Guilt About Overnights

K

KC43

New member
Back when Hubby and I started the open marriage thing, we made an agreement that we would never spend the night with another partner, but about three months after I started seeing S2 last year, Hubby consented to me spending two nights a month at S2's. That lasted until June, when S2 "downgraded" us; the only nights I spent with him after that were one weekend in July when we'd planned a camping trip that was set up before the downgrade. Then overnights were a nonissue for several months, but Hubby and I established that me having overnights with future partners was acceptable.

Now that Woody and I have transitioned from friendship to...whatever we have that involves sex, Woody has expressed a preference to have me spend nights with him sometimes. Partly because sex with him tends to last hours (which is awesome), and partly because he finds it far easier to sleep with someone beside him, which was something he hadn't had since his wife passed away last spring. With Woody's consent, I told Hubby what it means to Woody to have me stay over, so Hubby's even more okay with it. So that isn't the problem.

The problem, primarily, is Country--and me having massive Mom-guilt. The nights I spent with S2 were almost always when Country was with her dad (my ex) for the weekend. I spent a couple of weeknights with him last winter because of car problems, which Country accepted, and a couple of weekends with him when she *should* have been at her dad's but hadn't gone because of stuff with school or friends. But S2 and I had a schedule--in large part because it's important to Country to have predictability. She knew I stayed overnight with S2 on the weekends she was slated to be at her dad's, even if she didn't go, and she knew I saw him every Tuesday night; the car problem overnights were on Tuesdays.

With Woody, predictability isn't always a thing. He usually does Tuesday and Friday movie nights at his place. I've told Hubby and the kids that I will be going to those, and that on Fridays I will be staying over. They're okay with that. The problem comes with weeks like this. Woody can't do Friday night because one of the bands he manages has a gig. He might not be able to do tomorrow night because of a movie he's in as an extra, which might need him for filming tomorrow. So he asked if he could see me tonight--and if I could stay over.

Just seeing him tonight shouldn't be much of an issue, even though it wasn't planned in advance. Country can deal with me going out unplanned once in a while. The problem is the staying over part. Last week, I stayed with him Thursday instead of Friday because he had plans with his long-term girlfriend for Friday, but I knew about that a couple of days in advance and so was able to talk to Country about it beforehand. Today, I won't be able to tell her anything until she gets home from school, only a couple of hours before I would be leaving to see Woody. I feel guilty about that, and I feel guilty because even though I'm not sure it matters to Country, I like to be around when she leaves for school in the morning just so I can tell her to have a good day.

I know that the "right" thing in tonight's case would be to tell Woody I can't stay because there wasn't enough advance warning for Country. Whether I stay tonight or not, I am going to let him know that in future, I can't stay over when Country's home unless I have at least a day's notice. But for tonight, I'm torn--and I feel guilty about being torn, too. If Country were younger, it would be a no-brainer, but we're talking about a 17-year-old Honors student. She's nearly an adult, she's mostly mature, and she's intelligent. And she knows Woody and I are seeing each other and that it's a romantic thing. I think--and have been told by more than one person--that I give her too much control over what I do in the name of trying to be a "good mom." I care a lot about Woody, I enjoy staying over with him, and I feel guilty if I say no to him because I know what it means to him to have me stay. There wouldn't be any pressure from him; he's made it clear from the first time I stayed over that he doesn't want to take any time away from my family. But I feel like if he asks, I want to try to stay, and I would rather not turn him down solely because "Country might not like it."

So I'm not quite sure what to do about tonight...or about future weeknight overnights, because I know that due to Woody's schedule, this won't be the last time this situation comes up.
 
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You just need to weigh just how much predictability Country actually still needs, at her age. And whether you'd rather be there to wish her a good day in the morning, or would rather be sleeping with new hot lover, once in a while, sometimes more spontaneously, sometimes with a few days advance planning.

Is she going to be away at college next year? Would it actually be good for her to not have mom there once in a while on a weekday night or morning?
 
Have you talked to her about it? How does she feel when you're not there to see her off in the morning? How does she feel when you don't give her advanced notice that you're not going to be there for the night?

Seems to me this is more of an issue of transitioning from being the mother of a child to being the mother of an adult. I don't know how far off she is from being 18 but when she is will your guilt cease? Or is it the time she graduates that your guilt will cease?
 
WhatToDo, the only time previously that she hasn't had advance notice about an overnight was one of the car-problem nights last winter. She wasn't happy about that but accepted it because she understood I didn't have any way to get home (the car broke down on the way to S2's). When I've asked her about me being around in the mornings, she just shrugs. The only time she's given me a verbal answer was "It matters to you because your mother didn't get you up for school even when you were little" and didn't give me any indication of whether it matters to *her*.

She'll be turning 18 *after* she graduates, but the guilt probably won't end until she leaves for college.

Magdlyn, the predictability thing isn't so much age-based as because she has Asperger's, which isn't something she's going to outgrow. She understands that things in the "real world" won't always be predictable, but in my mind, home is supposed to be a place where she feels comfortable and safe. And I still sometimes struggle with reminding myself that it's okay for me to even *have* other lovers while I still have kids living at home, let alone spend the night with one and thereby leave my kid home to fend for herself overnight and in the morning. (She won't be entirely alone. Hubby will be here. But she doesn't get along with him, and he won't get up to make sure she leaves for school on time. I've asked him to in the past.)

I just talked to Hubby about it. He said he thinks I should stay with Woody tonight, but then he said that on Friday morning, when I wasn't home, Country was almost late to school because she didn't wake up until five minutes before she usually leaves. And that was *with* her knowing in advance that I wouldn't be there, and *with* me having reminded her before I left that she needed to set her alarm because I wouldn't be around to wake her in the morning. Which makes me feel more guilty; if I'd been here, I would have been able to make sure she got up on time. And yes, I know that next year she'll be away at college and won't have me to wake her... but it isn't next year yet.
 
:)

Something I might be able to actually help with, ha. As a mom you're always going to feel guilty no matter what. I don't know how your relationship is with your daughter, but for the most part I remember being 17 and while I loved my mom dearly I really didn't want to know much about her love life nor did it ultimately matter much if she was home. All I really needed to know was vaguely where she was and if she expected to be home. Your best bet is really to have a talk with her and see what she is comfortable with as far as knowing in advance goes. Either way, good luck.

Tink
 
Yes, I know she has Asperger's syndrome. But even Aspies do adapt to changes in their lives. I guess I was thinking a little change at home to get used to, will help her prepare for the huge changes inherent in going to college.

And a 17 year old should be able to set an alarm, shower, dress, grab some food, find her backpack and get to school without a parents' help. I'd think even a person on the spectrum, if it isn't too profound, should be able to do this, and if she is late, it will be a consequence she can learn from.

But that is just my perspective. You know her best. Talk to her.
 
I'm guessing you coming home before she leaves in the morning isn't an option? What about calling or texting her to ensure she's awake? My son is similar (almost 18, senior in HS, adjustment disorder, etc.) On a rare occasion, I will leave him overnight on the weekend to go out of town with Blue. My family checks in on him, as does a family friend. The first time, I had tremendous guilt. I called him several times...until he got annoyed and told me to stop calling because he was fine and would let me know if he wasn't, lol. I still feel guilty, but it happens so infrequently and he will be away at college in less than a year. Now, I think of it as good practice for him to make good decisions on his own. He enjoys having the house to himself. In my experience, the majority of the time, when I'm feeling mama guilt, my kids aren't feeling like I'm abandoning them, I'm a bad mother, or any of the myriad of other things I'm thinking. I'd bet it's the same for you, too. (FWIW, this kid is my kid that relies the MOST on me to do things for him. The other two are much more self sufficient.)
 
Talking to her would be the logical thing, though past attempts usually haven't yielded any results. She won't give me her perspective, she just shrugs and tells me I'm the parent, so I should figure it out. She has said she doesn't want to know what's going on in my life, only how it impacts her.

Magdlyn, she does need to get used to the unexpected happening, which is why I'm not questioning going out tonight at all, only whether spending the night is a good idea. I think that's at least partly because this would be the second school morning out of the last three that I wouldn't be here. If it had been longer since last time I'm not sure I would be questioning it as much.

PinkPig, no, I wouldn't be able to get home that early. I mean, I could if I tried, but I would have to leave Woody's at five in the morning after probably not getting to sleep until well past midnight, so it's possible but not really feasible. Texting or calling her would only annoy her if I interrupted her getting ready. But she won't be home alone. Hubby and Alt will both be here. They just aren't usually up that early. I really appreciate your perspective on this.
 
I was reading this and thinking, what's the big deal, then I read about the Aspergers and... Oh. Light bulb. My boyfriends daughter is autistic, I work with a lot of special needs kids, I get that sudden changes in schedule are a big deal. No matter how smart, together, or well adjusted the kid, disruptions to the routine are a sticking point for a lot of kids (and adults) with Aspergers and autism.

I'm not a mom, and I don't know your daughter, so I'm not even going to guess at what you should do tonight. I will say that if you go, your daughter will be fine. Even if she doesn't get up on time and has a stressful morning and is still in a bad mood when you see her tomorrow, in the long run, she will be fine. One bad day doesn't set back 17 years of good parenting. And on the flip side, if you miss one overnight with Woody, you will be sad and he will be sad and, you guessed it, you will both still be ok.

Going forward, if predictability is not Woody's thing, maybe you can slowly tweak her morning routine so it doesn't require you to be there in person. She'll need to make those adjustments soonish anyway, this is just a nice head start, which is good in a lot of ways. Maybe you text or video chat in the mornings at predetermined times as she gets ready, whether you're one room away or in another zip code. If you make breakfast, start setting out the ingredients and letting her assemble it, a system that you can do your part of the night before if necessary. If you're reminding her to get her things together, make a checklist the two of you can do together, and she can eventually do on her own.

Its tough trying to balance everyone's needs. Be glad Woody understands that :) and let him know that while it might take time, you're working on solutions so you can have the occasional spontaneous overnight without any stress.
 
So when I told Country I might be spending the night at Woody's but didn't want her to be upset, she said, "I'm seventeen. I'm not four. I don't depend on you for clothes and sustenance. I can take care of myself if my mother is gone overnight." She said it in a very tongue in cheek tone, and then she, Alt, and Hubby all told me to "leave already."
 
LOL. Reminds me of me at that age. I didn't give a crap what my parents did as long as it didn't interfere with my plans.
 
Yeah. The thing with Country is that even as recently as six months ago, she was all about the "You're the parent, act like it" thing. She didn't necessarily care whether I was around or not, but in her mind, parents were *supposed to* always be home at night, so that was what I was "supposed to" do, and she got confrontational when I didn't. In her case, it's partly years of hearing her father complain about what a crappy parent I am, partly a control thing (she goes overboard trying to control her environment so she can be comfortable), and partly a case of very black-and-white thinking.

Apparently she's gotten past a lot of that in the months since me spending nights with S2 was a thing, which I'm glad of.

I talked with Woody a bit last night, and followed up this morning (since last night's discussion was interrupted by the fact that we were both naked...). I told him having some kind of schedule might be helpful, because of my discomfort and guilt with last night being a spur of the moment thing, and he immediately said he would do whatever made things easiest for me.

We agreed that every Tuesday night will be a definite night we'll spend together. Tuesdays are "scary movie night" at his place, and he says those are far more likely to happen than the Friday "generic movie night", because Fridays are often interrupted by traveling, or one of his other partners unexpectedly having free time, or other events like this coming weekend. I'm a bit amused since Tuesdays were the one every-week night I had with S2 as well...

Woody and I will have 1-2 additional nights together every week, but those will change from week to week depending on his schedule and once in a while probably on Country's school events or whatever. And of course holidays.

I like the plan of having one definite night and one or two to-be-determined nights, because that way I don't feel like I'm completely locking him into anything, but my comfort is being addressed. His preference for spontaneity is being met, as is his need to schedule around his acting jobs, managing his bands, social events, and time with his other partners, while my need to know what's going to happen and to inform my family of what's going to happen is being met, along with my preference to have something concrete to focus on if I'm having a rough mental-health week, and my dislike of constantly asking "When can I see you again."
 
That all sounds good, great! Try to focus on those positives instead of second guessing yourself and letting your low self esteem script get in the way of your pleasure!
 
I am trying VERY hard. In the immortal words of Wil Wheaton (a/k/a Wesley Crusher from Star Trek The Next Generation): "Depression is a dick." Especially when the "depression demon" is fed by all the negative statements and treatment from others in my past, and in a couple of cases in my present.
 
Glad you were able to work things out, KC. It sounds like Country is ready to exercise some independence.
 
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