Ethical advice

Sunday

New member
Hey all
Thoughts/comments welcomed on this ethical issue.
(K) is in a relationship with (B) and (M). B and M know about each others relationships with K. However M has a wife (N) who does not know about K and M's relationship and being poly.
B, M and K have different ideas about what to tell N and who should tell her.

Option 1 - Nobody tells N anything
Option 2 - M tells N about poly relationship with K
Option 3 K tells N about her relationship with M
Option 4 B, K, M & N all get together to talk about their relationships with each other.
 
I do better with names. I will give them generic food names ok? If you like some else I'm willing to go with what you pick.

Here's what I understand. You correct me if I am wrong. I quote just to visually block it off. My comments in parenthesis.

Mango has a wife. Her name is Nutella. She's been in the dark about everything.

Mango has been cheating on his Closed marriage agreements with two partners.
  • One is Banana.
  • The other one is Kiwi.

Banana, Mango and Kiwi have decided to come clean to Nutella and stop this cheating behind her back. But they cannot agree on how to tell her.

  • Option 1 - Nobody tells N anything (So the plan is to keep treating Nutella poorly? Keep her in the dark forever? Do not do this. I grey it out.)

  • Option 2 - M tells N about poly relationship with K (You are not in a consenting 4 people polyship network at this time. You are in a 3 people cheating affair with 1 player in the dark. Don't sugar coat. But yes. I think Mango should take responsibility and come clean to Nutella about the cheating with Kiwi and Banana.)

  • Option 3 K tells N about her relationship with M (To do what? Apologize? If so, Kiwi and Banana might need to apologize to Nutella for being Mango accomplices in cheating at some point, but not FIRST. To me Mango has to go first. I grey it out.)

  • Option 4 B, K, M & N all get together to talk about their relationships with each other. (That can come across like 3 people ganging up on Nutella. Don't do ambush like that. Bad enough to hear cheating news from you spouse. No need to have the cheating partners there for an audience. I grey it out.)

The original marriage agreements were between (Mango and Nutella.)

Had Mango gone about it clean, Mango would have been the one to tell Nutella...
  • Mango could tell Nutella Mango is no longer willing to keep old marriage agreements.
  • Mango could have ask to renegotiate agreements to include Open Marriage or ask to part ways respectfully.
Either way could have left Mango free to date other people without cheating on any agreements. But Mango did not go about it clean. Mango did not employ ethical behavior.

Now Mango wants to employ ethical behavior. Well...Mango could take personal responsibility and clean up the mess Mango made.

  • Mango could come clean about the cheating to Nutella. Apologize, ask for forgiveness.
  • Mango could tell Nutella Mango is no longer willing to keep old marriage agreements.
  • Mango could have ask to renegotiate agreements to include Open Marriage or ask to part ways respectfully.

Which does Mango want?

  • If Mango wants divorce -- just ask for the divorce and end it clean. Even if the rest was a mess, the parting could be respectful, ethical, clean, and with some dignity.

  • If Mango wants to ask Nutella to poly with Mango? Mango could ask. But Mango could be prepared for Nutella wanting no part of it if Kiwi and Banana are still in the mix. Or wanting no part of it at all.


Whatever Nutella says, I think Mango should respect her stance on the matter and not try to railroad her into poly anyway. If Nutella prefers to part ways, then go for a respectful divorce instead.

At least that part can be clean. The rest of it does not sound like it has been. :(

Kiwi and Banana failed to say to Mango at the beginning of the potential cheating -- "Mango, I want to date you, but you are not ABLE to date clean right now. Sort it with your wife, THEN come talk to me. Don't be putting cart before horse. I don't want to be your cheating accomplice."

After Mango has cleaned up his mess, if Kiwi and Banana want to apologize to Nutella for their part in the situation making? They can apologize. Nutella may or may not accept the apologies, but at least Kiwi and Banana have tried to employ ethical behavior and clean up their portion of the mess too.

Hopefully from this point on , Mango, Banana, and Kiwi all employ ethical behavior all the time and don't create these messes any more.

Regardless of how it turns out with Nutella.

Galagirl
 
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It's nobody's job to be the morality police for anyone else's relationship, only to make choices for one's own. Life goes much better for everyone when I don't presume to have all of the inside information on everyone else or make judgement calls about others' so-called ethics. That's just my way of doing life, since you asked.
 
I'd say it's M's responsibility. If the other players don't like being involved in a cheating relationship, they should walk away rather than put pressure on M to disclose something. If I were being cheated on, I'd prefer to find out because my partner decided not to be a lying scumbag anymore, not because their other partners insisted.
 
M needs to decide what is important, and then talk to N. If M feels that this new relationship with K is important and a "deal breaker", then they go to N and talk about that. See what happens. Let the chips fall where they may...

As someone who has been on the K side of things, (being involved with someone whose partner did not have full information about what was happening, only partial information), I can tell you that it SUCKS. Sometimes it seems like the best idea at the time, but in the end it just sucks for everyone. For the cheaters, for the cheated on, for the accomplices. So much better to just be up front and honest, make decisions based on truth and not on lies. I will never do that again.

End the dishonesty, and let everyone make informed choices based on reality, not illusion.
 
Yeah this is a cheating network. I would totally walk away until the injured partner has full disclosure and is fully consenting. It wouldn't be my job to tell them, but I probably would if I had the opportunity to contact them.
 
Hi Sunday,

I lean on Option 2, M tells N about poly relationship with K. It is the simplest option. N may declare an ultimatum at that point, but you would just cross that bridge when you got to it.

That's my 2¢, anyway.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I think Kiwi and Banana each have to decide if they want to keep going in a cheating affair with Mango or bow out and stop contributing to/participating in the mess.
If they want to be ethical? I would suggest they bow out.

"Come be my cheating accomplice. Let's be unkind and keep my wife in the dark together" doesn't sound like a great dating offer from Mango. Eventually Kiwi and Banana could wonder what Mango is keeping/will be keeping from Kiwi and Banana. They can already see how Mango is ok keeping Nutella in the dark.

If they decide to bow out? They decide if they want to leave saying nothing, or leave with an apology to Nutella for their part of the situation making.

They just deal with the questions one at a time, in the order they come in.

Galagirl
 
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What if Mango does not want to come clean to Nutella?

This is always what makes an affair an affair. It's not complicated. Do you want to be part of it, yes or no? Myself, I'd leave all of the moralizing and judgmental name calling out of it and decide for myself what feels right. Regarding what is "right," far more people think that polyamory is immoral, disrespectful and insane than think that it's ethical, so "ethics" and "right behavior" are a matter of judgement here, not Truth.
 
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Do unto others as you would have them do unto you....
 
Thank you all for your thoughtful responses.
What if Mango does not want to come clean to Nutella?

As everyone has said, the others involved need to decide whether or not they are still willing to participate.

Personally? I would leave the situation and tell the person that their relationship is not what they think it is. I don't lie to people, and I 100% believe that everyone should get to choose whether or not they are willing to take the health risks involved in nonmonogamous situations. Nutella's mental wellbeing is undoubtedly affected by the lies, but her physical health is affected as well since EVERYONE in the network is now affecting her partner and therefore her sexual health. Condoms aren't 100%, and that's even assuming there is condom use going on. From my limited experience with cheaters, they also tend to be less worried about protection.
 
I had brief (and, to my thinking, very limited) involvement with someone who was cheating on his longterm, live-in girlfriend, not so very long ago. He had another secret lover on the side besides me, and we only played a bit, stopping short of intercourse. I do get the difficulty of being in a relationship where you really deeply love the other person, yet your needs are not met, and you're feeling stuck and hurting because you want what you want, but you don't want to be the bad one who hurts somebody, and you do feel deep attachment to your partner and don't want to see them in pain. I get it. I get it enough that I don't consider liars or cheaters to be the scum of the earth...just people in difficult situations, maybe somewhat cowardly, selfish, or misguided, since they want the cake and to eat it too...Sometimes it feels like the only solution where everyone wins is to get what you need, and hope the secret stays kept.

I understand this...but it does not change the fact that I found it (when I was considering how involved to get in this) and find it (in hypothetical theory) to be ethically uncomfortable. I didn't like being party to something where I felt I was wronging an innocent person. Denying them the chance to consent, and all that cheating entails. Even if it is never found out. I felt squicky enough about it that I was not "all in" when it was happening, and I quickly withdrew from the person socially, afterwards, after strongly advising him to talk to his girlfriend about becoming poly, instead of cheating on her.

So even though I don't want to be TOO judgmental, I would advise M-ango to come clean with N-utella and if I were K-iwi or B-anana, I would not poly with M-ango until (s)he got the lying and sneaking outta the picture.

I would not however out M-ango, to N-utella or others, because it isn't my job to police anybody's ethics but my own, in a situation like this.
 
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