Growing Pains

[Syncert]

Hi all, so I'm incredibly new to all of this. My current fiance and I have been together for about a year and a half roughly. We've been through a number of things together, when I met her and started spending time with her she was married in a monogamous relationship. We since got into a monogamous relationship and got engaged.

About a month ago she came to the realization that she wanted polyamory, with no one in particular in mind at the time. We were going through a break because she was having a breakdown of her mental health, moved out. It was a very difficult month. I've agreed to a polyamorous relationship, we also agreed not to engage in any sexual relationships with anyone until we're moved in together. We've discussed limits and agreed that we would be each other's primaries and always come first. That this will not change our love for each other.

Thus far she has started talking to one or two men, and is going out to the symphony tonight with one of them. I personally havn't met anyone yet although I talked to someone briefly. She hopped on dating sites relatively quickly at the beginning and I followed suit. The jealousy is a bit difficult, even if right now her and this person are just friends and nothing is going to happen past a friendly outing it has different connotations than friendship due to the nature of meeting each other. He's fully informed of the relationship. He travels a lot for work and isn't looking for anything serious.

I feel like I'm going through a loss of everything I wanted, although we've come to all of these agreements I never wanted to be polyamorous. I broke up with her a week after we came to the agreement because I felt I couldn't handle it and wouldn't be able to watch her with other people and not be hurt. I still feel hurt in some ways and the time isn't even divided yet. I'm trying it out because I love her very much and have faith in that love she has.
I realize that I could be monogamous and not see other people, but I also feel if I don't then I'm going to be stuck out and silently resentful that she's seeing someone else.

I do know that these sort of relationships get easier, and we have been 100% honest with each other at every step down this road. My doubts about all of this are really strong right now and I'm not entirely sure if poly is what I want. On the other hand I've never experienced this kind of relationship before and I feel that fear of the unknown could ruin what is in a lot of ways a good relationship despite some flaws.

 

[Ravenscroft]

We've discussed limits and agreed that we would be each other's primaries and always come first. That this will not change our love for each other.

Is that the same agreement she had with her previous husband?

 

[Halcyeus]

So, she didn't get a time to be single between her last marriage and another, serious long-term style relationship with you. Hmmm. That's not ideal in most cases. Can take time to find yourself again after a major relationship breaks up. Could her realization about wanting polyamory be a redirected emotional need to experience some independence? A mental breakdown is also likely to bring up desires and different perspectives that, while strong in the present moment, can return to something more familiar once the crisis settles down. That might be an element to this.

As difficult as it is there isn't much you can do that you're not already doing; being patient and confronting your fears as best you can. Your doubts aren't unreasonable. You're making a leap of faith.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Syncert,

It is hard to predict the future of your relationship, it is hard to predict how you will feel about polyamory. Right now you feel pretty awful about it (despite your courageous effort to accept it). Maybe in time you will feel better, but that's not guaranteed. I guess my suggestion is, go ahead and be poly with her for now, but go slowly and cautiously, and repeatedly ask yourself if this is what you really want. Some people do better with monogamy, it depends somewhat on "how monogamous" they are, but it may be caused by conditioning as well.

Keep us posted if you're willing; we'll try to give more advice.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Al99]

I do know that these sort of relationships get easier, and we have been 100% honest with each other at every step down this road. My doubts about all of this are really strong right now and I'm not entirely sure if poly is what I want. On the other hand I've never experienced this kind of relationship before and I feel that fear of the unknown could ruin what is in a lot of ways a good relationship despite some flaws.

As I mentioned on your post in the Intro section, my wife asked me to open up our marriage so she could explore her resurgent feelings about an old college bf - essentially become a poly marriage. See my signature link below for the details - but I also struggled with this a great deal. And I cannot honestly say that it has ever become my first choice (although we are only a few months into it, to be fair) - but I have found a great deal of acceptance at least - and it doesn't torment me every day.

Probably the biggest thing I have done is to make it a point to learn about poly - I've read a couple of the recommended books and have a couple more on my Kindle to work on. (nice thing about e-readers - people don't know what you are reading!) I've also read a number of articles on the Net as well - check out the "More than Two" website for sure. And I've listened to an number poly podcasts - both on YouTube and on the Poly Weekly website (500 archived podcasts spanning a dozen years). And I've participated in this Forum as well - there are right at 240K archived posts - you can use the search function to look up particular issues and get years of advice.

I have found that learning about poly and the theory behind it has helped in understanding where Becky is coming from - as well as helping me understand that much of my resistance is cultural conditioning, which has already begun to diminish somewhat.

Hope this perhaps helps a bit.

Best,

Al

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you struggle.

FWIW? Here's what pops out at me in your posts.

I met her and started spending time with her she was married in a monogamous relationship. We since got into a monogamous relationship and got engaged.

Could you be willing to clarify the time line please?

• When was she married? Were they separated? Or was this cheating on her husband with you?
• How much space was there between the divorce being final and your engagement? Are you guys moving into marriage too fast?

We've discussed limits and agreed that we would be each other's primaries and always come first. That this will not change our love for each other.

I don't think those are realistic agreements if they don't also include "How/when do we renegotiate?" in there somewhere. Because over time people's feelings can change. Or even their desire to practice a certain model can change. What if later down the road, one of you wants to change to "co-primaries" instead? Or Close because the poly experiment was a mess? Then what?

I would prefer to see you value "my health and well being comes first" rather than value "practicing primary-secondary model comes first."

I feel like I'm going through a loss of everything I wanted, although we've come to all of these agreements I never wanted to be polyamorous.

You ARE going through a loss. You had certain ideas about the future, and now they are up in the air. She left her ex, and then got serious and engaged to you. You envisioned marriage and a monogamous model.

Then all of a sudden -- she wants poly? Good that it came up BEFORE marriage, but that's a pretty big thing. In some cases, it's a deal breaker.

If you do not want to practice polyamory...why did you make agreements to practice it? How is that you looking out for your long term health and well being?

I broke up with her a week after we came to the agreement because I felt I couldn't handle it and wouldn't be able to watch her with other people and not be hurt. I still feel hurt in some ways and the time isn't even divided yet. I'm trying it out because I love her very much and have faith in that love she has.

Sounds like you had good reasons to stop dating. Why did you get back together?

You are not able to love her as a friend and continue the good relationship that way? Accept you want to practice monogamy in your romances and she does not? Be willing to change the relationship shape you practice together from "dating partners" to something more doable like "friendship?"

Why put yourself through something you don't really want (polyamory) or bend yourself into pretzels to remain her incompatible dating partner?

Agreeing to poly didn't make you any more compatible if what you want at heart is a monogamous marriage. Is that what you want at heart?

I realize that I could be monogamous and not see other people, but I also feel if I don't then I'm going to be stuck out and silently resentful that she's seeing someone else.

If you are are monogamous, to me that means you want to practice a 1:1 relationship. You want to love 1 sweetie, and want to be in a 2 people network max. That's it.

When you are choose to participate in a poly network of more than 2 people that you really don't want to be in to begin with? Being able to date other people (whether you actually do date or not) doesn't make up for the fact that you are participating in something you don't want to begin with. You are still going to feel grumpy about going against your own grain. And yes. You might grow resentful. Of yourself for putting yourself in this spot, and of your partner for not noticing that you are hurting yourself this way.

There can be people who want to love only one sweetie, and enjoy being in a poly network of more than 2 people. Are you one of those people? You may have to do some soul searching.

I could be wrong... but from the sound of it so far? You don't sound like you really want poly.

I do know that these sort of relationships get easier, and we have been 100% honest with each other at every step down this road. My doubts about all of this are really strong right now and I'm not entirely sure if poly is what I want. On the other hand I've never experienced this kind of relationship before and I feel that fear of the unknown could ruin what is in a lot of ways a good relationship despite some flaws.

Again... you have to do some soul searching.

Because there's "relationship flaws that could be overcome" and then there's "foundational incompatibilities that cannot be overcome."

If you want a 2 people network max (you + her) and that it?

And she wants a larger network than that?

That's not something you can "fix" or compromise on.

If you want to keep going to try it on and see how it feels? Give it a set time limit. And if you still aren't feeling good about it? Bow out at that point in time. Def do not live together or get married until this is sorted.

Galagirl

 

[WhatHappened]

it doesn't torment me every day.

High accolades. OP, is this what you aspire to...something that 'doesn't torment you every day?' Or would you hope for more from the central relationship in your life?

.... (nice thing about e-readers - people don't know what you are reading!) ....

I truly do not mean to pick on Al, who seems to me like a nice guy dealing with a hard situation...but, OP, is this what you want from life, to want people to not know what you're reading? Keep in mind, this goes further, to the question of how open you're going to be about the fact that your girlfriend is sleeping with other men...or your own potential future girlfriends. If you don't even want people knowing you're reading about poly, are these future potential GFs you may have going to be expected to settle for being the dirty little secret? Consider how that might make them feel.

Are they ever going to be treated like real girlfriends who get introduced to the family or will they just be kept a secret? I can tell you, most women eventually (if not immediately) don't appreciate being treated like that.

I have found that learning about poly and the theory behind it has helped in understanding where Becky is coming from - as well as helping me understand that much of my resistance is cultural conditioning....

Theory is very often different from practice. Just saying. And cultural conditioning...we talk about that a lot here, but some of these emotions are so universal that I think it's a bit hasty to brush it off as 'cultural conditioning' and ignore the possibility that it might be human nature, and in fact natural, to feel many of these things.

OP--

She cheated on her husband with you. There's a saying: If they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you.

You talk about how honest you two are with each other--but don't you think her husband might have believed he had honesty with her, too? What is so special or different about you that now she's decided to be honest with the man in her life?

So she decided a month ago she wants to be poly with no one in mind. Yet she immediately signed up on a dating site and already she has a date for the symphony tonight. And yet you're telling yourself 'nothing is going to happen past a friendly outing.' They met on a dating site, unless I'm missing something. Forgive my skepticism, but most men are not on dating sites to find a completely platonic semi-permanent symphony guest.

I would also suggest you very strongly think how this eventually feels to the women you expect to be dating. She will always be first as per your agreement with her.


By default, by definition, this means that you must be upfront with any woman you date and tell her she will always be second. Her relationship and life with you will be determined by your girlfriend--by definition, if your girlfriend is always first.

Do you think this is a good, kind, or fair expectation for a girlfriend? To know that she is, from the start, always going to be second to someone else?

How do you see such a relationship going? One year in? Two years in when she realizes that she is still at the whims of however your girlfriend feels about her, about you dating, about life, about anything?

You have been very clear you're not crazy about the idea of a poly relationship. I strongly suggest you not be in one, given your reservations. Yes, it hurts to cut the bonds, but I think you're looking at pain one way or another--either some pain now, or greater pain down the road, and possibly exponentially greater pain as you bring other people into this and play with their hearts and emotions.

As a last thought: this is a woman who has already shown herself willing to cheat on a man she made promises to. Just be aware of that.

 

[Al99]

Hi Syncert et al,

I left for vacation just about the time the preceding reply was posted and am just now having a chance to reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al99 View Post
it doesn't torment me every day.

High accolades. OP, is this what you aspire to...something that 'doesn't torment you every day?' Or would you hope for more from the central relationship in your life?

Not to be a sore sport - but the quote was taken out of context because what I actually wrote was:

but I have found a great deal of acceptance at least - and it doesn't torment me every day.

So - the smiley face was meant to indicate a bit of humor at the part about how "it doesn't torment me everyday" (when, in fact, I have come to a great deal of acceptance for a situation which - like the OP - was not something that I cared for very much). Although - the idea of "not being tormented everyday" is not something to be dismissed so quickly. Much like recovery from an affair in a mono marriage, it a good first step for the mono partner who is asked to take the marriage poly when (since the OP and I are both male, I will use that gender - obviously it could apply to either) all his hopes and dreams are vested in a happy mono marriage (nothing wrong with that either. This is a poly forum so the bias will be there, but in the 4 poly books that I have read so far, the authors all acknowledge that poly is not inherently superior to mono - different strokes).

Of course, once we move past the "daily torment" stage (which for the mono partner, can be similar to the daily pain experienced by those recovering from an affair in a mono marriage - as the result is the same in one sense - the invalidation of the marriage vow of mono-fidelity) - it can get better. If nothing else, acceptance and happiness for the partner (where I am at) can be achieved - and eventually one may even come to embrace poly for themselves - and while this is not necessarily a "move up", it does seem that it would be easier if both partners accepted poly as their chosen lifestyle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al99 View Post
.... (nice thing about e-readers - people don't know what you are reading!)

....
I truly do not mean to pick on Al, who seems to me like a nice guy dealing with a hard situation...but, OP, is this what you want from life, to want people to not know what you're reading?

No offense taken - lol.... However, some folks who move to poly may need to keep it private for any number of valid reasons - career issues, custody issues, family alienation, social alienation (depending on the circumstance), etc. So, it may work for some to be reading "The Ethical Slut" at the local coffee shop where your friends hang out - perhaps not for others.

I was once reading "Naked Lunch" by William S. Burroughs (a classic American novel from the Beatnik - "stream of consciousness" era) in the waiting room of a local car wash when a woman walked up to me and chewed me out for "reading porn" in view of her small children! It did no good to try to explain..... So, I will stick with the value of e-readers - even though I do still appreciate the feel of a real book in my hand.

OP wrote -

I feel like I'm going through a loss of everything I wanted, although we've come to all of these agreements I never wanted to be polyamorous..... I'm trying it out because I love her very much and have faith in that love she has.

Exactly the issue for the partner invested in a mono marriage when the other partner wants to go poly - the conundrum. Because - as is too often and too quickly suggested on this forum - splitting up over it may not be the best answer. It may be that the couple loves each other too much to do that no matter what the decision is in regard to poly is (such was our case) - or there may be children involved and splitting up over a decision to go poly - no matter what the decision - is not an option (again, such was our case).

Ultimately, one partner will have to give in if both agree that the marriage / family cannot be sacrificed. So, she may decide to forego the desire to go poly - although it means a lack of fulfillment in that area, or he may decide to accept a poly marriage - even though, for him, it represents the loss of "everything he wanted" - aspirations, hopes and dreams. Who gives in will obviously vary by marriage - one might think that in a stalemate, status quo of observing the original marriage vows might carry.... who is to say. In my case - and the OP's - the husband accepted the wife's desire to go poly. And with that decision, the sense of loss the OP referred to.

Fortunately, this can be overcome - first by being happy for your partner - which is what carried me through in the beginning, even though there is still a sense of loss conflicting with the happiness for your partner. Later, with effort, acceptance can replace the sense of loss (getting there). And, as time goes along and if all goes well, we may even come to appreciate the outcome.

Just a few thoughts on the topic...

Best to All,

Al