Half-Open Relationship

[Marcus]

2. Controlling others actions to manage your insecurities is generally not a good idea.

3. Jealousy is either a phobic response, or it is a warning that something is wrong with the relationship. Only you can determine which it is. If it is phobic, then you must decide if you want fear to control your relationship. If you were afraid of flying, would you make your SO always take the bus?

BigGuy, I read through this whole host of responses to the issue at hand (well, I did skip past a couple of posts) and this very brief synopsis addressed the situation perfectly. The idea that people should restrict their behavior or take actions in service to someone's insecurity is just instating a terrible rule, instead of addressing the actual problem. Our partners should not have to bear the cost of our shortcomings.

 

[Dagferi]

Dirtclustit, I would be happy to respond to your questions if you could get to the point, instead of wandering all over the map, so to speak. The over-wording of your posts is not having the effect/impression you are hoping to make. It makes you come across like a homeless person on a street corner shouting nonsense.

 

[Cloudy]

Well, after reading so many posts, books, and articles over the last couple weeks that my head hurts and my eyes are bugging out, I've decided to take a step back from the poly table.

My GF and I still hope this is something we can revisit at a later time, but too many things I read, especially in some of the linked articles in this thread, resonated with me, and in a bad way.

It seems that poly is and is not many things I thought it wasn't and is, if that makes sense. I still maintain that the message could have been conveyed in a less sarcastic and condescending manner, but I still appreciate those who took the time to read and chime in.

I just have one parting question: in most monogamous relationships, rules and jealousy are the norm, in a way. That is, there is usually a mindset that, if one person cheats, it will cause intense jealousy in the other person, and will probably cause the end of the relationship. There is, therefore, a spoken or unspoken rule to remain faithful. However, I get the impression, from most of the responses in this thread, that rules and jealousy are always bad things. How do you reconcile this view with monogamy? Do monogamists "have it wrong"?

But for now, I'm going to go do some serious thinking and soul searching. Till next time...

 

[YouAreHere]

I get the impression, from most of the responses in this thread, that rules and jealousy are always bad things. How do you reconcile this view with monogamy? Do monogamists "have it wrong"?

But for now, I'm going to go do some serious thinking and soul searching. Till next time...

As a mono person in a mono/poly relationship, I'll take a stab at this from my POV. I find that my jealousy tends to be related to my own insecurities in my relationship. In a monogamous relationship, you don't have nearly as many opportunities to examine this. Most things that are "against the rules" in a mono relationship would be things that would trigger jealousy. It's not that they have it wrong, but the structure of the relationship usually avoids the triggers, as long as the structure is adhered to.

Sometimes, in a mono relationship, you still have jealousy/envy issues (not necessarily affair-type stuff, but more "I wish you spent more time at home rather than out with your friends" type of stuff), but there doesn't seem to be much motivation to work through them, as much as there is in a poly relationship. In polyamory, you acknowledge that there can be other people who are just as important to your partner as you are, and you need to work through your feelings while keeping that in mind. You can't be "THE most important thing" in your partner's life, and you can't take that status for granted.

To a mono, that can be scary as hell, and really difficult to navigate at first, so rules are developed to help them feel more secure.

Whether or not that's a permanent or temporary thing tends to be personal, and within the context of the relationship. Some folks are good with rules that preserve the status of the primary couple, while some want a more egalitarian model.

So, short of the long, for some people, rules are wrong, but for many folks who've arrived in a poly relationship kicking and screaming, having rules is the only way they can do it. Jealousy is an emotion, usually (for me) brought about by insecurity, and a poly relationship is a really good mechanism for triggering those insecurities. Mono relationships don't necessarily "have it wrong," but they tend to be structured in a way that avoids jealousy, by having a lot of rules (written and unwritten).

Clear as mud?

 

[AnnabelMore]

Well, after reading so many posts, books, and articles over the last couple weeks that my head hurts and my eyes are bugging out, I've decided to take a step back from the poly table. My GF and I still hope this is something we can revisit at a later time, but too many things I read, especially in some of the linked articles in this thread, resonated with me, and in a bad way. It seems that poly is and is not many things I thought it wasn't and is. I still maintain that the message could have been conveyed in a less sarcastic and condescending manner... I appreciate those who took the time to read and chime in.

In most monogamous relationships, rules and jealousy are the norm, in a way. That is, there is usually a mindset that, if one person cheats, it will cause intense jealousy in the other person, and will probably cause the end of the relationship. There is, therefore, a spoken or unspoken rule to remain faithful. However, I get the impression, from most of the responses in this thread, that rules and jealousy are always bad things. How do you reconcile this view with monogamy? Do monogamists "have it wrong"?

I just want to say I respect you for listening, even when it wasn't easy, and for thinking hard about things before proceeding. I hope you two can find the right place for you, whether it's in monogamy or polyamory.

Interesting question!

I would say "yes and no." If you're a jealous person, I think it's good to examine that.
Where is it coming from?
Is it just a pre-programmed response from society telling you that you should feel this way?
Or that you will lose your partner if you don't?
Is it a matter of insecurity?

If any of those things are true, maybe you'd be better off without it. Maybe it's something you can learn to discard/overcome.

On the other hand, some people are just naturally jealous and aren't capable of shedding it so easily, or at all. As long as it doesn't get to the level of being controlling and crazy, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. If you're one of those people, you probably shouldn't do poly for reasons that are obvious enough that I assume I don't have to go into it. But it is, in fact, okay to be who you are.

Same deal for rules, basically. Do you have them because society says you should, or because you're too insecure in your relationship to loosen up on them? Or do they serve a function that makes you both happier and/or makes your relationship workable? Rules can be good, or at least a neutral thing, as long as they're not controlling or crazy. But, again, if you find that having a lot of rules works best for you, poly may not be your best bet, primarily due to the fact that involving more people in your lives means you're creating new dynamics where those rules might not be functional.

In other words, jealousy and rules are generally a bad thing in the context of polyamory, which is why you're seeing that attitude here in this discussion on a polyamory forum. But not everyone needs to live in a polyamorous context to be happy, and there is nothing wrong with that. Some would disagree, but I really shake my head at the people who think that everyone has to live the same way they do, whether they're coming at it from a monoamorous perspective or a polyamorous one. The important thing is just to examine the life you're living, be aware that there are options, and consciously choose the one that's best for you.

 

[Cloudy]

YouAreHere and AnnabelMore: Many thanks to both of you. Both responses made good sense and helped me to further wrap my head around all this. So much for my n00b brain to take in!

 

[GalaGirl]

OK, this is my POV.

In most monogamous relationships, rules and jealousy are the norm, in a way.

I think in all relationship shapes, there are agreements between the partners. At the very minimum, they agree to be in relationship and associate with each other at all.

I think in all relationship shapes, situations come up that can trigger jealousy. It's only an emotion after all -- like fear, happiness, sadness, anger, excitement, etc.

That is, there is usually a mindset that, if one person cheats, it will cause intense jealousy in the other person, and will probably cause the end of the relationship.

If my spouse cheated and broke agreements without notice, rather than just coming to me up front to renegotiate agreements, I would be angry he lied, and put my sex health at risk (because we are fluid bonded). It's a violation of trust. There would have to be a taking of accounts and reconciling. And yes, I could choose to exercise my option to no longer participate, and leave.

I'd be fine if he just told me the agreements could no longer be kept because he wanted a change. We'd talk it out. Agreements to "check in first" are upheld. Trust is still maintained. We now have sex with condoms and other barriers, and start doing sex labs again. I can be safe in my body health and he can enjoy his new honey. Or we might choose to break up, cleanly, before starting something new elsewhere. Either is preferable to lying, to me.

There is, therefore, a spoken or unspoken rule to remain faithful. However, I get the impression, from most of the responses in this thread, that rules and jealousy are always bad things. How do you reconcile this view with monogamy? Do monogamists "have it wrong"?

Jealousy is an emotion. It is not a "bad thing." It may not be one of the "fun" emotions to feel, but it's just an emotion. Let it blow on through and do its job.

I think it is how people process jealousy that could be categorized as "well-handled" or "not well-handled." Your senses are there to give you information about the world around you. You smell burning, you go check it out. Maybe the toast burned in the toaster. You see it is raining. You get an umbrella before you leave the house. You feel hurt when I punched you in the nose. You tell me to cut it out, get ice, punch back, or all the above.

You feel jealousy. Some need is going unmet. You respond to the sense alerting you, and figure out what that is about and solve the problem.

The people in the polyamorous relationship have the freedom to co-create their agreements however it is they want between them. Lots or few.

Neither approach is "good" or "bad." The approach just has to serve the needs of the people actually in the relationships/network to get along well and harmoniously as compatible players.

My GF and I still hope this is something we can revisit at a later time, but too many things I read, especially in some of the linked articles in this thread, resonated with me, and in a bad way.

Good for you both in deciding to take time to better think on things. I mean that.

Taking a step back to better talk out how you guys want to do poly together, so you can do it well, in a healthy way together, is a good thing. Sort yourselves out, grow and develop whatever personal skills you need to, in order to prepare better, become secure in yourselves, define your boundaries and agreements and expectations. You will have grown closer for having shared the experience and will have grown stronger in your intrapersonal and interpersonal relationship-management skills. You will both benefit from that in yourselves and with each other, even if there never are any other poly partners.

GL,
Galagirl

 

[BoringGuy]

YouAreHere and AnnabelMore, many thanks to both of you. Your responses made good sense and helped me to further wrap my head around all this. So much for my n00b brain to take in!

I think this is the first time someone reacted to the "unicorn-hunter bashing" in a way that the advice was not all for nothing. If one person can be receptive, so can others, and it gives me hope that the OP may one day realize their dream of a FFM triad that has realistic expectations and satisfies all three people.

It would be groovy if you stayed on the forum, and if your girlfriend joined too.

 

[Dagferi]

Hey, we all start somewhere.

Cloudy, please stay around. I wish more people were open to advice.

 

[AnnabelMore]

I think this is the first time someone reacted to the "unicorn-hunter bashing" in a way that the advice was not all for nothing.

I can't think of a specific example, but I'm pretty sure there have been a couple of other times. Also, I think a lot of times people can't hear advice they don't like right away, but may be able to assimilate it later (in some cases probably even thinking it was their own idea), perhaps after they're no longer posting.

 

[BoringGuy]

I'm pretty sure there have been a couple of other times. Also, I think a lot of times people can't hear advice they don't like right away, but may be able to assimilate it later (in some cases probably even thinking it was their own idea), perhaps after they're no longer posting.

I'm sure there have been others, but this is the first one I've noticed.