Emotional deadlock

Maca's whole world was destroyed by my needs. How I avoid that now is that I don't push. I try to find the small steps that lead in a direction. For example, with dating. I don't have overnights with GG.

We've agreed that a date night every week or two works for now; working towards once a week.

That's not what I'd like to see it as, but it's more than what I had before; so it's a fair starting point.

Maca knows it's not fulfilling my needs, so he continues to work towards giving me more.

As for affection with GG in front of him-- I'd like to just do what's comfortable for me. But nothing is comfortable for him. So it started with just a hug goodnight. Now we've added in hugs anytime, and periodically those "hugs" are holding each other for several minutes as we talk. We've also added kisses to the good night hug.

One little baby step at a time.

We started the polyamory trail September 25th, 2009. It's a rough road to start down when dealing with insecurities and jealousy.
 
Joyce, forgive me if I repeat myself, but there are some really great threads on here about creating a poly foundation, and what lessons some of us have learned, having done this for awhile. You can find them by doing a search, typing in "foundations" or "lessons." I have found them really helpful. Maybe you will too.
 
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Hi Robin and Joyce,

It sounds like a rollercoaster ride for the two of you! I wish you the very best.

In reading your posts, I haven't heard much about Joyce's Jax, but from what is present, I have to be honest and say that I'm disappointed in him. He is married. You are both married. If I were considering a married woman for myself as a girlfriend, I would want to go out of my way to make sure that her relationship with her husband was strong and that they were both comfortable with a possible new relationship entering into the dynamic.

Without knowing details, it does not seem like Jax has been doing very much to ensure that you are both in a good place to allow this relationship to continue. He has some responsibility in all this too.
 
A quick reply.

In my experience, Jax always did the best he could to understand and support us. The beautiful thing here is that Jax was once in the same position Robin is in now. They really seem to understand each other, and have became friends. :)

Jax always supports the choices we make. Right now, for example, he respects the choice we made about me not seeing him for a while. He never meant to destroy our marriage, and in my optimistic opinion, that is not going to happen.

I think in this case I am the one who was very enthusiastic. Currently I'm trying to lead that enthusiasm in the right direction. :)
 
Thanks for the clarification, Joyce. It does sound like Jax is supportive.

I know that for me, I would want to be having an honest conversation with the married partner of a woman I was considering as a girlfriend. And if I saw the rollercoaster ride happening that seems to have been happening with the two of you, I would want to apologize to the other guy for the pain caused and offer any way of helping the situation that I could, rather than just leaving it to the two of you to sort it out, and then jumping right in when a green light is given. That's just me, anyway. Maybe Jax is being more supportive than the perspective that the posts here have been giving.

A question I have for Robin is whether he feels like Jax is doing all he can to ensure that the two of you are okay.
 
I think it's best if Robin tells us something about his experience. He knows it best, of course.

Very soon Jax will join us here on the forum. He told me (after getting told that it was okay to do some reading here) that he is creating an account.
He thought it was a good thing to read more. :)
 
Hi polyexplorer,

I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, we do talk sometimes, and he always says he understands me. There is definitely a level of trust and friendship between us. That's good, because it means there's something to build on.

On the other hand, I do not feel supported. He might understand, but his actions haven't shown much consideration. But then again, I haven't been communicating my needs very well, and if even Joyce failed to read between the lines, I can't really expect him to manage that. Or can I? Like I said: mixed feelings.

A big part of the problem is that on the occasions we talked I have communicated rationally that things were okay. Not only to him, also to Joyce. Much less frequently have I communicated rationally that things were not okay. Most of the signs that things were not okay were emotional: bouts of crying, bad dreams, bad moods, needing distance between Joyce and myself. I once told Joyce that she should listen to what I said, not what happened when we would have major drama. So she did. But I think because of this, too many of the emotional signs got ignored. And I think Jax followed Joyce's lead in this.

It's actually quite simple. There's a very big communication FAIL that has been going on for some time. But we're working on that now, and I'm slowly getting back my belief that we can actually do this. :)

Robin
 
Hi Robin,

I really appreciate your awareness around the confused communication

I am in a situation where my wife has been struggling with the concept of polyamory. One minute, she expresses that she wants me to be in another relationship, and the next minute her emotions show me that she is not coping. She struggles to be honest and open about her needs and desires. This does make things more difficult for everyone.

However, the other person involved, who I have a deep connection with, cannot pursue that connection when she knows my wife is hurting as a result. Even if I wanted to pursue the connection, she wouldn't. I admire this in her, and I know my wife feels supported by her (sometimes more supported by her than by me-- but I'm working on that!).
.
I appreciate that you want this to work. That is good. Let it take whatever time it takes. While each involved still has hope, there is hope! Trust the timing, that it will be the right timing.
 
polyexplorer said:
I really appreciate your awareness around the confused communication.
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Thank you. It has taken us some time to see this, and the role it has played and is playing. But we do have a handle on where exactly things are going wrong, now, and I'm glad for that.

polyexplorer said:
I am in a situation where my wife has been struggling with the concept of poly. One minute she expresses that she wants me to be in another relationship, and the next minute her emotions show me that she is not coping. She struggles to be honest and open about her needs and desires. This does make things more difficult for everyone.
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In what context do you use the word "honest" here? I have been accused of not being "honest." While I may not have known my exact thoughts and deepest feelings at the moment, that does not mean that I was dishonest if, at a later time, I get a better picture of myself.

It sounds like your wife has the same thing as I do: rationally she agrees, but emotionally she isn't ready yet. There are two different levels of communication. Is that true? How do you handle that?

polyexplorer said:
However, the other person involved, who I have a deep connection with, cannot pursue that connection when she knows my wife is hurting as a result. Even if I wanted to pursue the connection, she wouldn't. I admire this in her and I know my wife feels supported by her (sometimes more supported by her than by me-- but I'm working on that one!).
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Yes, that's admirable, indeed, and more likely to get the three of you anywhere than when she would be indifferent to your wife's needs.

I recognize some of your wife's feelings of sometimes being more supported by her than by you. It's hard to feel supported by someone who wants to do something that is scaring or hurting you. Some people in my social circle say that that in itself is not supportive. But I disagree. While it is not protective, it can be supportive. It's a delicate balance. When you protect someone too much, you aren't getting anywhere, but when you're pushing them too hard or too fast, you aren't getting anywhere, either.

If Jax would say, "Hey, I can see this is hard for you. Let's stop," I'd feel better, because I would feel safe. For now. But it's not a viable long-term solution to anything. So I'm not upset because this is happening. I know I need a good kick in the ass now and then. But I'm upset because it is happening too fast, or I should say, has been happening. We're definitely on a track where we can go at slower pace. That alone is making me feel much better already.

polyexplorer said:
I appreciate that you want this to work. Let it take whatever time it takes. While each involved still has hope, there is hope! Trust the timing that it will be the right timing.
Click to expand...

Yeah, trust and timing: key words of 2011.

Regards,
Robin
 
erithacus said:
It sounds like your wife has the same thing I do: rationally she agrees, but emotionally she isn't ready yet. There are two different levels of communication. Is that true? How do you handle that?
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I was also in this position when I first joined this forum: rationally I believed that accepting my husband's girlfriend was the right thing to do, but emotionally I couldn't handle it. Over several months, things have slowly changed, and now I do accept it emotionally (though I still do get occasional attacks of jealousy).

Some of the things that helped me were: lots and lots of talking about it, getting to know his girlfriend and seeing that she is not a threat, spending a lot of time reading on this forum, and a lot of introspection on my part (i.e., facing my own insecurities). But the most important thing was just giving it time. It's such a radical change that you can't accept it overnight. But I think if you do the necessary work, and give it plenty of time, then there's a good chance that you will accept it eventually.

My advice to your wife would be to give you lots of love, gratitude and reassurance. When I saw that my husband having this girlfriend was making our marriage better rather than worse, it made it a lot easier to accept her. Best wishes to you both!
 
polyexplorer said:
However, the other person involved, who I have a deep connection with, cannot pursue that connection when she knows Joyce is hurting as a result. Even if I wanted to pursue the connection, she wouldn't. I admire this in her and I know Joyce feels supported by her (sometimes more supported by her than by me-- but I'm working on that one!).
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I love hearing about this type of concern in potential new partners. It is this kind of extended consideration to Joyce that could possibly carry over to make her an excellent metamour for your wife. Hats off to her!
 
Good stuff! I really love reading about people's processes in polyamory, when it's about consideration/empathy for others, respect, attempts at bettering communication. Good foundations are being established, it seems. The makings of a great relationship dynamic, I think. :) Thanks for including us in that by making yourself vulnerable and talking about it here.
 
erithacus said:
But then again, I haven't been communicating my needs too well, and if even Joyce failed to read between the lines, I can't really expect him to manage that. Or can I?
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Nope, you can't, but not "just because." The reason is that it's unrealistic in any situation to expect someone to manage to read your mind. Sometimes a person will manage it, but expecting it is setting yourself and the other person up for failure.

The key to ensuring that "miscommunication" is kept to a minimum, is ensuring that you clearly and succinctly state what you need, what you feel, what you are trying to express. Sometimes that is a pain in the ass. I'm not unaware of that one! I think we all fail at times. Sometimes I want one or the other of the guys to just know what I'm feeling. After 18 years with one and 13 with the other-- "Damn it. Can't you just know me?!"

But the truth is, we're all individuals, and sometimes we can see what the other needs without being told, sometimes we can't.

Hugs. You sound like you are all really working on yourselves. That's awesome!
 
LovingRadiance said:
Nope, you can't, but not "just because." The reason is that it's unrealistic in any situation to expect someone to manage to read your mind. Sometimes a person will manage it-but expecting it is setting yourself and the other person up for a failure.

The key to ensuring that "miscommunication" is kept to a minimum, is ensuring that you clearly and succinctly state what you need, what you feel, what you are trying to express. Sometimes that is a pain in the ass. I'm not unaware of that one! I think we all fail at times. Sometimes I want one or the other of the guys to just know what I'm feeling. After 18 years with one and 13 with the other-- "Damn it. Can't you just know me?!" But the truth is that we're each individuals and sometimes we can see what the other needs without being told, sometimes we can't.

You sound like you are all really working on yourselves. That's awesome!
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The problem is that we all have our own shit to navigate through. Expecting others to understand every subtle nuance is just not realistic. I barely know myself, let alone others. If a person tells me about themselves every time they learn something new, then I have a better chance at guessing. I still need their prompts though, really. I am never going to get it entirely.

I like to tell people exactly what I require to feel like my needs are met, the moment I know myself. I say it with humour and with the understanding all around that if they can't give me what I require, then I have to be okay with that. In turn, I give what I can too, when I am told what that is.

A lot of the time people are passive about asking. I don't do well with that. I do much better with someone saying, "RP, please do this for me so that I can feel this." Then I can either get on it, or tell them that I will be able to next week, or I can do it now, and then do it, or that I can't do that for them and why, if I know why, that is. Otherwise, I will buy some time and get back to them.

I find this works really well to feeling satisfied in life. When people don't tell me how they feel and what they require to get their needs met, then I don't sweat it and leave it in their court. I figure that they can learn by example, because I will be requesting of them soon enough.
 
Thanks Robin, for your comments.

You make a really good point about honesty. I hadn't thought of it this way. You are right, you are being honest, as honest as you can be with what you know of yourself at that time. My wife is the same. She is being as honest as she can be with what she knows of herself at that time.

It is not easy coping with a situation where you rationally agree but emotionally struggle. Being open about your feelings is helpful. I want to know how my wife feels, but I also don't want her to necessarily project her feelings on to me to fix it. For example, I'm feeling jealous, so you have to do something to fix it. Being open about how you are feeling is important, and then discussing the implications of what this means and what you need in all of this.

Also, as has been mentioned many times, time does amazing things too.

Mono, thank you for your words. I agree that the kind of consideration that has been shown has been inspiring to me, too.
 
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