past as well, but I chose to ignore them up to a certain point. There's a big difference.

He does want to apologize to her, but I have asked to him to wait because I couldn't handle the thought of them alone together. I'm getting closer to the idea of being comfortable enough with him being with her to apologize--and maybe it's a conversation we'll all have together. I just wanted to know if my instinct for an apology was correct or if it would make things messy. She is currently not involved really. Their interactions were strictly sexual as per their agreement before beginning anything and it ended a couple weeks before I returned. She may have no idea of all this drama going on behind the scenes. Why bring her into it unnecessarily? That's my struggle. I didn't explain it very clearly earlier.

Any advice on above question would be helpful.
 
Could apologize by phone or letter. That meets the need for apology and your request right now for them not to be alone together. It does not have to be either/or. It can be both/and.

If their affair is over? Why bring it up?

That to me is a "values" question. This is why I would do it in those shoes:

Things are already messy. I would do it so all can be in the same room at dinner club without feeling weird/dread from the elephant in the room. Because pretending is not authentic relating to me. And so all can be in "right relationship" again because several of the relationships here got dinged. We do not all have to be pals at the end, but I would find peace in knowing effort was made to set things to right. I did not just give it a pass cuz it felt hard for me to do. I value integrity pretty highly.

You could have to reflect on what your values are and how you want to proceed. "Answer to the highest value" would be my advice when you sit down to reflect on what you value most right now.

You know your situation best.

Galagirl
 
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You're good at this advice thing! You're right, I do have a right to NOT feel uncomfortable at dinner club. And inauthentic is NOT comfortable. Writing it out is a good idea for several reasons.

I'm going to take my time with this one "answer to my higher value." (That's a really good way to put it.)

I feel much better, thank you!
 
Without clear guidelines about the separation, I'm not sure I see it as cheating. I understand separation to be like a trial divorce - the marriage agreements suspended, until both parties decide which direction they want to go.

I wasn't there, I can't say how the separation went down and what discussions were had. It doesn't sound like any specific agreements were made one way or another for the separation, leaving it all open to their individual assumptions and biases. I think it's fair for her husband to assume he was a free man until his wife came home. Then he'd have to choose.

I can also understand not telling about it. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. If his understanding was that they were basically broken up, and now were getting back together, why tell her about something that happened while she'd left him and was over before she came back? Did she ever ask him specifically if he had other partners, and he lied? Or did she just assume and he just let her.

Drama comes from blame and holding grudges. If you genuinely don't hold them responsible, then I think telling them how you feel is the way to go. They'll notice the change in your behaviour anyway, and without communication they'll have no idea what's going on, especially if they took it for granted that you and your husband had communicated and consented to whatever went down. So I see value in telling them you didn't know about it and now you're dealing with your feelings on that, so you just need some personal space to work through that. Then they have the opportunity to offer support on your terms rather than stumbling around in the dark.
 
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Re:
"Without clear guidelines about the separation, I'm not sure I see it as cheating. I understand separation to be like a trial divorce -- the marriage agreements suspended, until both parties decide which direction they want to go."

Yeah, that was kind of my take on it.

Re:
"If his understanding was that they were basically broken up, and now were getting back together, why tell her about something that happened while she'd left him and was over before she came back?"

Well I'm not as sure about that, since AlexisMM was in regular contact with the woman he'd been involved with. Made things awkward for Alexis after she found out, if nothing else.

Plus, it troubles me a little that he didn't tell the other woman about Alexis, or worse, told the other woman that Alexis knew and approved. Not sure what level of fibbing we're dealing with.
 
Yeah, exactly. I don't really feel cheated on as terms were nebulous. I see the lack of disclosure as a problem though. Everyone's different and expectations for each and every relationship is different. A particular problem for us that contributed the separation was his severe lack of meaningful communication with me. His decision to not tell me made me wonder which way our relationship would travel at the crossroads. That's not super important to my post though, not exactly. The part that felt like a violation was he allowed me to enter into dinner club with people who had intimate knowledge about my relationship and my husband that I was not privy to. That's the sticking point with me. If she wasn't part of our friend group and I never had a cause to meet her, I would feel different about of this. Another issue for me is that the poly couple seem to have a lot of integrity with how they operate in their relationships and I so I was angry that they were unknowingly placed in a situation that violated their ethics.

I appreciate your feedback on talking with them. It feels like the absolute right thing to do. I don't think there's any way they haven't noticed my new distance with them. We all went from hugging before leaving dinner to barely making eye contact. It's unpleasant and bad for digestion!!

Thanks for the validation on that. Namaste
 
We weren't officially broken up. Our relationship had become so dysfunctional that we separated to gain perspective to figure out whether we should break up. We were both unsure and confused about what the outcome would be, but we were definitely not "broken up".

I do know that she knew about me and knew we were separated. She also was under the impression that it was okay for him to sleep with other people. Now where I'm guessing is that she and her man both assumed I knew about the encounters. Looking back on our interactions in dinner club before I knew, there was kind of an instant bond feeling between me and them. They seemed appreciative of me. I don't really know how to explain it. My intuition is telling me they thought I knew.

kdt--there are a few troubling parts to all of this and much of it is outside my wheelhouse. Like, I'm making assumptions about them, or poly people in general, such as awkward conversations are inevitable and very much a part of being poly. Lots of emotional navigation, I'm sure. I'm also assuming she may feel angry for being put in a situation that lacks integrity. It's a lot to wrap my head around.
 
Well, it's not good to (guess or) assume. Have as many conversations (however awkward) as necessary to get to the bottom of things.
 
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