Feeling All the Feels

[MsEmotional]

Questioning everything

When does it get easier? When do things feel stable?

Surely there must be a day and time when I stop second-guessing this lifestyle and all that it entails — when will that day come?

I have realized that I don’t seem to really find “novelty” appealing. Like...at all.i enjoy connection. I enjoy being in love. I enjoy sex. But I don’t enjoy meeting new people (I might enjoy the person, but not the newness). I don’t enjoy having sex with new people (I might enjoy the sex, but not the newness). I don’t enjoy NRE (I might enjoy some of the feelings, but not the anxiety and desperation).

So why am I poly? Well, I acknowledge that sometimes feelings and connections happen, regardless of whether they are always pleasant. And sometimes those feelings lead to wanting to have sex, even though that sex might be awkward at first. So I am okay with polyamory, even though I think I could be pretty gosh darn happily monogamous.

Where I run into conflict is that being poly means there are other people in my life that are going to be changing too —even seeking the novelty that I don’t particularly enjoy. And that means that I will experience a whole host of poly-related instability (from dealing with jealousy to negotiating with new metamours, etc) that I also don’t enjoy.

If I hadn’t fallen in love with these guys, I don’t think this is a lifestyle I would choose for myself. But, well, it’s kind of too late now...

 

[HurtandConfused]

When does it get easier? When do things feel stable?

Surely there must be a day and time when I stop second-guessing this lifestyle and all that it entails — when will that day come?

I have realized that I don’t seem to really find “novelty” appealing. Like...at all.i enjoy connection. I enjoy being in love. I enjoy sex. But I don’t enjoy meeting new people (I might enjoy the person, but not the newness). I don’t enjoy having sex with new people (I might enjoy the sex, but not the newness). I don’t enjoy NRE (I might enjoy some of the feelings, but not the anxiety and desperation).

Your having anxiety and desperation while meeting people your self or while your partners are?

Where I run into conflict is that being poly means there are other people in my life that are going to be changing too —even seeking the novelty that I don’t particularly enjoy. And that means that I will experience a whole host of poly-related instability (from dealing with jealousy to negotiating with new metamours, etc) that I also don’t enjoy.

If I hadn’t fallen in love with these guys, I don’t think this is a lifestyle I would choose for myself. But, well, it’s kind of too late now...

That doesn't sound like a very fun situation to be in, certainly your not carrying this milstone around ALL the time, are you just "in that mode" now or is this a constant worry?

This morning we all walked over to a place in our neighborhood for breakfast. My two year old was walking slowly and I was holding her hand. Ahead of us, my five-year-old was walking between Glasses and Ponytail, her pigtails bouncing with each step as she spread her arms to hold each of their hands.

It was beautiful. I felt so grateful for all that I have.

It seems like I've seen this type of thing crop up a lot, where one person will be happy with two, but when when one of the two looks for another, the original one resists; maybe it's just a matter of processing those emotions a bit more?

The stability will come from within; any other source is suspect.

 

[MsEmotional]

Your having anxiety and desperation while meeting people your self or while your partners are?

Hmmm...both? I was referring to when I am meeting people myself, though. That horrible feeling of wondering what someone else thinks of you and if you were "cool" or just plain weird....I would love to just skip all that and get to the fun part.

That doesn't sound like a very fun situation to be in, certainly your not carrying this milstone around ALL the time, are you just "in that mode" now or is this a constant worry?

I don't think I carry it around all the time, but I've consistently come back to the same anxieties throughout the last year of being poly. There are lots of times when I am super happy and content -- especially those times when it feels like things are stable. That quote from the time when we walked together to the restaurant is a perfect example. That day, everything seemed perfect. But then I am reminded of the fact that things aren't always going to stay the same. I want Ponytail to move in but Glasses and Ponytail are both nervous about living together . . . Glasses and Ginger have concerns about STI risks but Ponytail wants to explore having another partner.

Why can't we always just be adorable and happy?

It seems like I've seen this type of thing crop up a lot, where one person will be happy with two, but when when one of the two looks for another, the original one resists; maybe it's just a matter of processing those emotions a bit more?

The stability will come from within; any other source is suspect.

This is a good quote. I wish I knew how to make myself feel internally stable when everything around me feels like it is constantly in flux.

 

[lunabunny]

I have realized that I don’t seem to really find “novelty” appealing. Like...at all.i enjoy connection. I enjoy being in love. I enjoy sex. But I don’t enjoy meeting new people (I might enjoy the person, but not the newness). I don’t enjoy having sex with new people (I might enjoy the sex, but not the newness). I don’t enjoy NRE (I might enjoy some of the feelings, but not the anxiety and desperation).

So why am I poly? Well, I acknowledge that sometimes feelings and connections happen, regardless of whether they are always pleasant. And sometimes those feelings lead to wanting to have sex, even though that sex might be awkward at first. So I am okay with polyamory, even though I think I could be pretty gosh darn happily monogamous.

Where I run into conflict is that being poly means there are other people in my life that are going to be changing too —even seeking the novelty that I don’t particularly enjoy. And that means that I will experience a whole host of poly-related instability (from dealing with jealousy to negotiating with new metamours, etc) that I also don’t enjoy.

If I hadn’t fallen in love with these guys, I don’t think this is a lifestyle I would choose for myself. But, well, it’s kind of too late now...

I don't usually respond to people's blog posts directly, but literally EVERYTHING you said in your "questioning everything" entry, I could have written about myself. (Except, I do perhaps enjoy NRE feelings more than you.)

For this reason, I am glad my polycule eventually decided on a "closed" V. (Though I'm currently not with Jester, that relationship may be reevaluated down the track.)

 

[MsEmotional]

Anniversaries

This weekend is kind of an anniversary for us. On this Saturday, one year ago, I first went on a date with Ponytail. Since it was my side of the marriage that opened up first (Glasses didn't initially start looking for other partners), it also kind of marks the start of my experience with polyamory.

We met up at a coffee shop for an hour before I went to volunteer. We had a nice chat, established the chemistry that we had already been feeling via text message, and then he walked me to my car. I told him that I wanted to kiss him and he asked if we could hug first. I gave him a hug and then we leaned in for my first "first kiss" in over 10 years. Then I said goodbye and got in my car and went off to my volunteer gig. For the rest of the day, I felt like I was floating.

This year, I woke up with Ponytail in my bed. My alarm went off and I hit snooze. We intertwined our legs and arms together and snuggled close, talking about how nervous we each were for that date and what our first impressions were of each other. We marveled at how much has happened -- for better and for worse -- in the first year together. Then we went downstairs. Ponytail and I helped Glasses with the kids as we got ready to go and then Ponytail went home and I headed off to my volunteer gig.

It's been a hell of a year, but I wouldn't trade it in for anything else. Here's hoping the next one will be smoother.

 

[MsEmotional]

Happy? Ecstatically happy?

So the past couple weeks have been intense. Ponytail and I seemed to be going through a period of a lot of challenges (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105978) but through it all we kept calm, kept talking, felt our feelings, and communicated. We've really grown over the past year together.

Before it was resolved, though, before we had figured things out, I made a choice that could have gone really really badly for us.

I hooked up with Laptop.

The way that it happened was that I got super excited about the idea that I had for how to make D/s and nonmonogamy work with Ponytail. I was really exhilarated and looking forward to telling him. And when I was getting ready to hang out with Laptop that evening? Well, I wouldn't say that I planned for something to happen, but I guess I just felt a certain sense of sexiness when I was shaving my legs. There was a little spring in my step, so to speak. And I knew that his wife would be out of town. The last few times we've hung out, his wife has been around, so there hasn't been any chance of shenanigans. But I knew she would be out and so there was a sense of, "Maybe?" this time.

The "Maybe" turned into Yes. We were watching TV and I asked if we could snuggle (we had already established that platonic cuddles were acceptable, but we hadn't done them for awhile because of his wife always being around and it being kind of awkward). He casually agreed, but then while we did that he was stroking my arm and I just felt myself kind of melting.

Then after the episode ended, I asked what he wanted to do next and he said he was just planning to stay quiet and wait for me to make a decision. So I asked if he wanted to make out. To my surprise (since, "I'm just going to sit here and wait for you to decide what we do next," seemed like an invitation), he was really surprised and he chuckled and said, "Ok....uh....do you want to talk about that first?" And I said, "No, I don't want to talk." And he said, "Okay!" and we started kissing. And then I stopped and said, "Do *you* want to talk first? We can talk about this first if you want to..." He said he was fine proceeding without talking first and so we went ahead.

It was....intense. There was the nervousness of being intimate with someone that I am not all that used to being intimate with -- that I am not 100% comfortable in my skin with. And then there was the pleasurable sensations of it all. It was weird. But fun. And I felt totally disconnected from everything else -- just focused on the moment.

Afterwards, when Laptop and I were chatting, he commented that our lives are so different than they were a year or 18 months ago -- that even after he and his wife decided to become poly, there was a period of time when he wasn't sure if it was okay or not. When every encounter came with a little bit of guilt or discomfort. But that tonight, with me, he didn't even think about it. He knew it was okay and that he didn't have to worry about whether his wife was *really* okay with it.

I nervously was like, "Yeah." But on the inside, I was like, "What the fuck did I just do? Here I am, in the process of trying to negotiate non-monogamy with my boyfriend because *I* am uncomfortable with him having sexual experiences with other people -- and *I* go out and hook up with my friend?"

I felt super anxious. But I knew I had to inform Glasses and Ponytail.

The next day I told Glasses and he was kind of just like, "Oh. Okay." He didn't have much to say -- he confessed that he was nervous about time management, but that it didn't affect him otherwise. He also said that, because things are NOT going well for him on the romance front right now, it was hard to imagine giving me emotional support with another relationship. I explained that I didn't need any emotional support, but that I was just wanting to let him know what was going on.

Then I talked to my therapist. She said that she understood that the timing was not great because Ponytail and I were having this sensitive time in our relationship when it comes to nonmonogamy.....but that she didn't think I did anything *wrong* and that I needed to own the poor timing, but I didn't need to beat myself up for having had the experience itself.

I was also, by that point, deeply regretting that I hadn't taken Laptop upon the offer for conversation before hooking up. I was panicking because I didn't know what he expected, or what he wanted. My therapist helped me focus my attention on what *I* wanted and not worry about whether he wants something different. She said my job is to figure out what I want and be clear about it.

That evening, I went over to Ponytail's house after work. By that point in the day, I had stopped spiralling with anxiety and was actually feeling like the experience with Laptop had given me some perspective when it comes to Ponytail being with others. I knew that I wanted to propose my idea of Ponytail's potential partners asking me for permission to play with him first....but I also felt like the experience with Laptop had made me feel more capable of letting Ponytail play with others. I had had a fun experience with Laptop -- and I was understanding more how those fun experiences could be separate from my D/s dynamic with Ponytail.

Anyway, the conversation was difficult, but we both owned our feelings and discussed things honestly. Ultimately, Ponytail was happy with the idea of asking permission and everything seemed lovely and perfect. We had some really intense "getting back the awesome D/s dynamic" sex.

After leaving Ponytail's house, I was still feeling so lovely and happy and so I had some bonkers sex with Glasses too.

Then on Friday, Laptop and I texted a bit. He expressed that he was still confused and that he wants to make sure we are on the same page, so I told him exactly what was on my mind:

"I like you. I really really value our friendship. I would like to add physical intimacy to our relationship. What do you think about that?"

I was direct. I was honest. I didn't say I was down for more than I was.

He said he was on board with all that but that his only worry was that he didn't have a ton of emotional energy or time and that he didn't want to disappoint me if I found myself wanting more....

It was literally perfect. I felt exactly the same way. I told him that it sounded like we both had the same concerns and that we were on the same page about both emotional energy and time management. We rounded out the conversation with the text equivalent of a high five. It was kind of awesome.

So everything turned out wonderfully. And now I am walking on air. Just happy, happy, happy. Life is good. Poly is good.

Hopefully it lasts!

 

[MsEmotional]

When I met with my therapist last week, she noticed that I tend to get "all worked up" about Laptop and she wondered why that would be.....I asked what she meant -- I feel like I get all worked up about Ponytail too. She said it was different -- that with Ponytail I am speaking from a different place....I'm speaking from my heart and I am expressing concern for myself, for Ponytail, for Glasses, for my children....that I'm more focused on the people and their feelings.

With Laptop, she said, I tend to just spin.

I'm still trying to process that. I have a hard time seeing what she's talking about, but I think I kind of understand.

With Ponytail and Glasses, I am focused on the feelings of love. With Laptop, it is a totally different type of relationship and I am still trying to process what it is and what I think about it.

Truth be told, I think I don't know how to be with someone who doesn't love me.

Even though I have had friends with benefits before, I knew that under the surface, the "friends" in those situations were deeply infatuated with me and wanted more than just FWB. One of those was a guy who had had a crush on me for years when we were in school together and so it was easy to suggest a FWB kind of thing because I knew he would go for it. The other was Glasses who, after only maybe a month of FWB, said he wasn't going to continue unless I was willing to be more than FWB. In both cases, these guys were looking at me with puppy dog eyes from the very start.

With Laptop it's different. I like him. I enjoy spending time with him. I like hooking up with him.....but he doesn't look at me with puppy dog eyes. He definitely likes talking to me and seems to enjoy being intimate with me, but he looks at me with the fascination of someone who enjoys watching a woman get off....not with the excitement that it's *me* who is getting off and that he gets to be the one to get me off. And that's kind of....unnerving?

But I feel the same way! I like being intimate with him but I'm not infatuated with him. I like talking to him and touching him and playing with his body but I am not melting for him. So why does it slightly bother me that we are both on the same page?

Maybe I am not cut out for FWB? Maybe I really only fully enjoy being with partners who are all gushy with me? It's true that I don't feel nearly as sexy with him as I do with partners who actually love me.

Maybe its a power thing? I feel insecure about giving him sexual access without him being emotionally vulnerable about it? And maybe that makes *me* feel vulnerable?

Sometimes I wonder if it's me that wants more from this relationship. I imagine scenarios in which he tells me that he wants more, that he wants a real relationship. And they don't make me happy. They just make me uncomfortable. So clearly I'm fine with just being friends, or just being FWB. Why am I bothered by the fact that that seems like what he wants too?

Ugh. I just wish I could be more chill about all of this. It seems like it should be perfect, so why am I all weird about it?

 

[lunabunny]

I realise this is your blog and your question was more of the rhetorical variety. However, could it be that you are a natural "Domme". You enjoy the power you have over men when they're in love with you; whether it's Glasses, Ponytail or your previous FWBs.

It's not that you want Laptop to love you, but you may feel more comfortable and "at home" in a dynamic where you have the power of knowing the guy feels a certain way about you. And Laptop's feelings are more like he can "take it or leave it", which leaves you feeling bereft of that power/rush(?)

 

[MsEmotional]

I realise this is your blog and your question was more of the rhetorical variety. However, could it be that you are a natural "Domme". You enjoy the power you have over men when they're in love with you; whether it's Glasses, Ponytail or your previous FWBs.

It's not that you want Laptop to love you, but you may feel more comfortable and "at home" in a dynamic where you have the power of knowing the guy feels a certain way about you. And Laptop's feelings are more like he can "take it or leave it", which leaves you feeling bereft of that power/rush(?)

Ooooh. That makes some sense. Maybe that's it.

 

[MsEmotional]

Discussion Points

So I am meeting with my therapist this evening. I want to talk to her about this situation with Laptop. Based on my last posts here and my other thread, my hypotheses are as follows:

1. I am somewhere on the demisexual spectrum and I need more emotional input in order to feel comfortable being physical with someone. This is a requirement for me and therefore it is in our best interest to discontinue physical activities in order to restore my comfort level and preserve the friendship.

2. Part of my sexual enjoyment comes from the feeling of power and dominance that I experience when I am with a partner who adores me. I don't get that feeling from Laptop and so I am experiencing it as "something missing" and filling that gap with anxiety. Again, since this seems to be a critical part of my sexual satisfaction, it's probably best to "quit while we're ahead" with Laptop.

3. I am just nervous and unfamiliar with this experience, or perhaps some combination of hypotheses 1 and/or 2 is at play, but with time the feelings will subside. It is best if I continue the physical connection with Laptop, experience the feelings, and see if (with more FWB experience) my anxiety goes away.

I think my biggest question now is, how much, if at all, should I talk to Laptop about these feelings?

 

[MsEmotional]

Sex, love, and power

Yesterday I met with my therapist. It was a really useful experience, but not necessarily easy to discuss.

We talked about the weirdness of my feelings around my situation with Laptop. She wasn't sold on the idea of demisexuality, but said that she could see evidence of the idea that my anxiety is due to my feelings that a lack of adoration (from Laptop) translates into a lack of power (for me). We explored that idea a little further -- she got out the whiteboard markers and helped me visualize some of the trends we've been exploring over the last few months. She was direct with me about the fact that Laptop doesn't seem all that into me, and that because he is confusing to me (given my prior experiences), I fixate on his behavior rather than accepting his feelings (or lack thereof) for what they are.

She also made the comparison to crushes that we feel in middle school/high school....these are feelings in which we fixate on another person, looking for signs that they like us. There is an element of us liking them, of course, but the main fixation is about looking for signals that they like us. In some ways, we want a relationship, but in others we just want to be liked. She said that what I've been describing with Laptop sounds like a persistent crush -- I'm not really all that into him, but I've been convincing myself that I am because I want him to like me. At its root, it's about the battle between confidence/insecurity for me.

This kind of blew my mind.

So I asked what I should do about this. Should I call things off with Laptop? Should I tell him what's going on in my brain? How honest should I be? There's no good way to say, "You make me really nervous and I was feeling like I needed more emotional investment from you but actually I've realized that this is all about my own ego and that's kind of why I sometimes I feel sick to my stomach when I'm with you."

We discussed it some more and she said I didn't necessarily need to end things, but that maybe I needed to manage my anxiety in a different way. Instead of deriving power from someone adoring me, could I get the same sense of power in another way? Perhaps by establishing a more explicit dominant role with him?

I told her that he had expressed some interest in exploring the kinkier aspects of his personality, but that he is hesitant thus far. Back when we were kinda-dating last January, he brought up the idea of exploring kinky stuff with me being dominant because he "likes to please" his partner. At the time, I raised the concern that being dominant with him might make me more obsessive and possessive....an issue I already have in my relationship with Ponytail. He said that he didn't consider a kinky dynamic to be a requirement, but that he had thought perhaps that was the only way I would be interested and that's why he had suggested it.

Back in January, he did give me a phenomenal spanking. And I had a lot of fun with that. He was nervous at first because he had thought I had meant I didn't want any kind of kinky dynamic with him and I said it was really more about the headspace -- power exchange vs. kink/BDSM. D/s vs. Top/bottom. He doesn't totally understand the lingo, but I think he got the idea.

Anyway, then when I was talking to my therapist I also realized that in the time since this most recent hookup, I was least anxious when I was asking him if he could give me another spanking sometime. And also when I told him directly what I wanted from him as far as time/emotional connection. So maybe what I need, in order to be less anxious and just enjoy him for who he is and what our dynamic is, is not to be "in charge" and not to have him be "in love" with me, but rather that I just need to set some defined parameters around all of it.

Maybe I need to explicitly negotiate a light, fun, kinky, play partner relationship. No head games. No "submission" or "dominance" -- just fun. Yeah, we might have the toppier role, but weirdly enough, it would give me more control than I feel like I have right now. Instead of wondering, "What is he thinking when he looks at me like that? Is he doing this to me because he finds me sexy or because he thinks this is what will get him what he wants?" I would be able to let go in the assumption that his motivation is to have fun and explore kink....and so is mine.

Anyway, it was an illuminating therapy session.

 

[MsEmotional]

The Art of Negotiation

So I got together with Laptop last night. His wife was spending the night with her boyfriend, so we had the place to ourselves for the evening. I had come down with a nasty cold and my coughing and nose-blowing wasn’t super sexy, so i figured maybe this would be a good time to have a chat about what I’ve been processing.

Telling him all of what has been going on in my head wasn’t as relieving as I had hoped. It was more awkward for me to say out loud and he was more surprised and confused than I had expected. Nevertheless, he didn’t react poorly, he just needed some time to process and was a little confused about what he was supposed to say or do.

The end result was that he explained what he wanted from the situation (an opportunity to explore/learn more kinky play and the opportunity for physical intimacy with me without the time commitments and emotional investments of a relationship, which he knows he doesn’t have the ability to give right now). And, once again, I was able to confirm that we really do seem to be on the same page.So I suggested that if we were both interested in the exploring casual kink aspect, one way to put some parameters on that would be to discuss what it is exactly that interests him. So I found a BDSM checklist and we went through it, discussing various kinks and his level of interest in trying them out. I limited the discussion to just things that I would be interested in, knowing that if something was too weird or extreme for me, it would probably be too weird or extreme for him too. It was kinda fun and I didn’t feel anxious at all while I was doing it, nor did I feel anxious afterwards when we played around together (avoiding close face-to-face proximity because of my cold), nor did I feel anxious on the way home, or this morning.

I’m feeling good. Powerful. Calm.

Yay!

 

[MsEmotional]

So many emotions

Today I got the phone call I've been waiting for for over two months. I had been told that the genetic testing on the remains of the pregnancy would take about three weeks and I had still heard nothing. I was worried that there wasn't enough material for them to test, since the fetus didn't even develop. I was afraid to call and ask, but yesterday I finally did.

They called me right away this morning. I suspect that they had tried to call me earlier, but my voicemail box was full. I was relieved that they knew what was wrong.

The baby was a female. She had four complete sets of chromosomes (tetraploidy). From my research, this seems to happen either when both parents have an error in meiosis I (eventually resulting in two diploid gametes) or when an early error in mitosis after fertilization causes the embryo to have four complete sets of chromosomes instead of two. Looking over the two possible processes, I think it must have occurred from the latter process (an error in early embryonic mitosis) since an error in meiosis I in the father would have resulted in diploid male gametes and the baby was identified as female.

I got the call just as I was about to jump into the shower before a conference call. I had no time to process the results -- just wrote down what the nurse told me and then took my shower and dove into work mode. It was only when I stopped to eat lunch that I had a moment to do a little reading on the topic and think about it.

I texted with Ponytail and asked if I could call him later today. in the process of us figuring out a time to do that, he suddenly just called me from work. I wasn't prepared to talk to him about it right then and there, but I think he was getting worried and sensed that something was upsetting me.

In the process of explaining it over the phone, I burst into tears.

I feel like I have no right to be sad. But I think about all the potential that this baby could have had. She would have had two awesome older sisters. She might have made Ponytail a father. She might have been brilliant, strong, kind.....She would have been loved. If only her cells had fucking divided properly.

 

[MsEmotional]

So overwhelmed

Despite the fact that I feel fairly polysaturated, I am not opposed to making new connections with people.

I’m starting to wonder if I need to be more opposed to that. I am feeling overwhelmed.

There is a guy on OKC who has been messaging me. Mostly just casual discussion about polyamory, but there are instances in which I wonder if he is trying to gauge my interest in him and I struggle, when someone is not being direct with their intentions, to know how to tell them that I like chatting but I am not interested in more. It is something I have struggled with for my entire adult life. Sometimes I feel like I should just wear a sign around my neck that says, “you can assume I don’t want to sleep with you unless I tell you directly.”

And then there is another guy on FetLife.

I keep my FetLife profile brief and bare — I only use it to get info on upcoming poly/kinky events. I get occasional messages but most of the guys who message me on Fet don’t get a reply. Or if they do it’s a brief, “No thank you” or “no, that sounds awful.” There was one guy who I chatted with for a bit longer, mostly with me just answering his questions, but as soon as I asked HIM a question, he disappeared. Meh. No skin off my tushy.

Then yesterday someone messaged me in a totally different way. He was polite and nice sounding and we messaged back and forth for a few hours. He lives in another country, so I didn’t feel worried that he was going to expect to meet in person. All of a sudden, I found myself downloading a messaging app and we were sending each other voice messages back and forth into the evening.

But even though he lives thousands of miles away and cannot expect a “real relationship” from me, I can already feel how this could get more intense than I am prepared for. He has expressed that he feels he needs a dominant woman in his life and, through conversation, we have already established that my style of dominance and his style of submission are very compatible.

So last night when he asked if I would enjoy teasing him and adding to his sexual frustration, I was intrigued. But also felt really overwhelmed. What am I getting myself into? Is this going to be another whole relationship? But one made even more complex by different time zones and constantly ducking into private areas to record voice messages? At one point I switched to written text — it is faster for me and easier to do — and he immediately told me how much he liked my voice and asked me why I didn’t stick with voice messages. He understood when I explained that I didn’t want to wake up the kids, but at the same time, just in general, I prefer writing versus talking. I don’t know that I could keep up with constantly recording stuff for him.

Oh, and unlike my OKC profile that is full of disclaimers because I use it to meet people, my FetLife profile is basically bare, right? So I haven’t told him that I have a husband, boyfriend, FWB....and I don’t even know how to bring that up.

I am just out of my element.

 

[MsEmotional]

Life Updates

So a lot has changed since my last post here.

I'm no longer on FetLife or OKCupid. I am still seeing Laptop, but my feelings about that relationship are mixed up and confused. Things with Ponytail and Glasses are great.

The big news, though, is that Ponytail's mom guessed what was going on. They were talking about an upcoming trip that he and I are taking together and then she asked him directly. As far as I could gather from Ponytail, it went something like this:

Mom: Do [MsEmotional and Glasses] have a regular marriage?
Ponytail: I don't know what you mean by that.
Mom: Do they have an open marriage?
Ponytail: Yes.
Mom: I see. So you're together?
Ponytail: Yes.
Mom: So me hoping that [MsEmotional] was going to set you up with one of her friends is . . .?
Ponytail: Probably never going to happen.
Mom: Okay. I understand. I'm just really sad that you won't have a child.
Ponytail: There's nothing about this situation that prevents me from finding another partner to have a child with.
Mom: Okay.

(I'm not sure if they talked more beyond that. I just got the summary that Ponytail relayed to me.)

I feel so confused. On the one hand, I feel an intense feeling of relief -- I have been wanting him to be out with his parents for months and months. On the other hand, I'm nervous. I feel like I am waiting for the other shoe to drop. She's reluctantly accepting now, but my experience has been that parents are reluctantly accepting and then a few days later they start freaking out. In a few days she's going to realize that she may never introduce her friends to her son's wife -- or if she does, it will be with a big fat asterisk and a bit of explanation. She's going to worry that he won't be taken care of in his old age and that he will never have a family of his own. She will begin to get suspicious of me and my intentions, worrying that I am only using him for sex and trying to keep him from true happiness and stability.

My hope is that, because she had so much time to figure it out for herself, she won't go through as much shock/denial/bargaining. Maybe the fact that she asked him calmly and directly if we had an open marriage means that she is already at a place where she is ready to accept it. And, I suppose, it has been over a year. I mean, she's had a lot of time to get used to the idea that Ponytail was spending the night at my house once or twice a week and that I was bringing my children over to visit and whatnot. She's probably known for months and the fact that she asked him is a sign that she was ready to hear the truth.

I'll probably be walking on eggshells for another week or two, but if things go smoothly I'm going to be generally really grateful that this happened.

 

[JaneQSmythe]

...
The big news, though, is that Ponytail's mom guessed what was going on. They were talking about an upcoming trip that he and I are taking together and then she asked him directly. As far as I could gather from Ponytail, it went something like this:

Mom: Do [MsEmotional and Glasses] have a regular marriage?
Ponytail: I don't know what you mean by that.
Mom: Do they have an open marriage?
Ponytail: Yes.
Mom: I see. So you're together?
Ponytail: Yes.
Mom: So me hoping that [MsEmotional] was going to set you up with one of her friends is . . .?
Ponytail: Probably never going to happen.
Mom: Okay. I understand. I'm just really sad that you won't have a child.
Ponytail: There's nothing about this situation that prevents me from finding another partner to have a child with.
Mom: Okay.

(I'm not sure if they talked more beyond that. I just got the summary that Ponytail relayed to me.)

OK, good. Unless Ponytail was glossing over some major explosion, that sounds about as good as it can get from an "asking the direct question" aspect. Sounds like she still has some things to process (like how he still could have children), but overall she wasn't surprised by the answers to her questions.

I feel so confused. On the one hand, I feel an intense feeling of relief -- I have been wanting him to be out with his parents for months and months. On the other hand, I'm nervous. I feel like I am waiting for the other shoe to drop. She's reluctantly accepting now, but my experience has been that parents are reluctantly accepting and then a few days later they start freaking out...

My hope is that, because she had so much time to figure it out for herself, she won't go through as much shock/denial/bargaining. Maybe the fact that she asked him calmly and directly if we had an open marriage means that she is already at a place where she is ready to accept it. And, I suppose, it has been over a year. I mean, she's had a lot of time to get used to the idea that Ponytail was spending the night at my house once or twice a week and that I was bringing my children over to visit and whatnot. She's probably known for months and the fact that she asked him is a sign that she was ready to hear the truth.

I'll probably be walking on eggshells for another week or two, but if things go smoothly I'm going to be generally really grateful that this happened.

I think that (to quote one of the posters here) that cucumber is already a pickle. She figured it out before now, she was just confirming her observations. If she hasn't flipped her lid before this, I personally think there is a good chance that she isn't going to.

I outed myself to my father in 2017 - nothing changed. I'm sure that members of my and MrS's family have figured it out, even if we don't talk about it. Dude's family had no stake as they have never once contacted him since his Gram died.

 

[MsEmotional]

OK, good. Unless Ponytail was glossing over some major explosion, that sounds about as good as it can get from an "asking the direct question" aspect. Sounds like she still has some things to process (like how he still could have children), but overall she wasn't surprised by the answers to her questions.



I think that (to quote one of the posters here) that cucumber is already a pickle. She figured it out before now, she was just confirming her observations. If she hasn't flipped her lid before this, I personally think there is a good chance that she isn't going to.

I outed myself to my father in 2017 - nothing changed. I'm sure that members of my and MrS's family have figured it out, even if we don't talk about it. Dude's family had no stake as they have never once contacted him since his Gram died.

Yeah I am hopeful that this goes smoothly. Apparently they talked about it again later this week and she commented that she needs to recognize that he can be happy even if that happiness doesn’t fit the traditional mold. He said she also commented on how much she likes me and how surprised she is at how much he and I have in common. Overall he said that even though she expressed reservations about him not being able to fulfill some of the hopes that she had had for him, that he was really pleased with the conversation as a whole.

 

[MsEmotional]

Sorrowful Endings and Hopeful New Beginnings

So things ended with Laptop. On Saturday it became official.

I'm ridiculously sad. It feels almost worse than a break-up because I am simultaneously dealing with:

1. Losing a friend-- one of the few friends that I would spontaneously text on a near-daily basis;
2. Feelings of hurt and betrayal because of the way he handled things;
3. Recognizing that what I thought might develop between us is never going to happen....and wondering if there was ever any chance of it in the first place;
4. Self-doubt -- wondering if I somehow brought all this on myself....if there's something wrong with me that I felt so hurt by it and couldn't just let it go;
5. Feelings of insecurity and, in general, shock. I know that I am far from perfect, but I'm pretty freakin' awesome. I'm surprised that he wasn't able to muster the resolve to treat me better.

Above all, I'm mostly just in denial that it is really all over. I keep wondering if in a month or so he's going to contact me and tell me he realized what he should have done differently. But if that even happened would I even be able to go back to being friends with him?

There's something about him that has always felt "off" to me -- that our dynamic was always one-sided....I was always sharing with him and he was never really sharing much in return. I think I wanted to believe that the fact that he was listening to me and giving me great feedback meant that he must love and respect me. But in actuality, it just means that he's a good listener.

So yeah, it's been a really tough 5 days or so. The first few days were just full of anger and hurt, then anxiety and confusion, then resolution, and then grieving and (working on it) acceptance. Ponytail and Glasses have been really nice and supportive. Ponytail reminded me that things hurt now because it is fresh, but that they will hurt less next week and the week after that. Glasses has reminded me that it's okay to feel hurt by how things went down, but that ultimately there might be positive "silver linings" to having a clean break with him.

Both of them have been supportive of my decision to re-activate my OKC account.

I don't know exactly if it is the right decision, but it has been a great source of distraction. Last night I chatted online with a guy for a couple hours and we seemed to hit it off. It helps me remember that there are other people out there who share similar values to me and that I might actually be decently compatible with in terms of relationship shape. I think my feelings of, "But he's so nice! And a feminist! And perfect on paper!" made me overlook a lot of incompatibilities in the way that Laptop and I interacted with each other. So finding that same type of initial connection with other people helps me remember that the characteristics that I liked about him are not rare.

But I'm still not sure why I have re-activated my account. Do I want another boyfriend/girlfriend? No, not really. I'm pretty happy with the relationships I have now. Do I want another FWB? No, I think that perhaps this experience has taught me that I expect and value more affection in my relationships than a FWB would be able to offer.....

When the guy I was chatting with last night asked me what I was looking for, I found myself being pretty generic. "Meeting new people," "Staying open to possibilities," etc. (In my defense, that's basically how he answered that question too.) I'm beginning to wonder if there is some kind of code that I am missing. The "What are you looking for on here?" question seems to be one that comes up frequently in early message exchanges and, given that OKC has a set of tick boxes for that ("new friends"; "short-term relationships"; "long-term relationships" and "hook-up") I don't know how else to answer the question. Isn't everyone out to just meet new people until they actually meet in person, learn more about each other, and see if there is chemistry? If I say that I am looking for a long-term relationship, does that mean that if they aren't then they will ghost me? Or that if they are then they will assume that if I agree to go out for coffee that it is a romantic date? If I say that I am looking for a hook-up (which I am not....but let's just say hypothetically) and that's what they are looking for too then am I suddenly obligated to hook up with them?

I just don't understand the question.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to therapy this afternoon.

 

[breathemusic]

That really sucks to have things go so far south with Laptop. But it sounds to me like he was basically using lies of omission as a way to avoid conflict so that he could get what he wanted without really having to take into account the needs of others. That's pretty shitty.

This actually makes me think about regular discussions in my local poly community about how some people really only date friends or in their friend circles because then they feel like the people they meet are often better quality or are vouched for in some ways, while others, like me, generally never date people who are established friends because, well, they're friends and we just aren't into dating our friends.

I think both things are legit and have their own valid reasoning. However, in your case I wonder if this might be a valuable lesson in weighing what is more important to you, retaining a friendship or the opportunity to explore more. If you have very few people who you can be open and honest with about your lifestyle, then it might be worth it to keep those friendships in the friend box and not risk anything further so that you know you can have trusted friends? Ultimately, it's up to you, but just some food for thought!

As for the "what are you looking for" question on dating sites.... I find that people ask this a lot because so many people either check multiple options on their profile, or often aren't honest with the boxes they are checking and have checked more or different options than what they're really wanting. That, or they're just looking for more elaboration. My suggestion would be that if you're only looking for friendships and community, only check the friend box, and if people ask that question, don't hesitate or be vague and just say "I'm really not looking to date, as I'm polysaturated, but I really want to expand my poly social circles so I'm looking for friends." It might turn some people away, but who cares? Those people are looking for something that you're not anyway, so no point in wasting either of you's time. Also, if you're only looking for friends, it might even be worth modifying your parameters to say interested in any gender, etc because you can then match with any gender for friends, and truly state more obviously in your profile up front that you're looking to build community. Basically, convert it into your OKC friend profile! I mean, I'd suggest making a second one but that takes a heck of a lot of time. Though you could do that if you had the time/energy!

 

[MsEmotional]

No use crying over emotionally unavailable men....

Therapy was good. It was cathartic. I did a lot of crying.

One thing that my therapist said that helped was to that she reminded me that what I was going through was normal for a break-up. And that this is a break-up. We might not have been walking around with "boyfriend-girlfriend" hats on, but that doesn't mean it's not painful that this relationship came to an end.