Feeling lost...excluded?

[Bi-polycurious?]

So my wife of five years has had a thing for a close friend of mine for a couple of years.
18 months ago we discussed a purely sexual MMF encounter with him and he was on board with that.
The relationship between them has since grown considerably to the point she’s now open about the fact that she loves us both.

The first time I witnessed her say “I love you” to him felt like a punch in the chest, and elicited an emotional response that I can’t even quantify. It wasn’t jealousy or anger, or betrayal. I don’t know what it was, but it knocked the wind out of me.

I find that as their relationship grows, I feel like my friendship with him is beginning to become secondary to their relationship (understandable from his point of view but still a hard pill to swallow).

I feel like she’s having fun with a second boyfriend, he’s having fun with his girlfriend and I’m somehow just hanging around on the outside. I feel like an outsider in my own marriage somehow.

Any ideas on how to navigate this?

I should point out that I’m bisexual, and interested in him sexually and emotionally. He’s also bi but primarily focused on his attraction to her.
I’ve tried meeting other guys but I don’t get the same romantic/sexual energy with guys that I do with women, and living in a small town makes it difficult to find women interested in getting involved in a poly setup like we have.

I’m doing a lot of reading and started meditation etc to manage my emotional response, and I communicate with them both more than I’ve ever talked to anyone else before, which I think is the key here.
I guess I’m just looking to verbalise how I’m feeling and se if anyone has any better take on how I manage this.

 

[GalaGirl]

You sound lonely. Are you?

I find that as their relationship grows, I feel like my friendship with him is beginning to become secondary to their relationship (understandable from his point of view but still a hard pill to swallow).

What would you like to happen instead in terms of time management? Did you want some time on his calendar to hang out just you two friends?
Do you ask?

I feel like she’s having fun with a second boyfriend, he’s having fun with his girlfriend and I’m somehow just hanging around on the outside. I feel like an outsider in my own marriage somehow.

Why? Do you actually ask your wife out for just you and wife time? Or up til now just took that time for granted and didn't bother asking? Like spouses have "automatic dibs" on each other's free time?

I should point out that I’m bisexual, and interested in him sexually and emotionally.

Does he even know? Or did he turn you down because he's only interested in wife? So you are also dealing with bummed out feelings that you don't get to date him too? Plus envy that wife does?

I’ve tried meeting other guys but I don’t get the same romantic/sexual energy with guys that I do with women, and living in a small town makes it difficult to find women interested in getting involved in a poly setup like we have.

Are you happy in the poly set up you are in? Were you only up for a sex encounter and not really prepared for poly?

I guess I’m just looking to verbalise how I’m feeling and se if anyone has any better take on how I manage this.

You could look at the need inventory list

Needs Inventory | Center for Nonviolent Communication

www.cnvc.org

and the feelings inventory list

Feelings Inventory | Center for Nonviolent Communication

www.cnvc.org

and circle the ones that apply to see if they help you articulate where you are at with your needs and feelings at this time.

HTH!
Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Bi-polycurious,

I wonder if part of what you are feeling is fear. Fear that you are going to lose your wife -- fear that you are going to lose your close friend. Every time the two of them get closer together, you feel them pulling away from you. No wonder you are feeling punched in the chest, you are losing both of them at the same time! At least you feel that you're losing them. You fear that you're losing them. This may not even be a conscious fear, it may be subconscious.

I think you should sit down and explain to both of them that you feel lost and excluded. You see them sharing love with each other. You would like them to share some love with you too. Worst case scenario, they could turn you down, but at least then you'd know where you stand, and you could build on that. On concrete facts, rather than floating around in this limbo of uneasy feelings. Anyway I think you should sit down and talk with them.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Bi-polycurious?]

You sound lonely. Are you?

Yes, I think that’s a big part of it.

What would you like to happen instead in terms of time management? Did you want some time on his calendar to hang out just you two friends?
Do you ask?

There’s no issue with us hanging out, but our personal circumstances leave us both very time poor (we both have kids and are both shift workers), so actually catching up has always been problematic.

Why? Do you actually ask your wife out for just you and wife time? Or up til now just took that time for granted and didn't bother asking? Like spouses have "automatic dibs" on each other's free time?

We have heaps of time together, it’s not physical time that she spends with him that causes my angst, I think it’s learning to accept the fact that she loves someone else, and that it doesn’t mean she loves me less. Just a learning curve I suppose.

Does he even know? Or did he turn you down because he's only interested in wife? So you are also dealing with bummed out feelings that you don't get to date him too? Plus envy that wife does?

No it’s not that, we’ve had a discussion about where we’re both at. He’s less comfortable with his bi sexuality than I am at this stage, and he’s expressed to my wife that in the future he would be happy with a completely poly relationship where we all cohabitate together. He’s got problems with acceptance from his family/social groups etc to manage before we get anywhere near there though.

Are you happy in the poly set up you are in? Were you only up for a sex encounter and not really prepared for poly?

Maybe? I think long term I’ll be happy, I’m just having trouble adjusting to a life outside the social norms I’ve been raised with / condition

You could look at the need inventory list

Needs Inventory | Center for Nonviolent Communication

www.cnvc.org

and the feelings inventory list

Feelings Inventory | Center for Nonviolent Communication

www.cnvc.org

and circle the ones that apply to see if they help you articulate where you are at with your needs and feelings at this time.

HTH!
Galagirl

Thankyou.
I’ve answered the points you raised, more so for myself than anything else.
As usual you cut through the noise and get straight to the crux of the issue. I’ll follow those links and do some more soul searching, some more conversations with them both and keep working on my own well being.

thank you again.

 

[Bi-polycurious?]

Hello Bi-polycurious,

I wonder if part of what you are feeling is fear. Fear that you are going to lose your wife -- fear that you are going to lose your close friend. Every time the two of them get closer together, you feel them pulling away from you. No wonder you are feeling punched in the chest, you are losing both of them at the same time! At least you feel that you're losing them. You fear that you're losing them. This may not even be a conscious fear, it may be subconscious.

I think you should sit down and explain to both of them that you feel lost and excluded. You see them sharing love with each other. You would like them to share some love with you too. Worst case scenario, they could turn you down, but at least then you'd know where you stand, and you could build on that. On concrete facts, rather than floating around in this limbo of uneasy feelings. Anyway I think you should sit down and talk with them.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

Yes, a huge issue is fear.
I’m terrified of losing my wife (she’s also my closest friend).
I’m terrified of losing my friend (he’s my closest friend second only to my wife).
I’m terrified of the idea that they both somehow see me as an inconvenience or obstacle in the way of their happiness.
I realize this is all not the case, but I’ve struggled with feelings of self worth for a long time, so it’s not too difficult to end up at the bottom of the rabbit hole where I convince myself they both want me out of the way.
I’ve discussed this with them both and at times they’ve both said they’ll stop contact with each other to prevent me feeling like that, so I know I’m being paranoid but it’s a difficult mindset for me to change.

 

[GalaGirl]

It sounds like you all want to be hear, and things are going pretty well actually. Enduring growing pains after this change, but all talking and taking it easy.

I might be wrong, but it sounds like internal conflict more than external conflict then?

I think it’s learning to accept the fact that she loves someone else, and that it doesn’t mean she loves me less. Just a learning curve I suppose.

Well, if a lot of the "special" in sharing love with her came from you being "the only one" then you might have to update your views/beliefs about love.

I don't know if any of these help you.

Free Downloads from Opening Up – OpeningUp.net

And the "core beliefs" in this one

kathylabriola.com - UNMASKING THE GREEN-EYED MONSTER: MANAGING JEALOUSY IN OPEN RELATIONSHIPS

By Kathy Labriola, Counselor/Nurse JEALOUSY IN OPEN RELATIONSHIPS In my counseling practice, I work with many people who have chosen to have open relationships--to have more than one intimate sexual relationship. The biggest obstacle to creating successful and satisfying open relationships is

www.kathylabriola.com

I’m just having trouble adjusting to a life outside the social norms I’ve been raised with / condition

I imagine living in a small town in pandemic doesn't help.

Are you able to "get out" over computer and mix with people who share your current views more?

I realize this is all not the case, but I’ve struggled with feelings of self worth for a long time, so it’s not too difficult to end up at the bottom of the rabbit hole where I convince myself they both want me out of the way.

I’ve discussed this with them both and at times they’ve both said they’ll stop contact with each other to prevent me feeling like that, so I know I’m being paranoid but it’s a difficult mindset for me to change.

Are you able to catch yourself when you do this "doom thinking" stuff?

What happened to you that made you become your own self bully?

Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

I’ve struggled with feelings of self worth for a long time, so it’s not too difficult to end up at the bottom of the rabbit hole where I convince myself they both want me out of the way.

GalaGirl asked you what happened to you to make you feel this way? That's a big question, of course.

My ex h had such deep issues around feeling unworthy of love, that he couldn't even explore them in therapy. Eventually his/our therapist had to tell him he was not going to get anywhere then, and she let him go. I hope you could be willing to explore your feelings of being unworthy. Polyamory really takes confidence.

Be that as it may, I see that you thought your wife just had some "hots" for your shared guy friend. However, sexual feelings often follow feelings of attraction to a person as a whole, not just their body, but their personality, their smell, the certain shape their mouth takes when they grin, their sense of humor, their tastes and interests... And then, there's love.

You can be loved by her. He can be loved by her. But right now, they are in this intense infatuation phase. This is set up by nature. It's a hormonal state similar to a feel good drug like Ecstasy. It will pass in time. But newly poly people in this state of new relationship energy (NRE) tend to not realize that their behaviors can deeply wound their more established partner.

Read this

kathylabriola.com - ARE YOU IN POLY HELL?

COMMON PITFALLS IN OPEN RELATIONSHIPS Many people who are in a primary relationship stumble into an outside relationship either by choice or by chance, and once involved, things can go beautifully or can go terribly awry. Here are some of the most common problems that develop and some ideas for

www.kathylabriola.com

 

[Bi-polycurious?]

GalaGirl asked you what happened to you to make you feel this way? That's a big question, of course.

My ex h had such deep issues around feeling unworthy of love, that he couldn't even explore them in therapy. Eventually his/our therapist had to tell him he was not going to get anywhere then, and she let him go. I hope you could be willing to explore your feelings of being unworthy. Polyamory really takes confidence.

Be that as it may, I see that you thought your wife just had some "hots" for your shared guy friend. However, sexual feelings often follow feelings of attraction to a person as a whole, not just their body, but their personality, their smell, the certain shape their mouth takes when they grin, their sense of humor, their tastes and interests... And then, there's love.

You can be loved by her. He can be loved by her. But right now, they are in this intense infatuation phase. This is set up by nature. It's a hormonal state similar to a feel good drug like Ecstasy. It will pass in time. But newly poly people in this state of new relationship energy (NRE) tend to not realize that their behaviors can deeply wound their more established partner.

Read this

kathylabriola.com - ARE YOU IN POLY HELL?

COMMON PITFALLS IN OPEN RELATIONSHIPS Many people who are in a primary relationship stumble into an outside relationship either by choice or by chance, and once involved, things can go beautifully or can go terribly awry. Here are some of the most common problems that develop and some ideas for

www.kathylabriola.com

Hey,
Thanks for the reply.
I honestly don’t know where the feelings of low self worth come from. It’s been a long term thing. It hasn’t really affected my life overall, I’m relatively successful in my career, I’ve got an amazing wife and my kids are great so objectively I’ve really got nothing to complain about.
I am able to catch myself now as I slip into that self hate trap and reason myself out of it, which helps but it’s still a struggle, albeit less so today than 6 months ago.
I think you’re right about the NRE thing. If I put myself in their position I understand completely where things are...I suppose it’s a jealousy thing that they’re enjoying that emotion while I’m not? I’m online trying to connect with new people, so hopefully that’ll stop me focussing on them and I can focus on myself instead.

Thanks for taking the time to reply to me everyone and for the links, they make good reading and are a great resource for me.
I don’t have any friends that I would feel comfortable discussing our poly marriage with so it’s been therapeutic to actually talk to some real people about it. Thanks again.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am able to catch myself now as I slip into that self hate trap and reason myself out of it, which helps but it’s still a struggle, albeit less so today than 6 months ago.

Then you are making progress, right? Just maybe hard to see when you are in the middle of a doom think. Maybe it's ok to just think/feel whatever, note it, and not do anything about it other than notice it happening and reasoning yourself out of it. Over time see if they come fewer and farther in between.

You are all in a transition space. The "old normal" is gone, the "new normal" is not quite here yet. It's NORMAL for stuff to feel really weird in the transition space.

I think you’re right about the NRE thing. If I put myself in their position I understand completely where things are...I suppose it’s a jealousy thing that they’re enjoying that emotion while I’m not? I’m online trying to connect with new people, so hopefully that’ll stop me focussing on them and I can focus on myself instead.

Jealousy is when you have something you fear someone else will take away.

Envy is when someone else has something you want for yourself.

Sounds like you envy them being in NRE, even though you understand it. It's ok to envy them that.

And maybe trying to date yourself will help take your mind off it. Or maybe it will pile on more people problems into the mix when you already are stressed. Only you know what you can handle and some things you find out through doing or trying it out.

But however it is it unfolds for you, it is ok that poly dating on your side doesn't exactly match how things unfold for your wife or your friend. It's not like poly dating is a "race" or "competition" or something.

Galagirl