Double standards in safe sex practices?

M

MsEmotional

Member
Is this a common thing in polyamory? I seem to have a lot of issues around partners being overly cautious when it comes to my involvement with other people, but totally fine when it comes to any risks they take with me directly.

Glasses is always really concerned about getting an STD from Ponytail, despite the fact that Ponytail has not had sex with anyone except me and Glasses for over a year. And we all had clean test results within the last few months He gets really anxious about it because Ginger has partners that aren’t 100% up front about who else they are seeing and so Ginger uses high levels of barrier protection with all his partners. Glasses thinks that the high level of barrier protection (gloves, condoms, dental dams, etc) should be applied to everyone (meaning Ponytail), but is totally fine with occasionally having sex with me without a condom. If Glasses is so concerned with STI risk shouldn’t he just use condoms with me consistently?

Ponytail, on the other hand, is convinced that the fact that Glasses and I occasionally go without condoms is extremely risky. He’s not as worried about STI’s, but is convinced that Glasses is playing fast and loose with my fertility and is going to get me pregnant. Because Glasses doesn’t want more kids and Ponytail wants a baby, this is a sensitive issue for Ponytail. I have explained that Glasses doesn’t ejaculate in me and that we only do it during my non-fertile times of the month (I have been charting for many years), but Ponytail still feels the double standard — that Glasses is okay with risking me getting pregnant when it is his sperm but not when it is Ponytail’s. Shouldn’t Ponytail be okay with me using the methods of birth control that have worked for me and Glasses for 9+ years of being together?

And all this is after, of course, the whole issue of Laptop and his girlfriend breaking up because of double standards in safe sex practices.

For what it is worth, I am okay with everything that I am doing with both Glasses and Ponytail. I am comfortable with the low levels of risk that I am taking with regard to STIs with Ponytail and the low levels of pregnancy risk that I am taking by having minimal condom-free sex with Glasses. Is it wrong of me to feel like, knowing my risk tolerance, each of them should be more concerned about the risks they want to take with me and less concerned about the risks that I take with my other partners?
 
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I think only a few people would happy of thinking about their partner being 'risky', it's easier to push the issue off to the responsibility their metamour.
 
Hi MsEmotional,

It does sound like you are facing some double standards. That must be aggravating. It also sounds like Glasses and Ponytail are engaged in a tug of war, and you're the rope. It would help if they'd back off, but I don't know how to get them to do that. :( I suppose you can draw your own hard boundaries, of what you are and are not willing to do, and they'll have to decide whether they'll honor said boundaries. No easy answers ...

With sympathy,
Kevin T.
 
Noyse said:
I think only a few people would happy of thinking about their partner being 'risky', it's easier to push the issue off to the responsibility their metamour.
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I think that's my point, though. I feel like we are all being fairly responsible, so why are they worrying about this at all? Is my risk tolerance just really really high?
 
kdt26417 said:
Hi MsEmotional,

It does sound like you are facing some double standards. That must be aggravating. It also sounds like Glasses and Ponytail are engaged in a tug of war, and you're the rope. It would help if they'd back off, but I don't know how to get them to do that. :( I suppose you can draw your own hard boundaries, of what you are and are not willing to do, and they'll have to decide whether they'll honor said boundaries. No easy answers ...

With sympathy,
Kevin T.
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Yeah, I tried that with Glasses awhile back. I said that I wasn't willing to use latex gloves for every form of hand-genital contact with Ponytail, but that if he felt safer using them with me, I'd be willing to do that for him. Not surprisingly, he hasn't opted for using latex gloves with me.
 
With my partner and my partners in the past I can only choose to practice the safe sex with them that feel comfortable with. I cannot dictate what they do. Now if i believe they are having risky sex then I can change my practices. I assume things happen and there is always risk. So testing often is a must and practing safe sex that feel comfortable with is what I do.

If one of your partners is not ok with the level with sex you are having with someone else then he can change his safe sex practices with you.
 
MsEmotional said:
I think that's my point, though. I feel like we are all being fairly responsible, so why are they worrying about this at all? Is my risk tolerance just really really high?
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All ya'll are allowed to have different risk tolerances, there's no shame in it.
 
Let me reframe what I understand in my own words so I know I get it right. You correct me if I am getting it wrong, ok?

  • Glasses is always really concerned about getting an STD from Ponytail.
  • Glasses thinks that I should be using a high level of barrier protection (gloves, condoms, dental dams, etc) with Ponytail.
  • Glasses is totally fine with occasionally having sex with me without a condom.
  • If Glasses is so concerned with STI risk shouldn’t he just use condoms/barriers with me and his other partners consistently to protect his own body? Rather than telling me what barriers to use on my body when I share sex with other people?

Yes. Rather than trying to manage your body he could manage his own.

  • Ponytail thinks Glasses should use condoms with me since Glasses does not want more children.
  • Ponytail is convinced that Glasses is playing fast and loose with my fertility and is going to get me pregnant.
  • (Unspoken maybe -- Ponytail envies that I will share unprotected sex with Glasses and not him because Ponytail still really wants a baby. I don't want one.)

He can be concerned, but it's YOUR body that would be pregnant. So the one responsible for protecting your body would be YOU, not him.
Ponytail could manage his own body rather than worrying about your body or Glasses' body. And if you don't want to have more children, or if you only want to have children by Glasses -- Ponytail has to accept that the one in charge of you body is you.

Is it wrong of me to feel like, knowing my risk tolerance, each of them should be more concerned about the risks they want to take with me and less concerned about the risks that I take with my other partners?
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I think every person is in charge of their own body and where it goes. These two seem to be trying to manage your body for you instead of managing their own bodies. Or making it be like a "turf war" and the "turf" is your body. So I could understand being annoyed with them.

If they have a problem sharing sex with you because you are doing Y with your body with other partners?

They could either use barriers with you or just not share sex with you any more. They could manage their OWN body and their OWN peace of mind that way rather than projecting their stuff on to you.

You could state your boundary. Something like

"Please stop putting your stuff on me. Concern yourself with the risks you want to take with your body, and let me concern myself with the risks I want to take with my body. I am willing to tell you my safer sex practices and sex health info so you can make informed decisions for yourself if you want to share sex with me. I am willing to discuss our shared sex practices. I am NOT willing for you to manage my body for me."

I think that's my point, though. I feel like we are all being fairly responsible, so why are they worrying about this at all? Is my risk tolerance just really really high?
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If they want to be worrying? Let them. It's their worry. They can worry in circles if they want. Not esp productive, but hey... it's their heads. They can do what they want in their heads.

If they aren't willing to make changes themselves? Or take personal responsibility for their worries? And are shoving all their stuff over on to you? You don't have to pick up that baggage. It doesn't belong to you.

Like don't bother to ask why they worry. Accept they do, and leave it to them. At this time, it's not your concern. They can worry in circles on their own. You don't have to be listening to that.

If/when they want to suggest ACTUAL solutions or ACTUAL changes in the shared sex practices, ok. Listen and talk then.

But listening to endless worry circles? I don't enjoy listening to things going round and round and going nowhere. You don't seem to like it either. Since you are in charge of your body and your own peace of mind? Say "no, I don't want to listen to that" if it starts to go off into circle conversations again. You don't have to participate in circle convo.

Galagirl
 
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So what's your risk level when it comes to your partners' other partners? (Just imagine.)

Yes, I think the "double standard" must be fairly common in people's minds.
It's one thing to expose yourself to a person you know personally.
Then even if they do happen to give you a disease ... it's easy to see why you connected with them in the first place.
It's another to have yourself be exposed to metamours and their partners and their partners' partners ... suddenly it's like you're connected to the whole world. That's a scary thought. It's natural to want to put barriers between "your" inner circle and the whole world. Natural, but unrealistic.

We must all make the work to assess the risk correctly.
 
It is your body you can share you body with whomever however you would like. You have been upfront with your views and safer sex practices with your partners. Now they can do whatever they like with that information.

One thing regarding children Ponytail needs to remember is that if he fathers a child with you while you are legally married to Glasses the child is automatically Glasses legal child and all legal and financial burdens will fall into his lap in the eyes of the court.
 
You're definitely seeing double standards here. And that's because it's much easier for them to feel like you should be more cautious with someone else than for them to adjust how they interact sexually with you. Many people would rather relax the restrictions with the 1 or 2 partners that they have the most sexual interactions with and then increase the protections stemming outward from there... but that's certainly not REQUIRED. It's really just a very couple-privledge based line of thinking.

Basically, it sounds to me like the practices that you're engaging in are pretty safe and it doesn't sound to me like you're being particularly risky. Also, you're allowed to practice safer sex differently with different partners based on each partners' individual risk profile and risk exposure. Your body, your choice, and then they can choose to respond accordingly.

My suggestion is to have the conversation once, make sure they're 100% clear on how you're choosing to practice safer sex, and then if they complain about it further, say that you're not going to just listen to them complain about it. If they want to ask questions because they are seeking clarification? ok. If they are seeking to change your mind, then you're not interested in having that discussion.

I get the impression that you let both of your partners complain to you about your other partners far too much rather than just shutting that crap down and saying "enough, I'm not listening to this." For your own sanity, you might need to put your foot down more.
 
Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the feedback. I feel empowered to set firmer boundaries about how much (if anything) I am willing to compromise on.
 
Tinwen said:
So what's your risk level when it comes to your partners' other partners? (Just imagine.)
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I don’t expect anything of anyone else that I wouldn’t be willing to do as well. As long as everyone discloses test results and uses condoms for penetrative sex (either with me, with others, or both), I am chill.
 
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Dagferi said:
One thing regarding children Ponytail needs to remember is that if he fathers a child with you while you are legally married to Glasses the child is automatically Glasses legal child and all legal and financial burdens will fall into his lap in the eyes of the court.
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Not really. At least in my state, presumption of paternity is easily overturned with some paperwork that you file when you are in the hospital.
 
MsEmotional said:
Not really. At least in my state, presumption of paternity is easily overturned with some paperwork that you file when you are in the hospital.
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In my state a married woman is explicitly legally required to list the husband’s name as father. I think it’s even a separate form for married vs single birth mothers. [edited to correct] Paperwork can be submitted after the initial birth certificate is issued, with the named father voluntarily relenquishing rights and duties of parenthood, and the bio father assuming them (I think without need for DNA testing, though I can’t recall - seems like it involved actual court proceedings) for a non-spouse father of a married birth mother to appear on a revised birth certificate.

This requirement was the “last straw” reason Woof and I finally divorced.
 
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Ravenscroft said:
So... what happens when a biological "non-father" contests this claim? A presumptive father might spend years supporting & raising a child (& even be required under law to do so) only to find he's declared to not be the "real" father, right?
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I am confused — who do you mean by a “biological ‘non-father’”?
 
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