Greetings

[WillI]

Hi, I am new to this forum, and polyamory. I'm a 34 year old male grad student married to a female (N) of roughly the same age. Having read many posts here, I am absolutely delighted to find such a thoughtful, diverse group of people.

For a long time I've had struggles with strong feelings and attraction to more than 1 person at a time. I thought it was hurtful or unfair to one or both of them. So I distributed "niceness" equally to all my acquaintances all the while engaging in a hidden LDR or two. Sometimes girls became jealous but they couldn't pin me down because I was nice to them all. Crazy huh?

Now it has started dawning on me that perhaps it is OK for me to be romantically involved with more than 1 person. I have finally opened up to N about this, and I am surprised with how understanding she has been. Yet it is a little scary for her. She says it's exciting to her for me to have other interests, though. I'm encouraging her to be more open minded in her own life, and she has, in my estimation, made progress.

To be clear, I'm interested in deep, loving emotional connection not just sex.

Question 1: So if you're starting to date to someone who is in an official marriage with someone else, how do you promote honesty rather than cheating and affairs? Ask them "how would your spouse feel about us being together"? I know the answer is to be open, but I feel like I need more practical instructions.

If they're, say, "new to poly" and not disclosing enough (in my judgment) to their spouse, is it generally worthwhile to work on getting them to talk to their spouse, or should I just give up and move on? I don't want to ruin anyone's marriage.

Question 2: Also, is it dumb to look for mature lovers who are already in committed relationships, as a strategy for avoiding drama? It just seems like people in successful relationships have a higher probability of having a successful relationship with me. Whereas, the younger unattached, serial dating girls seem more likely to have these dreams of Mono ecstasy forever after but a *lot* of instability in their love lives.

Maybe the above griping is due to a recent experience on a couple dates with a girl who, it turns out, is just getting over a bad breakup.

Anyway, Hello and thank you for welcoming me to your forum!

 

[Emm]

Q1: I speak to the wife before doing anything more than a quick kiss on the first date and make sure she's fully aware of and supportive of the situation. By that I mean I explicitly ask "Do you mind if I kiss your husband?", just in case there are crossed wires and she thinks he's out with a platonic friend. If he's "not disclosing" then it's cheating rather than ethical non-monogamy in my opinion and I'll have nothing to do with it. Yes, that rules out anyone in a DADT relationship, but that's fine by me.

Q2: I think that would vary depending upon the people involved. Of the three boyfriends I have, the one with the most drama is the one who's been married for 16 years and has an astonishing number of children. The least dramatic is the unmarried one.

 

[WillI]

Thanks

Thanks Emm, that is most helpful. Unsurprisingly, social conventions in support of polyamory were never taught to me.

One other question - how do I add the automated signature that goes at the bottom of every post? I've been through all the configuration pages and don't see it.

 

[Emm]

Click on "User CP" at the top of any page, then it's under "Settings & Options" in the "Your Control Panel" list on the left hand side.

 

[kdt26417]

Greetings WillI,
Welcome to our forum.

There's lots to learn about poly and you can interact with a lot of members here to get the information you need. Check out our Golden Nuggets board too, for some really basic information.

Re:

"So if you're starting to date to someone who is in an official marriage with someone else, how do you promote honesty rather than cheating and affairs? Ask them, 'How would your spouse feel about us being together?' I know the answer is to be open, but I feel like I need more practical instructions."

Well in my opinion, you should ask that question of the person you're dating *before* you date them. And I wouldn't say, "How would your spouse feel about us being together?" either; I'd say, "How *does* your spouse feel about us being together?" In other words, don't mess around with hypotheticals. Get the actual consent from the spouse, and make sure your date has already gotten this consent before the two of you start on your first date together.

You can always form a friendship before talking about dating. For that I wouldn't think you'd need spousal permission. But for that first actual date ... yeah, I'd recommend getting that squared away ahead of time.

Re:

"If they're, say, 'new to poly' and not disclosing enough (in my judgment) to their spouse, is it generally worthwhile to work on getting them to talk to their spouse, or should I just give up and move on? I don't want to ruin anyone's marriage."

Well wait, what do you mean by, they're not disclosing *enough* (in your judgment)? Are they telling their spouse that they're dating someone? If this dating is starting to involve sex, are they informing their spouse of that? If so, then they're probably disclosing enough. No need for them to go into details, unless their spouse wants details I suppose.

On the other hand, it would be nice if you could meet this spouse so he could see who his wife was dating, and so that you could see who your date is married to. Might even be nice to strike up a friendship with this spouse, but these things are technically optional. The important thing is that the spouse is consenting to the basic facts of the dating (and whether it entails sex). At least that's my opinion.

If your date isn't telling her spouse at all about dating you (or not mentioning the sex if there be any), then I'd be a little concerned. I'd recommend straight up saying to her, "Look, you need to tell your husband, and get his consent, before we continue." And if she still doesn't tell him ... yah, I'd strongly consider walking away. You don't want to get tangled up in a secret affair.

Re:

"Also, is it dumb to look for mature lovers who are already in committed relationships, as a strategy for avoiding drama?"

I really don't know. Emm's probably right, it probably has more to do with an individual's personality than it does that individual's age or marital status. I mean, someone in a committed relationship could say, "Well yah, I'm already in a committed relationship; that's exactly what I wanted; no need for me to start dating anyone else." But, really, I couldn't say it is "dumb" to try that kind of strategy, as it sounds as good as any other. Give it a try and see if it works.

Re:

"Maybe the above griping is due to a recent experience on a couple dates with a girl who, it turns out, is just getting over a bad breakup."

Well, this bad breakup of hers, is it affecting you negatively in some way? Perhaps she is turning to you for comfort and if so, is that proving to be burdensome? or, are you just worried that one bad breakup will probably be followed by another, which means you'd be next?

Don't rule anyone out, even if they don't meet all your expectations. Who knows, you might meet someone that you like more than you'd have ever thought you would (and hopefully who likes you too, obviously).

Hope this helps ...
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Natja]

Question 2: Also, is it dumb to look for mature lovers who are already in committed relationships, as a strategy for avoiding drama?

I think it is a good idea, especially if they have some experience in Poly. You never know of course but it is good to try. Young, unmarried women inexperienced in Poly are perhaps a little risky if you intend on following a Primary/secondary model of Polyamory.

 

[JaneQSmythe]

Hello and Welcome!

I had to chuckle when I read this...

Question 2: Also, is it dumb to look for mature lovers who are already in committed relationships, as a strategy for avoiding drama? It just seems like people in successful relationships have a higher probability of having a successful relationship with me. Whereas, the younger unattached, serial dating girls seem more likely to have these dreams of Mono ecstasy forever after but a *lot* of instability in their love lives.

...because that is currently Dude's strategy.

He says that he is only dating married girls from now on - since his relationships with married women (including me ) have all worked out fine and the one's with single girls have been overly dramatic. (And, yes, the "has figured out what it takes to make a relationship work" aspect has come up.)

I would qualify that with the caveat that they be "happily" married/partnered women (or the flip-side, dedicated solo-poly). Someone who is in a troubled marriage and looking for an exit-strategy is as likely to be as drama-filled as one looking for "mono-ecstasy".

But, as others have said, it really depends on the individuals involved - and honesty and openness from the beginning. We are all on OKC as partnered and polyamorous. We go to poly/open Meet-Ups. We never hide the fact that we are already in relationships when we are talking to "potentials" (even though we are not "out" publicly).

It seems like you are starting off on the right foot...I hope this site helps you find the advice and info you are seeking.

JaneQ

PS. We are actually all on OKC just to support Dude's search for another GF - MrS and I are not actively "looking", just open to the idea. But our profile's all link to each other so that anyone that Dude talks to can see that we are all on board and what the dynamic is.

 

[WillI]

I think it is a good idea, especially if they have some experience in Poly. You never know of course but it is good to try. Young, unmarried women inexperienced in Poly are perhaps a little risky if you intend on following a Primary/secondary model of Polyamory.

Thank you Natja, do you care to expand upon the risks? Indeed circumstances dictate that I am apt to follow the primary/secondary model because I have a child and a well-working relationship with my wife - there is an investment there. The sort of drama I was thinking of was:

- Lack of experience with relationships
- Lack of experience with poly specifically
- Lack of experience communicating with partners about basics of what is going on with dating, sex, etc. Adds STI risk!

 

[kdt26417]

I guess it all depends on whether lack of experience is something you're willing to deal with, compensate for, and work around. Everyone gets to choose who they'll consider dating, and what criteria they'll base that choice on. Not my business to dictate that decision to someone else.

I think it would help to spend enough time to get to know the person really well before deciding whether dating them would be desirable. But, that's just me.

If you think someone might have an STI, you should ask them to get tested before even thinking about having sex with them. And use a condom.

 

[WillI]

Hi everyone, thank you for the very enriching responses.

Kevin, I appreciate the trouble that you took to answer my questions.

Well in my opinion, you should ask that question of the person you're dating *before* you date them. And I wouldn't say, "How would your spouse feel about us being together?" either; I'd say, "How *does* your spouse feel about us being together?" In other words, don't mess around with hypotheticals. Get the actual consent from the spouse, and make sure your date has already gotten this consent before the two of you start on your first date together.

I see, makes sense about the hypothetical. Perhaps I assumed that they might have discussed boundaries in the past, especially if the husband lives overseas.

You can always form a friendship before talking about dating. For that I wouldn't think you'd need spousal permission. But for that first actual date ... yeah, I'd recommend getting that squared away ahead of time.

I am confused about such things. Probably I need to learn more about the basics of dating. I'm very inexperienced with dating and don't have many female friends. However I've awakened to the fact that female friends are flirting with me, touching and sitting close and showing attraction to me. If an erotic attraction is acknowledged and accepted to a degree by 2 parties, doesn't that kind of make it a romantic relationship not a friendship?

Well wait, what do you mean by, they're not disclosing *enough* (in your judgment)? Are they telling their spouse that they're dating someone? If this dating is starting to involve sex, are they informing their spouse of that? If so, then they're probably disclosing enough. No need for them to go into details, unless their spouse wants details I suppose.

On the other hand, it would be nice if you could meet this spouse so he could see who his wife was dating, and so that you could see who your date is married to. Might even be nice to strike up a friendship with this spouse, but these things are technically optional. The important thing is that the spouse is consenting to the basic facts of the dating (and whether it entails sex). At least that's my opinion.

If your date isn't telling her spouse at all about dating you (or not mentioning the sex if there be any), then I'd be a little concerned. I'd recommend straight up saying to her, "Look, you need to tell your husband, and get his consent, before we continue." And if she still doesn't tell him ... yah, I'd strongly consider walking away. You don't want to get tangled up in a secret affair.

Thank you. Such clarity. I guess if I want to go anywhere with it I'm going to have to communicate more with her and see what is going on.

Well, this bad breakup of hers, is it affecting you negatively in some way? Perhaps she is turning to you for comfort and if so, is that proving to be burdensome? or, are you just worried that one bad breakup will probably be followed by another, which means you'd be next?

Don't rule anyone out, even if they don't meet all your expectations. Who knows, you might meet someone that you like more than you'd have ever thought you would (and hopefully who likes you too, obviously).

Out of respect for her I forcing myself no to say much, but suffice it to say that the breakup seems rather dramatic and tempestuous. Sure she has turned to me for comfort (venting?). Yes that is a concern - that I could be next. I think I'm going to keep her friends, she seems to have a good heart; I'm bringing her to an event in a group setting in a couple weeks.

By the way I went to the local Polyamory meeting, it was good to interact with them. It was so interesting to see first hand some real life polyamorists who deeply appreciate and love others, and behave with decency and respect towards their lovers.

At moments I wonder, oh my gosh polyamory could create so much jealousy, hurt, pain. But I compare the above with all the cheating that goes on. Isn't the cheating worse? I mean that cheating breaks hearts-the dishonesty breaks trust. Also some mono people go for decades sort of limping along because they think they can't do anything without the spouse, can't get close to anyone else they're physically attracted to. Sure there is some emotional pain that people go through in polyamorous relationships, but it seems to be workable.

 

[kdt26417]

Some people have DADT agreements, which makes any new partners "hypothetical." But in most cases, your best rule of thumb is to get the spouse's okay about you personally.

Friendship = a sympathetic connecting of the minds, hearts, and spirits. Whereas once bodily flirting, touching, and the like enters the picture, then you have a romantic relationship (which I'd tend to hope would develop in addition to the friendship). I guess you might as well start dating once an erotic attraction is acknowledged and accepted to a degree by both parties.

Always communicate enough to know what's going on. I never think of communication as a kind of disrespect; quite the contrary. Unless it seems like prying, but I wouldn't see it that way if I was even thinking of dating the person.

I also recommend taking any new relationship slowly -- no matter what the other person does or doesn't have in their past. You don't want to hurt them, and you don't want to get hurt. Learn painstakingly whether you're really compatible before things go very far.

Lots of monogamous people "cheat," which is probably an indicator that they'd like to be poly but don't dare. The important thing about polyamory is that you aren't hiding anything from any of your partners. Without honesty, you can't take any relationship to the next level.

 

[WillI]

Thanks for that. Food for thought. My gears are turning.