Friends in exes

1

1234567

Member
So, after a 3 month period for feelings to settle, my request, I contacted my ex about being friends- transtioning into friendship being her request, and mutually wanted, and at one point, it was established by her that she wasn’t okay with her girlfriend saying who she was friends with, which is what had me considering it.

Th reason we broke up was because she got in a relationship with me while I was dating someone else, and then back into a relationship with someone monogamous, who agreed to try, and it was too much to juggle, and she was happier with the other person. We had some incompatibility around boundaries in sex to work out; they were compatible in more ways than we were.

All legitimate, and okay with me.

Because the end straw was her girlfriend just not being able to handle my being a date (we could have worked out the other stuff with time, and it would have been worth it), I asked that she give it more time and space if she anticipated that to make her girlfriend feel better if she experienced jealousy, she might be treating me differently than she would a non-ex, or an ex her girlfriend wasn’t jealous of.

Work to be okay with adjusted treatment because a third party can’t handle their emotions being something I am a bit raw around, and think I need to put boundaries on taking on.

My ex thinks it’s fine, but wants to give it time to be a BIG THING because things have suprised her by being a big thing before (or a little thing when expecting a big thing) so will get back to me after they’d have had a couple visits together.

I’m, I’ve recently discovered, more RA than poly. I can do poly because I am RA, not the other way around- RA as an offshoot of an inherent polyness. It is not the framework that I have always acted from, but adhering to RA principles give me peace when I come around to them. And are where I eventually settle into when things get rough. (I’m defining relationship anargcy, among other things, as the belief that all relationships are important and have intrinsic value and worth, and that while everyone can - and should - structure their lives to leverage the good, meaning you are free to balance relationships as YOU feel fit, including exclusivity in certain areas if you run that way, no relationship should be minimized, deligitimized, or purposefully fettered in order to build another up.)



So this whole “my girlfriend has a say in whom I’m friends with” baffles me a little. Especially when it’s commonplace in the queer world to befriend exes, and she has an enduring, non-threatening platonic relationship with another ex.

To be frank, it feels completely odd that even in thought she entertains the thought she lets her girlfriends feelings affect how she treats me.

Nevertheless, if it feels good to her to have to check in about such things, it’s okay, I guess- though I worry somefor her- isolation from people because of jealousy is still isolation from people, even if it’s socially sanctioned.

What I feel good about though- is myself minimizing my risk. I told her that I would prefer to back off and give them all the space they needed to work it out so that they could come to an enthusiastic point of agreement that a friendship with me was a positive, sanctioned, thing.

Because it is incredible CP to expect that just because a couple is having trouble negotiating emotional safety and autonomy around friendships that I should ever risk being in the crossfire of that. And I’m not buying into that.

I wish I’d made that a requirement for the rest of my life, and expect will going forwards.

I might not end up poly- but I might end up more secure.

Cautions and perspectives about this whole situation welcomed.
 
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Clarification if needed- my ex was “poly open” when we dated; probably would have been fine in a well-functioning poly situation, as she enjoyed the poly bit, just not the hinge bit, but is willingly functionally monogamous now- monogamy being preferable to juggling two people’s very different needs.

I’m not that far off. I could be either willingly, but don’t enjoy being a newer leg of a V on a tricky poly situation. Which I’ve allowed myself to be a bit too often, I’m realizing.
 
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Hi 1234567,

It sounds like you broke up with your ex, then, after a period for feelings to settle, wanted to transition into a friendship with your ex (and she had suggested it) ... but, now the ex's girlfriend is saying that she doesn't want the ex to be friends with you. Is that accurate on my part? If so, I am thinking maybe you want to take a step back, and let your ex work things out with her girlfriend, before attempting a friendship.

It sucks that her girlfriend is acting that way, I don't understand it.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Is this the same people from the other threads? At this point in time, Apple and you broke up and are trying to be friends? And Banana doesn't want Apple to be friends with you? If so?

To be frank, it feels completely odd that even in thought she entertains the thought she lets her girlfriends feelings affect how she treats me.
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Does not sound all that weird to me.

In your other thread you seem to acknowledge that Apple worries a lot about what other people think of Apple. So Apple worrying about what Banana thinks is par for the course.

This is still unfolding/only been two weeks since that thread and I don't know how many days since the break up was "final." You all need time to adjust. One doesn't adjust in mere days.

What I feel good about though- is myself minimizing my risk. I told her that I would prefer to back off and give them all the space they needed to work it out so that they could come to an enthusiastic point of agreement that a friendship with me was a positive, sanctioned, thing.

Because it is incredible CP to expect that just because a couple is having trouble negotiating emotional safety and autonomy around friendships that I should ever risk being in the crossfire of that. And I’m not buying into that.
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You are correct. If you keep getting dinged in the cross fire of whatever couple problems they have going on because you keep trying to remain close to them post break up?

You could stop trying to be close right now and enjoy not get dinged any more.

If a new friendship will come out of this later on once everyone is full healed? Let that happen later on.

Right now? I think you'd all be best off taking a time out and a break from each other to heal from the break up separately.

Galagirl
 
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GalaGirl—
Does it just sound “common” to you that people let others control who they are frejnds with, or would you consider that an okay, healthy behavior to take on?

I feel it as unethical- but wondering if that is my ethics, or general ethics,
even if common behavior.

I see it dangerous to give in to jealousy as a controlling factor, as well as inevitably controlling and diminishing to not, instead, develop the security and trust to know you will voluntarily keep to behavior that will nurture your relationship as well as enjoying your friends.

I know there was a friend my ex-husband had extremely poor boundaries with;; the friend had extremely poor boundaries with; was not at all healthy for me to hang around with- and while I loved because he was a friend, did not really LIKE. At all. Yet, he was part of my husband’s (mono) chosen family, and Yherefroe respected and tolerated and welcomed by ng.

I never would have even considered restricting their friendship- I was glad he was good for my husband. And encouraged it.

To do otherwise would have been— weird — and I would be interestwdnin other perspectives
 
Thank you for clarifying it is a different group of people. It's hard for me to keep track without names.

Does it just sound “common” to you that people let others control who they are frejnds with, or would you consider that an okay, healthy behavior to take on?
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I've seen it happen. I don't think it is rare. But I also don't think it is always healthy.

I've seen it in the context of not wanting to think. So the person just allows some other person to take over their decisions and responsibilities.

I've seen it in the context of an unhealthy dynamic. Isolating people from friends and family is a tactic abusers sometimes do. Then there isn't anyone to point out how weird things are. And the victim doesn't notice the incremental, slowly developing weird. At first it doesn't seem like much. Accommodating this or that so the other person doesn't get mad or upset. It's just "life as normal." But over time other stuff piled on that got more and more.

I know there was a friend my ex-husband had extremely poor boundaries with;; the friend had extremely poor boundaries with; was not at all healthy for me to hang around with- and while I loved because he was a friend, did not really LIKE. At all. Yet, he was part of my husband’s (mono) chosen family, and Yherefroe respected and tolerated and welcomed by ng.

I never would have even considered restricting their friendship- I was glad he was good for my husband. And encouraged it.
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I don't resonate with "I love him as a friend but I don't really like him." I either like someone or I don't. If I don't like them, I'm not going to love them as a friend.

If my spouse took up with someone I did not like? I would tell spouse I don't like them, why, and leave it up to spouse to socialize with them. But don't expect ME to hang around with them. Why would I waste my time hanging out with people I dislike? Rather than go hang out with my own friends? He can go see his friends, I can go see mine. We aren't joined at the hip.

In 20 something years I've only asked spouse to cut ties with people twice. Both times were because of abuse. The latest one was a guy who was beating his wife in secret. So I wanted no part of that man any more, and I didn't want him coming to my house to dinner. Fortunately, spouse agreed that he wanted no part of him either any more. And the wife eventually divorced her husband and got away from him and all his weird.

If it was really bad like that (as opposed to mere dislike) and spouse did not listen to me? Well... I could end it with spouse. Because if they pick out someone who is so ugh to pal around with that I start to lose respect for spouse and their judgement? Why would I keep hanging around spouse?

Every adult gets to pick who they want to be hanging around with for themselves.

Galagirl
 
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It’s not a place I am now, but it was a small community who was close anyways, and like I talked about, he was my husband’s chosen family. In the end, I socialized when I wanted to, for sure, but I was so grateful because we had moved away from my husband’s community for my work; my ex disn’r
Speak the language well enough to make good friends outside the Englis speaking community, which was small- and here was someone who liked the same music and brightened his life. I could forgive his difficult personality and self-absorption to give my ex a social life. And join in with them so I had the joy of socializing with him and someone else. And like any family, chosen or not— when someone is around enough, and you bond enough, through gsgared experiences- there’s is often love.
 
I hope you don't take this the wrong way, 1234567, but I got hopelessly lost while reading your post. I really wasn't sure WHO you were talking about, or what your question really was/is.

If you still need advice or answers on this topic, could you please consider summing up/re-capping the situation, using nicknames or the like?
 
I didn't get the whole story straight, because your post was confusing to read. From what little I could make out, it is sounding like you have poor boundaries yourself and this ex and her partner are causing a lot of confusion and distress in your life and it is unclear why you are giving an ex that much power to dictate your happiness.

In your place, I'd stay away and leave it to the ex to figure out her life and partners and friendships and what she will allow her partner to dictate and what she will not and so on and if it all totals up nicely, she can ask you for a relationship - whether as lovers or friends and you can look at the present at that time and see if you can participate joyfully.

There. Solved.

An ex is an ex. Clinging to hope, making accommodations, settling for whatever contact possible and so on will only prolong your misery and confuse you with the confusions of other people sorting out their lives where you aren't even on the radar of their priorities.
 
Boundaries are difficult and complicated to figure out at times, but I don’t think I’ve let anyone recently go over the line of what makes me happy without quickly addressing and adjusting, (letting other bust my boundaries) and don’t feel I’m intruding on other’s happiness (busting others)

Or was that just a quick misread? I know the conclusion we tend to jump on here is “you’re doing it wrong” - and I’m interested in genuine feedback if I’m missing something, but thought I kind of had it down- even if the figuring out part is still laborious and tedious and a lot of work.
 
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And yeah, I think a recap or names would be helpful next time.
I tend to post what I think are posts containing the relevant info for that question, but people have longer memories than I give credit for. I couldn’t see it confusing when I was talking about one- past- partner- and it was assumed it was a current one I broke I only with (which I would have dissolved) and went on from there.

I’m also rather abstract in my thinking, so feel free to skip if it doean’r Resonate
With you.
 
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And, no, not a ton of confusion and distress- just earned caution.

I was wanting any collective wisdom from people who had made friends successfully from an ex situation that involved a jealous partner, or could provide a perspective. It’s a path I haven’t done before, but one I suspect would be fruitful.

One thing addressed recently in another post was loneliness, and I’m looking at my potential connections of all kinds, in liu of datinf or expecting things out of people theuxcan’t give.

Out of about 9 exes in the area, this is about the only one I really think would be worth turning into a friend, so I am being discerning about it. I usually just move on- but I loved the friendship as much as anything in this case, and she wants a friendship too- talked about that WAY before breakup if she had to choose as her hoped for path, and is enthusiastic about the possibility, so I don’r Think I’m reading wrong.
 
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1234567 said:
What in there was poor boundaries?
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A weak boundary isn't just about someone stepping into your space. It is also you wandering outside it in a manner that isn't useful to your well being.

This is also reinforced by the confusion about which people you were talking about - the stories seemed similar enough to indicate a pattern.

What you should be doing is moving on with your life and priorities. She broke off with you. She didn't keep her word about starting a friendship with you in three months. Three months are over. You stop waiting. Make new friends.

No friendship offer in three months means not friends. This is a boundary. The one you aren't even seeing because you blew past it analyzing their lives and actions.
 
Some good advice here, particularly:
GalaGirl said:
If my spouse took up with someone I did not like? I would tell spouse I don't like them, why, and leave it up to spouse to socialize with them. But don't expect ME to hang around with them. Why would I waste my time hanging out with people I dislike?
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anamikanon said:
Clinging to hope, making accommodations, settling for whatever contact possible and so on will only prolong your misery and confuse you
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1234567, what is more important to you: the answer you WANT, or the answer you NEED?
 
I think you’re tolally missing- maybe because of my communication- that there was no boundary busting by either of us regarding contact. I thought I might need 3 months- left that open, but was predictive. She responded by, “not what I want, but i’ll Totally respect it. I’ll be in contact with you in 3 months. I asked if it was okay to check in earlier- for a delighted yes.

We’re well within what we set up. We may not be sticking to the letter of the law, but we’re reaching the intent that the boundary was set up to propose.
 
Also, I thought I posted, but not showing up— that is life-changing about the idea about poor boundaries are also about wandering into areas that are bad for you— and I would add, staying.

I think my plan is to give it a try— because of the great potential for good, which I know to Be there’s ne side of intangibles I can’t sum up-- but be ready to back out.

Could certainly apply that “try and decide, not try and take on” to other situations, too. That has me feeling a lot less stuck,

It’s very much my personality to check out potential good situations when they exist. That’s a good thing about me I don’t want to change. . It’s got to be part of it for good health to not automatically continue them just because they started. That bit is goingg under construction now, :D


And, Ravenscroft— I think it’s not a binary- take the advice offered as written based on my imperfect portrayal or not grow. P

The important thing to me is to arrive at a solution that feels - right - that has a good chance of success, that looks to bring about teost happiness. that is tailor made to me and the situation as I live it- not as I imperfectly portray it. (And certainly as my imperfect portrayal gets interpreted.)

This, I think, is that.

Thank you all for your insight and help
 
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I am going to sum up. I might get it wrong. You correct me if I miss anything.

But to me here are the highlights as I see them. I quote just to visually block it off.

BACKGROUND

I have an ex with a GF. This is NOT Apple and Banana from previous threads. This is new people. Call them Fern (my ex) and Holly (her GF).

Usually I just break up with people and move on. But I loved the friendship with this ex, and if possible would like to change our relationship to “good exes and friends.” She also says that she wants to be good exes and friends.

PROBLEM

The problem is that her GF Holly has issues with us being exes and friends. Fern says she's not ok with Holly telling her who she can and cannot be friends with. In actions, Fern is telling me to wait. She thinks it will be ok in the end but for now wait in case Holly makes this be a BIG THING. So we seem to be accommodating Holly now rather than just moving on to hang out as friends.

So it's like say one thing, do another to me.

I find it weird that Fern lets her girlfriend's feelings affect how Fern treats me. I wonder if Holly is isolating Fern from other people... but in the end it is Fern's decision.

I myself don't want to deal in drama or get in the middle of their things.

I told Fern that I would prefer to back off rather than “wait in the wings” and give them all the space they needed to work it out.

Fern expecting me to wait around or get in the middle of it? That is not reasonable to me.

I wish I’d made that a requirement in other areas of my life. From this point on, I will have this as a personal boundary. “I don't leave me in the middle of a cross fire. I bow out.”

Once Fern has it together, then I'm willing to try to be friends again. But I'm not willing to be in the middle of couple drama.

WHAT I NEED

I am seeking advice or other POV from other people who have been in these shoes before – trying to be friends with your ex when their current partner is jealous about that.
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In your other thread, you were asking how to make better use of forums and improve your communication. I think writing more organized could help you get what you need more quickly. Not using nicknames and the ruminating writing style are fine... but if you choose that style then you have to accept that it might take people longer to "get" what you are trying to say. It can be hard to follow. I've been having a very hard time keeping up.

You might consider having a blog thread where you work out your thoughts in "rough draft" and then post a summary to Poly Corner when they have come together more clearly. That could be another way to use the boards.

EXTRA DATA CONFUSION

I see that in writing you realized you are more RA, and then you were thinking about your ex-spouse and his friend.

You seem to be in a "take stock of my life" mindset. That is fine to do.

But I do not think it helps to keep the focus of this particular thread tight if you pile data from many life areas into it. I think some confusion entered there. You could keep one main thought per thread to help responders reply to you better.

YOU know your life story and how it all fits together. Others do not.

WORD USE CONFUSION

I think there might be a another confusion happening here.

I think part of the confusion in your posts are the words "agreements" and "personal boundaries." You seem to use them interchangeably. Are they the same to you? Perhaps taking a moment to calibrate word use is helpful here. They are different to me. And perhaps to other posters.

I think you’re tolally missing- maybe because of my communication- that there was no boundary busting by either of us regarding contact. I thought I might need 3 months- left that open, but was predictive. She responded by, “not what I want, but i’ll Totally respect it. I’ll be in contact with you in 3 months. I asked if it was okay to check in earlier- for a delighted yes.

We’re well within what we set up. We may not be sticking to the letter of the law, but we’re reaching the intent that the boundary was set up to propose.
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To me? That is an agreement between you and Fern (your ex gf). To me? That is not a personal boundary you set up for yourself to obey.

What I feel good about though- is myself minimizing my risk. I told her that I would prefer to back off and give them all the space they needed to work it out so that they could come to an enthusiastic point of agreement that a friendship with me was a positive, sanctioned, thing.

Because it is incredible CP to expect that just because a couple is having trouble negotiating emotional safety and autonomy around friendships that I should ever risk being in the crossfire of that. And I’m not buying into that.

I wish I’d made that a requirement for the rest of my life, and expect will going forwards.
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You have recently arrived at a new personal boundary. That you don't want to get in the middle of other people's things and leave you in a crossfire. That part to me is the personal boundary.

Other people don't have to obey it. They might even try to suck you into their drama. But YOU could obey it and stay out of it.

Other people do not have to agree with where you draw your limits. But you don't draw them to help them. You set up personal boundaries to help keep you safe and free from shenanigans. You draw them and stick with them to help YOU.

CONCLUSION

I think it is fine to step back and let Fern and Holly sort out whatever. You don't have to be involved in all that. You could obey your new boundary.

If/when Fern actually has it together and is actually able to be friends with you, be friends who hang out at that point in time.

For now, just be good exes who don't hang out as friends.

Hope that helps some.

Galagirl
 
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