Discovered that I've been horribly wrong about some things

[anamikanon]

Communication has been an ongoing problem in our relationship. We have struggled with it, worked on it, it has got better, but it remains far from perfect. I talk too much, he doesn't talk enough.

One major problem in our relationship has been what I used to see as highly exaggerated and melodramatic replies by him. For example, if I said I disagree with something he said about ABC - he'd reply with "Ok, I'll never talk about ABC ever again". One moment he'd bring up a subject he felt passionately about and draw me into a discussion, then at some minor point I may add (not even disagree, but something he may not have thought of himself - no idea - guessing) something to the view he was building and he'd back off saying I was right and he didn't know what he was thinking to bring that up anyway and that it didn't matter leaving me stranded in the middle of a spirited discussion he had initiated that had.... vanished?

This isn't occasional. It is how he responds to the slightest perceived criticism (may not even be criticism, may simply be a different view). To the point that I am aware that I rapidly changed my interactions with him in order to avoid triggering him - so obviously I sensed that it was a dysfunctional area. Sometimes I saw it as his tendency to be extremely harsh with himself and tried to bring a sense of perspective, but also it often irritated me and I found it excessive and melodramatic and attention seeking and manipulative.... "for god's sake, it isn't a crime to have a different view. You're just trying to shut me up with an extreme reaction". I called it mental abuse (and on my end it was!) and he simply agreed and apologised.

A few days ago I was going through the traits on the out of the fog website to see if I could find practical insights/tips to deal with recurring communication issues and one thing led to another and I ended up reading the symptoms of Avoidant Personality Disorder - and they were like they sat Spexy down and described him He has not been to a psychologist yet, but the symptoms match so perfectly, that there seems little doubt.

My mind has been in turmoil ever since. It basically means that all the times I lost my temper with him for his exaggerated and melodramatic responses criticizing himself for absurdly trivial things, he was actually believing those godawful things to be true about himself and my anger added to his personal hell. I still don't know how I can apologize enough for this.

There is some good news. In the sense that cognitive therapy is promising as per the information available, and I have at least some skills on that front and they have already helped him over the time we have been together. Knowing the issue more clearly, I have no doubt that I will be able to support him better and even help him develop skills for "reality checking" extreme negative/pessimistic perceptions about himself. This is doable. I have done this before in life coaching scenarios as well as group therapy scenarios.

That said, I have no experience with specific disorders. My experience is with dysfunctional behavior (which is what a disorder is fundamentally, but I have not actually dealt with disorders intentionally). He has not gone to a psychologist yet. He says he will. I don't want to push him at the moment. I also have severe scepticism about the quality of most psychologists in India. I have met several, and they seem to be more well versed with the theory of psychology and medication than actual application for behavioral issues, and most of them seem to have little experiential clarity. Most of them actually seem to have muddled personal processes (lack of self awareness/sensitivity for others) and tend to preach - which often overwhelms Spexy completely into agreement (whether he agrees or not, or will do as advised or not).

I guess at this point I'm still shocked by how much I misjudged him and how completely I missed something this big.

I am also feeling very guilty for how harshly I've judged him in the past.

I am wondering if any of you have wisdom to share on how to make amends for judging a partner very harshly when they were innocent of any deliberate intent. Also if any of you have partners with issues of low self-esteem and what helps reassure them and what doesn't.

And maybe an e-hug.

 

[Shaya]

I feel a big thing here, is if Spexy agrees with what you say. If Spexy reads this stuff and goes that's not me, then one of you thinks one thing whilst the other thinks another and a psychologist will find it hard to change that viewpoint.

Otherwise, amends come easily to healthy, humble people like you and Spexy. You've already forgiven each other so much. Reinforce the Love you have for each other. You're sorry. There was a misunderstanding, a huge one. You love each other. It is forgiven.

And don't do it again. kidding. Just kidding.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle. *hugs*

I am wondering if any of you have wisdom to share on how to make amends for judging a partner very harshly when they were innocent of any deliberate intent. Also if any of you have partners with issues of low self-esteem and what helps reassure them and what doesn't.

I think you could apologize ONCE, and then focus on improved behaviors from you in future. You listed things you could do:

• Encourage him to see a counselor. And if an in person one in India doesn't pan out, consider online counseling via Skype or whatever. You have other options out there.

• In the meantime, if you think you know what you might be dealing with? And it is ok with him? Use the Out of the Fog suggestions for that disorder. Most pages there have what to do/what not to do suggestions at the bottom of the article.

• Help him develop skills for "reality checking" extreme negative/pessimistic perceptions about himself.

• Manage your temper better. It's understandable to get mad sometimes, but MODEL what you would like to see him do when HE gets overwhelmed or angry. Say "I feel X. I need to take a time out" and then leave the room to go take it. Don't lash out at him.

He has not gone to a psychologist yet. He says he will. I don't want to push him at the moment.

Asking for an ETA is not pushing. You could say "I don't want to push you. Could you be willing to let me know an ETA on making that appointment? Like by X date, you will have had it done? And if I don't hear by then, I can ask how its going or offer to help you make it?"

Let him own his stuff, but hold him accountable so he's not putting it off forever. When HE gets to pick his ETA, it isn't you being pushy. It's part of helping him stay more on track.

I guess at this point I'm still shocked by how much I misjudged him and how completely I missed something this big.

I am also feeling very guilty for how harshly I've judged him in the past.

That's YOUR stuff to deal with. Don't pile it up on his head. He's got a bunch of HIS stuff to be dealing with.

Apologize once, and then change your future behaviors. If you need more help with emotional processing, seek others outside the system. Not in it. Maybe this helps.

Ring Theory

When he has a condition where he takes anything you say way too personally and out of proportion right now? Resist wanting to pile things on his head right now. If it's that you want comfort from him? Just ask directly for some comforting words or hugs. Don't "process" your stuff with him. At least not right now when he's trying to set up better systems for himself. Don't add to his load. Seek to take away from his load.

You can do that by processing with someone outside the system for now. Maybe you want counseling yourself so you get extra support while trying to "hold space" for him.

If your role is transitioning from (partner) to (partner who is also a caregiver) you are going to have adjustments to make as you learn to deal with your mental health patient partner and find the new balance.

Also if any of you have partners with issues of low self-esteem and what helps reassure them and what doesn't.

They have to learn to self validate. Others reassuring them? That's fine, but it could lead to others trying to fill the never ending black hole of need if they don't ALSO learn to self validate. If they cannot self validate, they are dependent on others to get that validation. Which keeps them in "people pleaser" mode from fear of loosing their validators that help prop them up. Which is not self respecting behavior. So self esteem takes a ding. So they need filling up again. One of those circle things they have to break out of.

To me? Good self esteem is being able to think well of myself and my behaviors and feeling proud of my actions.

It is based on self respect. If I DO less than self respecting behaviors? Like letting people walk all over me? It's going to be hard to feel proud of that behavior so my self esteem will take a ding.

If I do self respecting actions? Like when people try to walk all over me and I say "No, thank you. I am not up for that. You will have to find someone else for that." Then it is easy to think well of myself. I wasn't an asshole about it. So yay. And I wasn't setting me up to get used. So yay.

If he's conflict avoidant because he doesn't have good conflict resolution skills and he just folds each time to avoid discomfort? That's not self respecting behavior. That's people pleaser stuff at his own expense.

The solution would lie though him learning assertiveness, and learning better conflict resolution skills. And also learning that "assertive" doesn't mean "aggressive" or "asshole." It's just a firm polite no.

When I taught that idea to my kid, it was via My Little Pony. Kinda cheesy, but gets the point across. The episode is called "Putting Your Hoof Down" where Fluttershy is always folding/people pleasing. She takes an assertiveness seminar from Iron Will but takes it too far to the aggressive place. She's got to figure out the middle path -- not being a doormat but not going aggressive asshole either. Just a polite middle of the road assertive.

Sometimes looking at kid stuff helps adults too -- so maybe you could Google that episode.

HTH!
Galagirl

 

[anamikanon]

I'm sorry you struggle. *hugs*

Thank you. Needed that.

I think you could apologize ONCE, and then focus on improved behaviors from you in future. You listed things you could do:

• Encourage him to see a counselor. And if an in person on in India doesn't pan out, consider online counseling via Skype or whatever. You have other options out there.

I will try to talk to him about this. He has said several times in our relationship that he needs to see someone. I didn't take it too seriously, because I didn't realize that these are not just verbal exaggerations - like sarcasm - but actual beliefs about himself. They aren't all that often these days because I have learned to spot specific triggers and avoid them to some extent. He also has changed a lot since we started interacting and isn't that extreme as often as he used to be. But now that I know, I agree that he needs to see one - even if the person is not practically useful, at least for a diagnosis so we know what we are working with. I think he may get around to doing it soon. This is very recent.

• In the meantime, if you think you know what you might be dealing with? And it is ok with him? Use the Out of the Fog suggestions for that disorder. Most pages there have what to do/what not to do suggestions at the bottom of the article.

• Help him develop skills for "reality checking" extreme negative/pessimistic perceptions about himself.

That is what I am hoping for, if he is willing.

• Mange your temper better. It's understandable to get mad sometimes, but MODEL what you would like to see him do when HE gets overwhelmed or angry. Say "I feel X. I need to take a time out" and then leave the room to go take it. Don't lash out at him.

There is no question of getting angry at an extreme statement now. I am aghast. Now that I know what they mean, there is absolutely no question of getting angry. They angered me before because they sounded sarcastic at times - like an absurd, extreme exaggeration of what I was saying so that I'd be forced to disagree with it and abandon my original view.

Asking for an ETA is not pushing. You could say "I don't want to push you. Could you be willing to let me know an ETA on making that appointment? Like by X date, you will have had it done? And if I don't hear by then, I can ask how its going or offer to help you make it?"

Let him own his stuff, but hold him accountable so he's not putting it off forever. When HE gets to pick his ETA, it isn't you being pushy. It's part of helping him stay more on track.

I can try that.

That's YOUR stuff to deal with. Don't pile it up on his head. He's got a bunch of HIS stuff to be dealing with.

yes. Noted.

Apologize once, and then change your future behaviors. If you need more help with emotional processing, seek to others outside the system. Not in it. Maybe this helps.

Ring Theory

When he has a condition where he takes anything you say way too personally and out of proportion right now? Resist wanting to pile things on his head right now. If it's that you want comfort from him? Just ask directly for some comforting words or hugs. Don't "process" your stuff with him. At least not right now when he's trying to set up better systems for himself. Don't add to his load. Seek to take away from his load.

You can do that by processing with someone outside the system for now. Maybe you want counseling yourself so you get extra support while trying to "hold space" for him.

Reading, absorbing. This is very useful.

If your role is transitioning from (partner) to (partner who is also a caregiver) you are going to have adjustments to make as you learn to deal with your mental health patient partner and find the new balance.

He is functioning. We are in an LDR. His issues do impact everything he does, but it isn't exactly a transition into caregiving. More like a partner who also has his back when his perceptions are off and can remind him to verify if the low esteem for himself that he feels is an accurate assessment or prompt him into conversation if he seems to be holding back.

They have to learn to self validate. Others reassuring them? That's fine, but it could lead to others trying to fill the never ending black hole of need if they don't ALSO learn to self validate. If they cannot self validate, they are dependent on others to get that validation. Which keeps them in "people pleaser" mode from fear of loosing their validators that help prop them up. Which is not self respecting behavior. So self esteem takes a ding. So they need filling up again. One of those circle things they have to break out of.

To me? Good self esteem is being able to think well of myself and my behaviors and feeling proud of my actions.

It is based on self respect. If I DO less than self respecting behaviors? Like letting people walk all over me? It's going to be hard to feel proud of that behavior so my self esteem will take a ding.

If I do self respecting actions? Like when people try to walk all over me and I say "No, thank you. I am not up for that. You will have to find someone else for that." Then it is easy to think well of myself. I wasn't an asshole about it. So yay. And I wasn't setting me up to get used. So yay.

Thank you. This is important.

If he's conflict avoidant because he doesn't have good conflict resolution skills and he just folds each time to avoid discomfort? That's not self respecting behavior. That's people pleaser stuff at his own expense.

That is a large part of the problem. Including in some very dangerous areas like last year's affair. Beyond just problems in relationships, it has the potential to get him out of his depth on things he simply gets "persuaded" [wrong word] about. He isn't really persuaded. More like unable to resist/refuse.

The solution would lie though him learning assertiveness, and learning better conflict resolution skills. And also learning that "assertive" doesn't mean "aggressive" or "asshole." It's just a firm polite no.

When I taught that idea to my kid, it was via My Little Pony. Kinda cheesy, but gets the point across. The episode is called "Putting Your Hoof Down" where Fluttershy is always folding/people pleasing. She takes an assertiveness seminar from Iron Will but takes it too far to the aggressive place. She's got to figure out the middle path -- not being a doormat but not going aggressive asshole either. Just a polite middle of the road assertive.

Sometimes looking at kid stuff helps adults too -- so maybe you could Google that episode.

HTH!
Galagirl

I am so going to look up this video! We are recently into watching films together on his laptop in our room. It could be something fun to watch together. (yes we have watched kid stuff too)

 

[anamikanon]

After reading your post, GalaGirl, I'm also seeing how I am adding to the problem. My needs for emotional communication are not met. Unless we are discussing the relationship and I really push for answers I need, it is often like driving completely blind and on faith. I often have no idea if he really likes something he agreed to and in fact, he will agree to something to avoid an argument, then simply not do it, which feels like a betrayal to me.

This is an old and ongoing problem, but in the light of this discovery, I am also looking at it with new eyes.

On some level, I have also attached my emotional needs in the relationship to him improving his communication. It is how I've "always" been. You have a problem, you talk it out, you find a way together. But it doesn't work in this relationship. There is no "together" in trouble. Panicked silence and shutting out on one end and frustrated questions on the other. When things are good, we are brilliant together and the only good news is that lately things are good more often than not.

So far he is not able to discuss the relationship or emotions without considerable prodding. While that does work, it of course leaves EVERYTHING I don't ask about as an unknown that will likely never get told. It drives me crazy..... it works just enough to "work" and keep me hopeful, but it never is consistent enough to count on and it never may be.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein

I am realizing that I need to address my unmet emotional needs directly without seeing the result of any future improvement in him as a solution. That will help me remain sane and support him better. That will help him deal with his problems without the added negative impact of his inability to deal with them being a problem for me.

The thing is, I have no idea how to go about doing this. How to be okay with simply not being told large chunks of his mind about things relevant to us. How to find working alternatives.

At the moment, I don't feel that this is a big enough problem for our relationship to be in question, because I do know in other ways that he does love me, we are communicative on other levels, we appreciate each other very much. There is no malintent on either side. I am convinced that he wants to work on these issues, but from what I see, actually doing things that would result in change are not comfortable and he often doesn't do them. For example one of the ways I had suggested was that he spend time here - on these forums. Reading, interacting if he wishes, because he has no real vocabulary for a relationship. Even if he wants to share something, he is often lost for how to talk about it. I thought that one way would be hearing how others do it. We are constantly absorbing language patterns and they add to our "library" of words to use when we need. He agreed. Then didn't. When I felt upset that he agrees to end an argument but doesn't act, he made an account and posted an intro. And so on. And now I regret suggesting. It would help him, but he doesn't want to do it, and I ended up being just pushy with no benefit.

In the past we have tried things like naming emotions. He did while I pushed, stopped when I stopped pushing. I don't constantly nag him to do things. But on occasion I think something is doable and a good idea and I do suggest strongly. There may have been maybe 3-4 such suggestions. These two are the only two I tried to push". Others I just suggested and left him to accept or not as he wished. There is no difference in result. He agrees, doesn't do it.

That is also my concern with pushing for therapy. He may agree but not do it anyway. Right now he is saying he will inform me tomorrow of what specific actions he is planning for addressing these issues. This would include therapist. But there is no telling what he actually does.

His regret is very real and I don't doubt it. I think he finds it very difficult to act outside his comfort zone - which is basically a silence on anything remotely imperfect. It is very unsettling and at times leaves me wondering whether the whole relationship is just something I said and he didn't disagree with. This is a rather extreme example, but the point is I never really know how he feels about anything unless I ask about that specifically.

I am going to try to ask about things I really need to know and somehow find a way of dealing with the rest without depending on him. I don't know how.

 

[anamikanon]

Sorry for all the incoherence.

Basically I am trying to find a way to distance myself from the confusion and shutting out going on in him, because it keeps hurting me. I want to enjoy the good relationship we have and for the most part it is very good now, after a lot of work, but find a way to not feel horribly ditched when I need him to be emotionally present - he tries. He is not able. For the most part I can accept a good deal of "It is how it is, some parts are going to suck till they get better" but at times it is just very lonely and hurtful.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am trying to find a way to distance myself from the confusion and shutting out going on in him, because it keeps hurting me.

Learn to recognize that as emotional flooding. Stop taking it personally.

I often have no idea if he really likes something he agreed to and in fact, he will agree to something to avoid an argument, then simply not do it, which feels like a betrayal to me.

Don't take him at his Word. If you know he says things in the moment to avoid discomfort? Choose not to believe they will happen. Then if they do, they are a pleasant surprise bonus. Rather then expecting them to happen, and then be bummed out later when they don't. You deal with a PATIENT person. Remember that.

I see you going through stages of grief. You are in shock/numb stage as you realize that Spexy isn't being annoying or whatever on purpose. He has an actual condition and now he has to takes steps to a DX.

My mom had to struggle through all that with my Dad. She just couldn't wrap her brain around the fact that he was going down the Alzheimer road.

isn't exactly a transition into caregiving. More like a partner who also has his back when his perceptions are off and can remind him to verify if the low esteem for himself that he feels is an accurate assessment or prompt him into conversation if he seems to be holding back.

I do this A LOT for my father. His perceptions of situation can be off. He will either go aggressive with “everyone is out to get me!” or go self deprecating “I suck, and everything about me sucks which is why nobody loves me.”

This is part of providing care to me – helping them out when they are stuck in a muddy thinking process. They need reality checks.

I have also attached my emotional needs in the relationship to him improving his communication. It is how I've "always" been. You have a problem, you talk it out, you find a way together. But it doesn't work in this relationship. There is no "together" in trouble. Panicked silence and shutting out on one end and frustrated questions on the other. When things are good, we are brilliant together and the only good news is that lately things are good more often than not.

Accepting the limitations of my patient father is also part of caregiving. It's not like his things will be “solved.” The goal is not zero cows. Sometimes parent will have a cow. The goal is smaller cows, fewer and further in between.

You are fortunate that most of the time things are good. Why get upset on the days your partner is having a rough patient day?

And why give up on "You have a problem, you talk it out, you find a way together?" I think it can happen. You might have to change your expectations and approach. Pause when he emotionally floods. Be willing to sit on YOUR anxiety/urgency to get it solved NOW and do not pepper him with questions. Learn to recognize that as YOU maybe flooding also.

Take the problem solving thing SLOWER to accommodate for these things.

That's what I mean about you transitioning. You used to think of you guys as "partners." Now you are going to have to think of him as "patient and partner" and you as “caregiver and partner."

Caregiving may be small stuff. You aren't having to feed him, diaper him, or anything like that. But you are going to have to modify how you deal with him and his illness. And you may have to reality check YOUR expectations of him. He doesn't get a free pass on everything just because he's patient. But he also IS a patient, so his ability to deal with certain things won't be like someone who doesn't have his conditions.

I am realizing that I need to address my unmet emotional needs directly without seeing the result of any future improvement in him as a solution. That will help me remain sane and support him better.

Yes, you are. Sometimes being a caregiver is LONELY. Because there are things you cannot talk about with your patient. I don't sit around with my parent talking about how much I think Alzheimer sucks or how tired I am of having to monitor him so he doesn't get into trouble when we're out in town. That I wish a trip to get grocery was just about the food and not one eye on him to make sure nothing wigs him out.

He's not the guy for that. That's stuff I deal with in caregiver group with other caregivers. It's not a load to place on my patient's head.

Think about seeking your own support systems.

I am convinced that he wants to work on these issues, but from what I see, actually doing things that would result in change are not comfortable and he often doesn't do them.

Leave him be and let him own it. He can suggest things himself. Or he can work out a plan with his counselor to address that. Growth happens at the edges of the comfort zone. That is what growth IS. Going beyond before.

You suggesting/pushing things? I wonder if that is you trying to solve your anxiety or urgency through him doing things? If so?

How about solving them more directly? If you are sad and need a hug? Just ask for the hug. Tell him what to DO.

Or just deal with one thing together and leave the rest for counseling. If you want to focus on increasing his emotional vocabulary? And he is willing so long as it isn't "too much?"

Go to the kid stuff. Todd Parr feeling flash cards. Flip through those once or twice and then call it a night. He gets to feel good because it wasn't "too hard" and he wasn't expected to be "perfect" -- all he had to do was go through them once or twice with you. Doable.

You get to feel good because you see him working on expanding his vocabulary in a concrete way.

If you bump into a situation later where he cannot put his finger on what emotion he's feeling? You have this tool in the house now. He can flip through the cards to find it. Or if it is a combo of feelings, pick out the 2-3 main feelings.

That might help him break out of paralysis. So you can continue without getting "clogged up" in this front part of "How do you feel? What happening/is wrong that is making you feel this way?" so you can move on to the next step of problem solving with "let's think of ways to solve this, then pick the best way."

You could also draw your line in the sand to yourself. "THIS minimum must be happening in this relationship, or I cannot be in this relationship." It's not fun to think about, but you need to maintain your own sanity.

I think he finds it very difficult to act outside his comfort zone - which is basically a silence on anything remotely imperfect.

Perfectionism can be paralyzing. That might be something else he talks to his counselor about. How to relax and be more ok with “good enough, doesn't have to be perfect.” Sounds like his inner critic voice is REALLY loud.

I never really know how he feels about anything unless I ask about that specifically.

Then you know how to solve it. You ask specifically.

My spouse is not a patient. But he gets mentally fried. If I ask him "How are you?" when he gets home he cannot answer me. So instead I ask a series of questions.

• How is your body? Are you hungry? Tired? Something else?
• How is your mind? Stressed? Tired if thinking? Something else?
• How is your heart? Sad, mad, happy, scared?
• How is your spirit? Uplifted? Down in the dumps?

When I ask more specific things, he can answer me. That's like taking a multiple choice test. When I ask too broad he cannot answer. That's like taking an essay test and staring at "blank paper."

If you need to change HOW you ask so you get better results? You could change your approach.

but find a way to not feel horribly ditched when I need him to be emotionally present - he tries. He is not able. For the most part I can accept a good deal of "It is how it is, some parts are going to suck till they get better" but at times it is just very lonely and hurtful.

You cannot take comfort in the fact that he loves you so much that even though he's not fully able, he tries ANYWAY?

Change your expectations. Because you cannot have both (what gets done by who) and (how it gets done). Pick one. If you want him to just try, be ok with him not always getting it done perfect. If you want it perfect? Then maybe he's not the guy for the job.

• If you feel sad and need a hug? Don't expect him to intuit it from your tone, body language, or facial express. He's got weak radar. Just ask for a hug.
  
• If you need someone to be emotionally present without you having to tell him what to DO? Why turn to the person in your community who has weakest radar? Turn to a friend or relative or other person for that. I don't call my plumber for dental work expecting awesome dental service.

The bottom line? You might not always get “two way street” relating like you wish to have. It may come close – depending on the severity of his issues.

You have to decide if this relationship is worthwhile or not and if yes, you have to decide to accept doing some “caregiver stuff” as part of the price of admission. You might also have to accept some degree of loneliness, some degree of frustrations, some degree of not taking things personally yourself. You will have to adjust your expectations to something more realistic for dating a mental health patient.

You have my sympathy. It's tough to think about. But you have to think these things out as you work on changing your way of going so the outcome can be different.

Galagirl

 

[anamikanon]

Thank you GalaGirl. Your posts have been tremendously helpful. Just absorbing this one rather than focusing on replying. Everything you have said is useful. Thank you very much.

The domain for the article on Emotional Flooding appears to have expired recently, but the article is still available in the Google Cache.

 

[anamikanon]

I feel a big thing here, is if Spexy agrees with what you say. If Spexy reads this stuff and goes that's not me, then one of you thinks one thing whilst the other thinks another and a psychologist will find it hard to change that viewpoint.

I don't know if he will actually speak up here. I would definitely like him to, and he has said he will try to, but there can be a gap between his intentions and finding the words/courage to state his view/feelings.

I have tried to state this as much as possible based on discussions we already have had and he has at least stated agreement with in the past, but sometimes what he really feels can turn out to be much different later. It is something I am still learning to deal with as part of his process of feeling safe enough to speak up.

 

[anamikanon]

Does anyone know online support groups for caregivers?

I have reservations discussing his issues on forums or with people where our real identities are known, because he already has a problem being seen as someone with problems. Also, I am a somewhat publicly known person - not anyone famous, but more like a lot more people know me than I know them, and I wouldn't want any risk of such information ever being used to hurt him.

This also goes for trusted friends, who see us together and appreciate how we are together. If appearing perfect matters so much to him, I don't want to make things he is vulnerable about known to people whose opinions matter to him.

Edit: I don't care so much for myself in that sense. I am fine being a person with flaws. Even flaws that are known to others. I am a work in progress and as long as I'm working, I have no shame about it. The problem is people I'd trust to discuss this with knowing him. Knowing him, he'd be like "so now everyone knows what a fuck up I am" - AND IT IS NOT TRUE.

 

[kdt26417]

It sounds to me like spexy has a thin skin. I can relate to that. Maybe it helps to say things like, "I'm just disagreeing, I don't mean to put you down." To which you could follow up with some kind of praise for the good things he does and/or the stuff you agree with. But then I am not a doctor, so you'll have to take my amateur advice with a grain of salt.

 

[spexy]

Trying to put it all together

Thanks for all the detailed and insightful responses on this thread. To be honest, my worldview for the longest time has been one where I don't confront problems as long as I can keep things moving by working around them. Where a workaround does not appear readily available, I tend to procrastinate. For the last two years, I've juggled a full-time job in one location and a LDR, often going over the edge on either just to keep things afloat.

And then, when things began drifting between anamikanon and me, I got into this affair with someone located close at hand. So carelessly did I toss around lies and deceptions that I did not even think how much I was risking jail time. Yet, anamikanon persisted with me, chose not to throw me out on my ass.

In nearly a year since, I have still continued procrastinating talking truthfully about my side of the story. It was convenient to do so - I had my hands full at work, family visits, so on and so forth. I realize all of this is largely responsible for driving anamikanon into the incoherence she has expressed in her post.

I do not contest anyone's concluding that I am, at long last, trying to repair something I've avoided for so long out of fear that I've hit rock bottom. That if I don't work at fixing this relationship, I don't really stand a chance at ever making any relationship work, whether professional or personal.

My own problems with truth-telling, with not wanting to be seen as a failure, with wanting to always appear perfect, are things I will be starting a new thread on. I also have booked an appointment to see a psychiatrist.

I have a habit of saying I don't reserve much hope for myself, but it is only recently I realize how much I believe that.

 

[anamikanon]

And then, when things began drifting between anamikanon and me, I got into this affair with someone located close at hand.

Frankly, all through and even now, I don't have a problem with that relationship. The manner you handled it in was a problem, but frankly after the "year from hell"*** on my domestic front, I completely understand that you were not at all eager to be here. Heck I didn't want to be here myself. A local relationship that brought you joy after all that constant dealing with medical emergencies...... no brainer. Enjoy! You needed a break badly. I just wished it didn't have to be cheating and all the resulting pain when you full well knew I wouldn't have a problem.

So carelessly did I toss around lies and deceptions that I did not even think how much I was risking jail time. Yet, anamikanon persisted with me, chose not to throw me out on my ass.

I didn't dump you because unlike you, I wasn't blind with NRE. Even when you hurt me, I knew what our relationship was more than this temporary insanity that hit. Make no mistake, I'd dump you immediately if I thought you meant me any malice. Or we would discuss this crazy and hurtful behavior once you seemed less intoxicated on hormones. Which we did. Endlessly.

I can't honestly say I wouldn't have dumped you, but definitely, I would want us to be face to face and talk without the influence of any brain altering chemicals first before any irreversible decisions. Before that talk happened, you were showing how appalled you were with your own behavior and starting to make amends that I was convinced were sincere.

That is how I didn't kick you out on your ass. You did your best to ensure I didn't. It isn't half as doormat as you are making it sound. I didn't take crap from you as a part of giving you a chance. You stopped the crap. You worked hard to get that second chance, and then you made sure you didn't fuck up after that. Yes, the lies and concealment of what had already happened continued - but you gave me enough truth and sincerity for me to start healing and I knew that this was very difficult for you. And you have been truthful going forward.

In nearly a year since, I have still continued procrastinating talking truthfully about my side of the story. It was convenient to do so - I had my hands full at work, family visits, so on and so forth. I realize all of this is largely responsible for driving anamikanon into the incoherence she has expressed in her post.

I am glad you feel able to speak about it now. Truth is very important. Even when it is terrifying.

I do not contest anyone's concluding that I am, at long last, trying to repair something I've avoided for so long out of fear that I've hit rock bottom.

This is a perception glitch, love. You started making amends (24 hours) before you were even done fucking up (weeks). I have the emails to prove it and I will send them to you if this doesn't serve to remind you. You have helped me heal, you have reassured me in a hundred ways. Every time you found a way to improve our relationship, you did your best to take it. And now you are overcoming your fears to speak the truth too, in spite of it being terrifying for you, because you see that it is necessary and important. We have a stronger relationship now than ever before.

This is just your guilt and sorrow blaming you into believing you did nothing to repair the hurt in our relationship. This is a new step you are taking. Yet another way you are working to help us recover. It is completely wrong to say you are trying to repair at long last like you haven't done anything all through. Good part of a relationship conducted mostly on chat is that I can prove this to you in as much detail as you wish. You can verify for yourself too.

I think you lose sight of the things you did and get tunnel vision about things you failed at.

My own problems with truth-telling, with not wanting to be seen as a failure, with wanting to always appear perfect, are things I will be starting a new thread on. I also have booked an appointment to see a psychiatrist.

I have a habit of saying I don't reserve much hope for myself, but it is only recently I realize how much I believe that.

Hug. I know how difficult this is for you. We will get through this too. I already see you take a significant step today.

***"Year from hell" is the period from mid-2015 to mid-2016 when my domestic life was a mess of medical issues and emergencies including caring for a drying father, multiple surgeries for son and terrified mother with mental issues. Spexy was flying here to help all the time at cost to his own job, wallet and mental and physical stress. Both of us were fed up and exhausted with issues in the relationship being ignored in favour of firefighting.

 

[JK40]

I am the last person to give advice on things like this..heck I can't even get my own head around some relationship subjects myself

But.... wow.... it is so heart warming to read about and get a sense of the love and devotion in your relationship!
Heads firmly screwed on I would say. Fantastic aporoaches at resolving your hiccups etc.

I think a lot of us can, and have, learnt a lot from these posts.