First post and seeking advice

M

Mwf71

New member
Technically my second post as my first was somehow deleted when I tried to send..

Hi, new to poly and your site. I still need to kick around and get more info, but wanted to ask for advice.

I have been married to my wife for 15 yrs, been together nearly 18. In the past 4-5 months I met a new lady friend that feelings of friendship have turned to love. It is strange as we both feel we have known each other all our lives. Only other person I have felt this with is my wife.
My friend is currently going through a divorce, last 3 yrs, with no end in sight. So I have time to try to figure out what to do next. We are hoping in the next 6-9 months it will be over.
We have talked and she is not interested in living with my wife and I, or sharing our bed. She wants her own place and I agree. I have two children with my wife and she has three with her ex. Will this kind of situation work in your opinion? When talking through this, our plan is that I spend time with both the women I love and perhaps over time we do things together.
The problem is I do not feel my wife would be ok with this. I have equal feelings of love for both women. I do not think she will be able to concepualize this.
With my friend's time line still being a ways out before she could even move forward, I am struggling on how to bring this up to my wife. She does not know my friend, my friend lives half way across the country.
So, any support would be appreciated. This version of my first post isn't as good as my first, and I know you will have questions for clarity. I look forward to them as it will help me try to understand my feelings and this process better.

Thank you in advance.

Michael
 
Welcome Michael.

As to the disappearing post, if you tick the "remember me" box when you sign in it keeps you from timing out. Otherwise just remember to select and copy your message so if you have timed out you can paste it in when you have signed back in. Or even compose it elsewhere and paste it in here.

For your poly situation, I was in a similar place three years ago. I made a good friend online and then found we had fallen in love. I had not fallen in love with someone that way since getting together with my husband, Tam. New Relationship Energy is an overwhelming brew of happy brain chemicals sloshing through you. There were some days that I was scared because I was so crazy in love I was not entirely rational. Luckily Tam has never been a jealous person and because he had seen things developing when I could not, he was willing to believe me that I did not want to leave him.

My thought for you is that you should try as hard as you can to slow things down with your new love. Those NRE chemicals are telling you that this is an incedible meeting of hearts and minds, and it may well be, but you won't really know until you get to know each other in a more rational way.

Since you seem to have a long time before your relationship can progress much see if you can at least dial it back to dear friends. Then you will be in a position to introduce her to your wife without expectations and pressure. Tam and Ray hung out online both before and after romance entered the picture. You also can start bringing up ethical nonmonogamy in a casual way. Treat it as you would a political or philosphical discusion, not as a sales pitch.

I tried to be as rational as I could in getting to know my Significant Other, Ray, but there are plenty of things you cannot learn at a distance. Long distance NRE is evidently some of the hardest to cope with as the longing for contact adds another layer of emotion. If you are having to keep odd hours to be in touch with your new love then disrupted sleep patterns are going to make things even harder for you. It sure did for Ray and I.

I don't want to be a total wet blanket. At the moment Ray is in the next room watching some TV show and Tam is in the living room playing a computer game. Later we might chivvy my kids off to eat dinner out. I love them both and they are each stretching themselves to make this work. Ray doubts he can live with us long term, and is pretty sure his child would not get along with ours so future arrangements are unclear.

This loving two people has been about 20 After School Specials' worth of lessons on life, love and personal growth which, honestly, has been a big pain in the butt. I'm sure it has been good for us but still not what I thought I was signing up for.

I hope my thoughts are of help.

Leetah
 
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So, let me see if I have this correct: you have developed a full-fledged emotional (not sure about physical) affair, and are hoping your wife accepts this and is okay with splitting your time and resources with your new love even though you've kept her totally in the dark and planned an entire other life without her?

This isn't likely to go well. I am sure you know that.

Poly can evolve from cheating, which is what you are doing (even if no sex is yet involved); but, it's frankly pretty rare. You new love lives across the country...how, exactly, do you plan to "split time" with your wife and this new woman? Will your wife be left to care for two children on her own while you fly across country on holiday? Are you okay with your wife developing a new love, and you taking care of the children while she flies across country to spend time with him? Do you have the total income to do this kind of thing and not have it impact your current commitments?

I don't mean to be a downer, but it's time for a reality check. New love is exciting and all that. But, what, exactly, would your wife get out of this situation? Has she ever expressed any interest in a poly relationship, or being a co-wife (and, it's weird you'd even ask your new love about living with you or sleeping with your wife....why did that even come up if they have no intimate connection themselves? I'd be pretty upset at my partner even suggesting I share my home and sex with someone I am not independently interested in, let along going so far as to having discussed it without me as an option)? You and this other woman have made these plans without, seemingly, consulting you wife at all. How would you feel if someone planned your life for you, especially in a way entirely contrary to what you'd agreed to (I am assuming you are not currently poly, given your post, and agreed on monogamy as a relationship shape), without even bothering to talk to you about it? I'd wager you'd be pretty angry. You can bet she will be, too.

There's a reason cheating relationships rarely end in poly. Sure, it happens, but it's very rare, and any case I've heard of or known has taken a very long time rebuilding relationships, and putting a total stop or hold on the cheating relationship in the interim. (There are a few here that happened from cheating, and you can read their stories in their blogs...not an easy road for them!).

You need to talk to your wife honestly, even if that means going to a counselor/therapist so you have a safe space. But, really, depending on how old your kids are, it's not a terribly realistic situation to pursue (if they're younger and need a lot of care, especially), and if they're older and can look after themselves, you're almost certainly going to, at the very best, have a long road ahead that doesn't look like the fun, rosy, NRE-filled landscape you currently inhabit in your mind. More realistically, it'll end with one or both women, depending on what your wife decides is best for her and what she wants in a relationship.
 
Leetah, thank you for your insight. Yes, we have been taking things slowly. We talk daily, but due to her messy divorce and me being married, we can not talk to anybody about this. So we are kind of adrift. There is no rush and talk frequently about not moving past "arms length." Thank you for your comments, I hope others are comfortable with providing additional advise and suggestions.

Michael
 
GreenAcres said:
So, let me see if I have this correct: you have developed a full-fledged emotional (not sure about physical) affair, and are hoping your wife accepts this and is okay with splitting your time and resources with your new love even though you've kept her totally in the dark and planned an entire other life without her?

This isn't likely to go well. I am sure you know that.

Poly can evolve from cheating, which is what you are doing (even if no sex is yet involved); but, it's frankly pretty rare. You new love lives across the country...how, exactly, do you plan to "split time" with your wife and this new woman? Will your wife be left to care for two children on her own while you fly across country on holiday? Are you okay with your wife developing a new love, and you taking care of the children while she flies across country to spend time with him? Do you have the total income to do this kind of thing and not have it impact your current commitments?

I don't mean to be a downer, but it's time for a reality check. New love is exciting and all that. But, what, exactly, would your wife get out of this situation? Has she ever expressed any interest in a poly relationship, or being a co-wife (and, it's weird you'd even ask your new love about living with you or sleeping with your wife....why did that even come up if they have no intimate connection themselves? I'd be pretty upset at my partner even suggesting I share my home and sex with someone I am not independently interested in, let along going so far as to having discussed it without me as an option)? You and this other woman have made these plans without, seemingly, consulting you wife at all. How would you feel if someone planned your life for you, especially in a way entirely contrary to what you'd agreed to (I am assuming you are not currently poly, given your post, and agreed on monogamy as a relationship shape), without even bothering to talk to you about it? I'd wager you'd be pretty angry. You can bet she will be, too.

There's a reason cheating relationships rarely end in poly. Sure, it happens, but it's very rare, and any case I've heard of or known has taken a very long time rebuilding relationships, and putting a total stop or hold on the cheating relationship in the interim. (There are a few here that happened from cheating, and you can read their stories in their blogs...not an easy road for them!).

You need to talk to your wife honestly, even if that means going to a counselor/therapist so you have a safe space. But, really, depending on how old your kids are, it's not a terribly realistic situation to pursue (if they're younger and need a lot of care, especially), and if they're older and can look after themselves, you're almost certainly going to, at the very best, have a long road ahead that doesn't look like the fun, rosy, NRE-filled landscape you currently inhabit in your mind. More realistically, it'll end with one or both women, depending on what your wife decides is best for her and what she wants in a relationship.
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Sorry, I wasn't clear in my original post. She would move here. My comments about cohabitation stems from some research I conducted that indicated that many poly couples live together. As I said, or should have said, this is a new concept to me and I do not know the logistics of how this would/could work. Both my and her children are 10yrs old or older. Income would not be an issue. Honestly, things are not rosy in the slightest. I see no clear, easy road ahead and that is why I have come here. I have no interest in hurting anybody. That is what keeps me up at night. I appreciate your candor. Thank you.
 
Mwf71 said:
Sorry, I wasn't clear in my original post. She would move here. My comments about cohabitation stems from some research I conducted that indicated that many poly couples live together. As I said, or should have said, this is a new concept to me and I do not know the logistics of how this would/could work. Both my and her children are 10yrs old or older. Income would not be an issue. Honestly, things are not rosy in the slightest. I see no clear, easy road ahead and that is why I have come here. I have no interest in hurting anybody. That is what keeps me up at night. I appreciate your candor. Thank you.
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It is actually not terribly common for poly metamours in a "V" to live together. It happens, of course, but it's complicated, at best, and so most "V" shapes tend to live apart. There are several members here with more than one primary relationship where "arms" of the V do not cohabitate. In my experience, that is far more common that cohabitating poly families/Vs/etc. Triads, which is 3 people having a romance/sex, are even ore rare, and generally explode spectacularly.


Think on the other parts of my post. How would you react if roles were reversed? What will you do if your wife wants to be able to have other relationships of her own, too? Why should your wife, if she's not inclined to poly herself, want to renegotiate your relationship shape? Love is not a finite resource, but time, money, etc. are. And the social implications can be pretty dramatic, depending where you live. Currently, your wife would be giving up your time, at least some assistance raising and caring for the children, her (perceived) social status as your monogamous wife, some of the marital finances (unless you and she already keep those separate), and a host of other things. You would be the only one benefiting in this scenario. You need to think about what would be beneficial, useful, and desirable for her from her point of view, too, if you have any hope of this ever working. Your current plan of the other love moving to be with you benefits only you and your other love, not your current wife.

I am not saying it's wrong to want what you want, or to love more than one person (obviously, since this is a poly board). I am saying that you are currently caught up in NRE, and need to slow down, take a step back, and realize that you're being fairly selfish at the moment. How do you move that needle back towards fairness and caring for all involved?
 
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Yes, I do realize I am being selfish, a character trait I despise. One of the primary reasons for coming here. Was hoping for a little less judgement and a bit more understanding and assistance on how to proceed, if I even do proceed.
 
The questions I asked above aren't judgement, they're things you need to consider, weight, and possibly change if you have any hope of things working out in the way you desire. Your wife will need to see your desired new relationship way as beneficial for her (and your children, I'd assume), and you need to be prepared to address that.

As the saying goes: a goal without a plan is just a dream. Right now, you're living in a dream. You want to take it to a goal. So, you need a plan. To make a plan, you need to move back from the dream and into the reality of the situation and assess what is going on. You know you've got a rather selfish dream right now. And that's fine--we all have those. But, you want it to become a reality, which means figuring out how to take it from being selfish to being, at the very least, reasonable for everyone (and, even more desirable, to make it desirable and beneficial for everyone).
 
GreenAcres said:
The questions I asked above aren't judgement, they're things you need to consider, weight, and possibly change if you have any hope of things working out in the way you desire. Your wife will need to see your desired new relationship way as beneficial for her (and your children, I'd assume), and you need to be prepared to address that.

As the saying goes: a goal without a plan is just a dream. Right now, you're living in a dream. You want to take it to a goal. So, you need a plan. To make a plan, you need to move back from the dream and into the reality of the situation and assess what is going on. You know you've got a rather selfish dream right now. And that's fine--we all have those. But, you want it to become a reality, which means figuring out how to take it from being selfish to being, at the very least, reasonable for everyone (and, even more desirable, to make it desirable and beneficial for everyone).
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I apologize, I have not given an accurate description of the situation. My other and I have made no plans for her to move here, it is just talk at the moment. I came here to attempt to gain perspective on the best course to follow forward. So that I know how to make the happy dream become reality, if possible. There are multiple factors in play and all this could very well end up being all talk and no action. I honestly do not feel I am wrapped up in happy brain chemistry as I am attempting to proceed with caution, in a logical, and realistic way. You all have brought up many insightful points that I had not considered being very new to this. However new it is, it DOES feel natural and "right." I also understand at this point in time it has been all about my other and me, but again, that is why I am here. Thank you all for the thinking points and comments. I am eager to create a plan that will enable me to proceed in the most fair and responsible way for all parties involved.
 
I am sorry you struggle.

When talking through this, our plan is that I spend time with both the women I love and perhaps over time we do things together. The problem is I do not feel my wife would be ok with this.
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Sounds like you want to be in a "V" with Friend and Wife as your partners. And each partner has her own home. You would be the one to go back and forth.

  • Your friend is willing and seems to consent.
  • You are willing and seem to consent.
  • For this to work, wife needs to be willing and consent. You do not have this piece yet.

I am eager to create a plan that will enable me to proceed in the most fair and responsible way for all parties involved.
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If that is the goal? If it were me in your shoes? I would address the consent issue first. Don't be making any more plans with your Friend. It is putting cart before horse. Get consent from ALL parties first.

Tell Wife you have a crush on Friend. You would like to pursue a "V" model polyship with you as the hinge that has two partners. Is she up for this? Or not?

If wife does NOT consent? Respect that her consent belongs to her. She doesn't have to be up for everything you are.

Once you know where Wife stands on this? You have some decisions to make. If wife says no?

  • You could choose to let go of this idea and Friend. You remain with wife in a Closed Marriage model. Possibly spend some time healing it if bringing this up upsets her and shakes her faith in the marriage/you.
  • You could choose to let go of marriage to Wife, and pursue Friend.
  • You could choose to let go of BOTH Wife and Friend. Spend some healing. Then pursue poly later on with other people.

If wife says she's interested? Then you guys could educate yourselves more. Perhaps these links help.

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles
https://www.morethantwo.com
http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/

These may be of particular interest:

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/14_steps_to_opening_a_relationship.pdf
http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/A._Wagner_-_Avoid_the_Pitfalls_of_Polyamory.pdf
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articl...nster-managing-jealousy-in-open-relationships
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell

If all consent to consider poly? It still might not be a match. All of you need to talk and may have to better define what kind of V model you want to practice together and what the expectations around that are. Is this a Closed V where nobody dates anyone else? Is this an Open V where Friend and Wife also date other people? Something else? What open model is this? What about birth control, avoiding pregnancy, and STDs? Managing communication, and resources like time and money for dating?

If you guys try it on and find it does not work, what is the break up plan? Will it go all the way down to everyone single? Talk this out. Better to have a plan, than for things to blow up and THEN be trying to make a plan with everyone all hot headed.

If this relationship with Friend is an emotional affair... wife might not be up for it. Or maybe she is... just not with THIS friend in the mix.
http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/

HTH!
Galagirl
 
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I think your best course of action would be to completely cool it with your new friend. You are not in any position to even fantasise about a poly relationship, because you need to have the consent and agreement of your wife for that. I think it's past time to talk to her about all of this. There is absolutely no point at all in continuing this day-dream with your friend, and having both of you fall even harder for one another than you already have, when you know full well your wife will likely be hurt and upset by the fact that a) you have not come to her with this before talking to friend, and b) want to renegotiate your marriage vows in the first place. Honestly, this process would be much easier if you didn't have a ready-made girlfriend waiting in the wings and you had gone to your wife at the first inklings of developing feelings.

In the slim eventuality that your wife is also interested in having an open relationship, you and she have a great deal more to discuss before you involve anyone else's feelings and emotions into the mix. What's done is done, as they say, and you are in this situation now, but I strongly advise you, if it's to have any hope of working out, that you be honest with your wife about your level of feelings, what you have already done/discussed with this woman, what lines (if any) you have crossed, and start rebuilding trust with your wife as soon as possible. Your poly dream is years away from coming to any fruition, and that's even if your wife is wanting to go there. So apologise to your friend for getting her hopes up, and start talking to your wife.
 
GalaGirl said:
I am sorry you struggle.



Sounds like you want to be in a "V" with Friend and Wife as your partners. And each partner has her own home. You would be the one to go back and forth.

  • Your friend is willing and seems to consent.
  • You are willing and seem to consent.
  • For this to work, wife needs to be willing and consent. You do not have this piece yet.



If that is the goal? If it were me in your shoes? I would address the consent issue first. Don't be making any more plans with your Friend. It is putting cart before horse. Get consent from ALL parties first.

Tell Wife you have a crush on Friend. You would like to pursue a "V" model polyship with you as the hinge that has two partners. Is she up for this? Or not?

If wife does NOT consent? Respect that her consent belongs to her. She doesn't have to be up for everything you are.

Once you know where Wife stands on this? You have some decisions to make. If wife says no?

  • You could choose to let go of this idea and Friend. You remain with wife in a Closed Marriage model. Possibly spend some time healing it if bringing this up upsets her and shakes her faith in the marriage/you.
  • You could choose to let go of marriage to Wife, and pursue Friend.
  • You could choose to let go of BOTH Wife and Friend. Spend some healing. Then pursue poly later on with other people.

If wife says she's interested? Then you guys could educate yourselves more. Perhaps these links help.

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles
https://www.morethantwo.com
http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/

These may be of particular interest:

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/14_steps_to_opening_a_relationship.pdf
http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/A._Wagner_-_Avoid_the_Pitfalls_of_Polyamory.pdf
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articl...nster-managing-jealousy-in-open-relationships
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell

If all consent to consider poly? It still might not be a match. All of you need to talk and may have to better define what kind of V model you want to practice together and what the expectations around that are. Is this a Closed V where nobody dates anyone else? Is this an Open V where Friend and Wife also date other people? Something else? What open model is this? What about birth control, avoiding pregnancy, and STDs? Managing communication, and resources like time and money for dating?

If you guys try it on and find it does not work, what is the break up plan? Will it go all the way down to everyone single? Talk this out. Better to have a plan, than for things to blow up and THEN be trying to make a plan with everyone all hot headed.

If this relationship with Friend is an emotional affair... wife might not be up for it. Or maybe she is... just not with THIS friend in the mix.
http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/

HTH!
Galagirl
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GG, thank you, lots of info to digest!
 
tenK said:
I think your best course of action would be to completely cool it with your new friend. You are not in any position to even fantasise about a poly relationship, because you need to have the consent and agreement of your wife for that. I think it's past time to talk to her about all of this. There is absolutely no point at all in continuing this day-dream with your friend, and having both of you fall even harder for one another than you already have, when you know full well your wife will likely be hurt and upset by the fact that a) you have not come to her with this before talking to friend, and b) want to renegotiate your marriage vows in the first place. Honestly, this process would be much easier if you didn't have a ready-made girlfriend waiting in the wings and you had gone to your wife at the first inklings of developing feelings.

In the slim eventuality that your wife is also interested in having an open relationship, you and she have a great deal more to discuss before you involve anyone else's feelings and emotions into the mix. What's done is done, as they say, and you are in this situation now, but I strongly advise you, if it's to have any hope of working out, that you be honest with your wife about your level of feelings, what you have already done/discussed with this woman, what lines (if any) you have crossed, and start rebuilding trust with your wife as soon as possible. Your poly dream is years away from coming to any fruition, and that's even if your wife is wanting to go there. So apologise to your friend for getting her hopes up, and start talking to your wife.
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Thank you, we actually have backed off into the friend zone over the last few weeks.
 
Greetings Michael,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

It is difficult to know what your options are until you have your talk with your wife. So I encourage you to have it soon. It might be a hard talk, but that's a risk you have to take.

Keep us posted if you're willing.
Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.

Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!
 
Being in the beginning stages of divorce is NO time for anyone to start a new relationship, especially one that is further complicated by polyamory with someone who is married and new to it all, and distance. Even if the divorce is something she wants, it's a major upheaval of her emotional and practical life, and certainly needs her full attention rather than escapism into fantasies about a new lover. Many professionals say it takes generally two years after a divorce before one is okay inside their own skin and able to make rational decisions. I know that the relationships I got into very soon after my ex and I separated suffered because I hadn't fully integrated this huge transition in my life, and I made some ridiculous decisions.

Don't go there.

Instead, I would look at your own marriage and take stock of how it's going, to figure out why *you* needed this escapist fantasy. Are you happy? Feeling connected? Satisfied? Communicating well and honestly? At the very least, if you and your wife ever do choose to embrace poly, this approach to relationships demands that people be healthy and well-functioning in themselves and in their relating skills - but it's just as important in monogamy. So, stop and see if there is any housecleaning that needs done. Only from a strong foundation and complete and utter honesty do relationships thrive, whether poly or not.
 
nycindie said:
Being in the beginning stages of divorce is NO time for anyone to start a new relationship, especially one that is further complicated by polyamory with someone who is married and new to it all, and distance. Even if the divorce is something she wants, it's a major upheaval of her emotional and practical life, and certainly needs her full attention rather than escapism into fantasies about a new lover. Many professionals say it takes generally two years after a divorce before one is okay inside their own skin and able to make rational decisions. I know that the relationships I got into very soon after my ex and I separated suffered because I hadn't fully integrated this huge transition in my life, and I made some ridiculous decisions.

Don't go there.

Instead, I would look at your own marriage and take stock of how it's going, to figure out why *you* needed this escapist fantasy. Are you happy? Feeling connected? Satisfied? Communicating well and honestly? At the very least, if you and your wife ever do choose to embrace poly, this approach to relationships demands that people be healthy and well-functioning in themselves and in their relating skills - but it's just as important in monogamy. So, stop and see if there is any housecleaning that needs done. Only from a strong foundation and complete and utter honesty do relationships thrive, whether poly or not.
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Great insight nycindie, thank you!
 
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