Fucked up, coming clean

rdos, even if sex weren't a factor--and I know that for some folks on here, it isn't--some people still prefer openness and honesty. For example, informing partners of when you're seeing another partner. Informing each other if you meet someone new. Those apply whether sex is involved or not.

I was speaking from my own experience, because sex *is* part of the equation for me, but it isn't the only part. I had a completely G-rated lunch today with S2 in a public park, but still had to tell Hubby and Guy about it by the terms of our agreements.
 
Hi alm,

There's an interesting thread that is related to this dilemma of yours: Confessing a Past Affair. You might want to read it.

Re (from alm):
"I mean its been over four months since this happened ... a bit later won't make a difference ..."
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How much is a bit?

Re:
"So my plan was to give it a bit more time, and make this the best relationhsip I can, and be the best and most honest person I possibly can ... and then come clean, when I feel I have given it my all ..."
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And when will you feel that you've given it your all? a timetable would be a good idea here. How do you quantify "your all?" Does any human ever truly give their all? Maybe in the Olympics ... What about in relationships? Aren't humans inherently flawed in their relationships? So again I ask, how to quantify "all," and when will you arrive at "a bit more time?"

Re:
"We are having some issues and I would really rather wait until it settled a bit ..."
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And how do you know it'll settle (a bit) before some new issues crop up that are just as bad or worse? I sense that you're waiting for "the ideal time to confess," and I don't know that such a time exists. You're always going to have a good reason to think, "I should wait a few more days ..." "I should wait a few more weeks ..." "... a few more months ..." "... a few more years ..." When does it end? You really need to settle on a maximum amount of time that you'll wait before you'll get this confession over with.

Re:
"Should I take this to the grave with me?"
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In theory: perhaps. In practice: it sounds like it'd be a hard secret for you to keep for that long, considering the amount of guilt you're carrying. Would you like this confession to be forced out of you five or ten years from now, after your girl calls you on your obvious burden of guilt? Would you like your girl to start conducting her own investigation into what you've been up to, when she can see that something's not right? Would you like to be the one to tell her, or would you rather she discover your secret without your help? Is taking it to your grave important enough to gamble on the odds that she won't find out? that she won't squeeze the information out of you?

Re:
"Is this an unforgivable sin or do you think if I show her how committed I am to be honest about it now I'd have a chance to not lose her?"
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This won't be what you'll want to hear, but the hard truth is that you might lose her and you might not. There's no way to guarantee what's gonna happen, one way or another. And really, it's her right to make her own decision about whether she wants to forgive this and trust you again.

I do tend to think that the longer you wait, the worse it will get. You'll feel increasingly guilty, and the pending fallout will grow and grow. If you have any chance of saving the relationship, your best chance is right now -- not in a week, not in a month. Waiting until conditions are favorable would just tell her that she can only trust you to tell the truth when the conditions are favorable. Is that what you want her to think?

You've worked your way up the side of a cliff, with no protection, and now you can't remember how you got up there. You can't remember how to get back down. You're probably going to have to jump, and you have no way of knowing whether you (read: the relationship) will survive the fall. Trying to escape by climbing up or down is likely to compromise your ability to jump cleanly.

I regret that you are in this predicament. It's unfortunate that I can't say I think there's a way to make it easier. All your options suck at this point. No matter what you choose, and no matter what plan you follow, you're going to be taking an awful gamble. There's just no getting around it.

If it helps, you can keep posting here and we'll try to talk you through it if things go south.

Re (also from alm):
"I don't want to do it before some therapy sessions in, because I know I will enter a very very dark place if I lose her ... I hope I get a therapy place soon ..."
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I hope so too. How soon do you think that will be?

Sorry man. I hope things turn out okay.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Thanks Kevin,
I think it will help to post here, at least have people with experience in this kind of relationship help me out, and be anonymous about it... or just cry my heart out, I am only human and I never intended to hurt her...

This might sound so ridiculous, but I actually always thought I had a high moral code... I know terrible hypocrecy... when it first happened I didn't feel all that bad... it sounds ridiculous to say it now but i hadn't FELT like I cheated... through the social programming I had, cheating implied no physical liations when they weren't permitted... At that point everything was so opaque, she wanted to know because "else she'd feel like it meant more to me than it did" or so was my understanding... I never saw anyone again and to be honest it was kind of more a "well might as well"...

After we set clear boundaries and rules (about month 2 or so) I didn't touch anybody in any way, but by then I was to scared to tell what happened, and I still rationalized I hadn't cheated...

Afte ri finally kissed somebody and told 5 days after it happened, she almost broke up... and then it hit me the implications of what I had done... ... imagine her reaction to 4 months...kind of like hearing that time u drove drunk you actually ran over somebody... since then I havent slept much, lost 10 pounds, started smoking again... jesus...

I know all my options suck, and I'll be in a world of hurt... My best friend told me to go out the front door... If I know she is going to break up, I might as well just end it up without giving the reasons...

Then again that would still be deceiving... and if there was any way of keeping her in my life I would...

I definitely want to tell her as soon as I can... we were supposed to meet while travelling which she is for a month, but i am in no condition to face this in a hostel somewhere in eastern europe, so I probably will just lose the money... I was thinking of taking her things to her appartment when she was back, and say it then... I definitely don't want to do it via text...

It really hurts to go out the villain in this...I really did a lot to be with her, and entered a relationship without any preparation and completely under the rules she had stipulated... I know it's not an excuse but I jut really want to convince myself I'm not an unethical asshole... this has been a very though lesson...

I still just have no clue of what I'll say and how, and seeing how she won't be back for a month doesn't make it easier...

thank you again for the heads up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by copperhead View Post
"The mistake that defines Richard untrustworthy is not the affair, but keeping the secret. Making a mistake, even a prolonged one is not what defines people. It's waht you do after you realize you've made a mistake. In this case Richard is lying and leading Barbara to live a lie. And Madison is in it too. So how they handled the crisis is what defines them untrustworthy."
 
its funny how the human mind works...once i realize i have really wronged somenody, i just cant get over it...how i convinced myself 4 months that i had done nothing out of the stipulated is beyond me...

do you guys think its better to talk ot in person even if it means waitig a month?

This is pretty torturing...my job is now also in danger...

Is it what you do what defines you?
Are you a fuck up if you fuck up?
So mich through my mind...again thanks a lot guys :)
 
I think you are cranking up your own anxiety.

If you want to tell, tell. By phone, letter, email, in person, whatever. It is not the method, but the telling. Since you do not sound eager to wait? Letter, email, or phone then. You could not go on this way with anxiety taking over and endangering your job.

Maybe something like...


"I want to tell you something. I shared sex with x. It was on (date). This was before it really clicked for me...I did not fully understand what kind of open model we were trying to practice... I thought it was DADT. I did not understand that it isn't the sex but the telling that matters to you. I have been scared to tell you ever since. I wanted you to know though, so now I am telling. You are important to me and meeting my agreements with you matters to me.

I am sorry I have not been able to tell until now. In future I will try to handle that better and tell within the time frame you require.

I ask for your understanding and forgiveness. I would like opportunity to make amends if you are willing. I am so sorry. "
​

People make mistakes in their behavior but it does not mean they are a mistake themselves... Like they never should have been born or something. If I pee on the floor, I peed on the floor. It does not make me pee. I am a person who made a mistake. I am not pee.

Do your part to return to right relationship. I hope she will see you are genuinely sorry and can accept the apology.

Hang in the there,

Galagirl
 
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It's odd to me, having all these unknown time frames ... such as when she's gonna be back ... She didn't give you a date? [shrug] Weird. Not the end of the world though I guess.

No, you are not a bad person. Heck if you were a bad person, you wouldn't be feeling so guilty. If I were you, I would try not to beat myself up any further. You recognized a mistake, you want to fix it, and you're working on a plan to fix it. That's good enough.

I'd like to think that she'd be willing to forgive you. You're new at this poly stuff and it's no surprise if you accidentally goofed something up. Surely she can understand that? but, I know that she is her own person and it is up to her how she reacts to your confession. *It's not your fault if she breaks up with you.* That would be her decision, not yours. You're trying to save the relationship (and do it the right way).

Everyone I know makes mistakes. We even make big mistakes. If we just keep beating ourselves up over being human, it only makes it all the harder to fix the mistakes (to the extent that they can be fixed). I know I've made huge mistakes, and I do beat myself up over them. But I shouldn't.

Your mistake is now in the past and you don't have a time machine. Don't try to tie yourself to the past. Live in the present, and figure out what you want to do today, not tomorrow or yesterday. Not to say we can't learn from the past and plan for the future, but let's not get so carried away that we forget the here and now, which is the only point in time we ever really have.

I am pulling for you and hope things work out okay for you.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Perhaps I am unusual, but to me, intent matters a lot. It is plain that you did not fully understand the relationship rules. I see no intent to hurt her in your actions.

As for not understanding the relationship rules, that is just as much on her as you. A relationship and its parameters are decided and understood by two people - not by one as the other gropes blindly and hope he does okay.

I certainly do not think the situation as you've laid it out is unforgivable. It just depends on whether she chooses to see hurtful intent in your actions or chooses to keep working on the process. The thing of it is, she does have a choice, and most situations are not black and white.

Personally, I do not like to be around people who choose to see hurt where none is intended.
 
Well do any cheater ever intends to hurt anybody? Probably not...

It was by all means an act of self preservation. I have a form of ocd, it comes in crisis...in a mono relationship i found out very graphic details of an exes past affair which catapulted me into a crisis and ended up breaking the relationship. I was extremely wary of getting into this, but i knew she wouldnt have it any other way...the encounter was around the second week or so (at this point im not even sure if i already KNEW i had to tell about it), and when it happened i just figured, well she'll have sex very soon, and this will help me to cope with it...

However i did lie, i said i hadnt had sex with anybody, which really isnt true, because at that point i already knew the implications this would have and was pretty sure id lose her if i did...When i kissed somebody and didnt tell for 5 days she threatened to end the relationship if i ever did that again...that was when it hit me that the implications were this big, and hey new ocd crisis...

I guess at this point there is no much left to save... she really puts honesty over compassion and...well can be a hypocrite sometimes. when she told me about a lie 5 days later (about something different but non the less) i just said...ok i know u had ur reasons to lie...and when i did she almost breaks up...also she had a similar situation with an ex (where she after a fight slept with someone else and the flat out denied it for months for fear of losing him)...i asked her once if she would have liked to be forgive ...she said yes of course...I asked then if se thought she deserved forgiveness...emphatic NO
 
Its so funny...i was so scared of she having sex with others and that throwing me into a crisis...thats why i had sex in the first place and partly why i didnt tell...and that very thing ended up doing it...shit im neer ever ever lying about anything again :( i started on medication again...ill wait until it kicks in to say everything...
 
I hope the medication helps. Hang in there.
 
Thanks a lot for the support!

So after seeing a therapist and taking meds he adviced to give the antidepressants a little time, and get first the incredibly high levels of anxiety under control until i decided what to do...

I was compelled to go the route of "learn from your mistakes" but it was just too hard, so I decided to tell her,

I did, I said I went on the dates where no sex was involved, even though i didnt mention the goodnight kisses, and said I had seen a girl and had sex with her one time. I explained I had never really understood what this was about, and that like I went about with flirting (as in I wouldnt tell in a monogamous relationship if i flirted with anybody), I really just rationalize that I wasn't cheating... that I had never heard of ethical non monogamy and that I had always just... well... lived with secrets in the past.

I obviously plan on disclosing everything, since ahalf confession is even worse than non at all, but we decided we needed to sort out what we felt before we talked. It was very emotional and the hole subject of the sex really took over the whole argument (it is also obviously the biggest breach of contract)...

She reacted... quite sober, which really surprised me... I cried and cried and cried and was basically shaking... she knew something had been up with me anyway since I've lost weight, have lost all interest from all I do, and well was not sleeping and on Antidepressants so in a way I think she really did feel bad for me; she knew I was not feeling like I got away with anything, and that this had been a lot harder on me than it was on her...

Still, she doesn't know what to do (which is obvious) and doesn't think she can trust me again, but feels she needs time to sort her head and still sends me messages saying "I miss you" which is really fucking with my head... I feel kind of like a convict awaiting a death sentence especially since i still have to bring the last details up...

Confessing this was the saddest, more angstfull, scariest and most relieving thing I've done... even though I feel like my heart has been stabbed, I can look at myself in the mirror again, which I guess is worth a lot...

Now the question... what do I do moving forward? How do I discuss the details of everything I havent said? I basically only gave an overview of everything... Do I give her space? Do i only write to her if she writes to me? Since we live in different cities I dont want to have any sort of conversation until we are face to face, and being the shithead I am I made the confession 2 hours before having to leave...I said enough that if i could turn back time I would do everything different, and that if i had really known how this was supposed to work and hadnt been so scared of jealousy it would all have been different... to what she responded "what a copout"

I really appreciate your input...the thread related was incredibly interesting and really fueled my desicion...

Thanks again for all the feedback
 
alm said:
Now the question... what do I do moving forward? How do I discuss the details of everything I havent said? I basically only gave an overview of everything... Do I give her space? Do i only write to her if she writes to me? Since we live in different cities I dont want to have any sort of conversation until we are face to face, and being the shithead I am I made the confession 2 hours before having to leave...I said enough that if i could turn back time I would do everything different, and that if i had really known how this was supposed to work and hadnt been so scared of jealousy it would all have been different... to what she responded "what a copout"
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Discussing Details: Ask her if she needs any more details? If she says "NO", say "Thank you! Coming forward with this is very difficult for me but I'm willing to tell you anything you want to know".

Giving her space: Did she ask for space? If not, just keep in contact, every conversation doesn't have to be a re-hash of how you screwed up.

DO - apologize for waiting until just before you left before dumping this on her.
DO - let her know that you are seeing a therapist and are working on dealing with your anxiety issues. Discuss better (more clearly defined) boundaries - see GalaGirl's comments earlier in this thread.

My husband also has a hard time telling me stuff "he" thinks might upset me. Drives me batshit crazy, because by the time he does come clean with something, it's has now turned into lies and deception on top of more lies, which pisses me off much more than the original issue.
 
You did not treat her well or like she wanted to be treated when you broke agreements. Here is opportunity to treat her well and how she wants to be treated while she considers her next steps.

Confessing this was the saddest, more angstfull, scariest and most relieving thing I've done... even though I feel like my heart has been stabbed, I can look at myself in the mirror again, which I guess is worth a lot...
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Yes. Maintaining one's self respect is worth a lot.

Now the question... what do I do moving forward? How do I discuss the details of everything I havent said? I basically only gave an overview of everything... Do I give her space? Do i only write to her if she writes to me?
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Apologize. Clean and simple. You sound like you have some of that done, but do it again if you haven't covered it all.

  • Apology, ask for forgiveness
  • Own what you did wrong
  • What you are doing about it and how it will be in future
  • Ask for opportunity to make amends, or opportunity to part ways in peace.

Something like --

"I miss you too. I want you to know that I am very sorry. I apologize and ask for your forgiveness. I was wrong to cheat like that. I hurt you. I deeply regret my behavior and in future I plan to ask for clarification first rather than acting out my fears. Toward that end I am working on my problems with a therapist and with medication for anxiety and antidepressants. I wanted to make you aware of that.

I don't know if WE have a future. I would like it very much.

I would like opportunity to make amends. I know that opportunity is yours to grant or not. You have every right to call it off for breech of promise. I hope you will consider over the next month and give me another chance. Unless you say otherwise I will wait patiently for you to contact me while you are thinking things out. If I don't hear from you before X, I will contact you then."​

Then leave it be. I'd wait a month for serious relationship talks -- if nothing, I think it is safe to call it "Not a Joyous Yes" for starting again. In the meanwhile, if she texts she misses you or something, acknowledge but don't take it as opportunity to dump all your anxiety stuff on her head. Keep it light. "Miss you too. Hopeful we can work it out."

I get that it is uncomfortable and anxiety provoking to be in the Limbo Space -- but it is appropriate for the situation. Living with a certain level of anxiety for a few more weeks is a small price of admission to pay if you want her to consider giving it another shot with you. Vent elsewhere.

She has a load to process too -- don't make her do hers AND some of yours. You own yours. You waiting and giving her that month's time/space without dumping new load on her? I think that's a decent thing to do. Comfort in, kvetch out.

Galagirl
 
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We still talk every day basically all day, and I try my best not to dump any anxiety on her but obviously I have a bit more than "some"... she has a fwb now which I guess help ease out the blow a little bit; she says she isn't breaking up with me (just yet) but obviously I don't know how she'll feel after we have the talk... I plan to write down the story of our relationship, with everything that happened, with every thing I felt, when I realized that I had been doing this all wrong; tell her every little secret I had, even the ones that didn't make me feel guilty, because I want her to see that I mean it, that even though I know it might make the situation worse for me I want to have the most honest relationship possible; and if she then decides to walk away, she has every right to...

She knows how sorry I am, she knows keeping this inside had devastated me, she saw my health getting fucked, and I think that at least made her have empathy for what i went through through my own mistakes...

Obviously until that talk everything is still open; obviously even though she wont break up "now" she might after the talk... who knows... I am obviously very very anxious but doing my best to own that...

I'll keep you guys posted... thanks!
 
So this one might have a happy ending...

We kept talking and today I asked her if she wanted me to visit, and talk about everything on the weekend. She said she wanted me to come, but also said she didn't want to talk, she had forgiven me already... I didn't want to say anything else over the phone since I feel like I owe her to at least ask directly if she wants any more details about the dates. She basically forgave that I had sex with someone and that I went on these dates; she doesnt know I goodbye kissed them... I don't know if I am being too moralistic; on the other hand if she can understand me having sex due to lack of understanding and that it didn't click until much later, I guess she wouldn't change her mind with this new inmformation, but i don't know... I also never want to lie to her again if we move forward, and I don't like the idea of keeping information...

I was planning on telling her (since she was clear she has forgiven the sex)

"I really never want to lie to you ever again and I really don't want there to ever be any secrets between us; I made a chronicle of our relationship so far with the things i kept from you, the bigger and the smaller, what was going through my mind when it happened, what i was feeling, when I started to understand what a poly relationship should be like, and everything i couldn't/didn't say because I was just way too nervous last week to even think about; if you stand by your word that you don't want this conversation any more and you feel like forgiving me, I'll take your word for it and leave everything that happened before behind us; if you want to know all the details, we can talk... I am aware this might make it worse but i want you to know everything about me, and I want us to have the right relationship, without anything between us"...

Any thoughts?
You guys have helped me a lot...
thanks
 
Re:
"She doesn't know I goodbye kissed them ..."
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Me personally, I don't see that as a big deal, considering you already told her you had sex with someone. When people date, it is customary to kiss at the end so she might already be assuming that.

If you want to offer to tell her more if she wants to know more I guess it's fine to offer, as long as you don't push the issue or want to tell her just for your own sense of closure. If she says she's heard enough, then I would take her word on that and let that be the end of it.

Glad to hear she has been forgiving about it.
 
alm said:
I am aware this might make it worse but i want you to know everything about me, and I want us to have the right relationship, without anything between us"
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I'd leave this phrase out and stick with:

I really never want to lie to you ever again and I really don't want there to ever be any secrets between us; I made a chronicle of our relationship so far with the things i kept from you, the bigger and the smaller, what was going through my mind when it happened, what i was feeling, when I started to understand what a poly relationship should be like, and everything i couldn't/didn't say because I was just way too nervous last week to even think about; if you stand by your word that you don't want this conversation any more and you feel like forgiving me, I'll take your word for it and leave everything that happened before behind us; if you want to know all the details, we can talk...
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Your chronicle will likely benefit you more than it will her. My husband offered to give me any details I wanted and once the offer was made, I realized that I didn't need or even want any of the details. I think what would be most helpful is determining how the miscommunication occurred and how it can be corrected and avoided in the future. First place to start is "No Assumptions" from either of you.
 
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