Emotional Processing, Choosing Your Timing and Checking in With Partners

L

LondonGuy

New member
I've known I was poly for something close to 3/4 years, but it's been tricky as for 1 year of that I was dating a girl who was not comfortable with me dating others (despite her having 2 boyfriends). Things are over with her now, but the experience has left me quite worried of how my actions are impacting on partners.

For the last 18 months I've had just one partner, M. I've had 2 other first dates that have led to nothing and she has been wonderfully supportive of both of these.

I've always approached it with the following rules; I will tell you everything ahead of time. I will not kiss on a first meeting, I will not go further than a kiss on a second meeting, I would like full freedom on a third meeting (my discretion). She's been cool with these rules and has helped support it really well.

Then this week has just been nuts.

So I went to a local munch on Monday and met a cool new girl, K. We both got on really well; we're both Maths Geeks with similar interests. I drove back to see M afterwards and told her all about meeting K, she was really supportive.

Then on Tuesday I had a job interview and was free afterwards. I had friended K on Fetlife after the event and mentioned this when chatting with her, we realised we were both free afterwards and I would be driving past her town on the way back from my interview. It seemed logical to meet for a coffee.

Now I wanted to tell M but she was at work, she has a very busy stressful job and can't always answer her phone or text lots. I tried messaging her over lunch but she seemed slow to reply. I knew she'd been cool with other dates before but I also didn't want to drop this on her via a text message while she was at work. I didn't feel that would be fair.

So I decided to go for coffee, it was only coffee after all, and I decided to call M properly straight after she finished work. She understood my reasoning, but said she still would have preferred I text her ahead of time. I guess on that point I know for next time, but hopefully I haven't dented that trust too badly.

- Interestingly what does everyone else think is a workable realistic pattern for this sort of thing? Telling partners ahead of planning something with someone new, telling partners ahead of going to something with someone new, telling partners as soon as possible after meeting up with someone new or maybe even only telling someone only if it went positively?
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Anyway tonight was another munch and I realised K was going to be there, she realised the same and offered me a lift. It was cool. So I phoned M ahead of time this time, realising there was extra significance of it being a munch if the girl I'd met up for coffee with was going to be giving me a lift there and back.

On the phone M then said "I hope you have fun this evening". So there's me thinking, this is the third time of me meeting K are you endorsing what I think you're endorsing?

I asked "Do you mean you hope I have fun or do you mean you hope I have fun" - I don't know what I was hoping the answer to that would be. I guess I just needed the clarification of where the boundaries lay and how M was coping with it all. Me moving into second date territory within polyamory was new territory for her and I was doing this a day after other stuff. I sensed she was a bit frustrated with me asking.

So over the course of the evening we had a great time. Lots of laughing/teasing going on between us. A definite connection there.

But I did some reflecting in my head too in the quieter moments. I came to realise that in the space of 3 days I had basically asked M to contemplate me dating someone else and it becoming a serious thing. I asked her to contemplate all that with 1 conversation in person and 2 rushed conversations over the phone following a busy stress filled day at work.

I pushed too much on to her and was totally unfair. I apologised for this unreservedly when I got home.

I also spoke with K about this afterwards and said I liked her but wanted to slow down. Three times seeing each other in three days was mostly coincidence but it also had been a lot of fun. Fortunately K was ok with taking it slow.

- Also as another aside, K and I seem to share a similar view on where we think things could go in future. I see M as being my life partner; we've talked about planning our life together. I don't prescribe to the idea of hierarchies in the sense of prioritising one person over another, or in the sense of giving veto rights or in the sense of treating "lower classified" partners or metamours as second class citizens. But I do think they can be used to accurately describe your expectations from a relationship; the definition I love is to imagine you are offered the PERFECT job, it's enough money to support you and any partners, metamours and dependents you might have and it's everything you ever wanted, but it's the other side of the country.

Your primary says: "Great!! When do we move?"
Your secondary says: "Great!! When can I visit?"
Your tertiary partner says: "Great!! I'm really happy for you, I hope our paths cross again"

(I apologise here as I was told this by word of mouth so can't credit the author)

Under this model a person could have multiple partners at each level and it ties nothing to vetos or the level of emotion involved. M is definitely a primary for me under this model. I wouldn't oppose other primary relationships developing in the future, but would rather it happened when I was more fully settled long term. For now I'm looking more for secondary/tertiary type relationships.
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When I talked K through this definition she said it was the best definition she'd come across. She also said she can't offer more than a secondary relationship due to her moving away later this year for her studies. So we appear to be on the same page with what we can offer too.

Anyway I just wanted to share this reflection publicly because it feels like an epiphany, it feels like I've suddenly realised I was being a massive dick. But realising this and peeling back the effects of my actions has helped me realise that she is just generally an all round wonderful and supporting girlfriend. I'm a very lucky man.
 
I really cannot fathom how you see yourself as having been a dick. Then again, I also think you've set up some overly-restrictive rules on yourself. I couldn't be in a relationship where I'd feel obligated to report in and basically ask permission to see someone for coffee, or make sure it's okay if I call someone up, kiss or make-out with them, or "have fun." I would never give one person with whom I am in a relationship any say over how I conduct my relationships with other people. It all just seems like a lot of overkill to me -- I think you are so overly generous, to a fault, that you are the exact opposite of being a dick. I just hope your gf truly appreciates your efforts and never takes you for granted.
 
I'm fine with the whole 3 date thing, it only lasts 3 dates and was self imposed by me. It's not so much about asking permission as just saying - this might happen/is going to happen.

M is very supportive, but people have breaking points and I guess by asking her to process too much in too short a space of time I was asking too much. Expecting someone to process that many emotions that quickly is a bit of a dick move. Especially as I only had opportunity to tell her over the phone. The developments just kept coming as an onslaught.
 
I think complete freedom on 3rd date can work for both with no problems - you just encountered some insecurity about "what is a date". I think if you view this as more of a boundary then a promis (like "I don't have sex on the first date, because I want to see beforehand if my partner is ok"), then even better. Whatever "rules" suit you both.

I think you going right about this. There might be a new relationship. You met her 3 times, within 3 days. Your and your partner are new to this. So you slow down to see if this is really ok. I do think it is a good idea to have some good time with your gf, possibly tell her in the full what is going on and see where she is. With one conversation, she may be less informed then we on the forum now :)
You realised that you should stop to listen, so no reason to shame yourself. No need to apologize either, if she isn't hurt. Just have a reality check with her.
 
I don't see where you are being a dick. :confused: To me you are going opposite direction. WAY too much.... helicoptering?

I see where you are trying to keep to these rules you have for yourself...

I will tell you everything ahead of time. I will not kiss on a first meeting, I will not go further than a kiss on a second meeting, I would like full freedom on a third meeting (my discretion). She's been cool with these rules and has helped support it really well.
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But WHY? What's the purpose? If you and I were dating?

  • I will tell you everything ahead of time. ( EVERYTHING? Even when you go to the bathroom on a date? Seems more specific to ask me what I really want to know and what of that you are willing to share. Rather than go to global EVERYTHING. That's exhausting and every dyad needs some privacy. Plus, you might want to TELL everything, but that seems to assume I want to HEAR everything.)
  • I will not kiss on a first meeting. (Fair enough. It's your body. Why do I have to know?)
  • I will not go further than a kiss on a second meeting. (Fair enough. It's your body. Why do I have to know?)

  • I want to share sex on a 3rd date if I feel like it. (Fair enough. It's your body. I don't really care how many dates you wait or not -- that is all your business.)

  • Missing: I will tell you before (you and I) have sex if I was with another and what sex practices we used. (I don't care how many days you wait before taking a new lover. I want to know how many lovers there have been before you share sex again with ME. It's MY body entering a certain risk zone... i want to know what the risk is.)

Maybe you and M could talk about whether or not these guidelines are realistic or workable as stated? And what the purpose of them are? Maybe the purpose can be achieved in a different way?

For me that much checking in would make me CRAZY. I would find it annoying. The "newsworthy" things to me would be "Heads up...I meet someone new. Heads up... we had sex. Heads up....We broke up." Things like that.

Since you want the freedom to go lover after 3 dates? Whether you choose to or not, I figure it's on the table after 3 dates. Doesn't really matter to me. Cuz I'll be asking you before we have sex if there's been other people since the last time we had sex together. It's my job to safeguard my body. I want to know if you had sex with someone else before you have sex again with ME. So I can give full consent to sex with you from a place of full knowledge.

I don't really need the play by play -- a kiss happened, a coffee date happened, a ride to a munch happened. So long as it isn't impacting me any in terms of my time or my health? Your time is your time and you do whatever you want with your time. All these little check ins for "are you ok? are you ok?" would drive me up the wall. I can SAY when I am not ok.

TBH? I wonder if you have stuff leftover anxiety stuff from your previous GF who didn't want to you date anyone else and maybe would freak out.

I wonder if you are kinda expecting M to freak out and do same. She's supportive, but you cannot quite believe she's supportive.

I wonder if you were in the habit of trying to mind reader your ex. So that's why you are trying to mind reader M with the "it's not fair to text her at work" thing.

It is like you tip-toe around M with all these mini check ins like you need reassurance that YES, it really is ok for you to go ahead and date.

Is that it? :confused:

I came to realise that in the space of 3 days I had basically asked M to contemplate me dating someone else and it becoming a serious thing. I asked her to contemplate all that with 1 conversation in person and 2 rushed conversations over the phone following a busy stress filled day at work.

I pushed too much on to her and was totally unfair. I apologised for this unreservedly when I got home.
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I think you are picking up baggage you don't need to pick up. What does M actually SAY?

Because you seem to mind reader a response (I was bad! M is gonna be upset! ) then want to act it out. (profuse apologies to ward off...what?)

M cannot consent to participate in Open relationship where you date and then later go "Oh! I'm so stunned you clicked with someone and want another partner!" like it is some big surprise.
It is her responsibility to think all that out BEFORE giving her consent. Presumably she has thought it all out way before she consented. It's been 18 MONTHS together, not 18 minutes.

And this K woman -- it's just a few get togethers so far. She's NOT yet a partner. Why all this anxiety/jumping the gun stuff?

I wonder if you are afraid M has a covert agenda like "Open for me but not for you" like your ex seemed to.

Your ex seems to have done a number on your head and you sound like you haven't quite shaken out of it. :(

Galagirl
 
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My advice to you would be to arrange to spend quality time with M, and be careful that NRE with K doesn't make you neglectful of M.

If she is experiencing a "this is a lot to process in a short time" feeling, this should help. And you really need some time, like a nice happy relaxing evening, so that instead of "every time I see or hear from him, he's bugging me about this other woman" let it go for a while...just enjoy each other a while...and eventually, hopefully, you'll have a calm, happy space where you can actually talk about feelings without it feeling pressured or anxious.

I get a very pressured/anxious vibe from what you describe right now. Or even that YOU are anxious that SHE may feel pressured. You've got to diffuse that time bomb before it goes off, whether it's more your problem, hers, or both.

And you have to make M feel secure by not neglecting her for K, even though K is very exciting and you're having a good time.

I'm curious about something, are you new to the scene or an established player? Just wondering how much "new and shiny" you're processing right now...
 
A bit frustratingly I wrote out a long response to this, then the website played around and I lost it all.

M and I spoke today and I have realised a few things;

1) We weren't as clear as we should have been about what rules we were working to.

My rule of "I will always tell you everything ahead of time", M had assumed meant she had a veto. I've always hated vetoes mainly because my ex S tried to veto everything.

At least M has had said yes to the last 2 dates I've ever been on so it makes me feel like she would at least be reasonable if she had such a power.

2) I said in my OP that I thought M had understood why I told her after work. I was wrong. She was working off the premise that she had the opportunity to approve of the date ahead of time and so was quite pissed off that that hadn't happened.

She actually said she would have said yes. She wanted to be given the opportunity to say yes. But by not being consulted she felt like I had betrayed her.

3) GalaGirl you are so right!!
Your ex seems to have done a number on your head and you sound like you haven't quite shaken out of it.
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When I first got into polyamory I was dating a girl called B.

Then I met S.

Then I met J. B was fine with this, S caused a massive drama. Nothing happened with J.

This drama continued and eventually was a contributing factor to my breakup with B (we're still good friends though).

S was never a bad person; she was not malicious or nasty. But she did suffer from social anxiety and managed any insecurity/fear that could set her off by controlling her environment. When it came to dating that sometimes crossed the line into manipulating her partners - she did it to her other boyfriend too.

I always tried to forgive her because I could see how it was happening. I tried to concede ever more restrictions to make things work. I did tread on eggshells, I did impose restrictions that I thought would pacify the situation. Ultimately I lost all sight of why I'd got into polyamory in the first place and I probably treated other potential partners quite badly because of it.

S and I then had a messy breakup, with lots of things left unresolved.

I then met M and she was wonderful. Shortly after I began dating her S saw how happy I was and how I was making polyamory work for me. She begged for me back and said she had learnt from our breakup. I gave her another chance and within a week she had caused another huge drama.

The mentality I have, the rules I work to, the egg shells I tread on all still stem from my time with S. I need to iron out those things in my head and become comfortable with my own needs and my preferred styles of dating.

---

Spork, in answer to your question I have been involved in kinky relationships for 8 years, I've been on the kink scene for about 4 years, open to the idea of polyamory for all of that time and actively poly for 3.

B and I discovered polyamory together, dating separate people. We had great communication and a very positive approach to everything. We had few rules and were just very open with sharing what we needed to. She was new to the kink scene when I met her.

S and I met through the kink scene. She'd been in a half open relationship (open for her to see others, due to a difference in sex drives) for a year.

M and I met through OK Cupid. 99% match, 1% enemy - it's brought me round to the conclusion that in instances where you've both answered a lot of questions those algorithms are damn accurate. She was new to kink and pretty much new to relationships generally.

K and I met at her first kink event. I'm trying to be cautious as she is so new, but that's not to say she's not experienced. She knows what she wants and is very confident.
 
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I should add that M and I had a good chat today. We've realised where our confusion came from regarding what rules we were working to. Now that we've cleared the air a little we're going to take some time to process it all emotionally and then write up what our needs are and negotiate the best rules required to meet those needs.
 
Glad to hear you talked, realized misunderstandings, and are talking about making new agreements that are more realistic and better stated to meet (You + M) needs. Just leave all the S garbage behind. She's not here. M is.

When you talk? Could have M repeat back what you just said to make sure she understands you how you mean it. And you do the same -- you repeat back what she just said so she knows you got it how she meant it. Then you are both prevent having another "I said X but they heard Y" thing.

FWIW, if you don't want a veto but she wants a voice? Articulate the "messy people" list ahead of time. Solve it that way.

I wouldn't want DH dating my mother, sister, my boss or coworkers, his boss or coworkers, kids' teachers, minister, addicts, etc. There's enough people in the world to date without picking "messy" people like that who could create weird dynamics. Like he dates my boss, they have a fight, and she takes it out on me at work or something. Too....messy. Just don't go there to begin with!

That's different to me than a veto that happens AFTER you start dating the person and you like them but your partner doesn't.

Well... it is ok for DH not to like them. My DH doesn't have to interact with my date. Basic polite should they bump into each other but they don't have to be best friends just because I'm a hinge person to both. YKWIM?

Talk that kind of thing out with M.

Be honest about you not wanting vetos. Be up front and honest about your own needs and your preferred styles of dating.

It may or may not work out with M long term, but at least you are being up front and sorting deep compatibility out earlier rather than later.

I'm hoping it works out.

GL!

Galagirl
 
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OP, are you living with M? If so there might be a need for more communication or check-ins. If not, I don't know why M needs prior notice on dates, especially if M doesn't have veto power.
 
OP, are you living with M?
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Not at the moment, though we do see each other 2/3 or so days a week... which means that in the status quo we are almost halfway towards living together.

I'd like to live together, I know we will one day, but M likes to have her space and I think getting there will be a slow transition. I'm trying to show her that it's fine for us to be in the same house and doing our own thing in different rooms - or for one of us to be out and the other not.

I imagine long term we would probably not have time in our schedules for more than 2/3 nights of quality time together anyway and that's absolutely fine.

Identifying as poly has actually helped me to have a better view of even how a person relates to themselves. If you consider that even in a monogamous 2 person relationship there are still 3 relationships at play; Person As relationship with Person B, Person As relationship with themselves and Person Bs relationship with themselves.

You can tell yourself things, you can be sexual with yourself, you can be intimate with yourself, you can indulge/pamper yourself, you can buy yourself presents... these are all things which help you to love yourself.

I've seen this help in 2 ways; 1) It helped my ex. She came to realise that her relationship with herself was an abusive relationship. She wouldn't have settled for her best friend being treated that way by a partner so why should she suffer so much mental self abuse?

2) It has allowed me to remember to indulge my hobbies no matter how many people I'm dating. So I still do boardgaming and Kink and stuff...

Ms relationship with herself is one that needs lots of time and I'm ok with that :) I like seeing her happy.
 
I met up with K again tonight and it went to that next level. We discussed things too and decided friends with benefits would probably work best as a definition. She can't commit to more and I'm absolutely fine with this too.

M said she was fine with it getting physical but I could tell she's hurt and emotionally raw from this last week. I could tell she's trying so hard to be fine with this but it's cutting her up.

Seeing her going through that is hurting me in turn and is filling me with guilt. I really love her. I hate the thought that actions I've taken have caused her hurt.

When I first got into polyamory with B this all felt so natural; she met someone else and I felt a huge flood of happiness and returned it when I met S and J. It seemed natural and I loved how limitless love became. But maybe I was more loving how happy my partners were? Seeing M in pieces is destroying me.

How do I deal with this guilt?
 
You did not cause M. to feel hurt. Nobody can make anyone feel any particular feeling. She is choosing to feel wounded, and her feelings are her own responsibility. So, there is no sense in your feeling guilty. Guilt is a useless emotion anyway, so I suggest you not go there. Take care of you and stop projecting onto people what you think they are going through and then telling yourself it's your fault. It's not.
 
I see where you struggle observing M struggling. But could stop labeling that "guilt." Ask her if there's anything you can do to comfort or reassure her -- make her tea, bring her a blanket. If she doesn't want anything, respect that. But stop taking this so personally. You did not force her be Open/Poly with you.

M has consented to be in an Open/Poly thing with you of her own volition. Part of the price of admission is her learning to do her emotional management while observing you date others. Presumably, she's up for paying the price otherwise she would not have consented.

You could let her emotional process be hers, be patient, be supportive. But do not take responsibility for her feelings like you CAUSE her feelings. Because if you really did cause her feelings you could wave a magic wand and -- POOF! -- make her happy now.

Galagirl
 
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I wish I'd had a magic wand this last week, but alas no such thing :p It's had to be good old fashioned talking instead.

M has worked though a lot of emotions but we spent yesterday evening together and had a lot of really good quality time. I think she's starting to see that I'm still me and that nobody else could impact on our relationship.

We had lots of cuddles and I gave lots of reassurances. By the end of the evening she looked a lot more comfortable with it all.

I know this is a big scary step for her after just a couple of dates dispersed out over the last 18 months, but I really am proud of how she's handling it. She's processed things very well and communicated what she's scared of which has helped me to reassure her.
 
Hi LondonGuy,

Re (from OP):
"Interestingly what does everyone else think is a workable realistic pattern for this sort of thing? telling partners ahead of planning something with someone new, telling partners ahead of going to something with someone new, telling partners as soon as possible after meeting up with someone new or maybe even only telling someone only if it went positively?"
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It seems to me that you have to work that out with each individual partner. Everybody's different.

Sounds like you and M are on the mend with each other, that's good to hear. Anytime the two of you can get some quality time together, that will probably help.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Yeah my relationship with M has got much better. I'm now seeing M roughly twice a week and K roughly twice a week.

Both have agreed to meet soon and there's already been several messages go back and forth between them. They've both realised that the other is not a threat and is really supportive :)

We've also decided to classify the relationship with K as a tertiary relationship as we felt that definition suits us best. Though no one set of definitions are any more valid than any other and at the end of the day it's just a label after all.

Lastly I wanted to thank you all for your help. This thread has been a great help to me with regards to helping sort out my feelings on what's fair and reasonable and has helped me process a lot of the residue from my relationship with S. It's also helped M process her thoughts on me seeing K. I think I needed a good dose of healthy, happy polyamory to properly flush S out my system!!
 
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Good to hear things are still improving.
 
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